Are some Private Sector workers using their colleagues misfortune....

Liam79

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

Is there?

gandalf

Well all I can do is take people at face value to what they post here, whether they are or aren't doesn't change the fact that the Government cannot afford to continue their expenditure levels any more. They have to do something about it. Reducing their costs is the most logical thing to do?

damoz

Im sure there are. But if they havent taken any pay cut etc then their employer is obviously doing well, making profits, and fair play to them. What i can say for sure, that these people would be the exception and not the rule - and there are always exceptions.

The public sector employer is not in a healthy state, so cuts, while unpalitable for some, are essential to restore the balance in income and expenditure. The private sector is self policing, so it shouldnt enter the argument.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Liam79

gandalf wrote: »

Well all I can do is take people at face value to what they post here, whether they are or aren't doesn't change the fact that the Government cannot afford to continue their expenditure levels any more. They have to do something about it. Reducing their costs is the most logical thing to do?

Going on IBEC's own figures of the amt of currently employed private sector workers who have actually taken a pay cut....no where near the figure some here would have you believe, and thats from IBEC, then I have no doubt, an awful lot of the Poor mouth being played here by an awful lot of people is nothing more then utter BS

gandalf

Liam79 wrote: »

the Private sector worker Taxpayer can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

I amended your statement and yes it is relevant to them if they are paying any tax at all.

Liam79

gandalf wrote: »

I amended your statement and yes it is relevant to them if they are paying any tax at all.

You realise of course that PS workers pay the exact same Tax/PRSI as the bullet proof bastions of society that is the Private Sector, dont you?

hobochris

Liam79 wrote: »

You realise of course that PS workers pay the exact same Tax/PRSI as the bullet proof bastions of society that is the Private Sector, dont you?

Perhaps the meaning of taxpayer(In this context) should be defined as someone who pays tax into the tax net(from means outside of public funds(tax take)) and not someone who recycles tax money.

If we did away with tax in the public sector and just paid them what they currently clear(Net pay) we could do away with a lot of the extra administration, saving more of the tax payers money.

Bruce2008

Liam79 wrote: »

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?...

I believe you have hit a few home truths.... I am in the Private Sector but I do not believe in the PS getting hit like that yesterday on top of the pension levy (which was a paycut in stealth form)... it is a bit over the top some of the repies the PS posts get but then I think it is the flavour of the month.. stirred up by the media....

RTE have added to this by reporting on the alleged public service workers shopping in the north on strike day.... and all the private sectors stayed at home????

Also the spin put on the 12 days off was crazy... it was short time/ reduced hours that was being proposed... not extra holidays... and then the "well if they can do five days work in four days then they are overstaffed" but if you do that in the private sector you can get a pat on the back for working harder....

I think some people are using these threads to let off steam at anybody then can focus on.... it was banks now its PS... who is next??? Keep the heads down

Tim Robbins

Liam79 wrote: »

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

Is there?

Everyone I know in the private sector has been hit or has spent the last year and half just sh*tting it they'll go into work some day get an email and their job is gone and all the have is statutory redundancy. This is a fear that people in the public sector just don't seem to understand.

I was cut 5%, wife cut 100% so for all the moaning I have heard from the public sector, the cuts seem like nada and we are sick to bleedin' death listening to it.

Liam79

The last time one section of society was singled out and hung out to dry like this, Adolf Hitler was in power in Germany ........

neilthefunkeone

douglashyde

I'm sure they are using their colleagues misfortunes, however that does not change the fact that the Public Sector are on average overpaid FOR the work they do.

That is not to suggest that they are lazy workers(althought a lot of them are), it is however to suggest that, again, on average, a public sector worker would not be qualified enough to get the same wage in the privite sector.

Take the garda for example, what makes any of our Garda so qualified to start a carrer where his/her pay grade will reach over 1000 euro a week. Is it a year in templemore?

In contrast spend 4 years in College studying business, Some may go on to earn over a 1000 euro a week, BUT only the ones that deserve it......

Liam79

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Everyone I know in the private sector has been hit or has spent the last year and half just sh*tting it they'll go into work some day get an email and their job is gone and all the have is statutory redundancy. This is a fear that people in the public sector just don't seem to understand.

