Bioware or Bethesda?

allanb49

Can't make a poll on my phone but these two have had the best recieved rpgs for well into a decade now, with the likes of elder scrolls, mass effect, fallout 3, baldurs gate and kotor. so my question is overall who makes the more enjoyable games overall?

scange01

Bioware FTW! Narration and direction is more important to me than freedom.

cherryghost

i'll go for bioware

there are positives and negatives though

What they share in common:
- Excellent voiceovers and scriptwriting
- Solid gameplay
- Exceptional support on their websites with regards to issues with their games.


Bethseda Negatives:
- Their games can be slow paced at times
- Kinda sold out with the average expansions from Fallout 3

Bioware Negatives
- Dialogue can be long and painful
- The 'replay factor'; basically they changed the first half hour of the game and the rest is the same under different factions.


I had more fun gameplaywise with Bioware. Not taking anything away from Bethsedas games at all, but there are points that feel like a grind and bore :P

Spaco

I have honestly been blown away by Bethesda's work on the 360.
Loved Elder Scrolls, really amazing. Was a bit cold towards Fallout 3 at the start, but when i played for the 2nd and 3rd time makes me realise how brilliant it is. Great storytelling, cinematic. Loved it.
Bioware are good but the games i've played, KOTOR and Mass Effect are good, really enjoyed them both but something about Bethesda just keep me coming back for more and looking forward to seeing what they produce next.
And i didn't feel the add ons for Fallout 3 were cheap, apart from anchorage, but the others were fun and more than worth the MS points.

Nevyn

It has to be Bioware, yes NWN2 was a clanger but for sheer playablity and enjoyment over a wider range of titles, it has to be Bioware.

cherryghost

add a sexy poll!

Gunmonkey

Or at least a sexy party!!!


Gotta go with Bioware, Bethesda have released a few stinkers recently (was Rouge Warrior developed or published by Beth??) while Biowares ahve been all gold quality games. Roll on Mass Effect 2.

Retr0gamer

Atlus are better than both. Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, Persona, Etrian Odyssey.

I'd also rank Level 5 ahead as well with Rogue Galaxy, Dragon Quest VIII, Jeanne D'arc amongst others.

I do love me some Fallout 3 though. Oblivion didn't do anything for me though.

cherryghost

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Atlus are better than both. Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, Persona, Etrian Odyssey.

I'd also rank Level 5 ahead as well with Rogue Galaxy, Dragon Quest VIII, Jeanne D'arc amongst others.

I do love me some Fallout 3 though. Oblivion didn't do anything for me though.

well add a poll so, mister

Kazuma

Ahhh, rarely will I hear Atlus mentioned retr0, +1
On topic though, to me Bethesda and BioWare seem like apples & oranges, different experiences entirely - still remember playing the first elder scrolls.
They're both great companies.

Seifer

It's insulting to Bioware to even compare them.
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are up there with the best games of all time.

Retr0gamer

cherryghost wrote: »

well add a poll so, mister

Done, and I didn't even spoil it with JRPG publishers

noodler

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Done, and I didn't even spoil it with JRPG publishers

Good. Bloody thread stealing thief!

pablomakaveli

I've played Bethesdas Morrowind, Oblivion and Fallout 3 and Biowares KotOR, Mass Effect and Dragon age.

Overall i've slightly preferred Bethesdas games mostly because of the freedom to explore and pretty much do what i want in them. While biowares games are great i do feel like im being boxed at times while playing them

Sarky

It'll be a long long time before I forgive Bethesda for Oblivion. Bioware haven't steered me wrong yet.

allanb49

Thanks for adding the poll retro, i'm going with bioware, loved kotor one played it when i got my xbox more than halo and my oh loves
mass effect, good strong story,
beth seem more serious more humor was needed in fallout, some random encounters or pop culture references ala the first two games wouldnt go amiss

Useful.Idiot

Bioware. Baldurs Gate 2. 'nuff said.

Although Morrowind is fantastic.

ItsNoAlias

Bioware, mostly because I'v played a lot more of their games.

Vegeta

I have played a few titles by both this year and it is a tough call

BioWare cant QA console titles for sh1t though. Buggy game after buggy game

I am currently playing through Dragon Age and while it looks below par and there have been console lock ups, audio errors, cut scenes playing multiple times and glitches which annoy, the gameplay is sufficient to save it from being labelled as poor. The gameplay is unbalanced like most BioWare games I have played, I started it as a Rouge and would have had a much easier time if I started as a Warrior.

