Muzzles and the restricted breeds act

FunkyMissMonkey

My girlfriend and I are seriously considering rescuing an older dog, and have our hearts set on a Staffy. My mother in law recently rescued one (she lives over in the UK) and she's the most charming, gentle dog either of us have ever met. From everything I've read, this is typical of the breed!

We've done our reading, and realise that any dog of this breed, would need to be muzzled in public, but both of us have an issue with those big, bulky plastic muzzles! I'm sure it causes people to be more cautious of your dog, but anyway. Would a nylon halti-type collar suffice for the muzzle requirement?

Many thanks for any help, we want to know what to expect, and what's required of us, before we make any big decisions!

Whispered

As far as I am aware, a halti is accepted as a muzzle. Thats what I use anyway and have never been questioned.

They are a fabulous dog. good choice and well done for considering a rescue. There is a user on here who does great work with bull breeds, she also rehomes. I would suggest going through a rescue as opposed to a pound so that you know the dog you would be getting has been assessed by someone who knows what they are doing.

(just waiting now for the usual comments made when it comes to threads about these dogs)

andreac

I own a rottie and have never muzzled him, ever.

I use the dogmatic headcollar as its much better than the normal halti so yes i would use that instead of those horrible muzzles.

Top Dog

FunkyMissMonkey wrote: »

We've done our reading, and realise that any dog of this breed, would need to be muzzled in public, but both of us have an issue with those big, bulky plastic muzzles! I'm sure it causes people to be more cautious of your dog, but anyway. Would a nylon halti-type collar suffice for the muzzle requirement?

Many thanks for any help, we want to know what to expect, and what's required of us, before we make any big decisions!

I see you're based in Cork. I've asked a couple of the dog wardens in the area about the use of Halti's/Dogmatic/etc as a substitute for the horrific looking basket muzzles - and both of them said that they'd have no issue at all with them being used. Once the dog was under effective control then work away with the halti or whichever you prefer.

Just note that they could deny all knowledge of having said this, but that was their opinion when I approached them with a Rottie wearing a halti

FunkyMissMonkey

We've actually spotted a beautiful staffy on the DiD site today. :rolleyes: So we'd be definitely going through a rescue where possible.

Great to hear that the halti or similar is going to be enough to satisfy the requirements though, I was dreading having to use a full plastic muzzle!

I don't want to stir up any anti-bull breed issues. I've known a fair number of bull breeds and other so-called dangerous and restricted breeds, both here and back home in the UK, and all of them have been big softies. The only dog I've ever been scared of was my aunt's spaniel, but I was about 5 back then, and it jumped up at me and knocked me flat over!

FunkyMissMonkey

Top Dog wrote: »

I see you're based in Cork. I've asked a couple of the dog wardens in the area about the use of Halti's/Dogmatic/etc as a substitute for the horrific looking basket muzzles - and both of them said that they'd have no issue at all with them being used. Once the dog was under effective control then work away with the halti or whichever you prefer.

Just note that they could deny all knowledge of having said this, but that was their opinion when I approached them with a Rottie wearing a halti

Good news, thanks for that!

Whispered

Good luck OP keep us updated on your progress with the adoption. And post pics when you get your dog!

cianer

Am I right in saying that the muzzle law is only enforceable by gardai and not the wardens?
I was told that although the dog wardens can tell you that you should have one on your dog they can't do anything about it, only a guard can. Something to do with the type of law it is. Most guards don't seem to care as long as the dog (any dog breed) isn't a public hazard

steamjetjoe

andreac wrote: »

I own a rottie and have never muzzled him, ever.

I use the dogmatic headcollar as its much better than the normal halti so yes i would use that instead of those horrible muzzles.

Is it possible for a dog to back out of this collar, Or is it secured in such a way tht the dog could not shake, roll or jump himself loose.

DBCyc

cianer wrote: »

Most guards don't seem to care as long as the dog (any dog breed) isn't a public hazard

I think that you are right there. The Gardaí seem to use common sense in enforcing this law.

kildara

steamjetjoe wrote: »

Is it possible for a dog to back out of this collar, Or is it secured in such a way tht the dog could not shake, roll or jump himself loose.

They can't back out of it. Even if they do, you have the other end of the lead (it should be used with a training lead) secured to their collar so that will hold him/her.

FunkyMissMonkey

helena.ryan wrote: »

Good luck OP keep us updated on your progress with the adoption. And post pics when you get your dog!