I was cut 5%, wife cut 100% so for all the moaning I have heard from the public sector, the cuts seem like nada and we are sick to bleedin' death listening to it.

IBEC seem to differ......yes thats IBEC....not ICTU

frman

Liam79 wrote: »

The last time one section of society was singled out and hung out to dry like this, Adolf Hitler was in power in Germany ........

Oh come on.......:rolleyes:


That EUR1800 that has been taken off the salary of 34k is just like being gassed.

Okay..................

gandalf

Liam79 wrote: »

Going on IBEC's own figures of the amt of currently employed private sector workers who have actually taken a pay cut....no where near the figure some here would have you believe, and thats from IBEC, then I have no doubt, an awful lot of the Poor mouth being played here by an awful lot of people is nothing more then utter BS

Well tbh I believe this thread thats stickied at the top of this forum.

I know that the amount that I am down is correct I cannot comment for others but it still doesn't change the fact that the Government is spending more than it is taking in and has to rectify that? Do you want us to debit the next generation of this country to keep over-inflated wages in the PS?

Liam79

So..to summarise....you all think that lower paid PS workers,(20-40k) should and still will, be hit again....??

Sleepy

TBH, I don't think there's many in the private sector who haven't been affected somehow - either through direct paycuts, other people's redundancies combined with pay freezes resulting in more work for the same pay etc.

That said, I'm reading Richard Branson's 'Business Stripped Bare' right now and he believes actions in recessions is where fortunes are made during the booms so, no doubt, many of the entrepeneurial class will be building the foundations of fortunes even though they might just be making ends meet at the moment.

murphaph

Liam79 wrote: »

The last time one section of society was singled out and hung out to dry like this, Adolf Hitler was in power in Germany ........

The most ridiculous statement I've ever read on boards. Comparing your plight to that of the Jews during the Third Reich is actually disgusting and I suspect if you'd ever visited a concentration camp site (I have), complete with gas chambers and crematoria that you'd be of a different opinion.

gandalf

Liam79 wrote: »

So..to summarise....you all think that lower paid PS workers,(20-40k) should and still will, be hit again....??

No I think that anyone under 26K should not have taken a paycut but the tax threshold should have been lowered to take more people both private and public into the tax net who aren't in it already. And I think that the higher paid in the PS should have been hit harder.

But if the Government are still not balancing their books then yes the PS and the rest of us will be taking more hits and I firmly do not believe we are at rock bottom yet unlike Mr Lenihans assurances yesterday.

By the way under Godwins law this thread is now over....

Smcgie

I can't understand how some people can't see past their noses. The PS boss (Brian Lenehan) has stated to continue running his business (this country) there will need to be cuts. The private sector have already through this pain for over a year or more now.

And all this talk about "We didn't cause this the bankers/developers did" is nonsense. We bought the houses or if not too. We borrowed the money that we may now not be able to pay back.

The people that are complaining about pay cuts are like people that would be standing on the deck of the titanic refusing to get off saying "I didn't put the iceberg there"

And instead of striking be glad you have a monthly wage and can live. Its time to grow up and live in the real world!

frman

Liam79 wrote: »

So..to summarise....you all think that lower paid PS workers,(20-40k) should and still will, be hit again....??

If the Government can't afford the wage bill then it needs to be done.


Look at it this way.

Eur34k salary has been reduced by EUR1.8k

This represents a drop of about 5.20 %

The cost of living has dropped by 6.5% over the last 12 months.
(I think it is about 3.5 if mortgages are taken out).


It's not that bad and could have been a lot worse.


The unions were willing to concede 1 day per month to the govt.
If we work an average of 22 days per month, that 1 day unpaid represents a little under 5%.

The Unions don't have a leg to stand on if they say that the "lower" paid ps worker has been unfairly targetted. They were giving away almost the same figure themselves.

ejmaztec

Liam79 wrote: »

Going on IBEC's own figures of the amt of currently employed private sector workers who have actually taken a pay cut....no where near the figure some here would have you believe, and thats from IBEC, then I have no doubt, an awful lot of the Poor mouth being played here by an awful lot of people is nothing more then utter BS

It seems that you would like it to be BS, for whatever reason, but I don't know anyone in the private sector that hasn't taken a hammering (with the exception of liquidators).