Bethesda got so many things wrong in Oblivion, levelling enemies being my main objection but I really enjoyed Fallout 3. A lot of people hated the V.A.T.S system in it but I loved it and really hope it carries into any future Elder Scrolls games.


Retr0 mentioned a lot of Japanese tongue twisters there but unfortunately I have not played any of them

Actually I'd be interested in your top 5 "Must Plays" of the current generation Retr0.

Retr0gamer

Bethesda need to hire some decent writers because their games are really let down by terrible storytelling and poor attempts at humour. It's a shame because they usually have very good story ideas as seen in The Pitt.

noodler

Vegeta wrote: »

Retr0 mentioned a lot of Japanese tongue twisters there but unfortunately I have not played any of them

Actually I'd be interested in your top 5 "Must Plays" of the current generation Retr0.

Persons 3
Persona 4
Valkyria Chronicles

I am guessing those 3 out of 5! Would try to guess more but I imagine they are Ninty games.

Retr0gamer

Vegeta wrote: »

Actually I'd be interested in your top 5 "Must Plays" of the current generation Retr0.

This generation has been awful for JRPGs. The best JRPGs are on the PS2, PSP and DS. Valkyria Chronicles on PS3 is the only really good one on the big consoles but it's a cracker.

Best of the bunch is Persona 3 and 4, quite possibly 2 of the best JRPGs ever made.

I've heard that Shin Megami Tensei: Lucifiers Call/Nocturne is another amazing game as are the 2 digital devil saga games.

Dragon Quest VIII is pretty much a must play.

On the PSP the best two are Jeanne D'Arc and despite being a rerelease Final Fantasy Tactics.

The DS is filled with amazing JRPGs like the mario and luigi games, Etrian Odyssey and of course Pokemon!

Not a fan of Biowares games ar all but it's personal preference. Isee how people can love them but I just hate the boring inane conversations that I find badly written.

lazlo

Seifer wrote: »

It's insulting to Bioware to even compare them.
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are up there with the best games of all time.

They are the best games of all time. Bioware rule the roost

uberpixie

Vegeta wrote: »

The gameplay is unbalanced like most BioWare games I have played, I started it as a Rouge and would have had a much easier time if I started as a Warrior.

I found the rogue to be a very good class, well balanced and can wear the same armor as a warrior once they get their strength up. True not as tough as a warrior, but they are not meant to tank... Rogues in dragon age are much tougher and less restrictive than the standard rouges you would find in a total D+D based game.

Myself I would pick Bioware over bethesda. Enjoyed much more of their games over Bethesda, though to be fair they did a pretty good job of Fallout3 (all things considered) .

hooradiation

Bioware gave us the galaxy saving, reporter punching Commander Sheppard.

Bethseda gave us....ummm......

So, like i was saying, punching reporters out for having the audacity to question me?
Awesome.

pablomakaveli

hooradiation wrote: »

Bioware gave us the galaxy saving, reporter punching Commander Sheppard.

Bethseda gave us....ummm......

So, like i was saying, punching reporters out for having the audacity to question me?
Awesome.

Mass Effect also gave us lesbian intra-species sex.:)

BlitzKrieg

we could rate by their less recieved titles?

Bioware gave us: SONIC RPG

BATHESDA: gave us STAR TREK LEGACY

sink

Bioware by a country mile. Story telling, character development combat mechanics are all in general far superior in Bioware games. Bethesda games feel wooden and disconnected in comparison like you're just passing through, you never feel part of the world. Relationships with NPC's are one dimensional and you never care for them.

Liber8or

Thaedydal wrote: »

It has to be Bioware, yes NWN2 was a clanger but for sheer playablity and enjoyment over a wider range of titles, it has to be Bioware.

Sorry to correct you, but I couldn't have the great BioWare being blamed for that mess people call NWN2. Neverwinter Nights 2 was developed by Obsidian, not BioWare.

lazlo

Liber8or wrote: »

Sorry to correct you, but I couldn't have the great BioWare being blamed for that mess people call NWN2. Neverwinter Nights 2 was developed by Obsidian, not BioWare.

Good game but it lacks the distinct stamp Bioware usually have in their gameworlds. It may just be a case of BG1 and 2 raising the bar way too high for me though.

Kiith

I too would have to go with Bioware, mainly because of Baldur's Gate 2. Its remains to this day my no.1 RPG of all time. No game has ever come close to giving me what BG2 did. Also, with KotOR, Mass Effect, Neverwinter Nights, Dragon Age. All fantastic titles.

