trigger mass emigration??

sadhbhc15

Following on from today's budget, do you think that the cuts made (particularly to the job seekers allowance) will trigger further emigration? I was just watching Prime Time, where it was claimed that the budget will do just that. So has anyone here finally been pushed into leaving this country?

omahaid

No more than what is already happening. All young people I know who cant get jobs have left already.

sadhbhc15

Yeah a lot of my friends have left too, but I know a few unemployed people who were on the brink of leaving before this budget, so I presume many of those people are now left with little reason to stay..

gandalf

Depends there have to be jobs to go to and a lot of places that we Irish have emigrated to in the past do not have jobs available at the moment. I don't think PS workers will be leaving in droves in a lot of cases they are still paid more than their equivalent jobs in other EU countries.

The people who will be leaving are the newly graduated University years or the unemployed with skills that are in demand in other economies. People in reality a so-called "knowledge economy" like ours can ill afford to lose.

Alessandra

Of my class in college, most are gone back to study masters because of lack of work(and admittedly no better off after masters) and the rest are travelling. I'm doing a post-grad abroad. Many people who didn't go to college have also left my home town town and as the jobs dwindle I've met loads more who are planning to leave Ireland.

Mr Yellow

Emigration is abundant as is, those that had the cash, means & qualification are already gone. Who can blame a person for wanting a life..

Like Alessandra stated, people returned to uni / college etc for further education as no other options existed. These people will qualify & guess what...There will be No jobs for them STILL so these even more educated people will be leaving Ireland in droves.
This country has far from seen the worst yet in my opin.

andrewdeerpark

Emigrate to where?

Canada & Australia - closed borders that pick and choose as needed plus employment opportunities not an absolute land of milk and honey.

US - disaster zone, immigration impossible, job situation as bad a here, no social floor

Britian - almost as bad as here, a few jobs on the London olympics

Nordic - some jobs in tech and oil

Middle East - screwed still some opportunities in Abu Dhabi Dubai sunk

Western Europe - a mixed bag with some jobs in Holland, Spain disaster, France long term issues, Germany never an Irish emmigration country

Eastern Europe - Poland not booming as claimed know a few who went home and came back to Ireland, desperate wages. Czech same, rest a disaster ....

Asia - some skilled jobs in tech language issues

The old emmigration pressure valve is just not their for unskilled labour there is a Global downturn.

dustyrip

Yeah I am moving to London at the end of January, can't see Ireland picking up for the next ten years.

Dannyboy83

It would be useful to consider the emigration levels in countries which compete with Ireland, such as the UK.


http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=260

The number of people leaving the UK for 12 months or more reached a record high in 2008, with an estimated 427,000 people emigrating. This was up from 341,000 in 2007 and 398,000 in 2006. This rise was as a result of a 50 per cent increase in
non-British citizens emigrating from 169,000 in 2007 to 255,000 in 2008. Just over half of the 86,000 increase were citizens of the
A8 Accession countries which joined the EU in 2004.

An estimated 590,000 people arrived to live in the UK in 2008, the second highest figure on record after 596,000 in 2006. This compared with 574,000 in 2007 and represents a continuation of the level of immigration seen since 2004. Of all immigrants 505,000 (86 per cent) were non-British citizens in 2008.

Net migration, the difference between immigration and emigration, decreased from 233,000 in 2007 to 163,000 as a result of increased emigration.

There has been a large increase in the number of people emigrating for work related reasons, particularly those with a definite job to go to. In 2008 an estimated 136,000 people emigrated from the UK to take up a definite job, compared with 100,000 in 2007.

The International Passenger Survey (IPS) is the main component of these Long-Term International Migration estimates. IPS estimates allow a more detailed analysis of the characteristics of international migrants. This reveals that the increase in emigration of non-British citizens was most notable in the 25 to 44 age group, consistent with higher numbers of people emigrating for work related reasons. The IPS shows an increase in the number of non-British citizens leaving the UK to take up a definite job – up from 45,000 in 2007 to 62,000 in 2008.
IPS estimates also show that Poland was the most popular country of next residence for non-British emigrants in 2008, with 50,000 people migrating there.

dustyrip

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

It would be useful to consider the emigration levels in countries which compete with Ireland, such as the UK.