Boskowski

Well, I looked at the figures and it seems there are about 125 thousand people in Irelands population of 4.5 million in total earning between 50 and 80 thousand Euro per annum.

These roughly 3% of the population pay roughly over 40% of the taxes raised.

I feel being in that bracket entitles me to an opinion whether I took a cut myself or not.

amacachi

No doubt plenty in the Private sector are crying poverty now while having taken little or no cut, as in the Public sector. People claiming to be down 10% but with increments actually being down 1-4%.

gandalf

amacachi wrote: »

No doubt plenty in the Private sector are crying poverty now while having taken little or no cut, as in the Public sector. People claiming to be down 10% but with increments actually being down 1-4%.

But again what has this got to do with with the fact the Government are no longer getting the tax take in to justify paying wages at there current levels?

ntlbell

Liam79 wrote: »

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

Is there?

What difference does it make?

The goverment doesn't employee that worker.

it doesn't pay that workers wages.

The goverment doesn't have to borrow money to pay that worker.

Regardless of what's going on in the private sector, the PS pay bill was too high, PS workers were over paid compared to the EU counterparts. PS workers wages increased regardless of performance or producitivity.

You can start as many threads as you want you can harp on about the private sector as much as you want but the FACT that will remain is.

your company CANNOT afford to pay it's staff anymore.

there's nothing more to do it.

You don't need to be an unaffected private sector worker to understand this or discuss it, do you?

Smcgie

amacachi wrote: »

No doubt plenty in the Private sector are crying poverty now while having taken little or no cut, as in the Public sector. People claiming to be down 10% but with increments actually being down 1-4%.

Sure your average annual pay is still higher that the private sector.. Come down from your high horse an live in the real world, we're people are unable to find a job to support their families.

The reason the private sector has no sympathy for the public sector is that they should never have gotten the over inflated pay in the first place. I wouldn't even consider calling yesterdays budget a pay cut. Its only a step in taking your earnings down to reality

tunney

Liam79 wrote: »

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

Is there?

I did lose my job, one in the so called knowledge sector.

How can you defend the indefensible? Work practices and renumeration are out of kilter? Does someone who works in Waterstones get paid 25k-30k a year? No - but they public sector counterpart does?

amacachi

gandalf wrote: »

But again what has this got to do with with the fact the Government are no longer getting the tax take in to justify paying wages at there current levels?

I was answering the question in the thread title.

Smcgie wrote: »

Sure your average annual pay is still higher that the private sector.. Come down from your high horse an live in the real world, we're people are unable to find a job to support their families.

The reason the private sector has no sympathy for the public sector is that they should never have gotten the over inflated pay in the first place. I wouldn't even consider calling yesterdays budget a pay cut. Its only a step in taking your earnings down to reality

Sorry what?

rubyred

Both my partner and I are in the private sector. I'm one of the extremely lucky ones who hasn't had to take a cut bar the standard tax levy thing. However, I would have no problem taking a cut to keep my job if my boss was in trouble financially. Luckily (even after a substantial reduction in his earnings) he still earns a few hundred grand a year so I think I'll be okay. PS. I'm the only person I know who works in the private sector who hasn't taken at least a 20% cut.

However, my partner still works five days a week but hasn't been paid a cent in over three months. He works for his parent's company and they gave him the choice to walk with all the other 200 staff or to stay and work for free with the promise that he would still have a paid job once (and if) the company gets out of trouble. And no his parents are not bailing him out cos neither of them have taken a wage in over a year.

Edited to say that at the end of the day a company can only pay out as much as it brings in (unless it borrows). If my boss couldn't afford to pay me then a P45 would be on my desk in the morning. Simple as that - if the money isn't there, the job isn't there.

Tilt Gone

Tbh I'm one of the lucky private sector workers who hasn't been hit. i'm on 40+ grand a year, Get a double weeks pay at Christmas, a bonus in Feb depending on performance and a 3% increase at least every year, with no pay cuts in sight. I feel sorry for all the PS workers and the private equally but I wont apologise for my situation. It just happens that the area I'm in makes ridiculous amounts of money so we haven't been hit yet ,thank God. My other half on the other hand has got screwed in her job having all ready taken a 5% pay cut along with losing all over time, bonuses and wage increases. Oh plus her shift has been cut from 4 cycle to 3 cycle.