We've cleared it with our landlord. We've spoken to the cats and got their, if not approval, well, they'll cope I'm sure! We've made enquiries with DiD regarding a dog we're interested in, just waiting to hear about cat suitability, and then home check.

Having talked about getting a dog for so many years, it's exciting to finally be starting the process!

Top Dog

FunkyMissMonkey wrote: »

Having talked about getting a dog for so many years, it's exciting to finally be starting the process!

Congratulations and the very best of luck!

gypsygirl

cianer wrote: »

Most guards don't seem to care as long as the dog (any dog breed) isn't a public hazard

Most Guards do use common sense, I recently had a Guarda car pass me by three times while I was walking my German Shepherd and Doberman, obviously observing my dogs, both of my dogs were unmuzzled, they then stopped the car and called me over to admire my dogs and ask if the dogs were licensed, and complimented me on how well behaved both dogs were. I have a rottie pup now too and she's so friendly and playful, shows no signs of needing a muzzle, I take her to dog parks at least twice a week to socialise her and today she was scared by a tiny terrier, Lol. Not all big dogs are aggressive, it depends on how they are raised.

dublindogcare

great breed to get , lovely dogs.

Not going to go into the restricted breeds debate etc and think its very funny that the gardai called over the rottie and dober to comment on how well behaved they were !

As you know these laws are not enforced until something goes wrong ! - or at least someone says somethings gone wrong! so just be a little cautious of the fact as unfortunitly people do see these breeds out walking and are automatically a little more cautious about them.

with regards to the law; your staff will need to be on lead, with muzzle at all times in public (and with someone over the age of 16).

enjoy , and the best of look in finding the perfect one !

Paul91

dublindogcare wrote: »

your staff will need to be on lead

lead has to be 2m or less also - no extendable leads at 5m then (yes i know i am picky)

Discodog

helena.ryan wrote: »

There is a user on here who does great work with bull breeds, she also rehomes. I would suggest going through a rescue as opposed to a pound so that you know the dog you would be getting has been assessed by someone who knows what they are doing.

(just waiting now for the usual comments made when it comes to threads about these dogs)

http://www.egar.org/ Speak to Sarah. No one has as much expertise & experience with Bull Breeds. You can also PM her here, user name EGAR.

Daisy Stringer

Congratulations on choosing a staffie, they really are a dream dog, I've had 3 rescues myself and I would never consider having another breed ever again.

I would suggest that you meet your prospective dog at least once before making a decision. Insist on seeing them around other dogs (and people). Watch out not only for aggressive/dominant behavior, but also for excessively fearful traits, which may lead to even greater problems later on.

I was pulled by the local dog warden on Monday for walking my staffie (on a short lead) without a muzzle. It was close to my home, so I invited him in. We have a dog licence, ID tag, she is neutered and micro-chipped so all in order except the muzzle. He took our details and told us to expect a letter from our local authority and to get a muzzle. He emphasised that A HALTI IS NOT ACCEPTABLE as it does not prevent a dog from biting.

We visited the vet today to have a muzzle fitted. The staff and customers (with their animals) were highly indignant that such a placid and friendly dog was visiting for this reason. It was difficult to find one that fitted correctly and she was not a bit happy with the restriction. The vet even went so far as to say that the muzzle might end up MAKING her aggressive. We will keep trying, hopefully if she associates it with the walk she might get used to it.

This is my first time in 10 years of walking Staffordshire Bull Terriers that I have been asked to apply a muzzle. My question is this: if we are found again without a muzzle, what is the penalty? Can my dog be taken from me? Can I be arrested??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am finding it very difficult to ascertain the exact legal position.

CreedonsDogDayc

Daisy Stringer wrote: »

This is my first time in 10 years of walking Staffordshire Bull Terriers that I have been asked to apply a muzzle. My question is this: if we are found again without a muzzle, what is the penalty? Can my dog be taken from me? Can I be arrested??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am finding it very difficult to ascertain the exact legal position.

I absolutely despise this like! you have a well behaved, well loved family pet that's fantastically looked after, and now you have to muzzle it!!!!
My parents have a little jack russell, and she can be nippy when your leaving the house (sometimes trys to pull you back in, doesnt touch skin but could scare a child). In my experience its the little terriers that are much more likely to snap, but now your dog is being muzzled and nothings been done about the real offenders

The laws in this country are ridiculous, and obviously made up by people who know nothing about dogs.

