Our First Scrappage Deal Done

Saab Ed

One of the lads did our first scrappage deal today and its a bit of a shame. Okay so its only a 2000 Rover 25 getting scrapped but its a 1 owner 44,000mile car with NCT and tax till the middle of next year. Sure its not worth much but there sure as hell was plenty of life left in it for someone. Shame IMO.

TestTransmission

What they buy?

kindalen

what are the actual rules? how long do you have to own car? does it have to be taxed?

no1beemerfan

I've an auto express article on the classics that were getting destroyed in the UK because of the scrappage scheme. I know it gets cars off the road that shouldn't be on it but its a shame to see good cars and especially rarer "classics" being "put down" too.

Anan1

AFAIK you have to own it 18 months and it has to have been taxed for twelve of those.

Interceptor

Saab Ed wrote: »

a 2000 Rover 25 getting scrapped but its a 1 owner 44,000mile car with NCT and tax till the middle of next year.

It is a shame - its got to be worth at least €75.

'cpty

Anan1

Saab Ed wrote: »

One of the lads did our first scrappage deal today and its a bit of a shame. Okay so its only a 2000 Rover 25 getting scrapped but its a 1 owner 44,000mile car with NCT and tax till the middle of next year. Sure its not worth much but there sure as hell was plenty of life left in it for someone. Shame IMO.

That's exactly why I was against the scheme - it's actually anti-environment IMO.

Rylan

Hope it was reg'ed in early january 2000 as the car has to be ten years old to qualify for scrappage.

Also - It must have been reg in Ireland in name of purchaser for 18mths previous.

- must have a valid NCT, or expired no more than 90 days before scrapping or been presented and failed NCT in the previous 6 mths.

- Must have been insured for use on the road fot at least 12mths in the 18mths prior to scrapping.

daveharnett

Saab Ed wrote: »

One of the lads did our first scrappage deal today and its a bit of a shame. Okay so its only a 2000 Rover 25 getting scrapped but its a 1 owner 44,000mile car with NCT and tax till the middle of next year. Sure its not worth much but there sure as hell was plenty of life left in it for someone. Shame IMO.

Do you have to own the car for a certain amount of time before scrapping it?
If not, could you buy a ball of rust for €100 for the scrappage scheme, and sell your roadworthy car privately?

Edit: nevermind, i see my answer above

Fabritzo

The more Morris Marina's off the road the better

Manuel

I'm surprised a Rover 25 lasted this long. The World is better off without it, let alone your customer.

I'm not bitter though .........

alias no.9

jackncoke wrote: »

What they buy?

Indeed, what did they buy?

niceirishfella

alias no.9 wrote: »

Indeed, what did they buy?

A G-Wizz??:D

bazz26

Dacia Sandero...

mantaraver

Fabritzo wrote: »

The more Morris Marina's off the road the better

Think the Top Gear team's onto that one !! :D

Saab Ed

They bought a new Clio. Good value when you take into account Renaults own scrappage discounts too. Still a shame IMO and a waste. No matter what type of car it is someone still could have got a lot more out of a 10 year old 44,000 mile car.

Rylan

Saab Ed. Have you checked the date of 1st registration. Just in case they want their car in January and the rover was regged in feb/mar/apr/may?

alias no.9

Saab Ed wrote: »

They bought a new Clio. Good value when you take into account Renaults own scrappage discounts too. Still a shame IMO and a waste. No matter what type of car it is someone still could have got a lot more out of a 10 year old 44,000 mile car.

Maybe you can answer the question I posed on another thread then, the Renault scrappage scheme that's been going for a while was listing a €1,500 scrappage allowance and a €1,500 trade in allowance, do you need to land two cars onto their forecourt to avail of this, i.e one scrap and one trade in? (Seems daft if you do) Does the government scheme now mean that you get an additional €1,500 off the price and will get the Clio Royale for €9,490? Seems like very good value if you do.

VolvoMan

I thought the scheme was being treated as a straight deal rather than actually scrapping a car.