Yeah, but I have already done my UK tax exams and am waiting on my results. The way I am looking at it is there is bound to be a more realistic chance of getting 'decent' work over the coming years in England than in Ireland. The companies I want to work in here(Ireland) are having a recruitment freeze and are letting staff go.

Its worth a go and if worst comes to worse I will come home and try and get a Job in Belfast. I lived in London for a few months and have my National Insurance number, bank account set up etc..

It would be interesting to see the calibre of the person emigrating from England, I would say a vast quantity of them are from Pakistan etc.. who will always find it very difficult to get work no matter if England is in a recession or not.

imeddyhobbs

Go north,Thats where the civil service go,There must be something up there.

cson

Very much doubt it.

As has been mentioned above; there is effectively nowhere to go to.

koHd

If you do leave you'll be doing well to land in a country you'll be better off in. There's problems everywhere.

dustyrip

Well it has to be better than what I am at these days. Online until 6 or so in the morning. Sleep in late. Try and get work to no avail then Gym and then back online.

I got six job rejections last week, five in one day - its hard to stay positive. I can't bring myself to work menial jobs either, might have to bite the bullet in that regard two, but there is not even many of those jobs either these days. Am only 23 and I don't want to fall into the forgotten decade which will happen here.

cson

dustyrip wrote: »

I can't bring myself to work menial jobs either, might have to bite the bullet in that regard two, but there is not even many of those jobs either these days.

Don't mean to sound harsh but thats a **** or get off the pot scenario. Tough it out with the menial job in the hope things come good or take a chance and go abroad. The longer you procrastinate about it the less it'll be in your hands.

dustyrip

cson wrote: »

Don't mean to sound harsh but thats a **** or get off the pot scenario. Tough it out with the menial job in the hope things come good or take a chance and go abroad. The longer you procrastinate about it the less it'll be in your hands.

I will be going abroad if I get my exams. I don't think with a degree and 2 years of studying for professional exams I should be asking someone whether they would like their sandwich cut in half. I would find it very hard to do menial jobs, but it might have to be the case for a while. As I said these Jobs aren't easy to come by either. If you see a shop advertising let me know...

TCP/IP_King

dustyrip wrote: »

Well it has to be better than what I am at these days. Online until 6 or so in the morning. Sleep in late. Try and get work to no avail then Gym and then back online.

I got six job rejections last week, five in one day - its hard to stay positive. I can't bring myself to work menial jobs either, might have to bite the bullet in that regard two, but there is not even many of those jobs either these days. Am only 23 and I don't want to fall into the forgotten decade which will happen here.

In 1984 I had 26 rejections over an 8 week period. These were the ones that bothered to reply out of 50 or so requests all nicely typewritten. One person replied on my own letter with all of the grammar mistakes corrected.

I saved each of those rejections, and I'm glad I did.

It was a useful a reminder of how things used to be in Ireland in that half forgotten time.

tudlytops

This isn't the first recession know to human kind, it will get better, and people will recover.

tudlytops

dustyrip wrote: »

I will be going abroad if I get my exams. I don't think with a degree and 2 years of studying for professional exams I should be asking someone whether they would like their sandwich cut in half. I would find it very hard to do menial jobs, but it might have to be the case for a while. As I said these Jobs aren't easy to come by either. If you see a shop advertising let me know...

I'm a Financial Analyst with all the lovely degrees to go with it, but I was once a cleaner, that's how it goes, you do what you have to.

dustyrip

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

In 1984 I had 26 rejections over an 8 week period. These were the ones that bothered to reply out of 50 or so requests all nicely typewritten. One person replied on my own letter with all of the grammar mistakes corrected.

I saved each of those rejections, and I'm glad I did.

It was a useful a reminder of how things used to be in Ireland in that half forgotten time.

If I am honest I didn't appreciate my job which I had when I came out of college as life was going two handy for me, i.e. I just walked into a decent job.

If I get a job in the future I will be a better employee and I have defiently grown up a lot in the past year over the whole recession/world crisis/loosing job etc. Its given me a better value for money anyway.