I also love them both though. Loved Morrowind, love Oblivion and Fallout 3.

Mr Freeze

Bioware for me...by a long shot.

Loved Oblivion, Hated Fallout 3. And Bethesda published a few muck titles recentely, Wet and Rogue Warrior.

Loved KOTOR back in the day, and Mass Effect and Dragon Age are 2 amazing titles, especially Mass Effect. Roll on ME2.

Burning Eclipse

While I love Morrowind, and to a lesser extent Oblivion, and think Fallout 3 is a gem... It has to be Bioware. Mass Effect is excellent. It has technical issues coming out of it's ass, but there really are 2 different games in there depending on how you play it, without even taking character classes into account. Jade Empire is a great game also; John Cleese puts in a great cameo, not to mention KotOR... Oh Bastilla!! Storytelling in Bioware games is just better I think. Loved Morrowind's story, and while Oblivion was better in almost every area for me, the story was crap in comparison! Crap!!

So yes, Mass Effect really clinches it for me

hooradiation: Exactly... Don't like the questions - 'Time to shut you up'!

One thing I will say for both developers is that their artistic vision and direction far outstrips their technical prowess. The huge loading times and embarassing texture pop-in in Mass Effect, the Fallout 3 DLC being largely broken, KOTOR freezing, Oblivion causing console locking, the slowdown in Jade Empire, the horrible slowdown in Morrowind...

Oh, thinking about it a bit more, Bioware write far superior characters! Plus they got Jed Bartlett for Mass Effect 2 = Automatic win

Vyse

Hard one to call. Two of the best games I've played of the last decade were Knights of the Old Republic and Oblivion. I think Bioware just about swings it.

NeoKubrick

CKWPORT wrote: »

Bioware for me...by a long shot.

Loved Oblivion, Hated Fallout 3. And Bethesda published a few muck titles recentely, Wet and Rogue Warrior.

Bethesda Game Studios didn't develop Wet or Rogue Warrior. Bethesda Softworks published those two games. Bethesda Game Studios have developed the Elder Scrolls series (though, credit is given to Bethesda Softworks to all titles before Morrowind, because Bethesda Game Studios didn't formally exist), and Fallout 3.


It's a difficult choice, but it has to be Bethesda Game Studios. If I had to pick one game from both of the developers' catalogue to play for the rest of my life, I'd be stuck between Morrowind or Oblivion. Morrowind was the North Star: you started guiding your experiences of other games by it. BioWare's games are great, too, but you always have had to accept their major flaws to enjoy their games; you could never change the rules to make a better game like you essentially could with Bethesda's. The gameplay is always an obstacle in a BioWare game, not an experience. With Morrowind, Oblivion, or Fallout 3, the gameplay is an experience; those games are truly role-playing.

koneko

Seifer wrote: »

It's insulting to Bioware to even compare them.
Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are up there with the best games of all time.

This is nearly word for word what I was thinking.

Also, JRPGs blergh.

Monotype

I prefer Bethesda games (the ones I've played at least), but I think they also have better respect for their customers than Bioware, as they don't do stupid activations and rubbish like that on their games.

Kiith

Monotype wrote: »

I prefer Bethesda games (the ones I've played at least), but I think they also have better respect for their customers than Bioware, as they don't do stupid activations and rubbish like that on their games.

Activations?

Monotype

Kiith wrote: »

Activations?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_effect#Digital_rights_management

Causes annoying problems for windows users, consoles are probably unaffected.

Kiith

Ahh ok, i only played the Steam version of Mass Effect. While DRM can be annoying, i understand why companies still use it. Though thats an argument for another thread :pac:

leninbenjamin

After a long time away from it, I've given the RPG genre another go recently. The Bioware ones i've lined up for the Christmas hols' but a few hours into a Bethesda's Obivion and I'm finding it repetitive. Good story line, nice aesthetics and some decent dialogue (although it's a bit too long winded for me) but the combat so far is really uninspiring.

I probably haven't been playing enough to be able to say this definitely, but considering the last RPGs i played were in the mid 90s, Oblivion from 2006 so far (6 hours or so) has introduced nothing new so far.

TomCo

I vote for Black Isle to be added to the poll.

abelard

What I wouldn't do for a new Baldur's Gate game. *swoons*

BeansBeans

leninbenjamin wrote: »

After a long time away from it, I've given the RPG genre another go recently. The Bioware ones i've lined up for the Christmas hols' but a few hours into a Bethesda's Obivion and I'm finding it repetitive. Good story line, nice aesthetics and some decent dialogue (although it's a bit too long winded for me) but the combat so far is really uninspiring.