What a bloody shame!:(

BrianD3

alias no.9 wrote: »

Maybe you can answer the question I posed on another thread then, the Renault scrappage scheme that's been going for a while was listing a €1,500 scrappage allowance and a €1,500 trade in allowance, do you need to land two cars onto their forecourt to avail of this, i.e one scrap and one trade in? (Seems daft if you do) Does the government scheme now mean that you get an additional €1,500 off the price and will get the Clio Royale for €9,490? Seems like very good value if you do.

The Renault "scrappage" scheme is a straight deal discount that is also a minimum trade in allowance. Obviously you do need a car to get the additional 1500 from the Gov scrappage scheme.

It is a while since I looked at a new Renault but the last time I was, Renault were advertising something like 4500 off the list price of a Laguna. But when I went to a garage I was offered new Lagunas for 8-9k off list. So the dealer was giving a discount on top of the Renault one. If the same applies now then those with a scrap car could get
-gov scrappage
-renault scrappage
-renault trade in allowance
-dealer discount

And get a new Clio for well under 10k or a new Laguna for well under 20k?

Saab Ed

alias no.9 wrote: »

Maybe you can answer the question I posed on another thread then, the Renault scrappage scheme that's been going for a while was listing a €1,500 scrappage allowance and a €1,500 trade in allowance, do you need to land two cars onto their forecourt to avail of this, i.e one scrap and one trade in? (Seems daft if you do) Does the government scheme now mean that you get an additional €1,500 off the price and will get the Clio Royale for €9,490? Seems like very good value if you do.

One car is all you need. Renault will allow €1500 scrappage and €1500 Trade in bonus on any car reged before Feb 2002 and you'll also get the Government Scrappage of €1500 if the car is 10 years or older, and yes it must be 10 years from date of reg and not just in years. ( some other posters have pointed this out, dont worry guys the Rover was reged in january 2000 ) The aboved mentioned price excludes delivery ( €700 ) and Met paint ( €500 ) but its still great value. The new Megane Coupe is the best value IMO. You can buy one from €14,500 ( €4600 allowances from Renault + €1500 Gov ) if your car qualfies under the scrappage rules

niceirishfella

Saab Ed wrote: »

One car is all you need. Renault will allow €1500 scrappage and €1500 Trade in bonus on any car reged before Feb 2002 and you'll also get the Government Scrappage of €1500 if the car is 10 years or older, and yes it must be 10 years from date of reg and not just in years. ( some other posters have pointed this out, dont worry guys the Rover was reged in january 2000 ) The aboved mentioned price excludes delivery ( €700 ) and Met paint ( €500 ) but its still great value. The new Megane Coupe is the best value IMO. You can buy one from €14,500 ( €4600 allowances from Renault + €1500 Gov ) if your car qualfies under the scrappage rules

Hows the Twingo for a deal Ed?? I like the styling of them:P

Saab Ed

BrianD3 wrote: »

The Renault "scrappage" scheme is a straight deal discount that is also a minimum trade in allowance. Obviously you do need a car to get the additional 1500 from the Gov scrappage scheme.

No thats incorrect. With the Renault scheme the dealer retains full Retail on the car. If the proposed trade in is valuable then the dealer has the choice to offer even more discount on the trade in but in doing so only ends up eating into his profit margin. Problem with the Governments Scrappage deal is that the car must be scrapped so the dealer can not allow any more than the scrappage allownace from Renault and the government because he'll have no car left to sell on and recoup the money. Simple.

alias no.9

Saab Ed wrote: »

One car is all you need. Renault will allow €1500 scrappage and €1500 Trade in bonus on any car reged before Feb 2002 and you'll also get the Government Scrappage of €1500 if the car is 10 years or older, and yes it must be 10 years from date of reg and not just in years. ( some other posters have pointed this out, dont worry guys the Rover was reged in january 2000 ) The aboved mentioned price excludes delivery ( €700 ) and Met paint ( €500 ) but its still great value. The new Megane Coupe is the best value IMO. You can buy one from €14,500 ( €4600 allowances from Renault + €1500 Gov ) if your car qualfies under the scrappage rules

That's what I figured but why they didn't just call it €3,000 scrappage in the first place with the extra €1,500 from the government now?

Saab Ed

alias no.9 wrote: »

That's what I figured but why they didn't just call it €3,000 scrappage in the first place with the extra €1,500 from the government now?