Count Dooku

Liam79 wrote: »

You realise of course that PS workers pay the exact same Tax/PRSI as the bullet proof bastions of society that is the Private Sector, dont you?

They don’t pay any tax, gross PS salaries are artificially increased to make payroll procedures compatible with private sector, but net income of public sector fully paid by private sector
Another reason to give few grand extra and take it back immediately without passing into hands of PS workers is to have bigger tax revenue
Foreign investors always look on tax revenue, this is why government has to cheat as they do with GDP, inflated by MNC’s

danman

I can only give my own example to the OP.
I took a 25% paycut, but added 20 extra hours to my working week. Giving me a total paycut of 43% per hour.

I don't Know anyone in the private sector that hasn't been effected. Maybe it's just my friends mostly work in the construction and IT sectors. But to say that the majotity of Private workers haven't been hit is untrue in my experience.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

sofia11

I think this private v public is wicked. Can't people see that if people have less money esp lower paid public sector workers it will affect private business, people will have less to spend in the run up to christmas. Won't it have a knock on effect, more unemployment next year, it won't improve life/job security for private sector employees, IMO. I'm unemployed so i've nothing to splash out on for christmas.

danman

amacachi wrote: »

Sorry what?

Have a look at your counterpart in NI. They do the same job, do they get the same pay?

Smcgie

amacachi wrote: »

I was answering the question in the thread title.

Sorry what?

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

LEONKING

The public sector employer is not in a healthy state, so cuts, while unpalitable for some, are essential to restore the balance in income and expenditure. The private sector is self policing, so it shouldnt enter the argument.[/quote]

totally agree with this. Why the hell on primetime last night were they trying to do a comparison between a public sector worker and a private worker to show the difference to each that the budget has made?? The government cannot cut the wages of the private sector, they can only effect the Priv Sector by making tax changes which they chose not to do.

When will the public sector workers start to see the government as an employer(company) when it comes to paying wages. Private companies that are as in as bad a financial state as our government are have cut jobs, reduced wages, put in pay freezes etc etc. So the government is no different - if they don't have the money then they can't pay you.

manafana

my 50p

I took a 5% pay cut on a 24K salary more than fair, now i have been promoted, but whereas before i would seen a 3-5K bump up im still on same wage thats where my cut is, and we are still making money, so i hate been told by public sector workers that these cuts our unfair. Other option is keep your big pay jobs, and in few months you wont be paid at all, making 25K+ is better than sitting on ones bum at home.
The welfare situation is for another day, that wasnt done across the board, reducing rates are badly needed so recently unemployed get a fair payment.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Count Dooku

sofia11 wrote: »

I think this private v public is wicked. Can't people see that if people have less money esp lower paid public sector workers it will affect private business, people will have less to spend in the run up to christmas. Won't it have a knock on effect, more unemployment next year, it won't improve life/job security for private sector employees, IMO. I'm unemployed so i've nothing to splash out on for christmas.

If government will increase taxes on private sector to keep incomes of public sector, it will not bring any extra money into economy. Some parts of private sector will have to die.
Incomes of private sector already down by 12 Bn,
Unemployment is high, but mostly due construction industry.
Extra 6 Bn from public servants will increase unemployment by 30,000, but will balance finances.

LEONKING

Edited to say that at the end of the day a company can only pay out as much as it brings in (unless it borrows). If my boss couldn't afford to pay me then a P45 would be on my desk in the morning. Simple as that - if the money isn't there, the job isn't there.[/quote]

RUBYRED - thats the nail on the head - totally to the point

Private sector : No Money = No Jobs

Publin Sector : No Money = borrow to keep the public workers from striking and holding the country to ransom = unsustainble

amacachi

danman wrote: »

Have a look at your counterpart in NI. They do the same job, do they get the same pay?