I probably haven't been playing enough to be able to say this definitely, but considering the last RPGs i played were in the mid 90s, Oblivion from 2006 so far (6 hours or so) has introduced nothing new so far.

The Oblivion gates are bloody repetitive all right. Oblivion is one of my favourite games ever. But I think you get the most out of it if you treat it like another sandbox game like say Star Wars Galaxies, Finamous or eh you know.
I had the most fun really just messing around in the game world annoying NPCs and then doing a quest and going back to thieving and stuff like that . Long time since ive played it, im thinking im gonna buy it again.

HAving said that i bought the ps3 version to layp it again when i got my PS3 baaaaad idea. It was absolutely horrible on console, but the GOTY PC edition is only €19 off game

Right enough mindless rambling. :rolleyes:

Valmont

Sarky wrote: »

It'll be a long long time before I forgive Bethesda for Oblivion.

Why exactly? Oblivion is one of my favourite games only topped by Morrowind, Bioshock and Mafia.

I didn't like Fallout3 that much but I still voted Bethesda because I found Oblivion and Morrowind to be far superior to the Bioware offerings (I still really liked Neverwinter nights).

Valmont

Interesting posts. I don't think anybody could confidently back up any assertion that Bethesda is extremely inferior to Bioware; I voted Bethesda but I knew that Bioware would be ahead.

You may not have liked it, but there is no denying that Oblivion is a great RPG game (yes, it has issues, but what RPG doesn't).

markfla

KOTOR and mass effect were class, really like oblivion but couldn't take to Fallout 3.....dissapointed by the graphics...I know rpgs are inferior to other genres but I was expecting something a bit more polished.....having said that the best soundtrack is definitely Fallout 3....the old tunes really set the retro/distopian mood:)
"I don't want to set the world on fire"

Jilm

Valmont wrote: »

You may not have liked it, but there is no denying that Oblivion is a great RPG game.

It really isn't.

BeansBeans

Aah it really is.

Sarky

Valmont wrote: »

Why exactly? Oblivion is one of my favourite games only topped by Morrowind, Bioshock and Mafia.

Oblivion was drop-dead gorgeous, but that was really it. The plot was a huge step backwards, the characters were rubbish (everyone was irritating AND a bug-eyed freak), and various little bits and pieces just ruined the immersion completely. Why couldn't you fly anymore? Why were all the dungeons and towns so samey? Why was the Imperial City, the jewel of Cyrodil and capital of a vast kingdom composed of maybe 50 people, half of whom were guards? Why was getting out of character creation and into the actual game so bloody tedious? Why were there still too many f*cking mudcrabs? Oh, there's a truckload of side quests you can do, but they're jammed in there to distract you from the rubbish story. Morrowind almost didn't have side quests at all, it had dozens of MASSIVE quests, all some way intertwining with the really really huge one at the centre of it all. The world was much more original, as opposed to a cut'n'paste 15 square miles of trees and meadows.

Oblivion just has no soul, plain and simple. A pretty exterior to distract you from the fact that it's dead inside, a shallow, hollow experience.

I didn't like Fallout3 that much but I still voted Bethesda because I found Oblivion and Morrowind to be far superior to the Bioware offerings (I still really liked Neverwinter nights).

Fallout 3 was a big improvement on Oblivion. The characters were much better, the visuals were far more varied, the plot was more interesting, the world more immersive. It captured a lot of the essence of previous Fallout games, something Oblivion failed to do.

For me, Bioware always get the immersion right (ie they HAVE some). They always get a story that's good enough to make you want to finish it (Oblivion had me bored to tears with the first gate. Man, Hell is BLAND). They do great dialogue. I don't care about getting the most xp and having the top-tier special ability. When I want an RPG I want to be able to immerse myself in something and see my choices through to the end. I want purpose. This sandbox stuff is all well and good but it has to be done right. Morrowind, and Fallout (not so much 3, I think) got it dead right.

Bioware games are usually more linear, yes, but it works. If I wanted to pay €40-50 to entertain myself I'd buy a stack of porn.