Because if the car is not over 8 years old Renault will still give a €1500 trade in bonus plus a €1000 reg bonus.

BrianD3

Saab Ed wrote: »

No thats incorrect. With the Renault scheme the dealer retains full Retail on the car. If the proposed trade in is valuable then the dealer has the choice to offer even more discount on the trade in but in doing so only ends up eating into his profit margin.

I don't understand what you're saying there, are you saying that the discount comes from Renault as opposed to the dealer? If so then I agree. Or are you saying that you need an actual scrap car to get the scrappage discount?

If the latter and I turn up with a 1995 rusty Fiesta to a Renault dealer looking to buy a new Clio I get
1500 (gov)
1500 (renault)
1500 (renault)


But if I turn up looking to do a straight deal I get nothing? That makes no sense.

alias no.9

niceirishfella wrote: »

Hows the Twingo for a deal Ed?? I like the styling of them:P

On the Renault site, the Clio was getting a €3k discount (Renault scrappage and trade in allowance) but the Twingo was just getting a €1.5k discount (Renault scrappage), the smaller the car, the tighter the margin usually. Both now would qualify for the €1,500 from the government.

ytareh

Wow looks like Renault have really stolen a march on its rivals with this deal!

alias no.9

Saab Ed wrote: »

Because if the car is not over 8 years old Renault will still give a €1500 trade in bonus plus a €1000 reg bonus.

So if I have a worthless piece of scrap I can get a €3k discount from Renault but if I have something worth a little more they'll give me €2.5k.

My head hurts. Just tell me how much I can have the frickin' car for .

Rafloution

Saab Ed maybe you can clear something up for me, when renault brought this deal in October 2009 they said they would keep theirs and bring the government deal in too.

However this page doesnt suggest thats the case

http://www.renault.ie/pv_pricelist_index.asp

Could you clarify?

Thanks

VolvoMan

Sure with the current Renault range you'd be trading scrap for scrap anyway.

8080

The former-Rover-driver can claim the unused road tax back :cool:

Rafloution

http://www.renault.ie/default.asp

In fact check the link above the first video that plays mention that they will keep their own scrappage deal if the government bring one in. Looks like they are moving the goalposts.

Saab Ed

BrianD3 wrote: »

I don't understand what you're saying there, are you saying that the discount comes from Renault as opposed to the dealer? If so then I agree. Or are you saying that you need an actual scrap car to get the scrappage discount?

If the latter and I turn up with a 1995 rusty Fiesta to a Renault dealer looking to buy a new Clio I get
1500 (gov)
1500 (renault)
1500 (renault)


But if I turn up looking to do a straight deal I get nothing? That makes no sense.

Okay using the Clio as an example.....

Possible available discounts are as follows:

1) Straight Deal = Dealer discount ( ie how much profit givin away ) + €1000 reg bonus from Renault of which the dealer doesnt have to give back any to the customer.

2) Trading in any car younger than 8 years old = Renault Trade in bonus €1500 + Reg Bonus €1000 ( as above ) + what ever the dealer wants to put into the car.

3) Trading in a car registered first between Jan 31st 2002 and Feb 2000 = Renault Scrappage of €1500 + Renault Trade In bonus €1500 + what ever the dealer wants to put into the car. Important thing here is that the car doesnt have to be scrapped. The car can be re-sold by the dealer which allows the dealer to re-coup any money they might have put into the car over and above the Scrappage/Trade-In allowances and retain profit.

4) Trading in a car that is 10 years or older on the date of buying the new 2010 Renault = Renault Scrappage of €1500 + Renault Trade In bonus €1500 + €1500 Government Scrappage + dealer discount off list price by eating into their profit margin. The car must be scrapped under this scheme.

Our man in Havana

I would assume you are free to scrap the >10 year old car yourself and reclaim the €1500 from the govt?

Saab Ed

Bond-007 wrote: »

I would assume you are free to scrap the >10 year old car yourself and reclaim the €1500 from the govt?

Nah its a VRT rebate. The VRT is paid in full by the dealer at the time of registering the new car. Once the dealer can prove all the criteria that the Revenue require i.e the car was owned by the customer for 18 months etc etc and that they show a certificate of destruction for the scrapped car then the dealer can relcaim €1500 of the VRT; the same amount which has already been passed on to the customer at point of sale. Plus it will only apply to people buying category A and B cars.