I'm not in the civil service. My point was that while there's no doubt some in the private sector are exaggerating their misfortune plenty in the civil service are as well. I know one person claiming they were down 10%. Once his increment was taken into account his take home pay was down between 1 and 2%. The 5% pay cut he's getting will be almost completely covered when he receives his annual increment in April. So over two years he'll be down about 2%, not 15% as his union official claims and is trying to persuade him.

Smcgie

Does anyone else think that before an industrial ballet of a large scale in the public sector is confirmed that the general public should have a say so... If they were the public sector would realise that no one has any sympathy for them and if they go on strike we still won't have any sympathy for the.

LEONKING

Smcgie wrote: »

Does anyone else think that before an industrial ballet of a large scale in the public sector is confirmed that the general public should have a say so... If they were the public sector would realise that no one has any sympathy for them and if they go on strike we still won't have any sympathy for the.

totally agree - don't have and won't have sympathy for them in this situation.

David Begg you muppet !!

Dublin_Gunner

While I think the way the cuts have been implemented is unfair, I most certainly think its necessary.

I do believe that the <30K earners in the Public Sector should have been left well alone, and the high earners should have been hit a little harder, even by 0.5-1% to make up for the shortfall.

However, merely cutting wages in the public sector will NOT alleviate the problem in the first place.

There are MANY public sector jobs that really are totally unnecessary. I have cited the details of this on another thread, so not getting into it now.

The Public Sector needs a significant overhaul, jobs need to be made redundant, and the Civil Service streamlined. Why have 4 people doing a job when 1 will suffice?

I really don't understand how the Government has gotten away for so long paying employees for doing little or no work. And before someone jumps down my throat, I do know that this is happening, and this is in no way a critical comment on ALL Public Sector workers - many of which to a great job.

Its time for a complete overhaul, and reform of the public sector 'machine'. If the Government actually ran its 'company' as a viable 'business' in the bloody first place, we would not be in this mess.

How about instead of giving out about the Private Sector, they actually start to treat their own as Private Sector workers. Na make redundant jobs, bloody well redundant. The saving would be significant.

To the OP - for many many years (and it still holds fairly true), the only people who were/are 'bullet proof' are Public Sector workers.

amacachi

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I think the way the cuts have been implemented is unfair, I most certainly think its necessary.

I do believe that the <30K earners in the Public Sector should have been left well alone, and the high earners should have been hit a little harder, even by 0.5-1% to make up for the shortfall.

Haven't the figures to hand but there are a lot in the civil sector on less than 30k, leaving them alone would've left a big hole in the plan.

dearg lady

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In fairness, as far as I remember(correct me if I'm wrong) benchmarking carried out previously compared individual positions with a similiar position in the private sector. What's been advocated often on here is blanket cuts, which is quite unfair. There are sections within public sector I would consider underpaid, and others overpaid.

Boskowski

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

While I think the way the cuts have been implemented is unfair, I most certainly think its necessary.

I do believe that the <30K earners in the Public Sector should have been left well alone, and the high earners should have been hit a little harder, even by 0.5-1% to make up for the shortfall.

I agree and I blame the public sector unions.

They continued to live in cloud-cuckoo-land and were genuinely expecting to pull some sort of stunt and avoid cuts altogether. When that didn't materialize they decided to throw a tantrum when instead they should have ensured that the inevitable cuts were just and fair.

They're useless and if I were a public sector worker in the lower wage bands I'd be rightly pissed off with them.

Count Dooku

Liam79 wrote: »

Are there some/many employed members of the private sector using the current situation to their advantage.

Are there some/many private sector workers on boards who have not taken any cut in their hours/pay but are playing the poor mouth just cos they are in the private sector so they know they are practically bullet proof from criticism right now?

Are their some/many well paid private sector workers in here preaching to lower paid PS workers about cuts, when they have not taken any themselves, certainly not to the extent of the PS, safe in the knowledge that if the PS worker defends themselves...the Private sector worker can reply with blood curdling cries of "job cuts....dole queues..40% drop in wages" when in fact, in many of these cases, none of it is relevant to them?

Is there?

30% of private sector was not affected – true
Tell to government/unions that 30% of public sector should not affected as well
For example propose 30% cuts above 40K, it will leave 30% of low income PS workers untouched