NeoKubrick

Sarky wrote: »

Oblivion was drop-dead gorgeous, but that was really it. The plot was a huge step backwards, the characters were rubbish (everyone was irritating AND a bug-eyed freak), and various little bits and pieces just ruined the immersion completely. Why couldn't you fly anymore? Why were all the dungeons and towns so samey? Why was the Imperial City, the jewel of Cyrodil and capital of a vast kingdom composed of maybe 50 people, half of whom were guards? Why was getting out of character creation and into the actual game so bloody tedious? Why were there still too many f*cking mudcrabs? Oh, there's a truckload of side quests you can do, but they're jammed in there to distract you from the rubbish story. Morrowind almost didn't have side quests at all, it had dozens of MASSIVE quests, all some way intertwining with the really really huge one at the centre of it all. The world was much more original, as opposed to a cut'n'paste 15 square miles of trees and meadows.

Oblivion just has no soul, plain and simple. A pretty exterior to distract you from the fact that it's dead inside, a shallow, hollow experience.


Fallout 3 was a big improvement on Oblivion. The characters were much better, the visuals were far more varied, the plot was more interesting, the world more immersive. It captured a lot of the essence of previous Fallout games, something Oblivion failed to do.

For me, Bioware always get the immersion right (ie they HAVE some). They always get a story that's good enough to make you want to finish it (Oblivion had me bored to tears with the first gate. Man, Hell is BLAND). They do great dialogue. I don't care about getting the most xp and having the top-tier special ability. When I want an RPG I want to be able to immerse myself in something and see my choices through to the end. I want purpose. This sandbox stuff is all well and good but it has to be done right. Morrowind, and Fallout (not so much 3, I think) got it dead right.

Bioware games are usually more linear, yes, but it works. If I wanted to pay €40-50 to entertain myself I'd buy a stack of porn.

What's more amusing than Sarky's wide-of-the-mark and utterly wrong criticisms is imagining his petulant tirade if he had actually understood the major flaws with Oblivion.

The plot of Oblivion was a huge step backwards? From where was the series placed that Oblivion's plot was considered a step back from said position? You clearly haven't played and finished either Morrowind or Oblivion, and I say that because that's the only reasonable explanation to explain why anyone would claim Oblivion was a step back. Here's the plot: bad guy is terrorizing world, and recruiting followers and you, the unnamed champion have to convince the world to unite to destroy this evil. Now, is that Oblivion's or Morrowind's plot? You're having trouble answering that, because it's actually both. So, it's not logically possible to claim it's a step-back when Oblivion's plot was roughly the same as Morrowind's. You can criticize Oblivion for a stagnating rehashed plot, but, then, Elder Scrolls series has never been about the quality of its constructed narrative; in fact, the player has the option to simply choose not to participate in the main quest, at all.

Morrowind had a lot of side-quests, too. I don't know what evidence or criteria you're basing that statement on that it "almost" had none. You don't remember looking for a fork at Dagon Fel? You don't remember looking for any of the artifacts littered around Vvardenfell? You don't remember escorting a priest to the Ghostgate et cetera? There were a lot of side-quests in Morrowind. Elder Scrolls series' side-quests are a choice, not a distraction; you can choose which side-quests you want to complete and be part of your character's narrative (i.e. don't want to be a thief, don't join the Thieves' Guild).

Morrowind's 'Get you off the boat' sequence was much more tedious than Oblivion's sequence where it introduced the King and the plot: it put you right into the gameplay straight away, which forced the player to learn how to survive before exposing him/her to the larger and dangerous world outside and the reward at the end was an escape to that world. That was an improvement the series had made, and good game design.

Oblivion's world wasn't any more cut-and-paste than Morrowind's world. The majority of the map in Morrowind was Ashlands: grey nothingness occasionally broken up by a pool of lava. That was with a game which had a limited draw-distance relative to Oblivion's. Oblivion's map was very impressively designed: it has a lot of variety - subtle and obvious. The towns aren't the same at all: Bruma is different to Anvil; Chorol is different to Bravil et cetera. Oblivion has just as much variety in dungeons as Morrowind. Again, I don't know what evidence you're basing all these implied claims on.

Mudcrabs? Cliff-racers? Case-closed. It's pedantic, but you couldn't fly in Morrowind, either. You could use a levitate spell to lift you up and let you run on an invisible barrier, which was absent in Oblivion.


And, I actually prefer Morrowind to Oblivion. Oblivion had three significant flaws: (1) its leveling-system, (2) random loot, and (3) repetition and reuse of the same voices. They weren't game-breaking flaws, and they weren't enough to regulate Oblivion below Morrowind.