All my rejections are coming via email so they will be easier to save!! I know some companies aren't even hiring so I am not going to be two hard on myself..very boring being out of work though.

Zambia

I agree with Gandalf and others.

Having Migrated I know its not just a case of getting the boat anymore. During the gap in recessions countries like India started upskilling. There is a huge amount of people out there with the ability to work anywhere.

Emigration is not the pressure valve is was in the 1980's. Plus in a Knowledge based economy which is the only hope we have left, we cant afford to lose the people we spent so much training.

blackmoustache

Seriously thinking of getting out of the country for a bit. I'm just out of college and there's nothing. I'm sick of being skint all the time. The dole is just enough to get by on and I really pity anyone trying to look after a family or pay a morgage on it. My brothers had to emigrate for a while in the early 90's before coming home and now they've both had to leave again. Never thought I'd have to seriously consider it myself. I'd gladly take a menial job if it could keep me at home near my girlfriend, friends and parents until things pick up. A mate of mine got work in London fairly easily so I might head there. Ryanair are going to make a killing. Bah.

Zambia

dustyrip wrote: »

I will be going abroad if I get my exams. I don't think with a degree and 2 years of studying for professional exams I should be asking someone whether they would like their sandwich cut in half.

You are right. Does not change the fact you will have to do it if nothing comes up.

OldJay

sadhbhc15 wrote: »

Following on from today's budget, do you think that the cuts made (particularly to the job seekers allowance) will trigger further emigration?

Not if there are jobs.

masteroftherealm

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Emigrate to where?

Canada & Australia - closed borders that pick and choose as needed plus employment opportunities not an absolute land of milk and honey.

I'm moving to Canada in '10, IT Professional, Qualified, 6 years experience, have had a few offers already.

gandalf

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I'm moving to Canada in '10, IT Professional, Qualified, 6 years experience, have had a few offers already.

Yep if you have the qualifications they are looking for Canada is a great place to go. I have friends who are married who moved there and are flourishing in Vancouver and love the place.

Good luck with the move (send a few bob home please !!!!).

andrewdeerpark

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I'm moving to Canada in '10, IT Professional, Qualified, 6 years experience, have had a few offers already.

Good for you, best of luck and keep us posted.

Hells Belle

We are heading to Australia hopefully next year, it has been one of the worst emotional rollercoasters we've been on and if we'd known what we would be put through we would have headed for Canada instead tbh. We've been in the system nearly 2 years now but we are finally being processed.

There's nothing here for us anymore and won't be for the forseeable future, also according to some on this forum we are sponges as my (skilled) partner can't get a job......we only want to work and have a decent life for our kids. We love Ireland and we'll miss our family but we know we've made the right decision.

Before anyone says "Australia are in a recession too etc etc" I'm fully aware of their situation and oh has a job waiting for him when we arrive. We are going to miss Ireland though, and family especially but my kids come first.

OldJay

I spent most of the last 22 years since I left school, living overseas. Greece, Israel, Aussie and Norway. All good and I'm the better for it, I'd say. Moved back here 4 years ago.
You'll be fine. Enjoy it. Make the most of it. Its not a prison sentence. Its a new start in a fine country.

Hells Belle

yes we are looking forward to it, its very scary to move lock stock to the other side of the planet but we both did whvs so we know what we are heading for.

I think a few years in sunny Queensland is just what the doctor ordered :cool:

tudlytops

masteroftherealm wrote: »

I'm moving to Canada in '10, IT Professional, Qualified, 6 years experience, have had a few offers already.

Best of luck

OldJay

Hells Belle wrote: »

yes we are looking forward to it, its very scary to move lock stock to the other side of the planet but we both did whvs so we know what we are heading for.

I think a few years in sunny Queensland is just what the doctor ordered :cool:

I was 7 years in Australia. Lived on Northern NSW coast (on the proper side of the NSW/QLD border ). Still own my house there so leaving wasn't so bad as I'll end up there in my later years, I'd say.

KTRIC

I've spent just over 2 years in Germany and due to move back to Dublin next week.

There are a huge amount of people that see other countries as having greener grass but don't cod yourself. Its not all as rosy as you might think. When it comes down to it every country has its problems, recession or not. Its going to be what you make it in the end.