Our man in Havana

Now if I don't tell the dealer I have a car for scrappage for my own reasons and pay cash I should be able to reclaim the €1500 myself?

Saab Ed

Bond-007 wrote: »

Now if I don't tell the dealer I have a car for scrappage for my own reasons and pay cash I should be able to reclaim the €1500 myself?

I dont get you ....but anyway only dealers can reclaim the money.

Our man in Havana

but anyway only dealers can reclaim the money

No bother. I get how the scheme works now.

macplaxton

Bond-007 wrote: »

Now if I don't tell the dealer I have a car for scrappage for my own reasons and pay cash I should be able to reclaim the €1500 myself?

That's the impression I get

"I need my old car to look around for the best deal. Do I have to have it scrapped before I buy a new car?

No. You may buy a new car and provided the old car is scrapped within 60 days of the date of registration of your new car you are eligible for the relief."

Source: Revenue.ie Scrappage VRT FAQs.

Nothing there to say the dealer has to do it.

There's another bit about the dealer having paperwork though. Ask the Revenue for clarification as the VRT scrappage form says the claimant must retain paperwork for four years.
I still think it's doable, but you have to front the 1500 yoyos and wait to get it back from the Revenue.

Saab Ed

macplaxton wrote: »

That's the impression I get

"I need my old car to look around for the best deal. Do I have to have it scrapped before I buy a new car?

No. You may buy a new car and provided the old car is scrapped within 60 days of the date of registration of your new car you are eligible for the relief."

Source: Revenue.ie Scrappage VRT FAQs.

Nothing there to say the dealer has to do it.

...or ask the Revenue.

I stand corrected. It had been described to me earlier in the day that only dealers could do this but it seems you're right and this... http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/faqs-scrappage-scheme.html seems to say so.

BrianD3

Saab Ed wrote: »

Okay using the Clio as an example.....

Possible available discounts are as follows:

1) Straight Deal = Dealer discount ( ie how much profit givin away ) + €1000 reg bonus from Renault of which the dealer doesnt have to give back any to the customer.

3) Trading in a car registered first between Jan 31st 2002 and Feb 2000 = Renault Scrappage of €1500 + Renault Trade In bonus €1500 + what ever the dealer wants to put into the car. Important thing here is that the car doesnt have to be scrapped. The car can be re-sold by the dealer which allows the dealer to re-coup any money they might have put into the car over and above the Scrappage/Trade-In allowances and retain profit.

Fair enough but it's a daft system - the first time I've heard of a manufacturer scrappage scheme where you needed to have an actual car to avail of it and as a result ended up doing much better deal than someone doing a straight deal. So if I present a rusty old Fiesta with a blown head gasket and slipping clutch to the dealer, I get 2 grand more off a Clio than the person doing a straight deal.

Saab Ed

BrianD3 wrote: »

Fair enough but it's a daft system - the first time I've heard of a manufacturer scrappage scheme where you needed to have an actual car to avail of it and as a result ended up doing much better deal than someone doing a straight deal. So if I present a rusty old Fiesta with a blown head gasket and slipping clutch to the dealer, I get 2 grand more off a Clio than the person doing a straight deal.

Fair enough , I see where you're coming from but would it not be even dafter if you could walk into a Renault dealer and get a better deal straight than if you were trading something in ! Think about it that way.

PS... People are actually buying bags of sh!te for 50 quid just to trade them in and get the extra money. Dont forget though this only works for the Renault scheme and not the government one .

smooch71

The revenue and budget sites are quoting "up to" €1500 scrappage. What does this mean? Is it €1500 or not?

Assuming my car is 10 years old and meets all the criteria, do I get €1500?

Also, Renault's website has a lot of n/a's in the A & B category cars under the gov scheme heading. Can anyone explain this please? I understand the rest of Renault's scheme but this bit I don't get.

Is there a website that explains this properly? Any government websites on the matter are v. confusing!

BrianD3

Saab Ed wrote: »

Fair enough , I see where you're coming from but would it not be even dafter if you could walk into a Renault dealer and get a better deal straight than if you were trading something in ! Think about it that way.