Dai John

Question...why are so many young Irish leaving but not the east europeans, Nigerians etc ?

TheCandystripes

Dai John wrote: »

Question...why are so many young Irish leaving but not the east europeans, Nigerians etc ?

they have more loyalty to the country maby

not the answer you wanted :pac:

OldJay

Dai John wrote: »

Question...why are so many young Irish leaving but not the east europeans, Nigerians etc ?

Thats what is happening, is it? Are you sure? Really sure? Positive even?

Baltic and Eastern European immigrants, for example, are not declining in numbers and those already here are staying? And all the while, theis new phenomenon of "Young Irish" buggering off for ever and ever too . . .

fat__tony

Afternoon all.

My destination will be either Canada or Qatar.

Incidently, my potential employer have asked for me to move over to Doha immediately should they want to take me on, as in before Christmas!!!!

It sounds ridiculous and they'll be hard pressed to find anyone who'll do that.

It's a good opportunity though and I'd hate to think it'll fall flat on it's face because of this requirement.

Any advice would be great, Cheers.

Barracudaincork

Dai John wrote: »

Question...why are so many young Irish leaving but not the east europeans, Nigerians etc ?

How come you didnt ask why not the western europeans, americans, canadians, australians, south africans etc ?

lee_

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Emigrate to where?

Canada & Australia - closed borders that pick and choose as needed plus employment opportunities not an absolute land of milk and honey.

US - disaster zone, immigration impossible, job situation as bad a here, no social floor

Britian - almost as bad as here, a few jobs on the London olympics

Nordic - some jobs in tech and oil

Middle East - screwed still some opportunities in Abu Dhabi Dubai sunk

Western Europe - a mixed bag with some jobs in Holland, Spain disaster, France long term issues, Germany never an Irish emmigration country

Eastern Europe - Poland not booming as claimed know a few who went home and came back to Ireland, desperate wages. Czech same, rest a disaster ....

Asia - some skilled jobs in tech language issues

The old emmigration pressure valve is just not their for unskilled labour there is a Global downturn.

Interesting brief concise World overview;

Good work

neilthefunkeone

sadhbhc15 wrote: »

Following on from today's budget, do you think that the cuts made (particularly to the job seekers allowance) will trigger further emigration? I was just watching Prime Time, where it was claimed that the budget will do just that. So has anyone here finally been pushed into leaving this country?

If they can afford to leave the country with enough money for set up costs, flights, visa's etc then they have enough savings to last them awhile staying in Ireland...

When i went to Canada last year cost me over 2,500 for visa's flights' first month accom and looking for a job...

OldJay

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Emigrate to where?

Canada & Australia - closed borders that pick and choose as needed plus employment opportunities not an absolute land of milk and honey.

US - disaster zone, immigration impossible, job situation as bad a here, no social floor

Britian - almost as bad as here, a few jobs on the London olympics

Nordic - some jobs in tech and oil

Middle East - screwed still some opportunities in Abu Dhabi Dubai sunk

Western Europe - a mixed bag with some jobs in Holland, Spain disaster, France long term issues, Germany never an Irish emmigration country

Eastern Europe - Poland not booming as claimed know a few who went home and came back to Ireland, desperate wages. Czech same, rest a disaster ....

Asia - some skilled jobs in tech language issues

You forgot . . .
"Ireland - Dairy farming and Irish dancing lessons" :rolleyes:

neilthefunkeone

dustyrip wrote: »

I should be asking someone whether they would like their sandwich cut in half. I would find it very hard to do menial jobs, but it might have to be the case for a while. As I said these Jobs aren't easy to come by either. If you see a shop advertising let me know...

Take what you can get.. At least your working and thinks it stands to you better on your CV..

When i came back from travelling there were no jobs.. I finally managed to pick up some part time hours in Tesco.. grin and bared it for 3 months kept applying for jobs.. Bam now a network engineer...

Although when i was in Tesco i was taking home less than the dole.. but felt better and more positive about myself and situations..

fat__tony

neilthefunkeone wrote: »

Take what you can get.. At least your working and thinks it stands to you better on your CV..