But if the car you are trading in is a heap (which it can be, after all it's a scrappage scheme) what benefit does Renault possibly get from giving a far bigger discount to you than to the customer who wishes to buy straight. Unless the value of scrap metal has shot up of late, which I don't think it has.

Also, the cost to change for the person dealing straight wouldn't be less than the person with the trade in. The person with the trade in would get at least the same discount as the person doing a straight deal. That is the advantage of manufacturer "scrappage" deals/minimum trade in allowances as opposed to calling it a "discount". With the former the person with a heap to trade in feels they are getting a good deal or at least the dealer is saving them the hassle of getting rid of their heap. And for more valuable trade ins, the dealer can offer the trade value of the trade in + part of his profit margin + the minimum allowance to give the customer a "great price" for their car.

The scrappage bonus, trade in bonus, reg bonus added to possible dealer discounts and now a government scrappage scheme - faffing about by Renault IMO, just cut the list price and let the dealers and government do their thing . BMW, Mercedes and others have cut prices, I saw an ad for the C class today, 35k. Laguna 2.0 DCi has list price of 36.9k. Now obviously, the various discounts should/may mean the Laguna works out substantially cheaper but still, its uncomfortably close.

Anyhow this discussion about Renault's own scrappage bonus could now be irrelevant as it looks like they have changed the conditions and have actually made a balls of their own website. The gov scrappage scheme is now apparently 320 quid fro a Clio and "n/a" for most others (tell that to Lenihan) Yet Renault's own scrappage remains the same. So what I'm guessing they'e done is removed their own scrappage, replaced it with the gov one, but are trying to hide the fact by making it look like the gov scrappage is "n/a". Also I see a mistake, if the Laguna 2.0 DCi produces 155 g/km, it's not in emissions Band B.
http://www.renault.ie/pv_pricelist_index.asp

ninty9er

The Renault pricelist says the govt. scheme applies only to the Clio and Twingo, I assume this is incorrect and needs correction.

Rafloution

See 2 pages back... One is a link to a video on Renault website stating they will keep their scheme if the government bring one in. However the pricelist is now showing different figures.

As I said moving the goalposts it appears

macplaxton

smooch71 wrote: »

The revenue and budget sites are quoting "up to" €1500 scrappage. What does this mean? Is it €1500 or not?

Assuming my car is 10 years old and meets all the criteria, do I get €1500?

Back to the Revenue FAQs

"I am thinking of trading in my old car for a new hybrid. The VRT payable on the hybrid is €1,200. Will I get €1,500 VRT relief?

No. The scheme provides for relief of VRT up to a maximum of €1,500. You will not get more than the VRT actually due in respect of the new vehicle. In your case, where the VRT is less than €1,500, you will get relief of €1,200 only – the VRT that you were due to pay. "

i.e. they're not giving you any more VRT back than you've actually paid!

Saab Ed

BrianD3 wrote: »

But if the car you are trading in is a heap (which it can be, after all it's a scrappage scheme) what benefit does Renault possibly get from giving a far bigger discount to you than to the customer who wishes to buy straight. Unless the value of scrap metal has shot up of late, which I don't think it has.

To make sure dealers dont export them to the UK thats why. If Renault Ireland was to just drop the price by all of the above mentioned discounts then the cars would be a good lot cheaper than in the UK before VRT. The Irish dealers would just start shipping the cars over there to Car supermarkets etc and the UK dealers would be up in arms. This way the Irish dealer only gets the extra discount from Renault in the form of a Reg bonus and a scrappage Rebate on proof that a vehicle was traded in. No trade in and the dealer has lost out.

Seth Brundle

From what I can see, if a car could be sought in the UK/NI for less that it would be here, you could still avail of the scrappage deal!

Anan1 wrote: »

That's exactly why I was against the scheme - it's actually anti-environment IMO.

The carbon footprint of producing the car does not apply to the Irish carbon number so it doesn't count. We only have to worry about the emissions carbon footprint.
Its pretend greenness!

niceirishfella

You know none of this matters - what matter is if it saves a few much need jobs in the motor industry.

...even if it saves just 1 family from the misery of a job loss, it'll be worth it for me.