When i came back from travelling there were no jobs.. I finally managed to pick up some part time hours in Tesco.. grin and bared it for 3 months kept applying for jobs.. Bam now a network engineer...

Although when i was in Tesco i was taking home less than the dole.. but felt better and more positive about myself and situations..

Getting part time work in Tesco nowadays is pretty much impossible.

For example,I applied for part-time Christmas positions in Gamestop and HMV, rejected for both of them, overqualified.

Sleepy

I've already had to leave for the short term. There's work in the UK if you've got some experience.

Would I make the move long-term? Well, there's definitely demand over here for my skillset and some parts of the UK are quite nice but my family situation at home just doesn't give me the freedom to do this long-term.

dustyrip

dustyrip wrote: »

It would be interesting to see the calibre of the person emigrating from England, I would say a vast quantity of them are from Pakistan etc.. who will always find it very difficult to get work no matter if England is in a recession or not.

Narrow minded anyone :rolleyes:

Kalashnikov_Kid

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Britian - almost as bad as here, a few jobs on the London olympics

I spent a grand total of 2 weeks unemployed here this September and now have 2 jobs. Plenty of jobs in the South East if you are open-minded and motivated - maybe not graduate specific but still jobs. There's a shortage of bar managers all across London (not what I work at though). Whereas last time I was home I could literally count the number of all jobs in the local paper - and most of those were probably taken already.

onedoubleo

England at the moment has jobs going, many are just child minding and building but one of the main differences over there is that there is an unimaginable amount of part time courses that can be done so that when/if the good times return they will have the skilled workforce needed.
Here there is nowhere near the level of support for unemployed. I bet there are people on the dole now who have massive experience that could be using it to teach others so they 1) don't get bored and despondent and 2) pass on a skill

greengrocer

dustyrip wrote: »

If I am honest I didn't appreciate my job which I had when I came out of college as life was going two handy for me, i.e. I just walked into a decent job.

If I get a job in the future I will be a better employee and I have defiently grown up a lot in the past year over the whole recession/world crisis/loosing job etc. Its given me a better value for money anyway.

All my rejections are coming via email so they will be easier to save!! I know some companies aren't even hiring so I am not going to be two hard on myself..very boring being out of work though.

I may come across as an a**hole, but as someone who plays an active role in recruitment, I would like to give some constructive criticism.

1) I would hope your CV and cover letters are better constructed than your posts. Spelling and grammatical errors put you on the back foot instantly.
2) Don't hang around and wait for a rejection e-mail to eventually come your way. Once your application is in, put a call into the company and try whatever it takes to get talking to the relevant person (and go as far up the food chain as possible). It's tough times for job-hunters, so employers are looking for hunger and resourcefulness as a minimum. If they aren't going to have you in for interview, let the MD or HR manager explain why over the phone instead of receiving the generic e-mail.

My company is currently looking to fill a solitary (well-paid) graduate position and I'm bemused at the lack of hunger and preparation shown by candidates. The presentation of most CVs has been poor to say the least and nobody follows up with a call.

I don't enjoy saying this about my own generation, but I think we're soft and this reality shock was badly needed.

If the Irish market genuinely presents no opportunities for you, then assess your options within the single European labour market and beyond. While the present jobs situation is bleak worldwide, don't resign yourself to a bleak future. The combination of ambition, enthusiasm, fluent English and Irish charm should get your foot in a lot of doors. The Irish social welfare system remains generous IMHO, so take advantage - learn a language, hone your existing skills, do whatever is required. Just don't stay idle.

It's time for this generation to show some strength of character!

Best of Luck!

Sinall

I am leaving Ireland on 1 January, I have very fortunately been offered a good job in London. My decision had been made and flight booked before the budget.

SeaFields

greengrocer wrote: »

I'm bemused at the lack of hunger and preparation shown by candidates. The presentation of most CVs has been poor to say the least and nobody follows up with a call.


It's time for this generation to show some strength of character!

Sound words of advice greengrocer but repeatedly being rejected after dozens of job applications is going to take its motivational toll on almost anyone.

TheCandystripes

i imagine london is just like paris in that the activity is so great a downturn may not be that noticeable. i read new york was bucking the trend and hadnt experienced that much of a dowturn. the common theme all massive cities.