What I hate most about your post is the fact that this dog is obviously a fine example of the breed, and now when people see her approaching with a muzzle on they will make immediate incorrect assumptions straight away!

lrushe

Rightly or wrongly I absoluately refuse to muzzle my Rottie. I haven't spent years trying to find a reputable breeder and then months of my own blood, sweat and tears not to mention money training and socialising my dog and making her into a good dog citizen just to give into the Rottweiler sterotype and put a muzzle on her. She is better behaved and more obedient than 80% of dogs I see out and about and ironically often the most obedient dogs I do see are on the restricted breed list as owners feel the same as I do and feel like their dogs has to better behaved than other dogs just to be on par with them, its really frustrating!

ISDW

My brother lived in Germany for a while and they have a rottie. If I remember rightly, and please correct me if I'm wrong, certain breeds there also have to wear a muzzle etc, but you can get your dog temperament tested and then they don't have to. Max their rottie passed with flying colours, but they would still walk him in a red halti, which showed up against his face as they would get regular abuse for him not being muzzled from members of the public.

Lauragoesmad

Did you get a staffie? Pics please!

lrushe

ISDW wrote: »

certain breeds there also have to wear a muzzle etc, but you can get your dog temperament tested and then they don't have to.

Interesting idea, I'd have no problem putting Brook up for something like this, I am fully confident she would passed with flying colours also

DBCyc

CreedonsDogDayc wrote: »

The laws in this country are ridiculous, and obviously made up by people who know nothing about dogs.

lrushe wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly I absoluately refuse to muzzle my Rottie.

I totally agree. The laws have been introduced here as a knee jerk reaction to some unfortunate incidents that were pounced upon by sensationalist journalists.

I refuse to muzzle my staffy too as she would never be a threat to any other dog or person.

However, if she was aggressive, I would have no issue with muzzling her, no matter what breed she is

Daisy Stringer

Thank you all for your support. I am still trying to find out the consequences if I am caught out again without a muzzle after receiving my first warning from the warden. The official letter from our local authority still has not arrived.

If anybody knows what the next step is, I would be grateful if you could post it here or send me a message.

EGAR

A breach of any of the provisions of the 1986 Act on summary conviction can result in a fine not exceeding £1000 or possibly to a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months or both, See Section 27 (as amended by section 9 of the 1992 Act).

THAT is what happens if you breach the control of dogs act which also includes the restricted breeds act. Your dog can be seized and destroyed. It has happened before.

seamus

EGAR wrote: »

A breach of any of the provisions of the 1986 Act on summary conviction can result in a fine not exceeding £1000 or possibly to a term of imprisonment not exceeding three months or both, See Section 27 (as amended by section 9 of the 1992 Act).

THAT is what happens if you breach the control of dogs act which also includes the restricted breeds act. Your dog can be seized and destroyed. It has happened before.

The dog can only be destroyed if the warden can satisfy a court that it has injured someone or damaged property, which automatically gets it classed as "dangerous" and therefore can be destroyed.

However, yes, the warden can confiscate your dog for an indefinite period "to deteremine if an offence has been committed", and a judge is likely to be less and less lenient with you if you keep presenting at court with the same offence.

That said, I don't muzzle my staffie in public and it's never been an issue. Very occasionally people will notice she's a staffy, but by and large people are only aware of "restricted" breeds when they spot them in public with a muzzle on. Most people who can spot a staffy are aware of how gentle they are. Rottie and GSD owners aren't so lucky because your average idiot knows what those breeds look like. Wearing a muzzle will make other people more afraid of your dog. You can get muzzles which aren't *full* muzzles (i.e. covering the nose), but are about an inch thick. These are more comfortable and won't stop the dog from opening its mouth, but will stop it opening the mouth enough to inflict abite.

EGAR

It depends in what area you are, in some it's enforced in others it isnt.

I was involved in 4 cases in the past 10 years in which dogs whom the owners refused to muzzle were seized by Gardai and dogwarden. None of these dogs were aggressive, yet their owners refusal ended in 3 being pts and the 4th ending up here at my rescue. I am involved with BSL, DDA and whatever name you want to give it internationally for well over 2 decades. When it comes to so-called *dangerous* breeds the law is a law unto itself.

FunkyMissMonkey

Lauragoesmad wrote: »

Did you get a staffie? Pics please!

We did!



This is Ruby.


and Lillie.

More on topic - we're really struggling to find suitable muzzles for them. As they're still fairly young, the ones designed for staffies (with the fairly narrow bands that go over the top) are far too big. With the smaller sizes however, the top nose band is too deep for their short muzzles, and basically covers their eyes.

Any advice?

crotalus667

Have you tried the metal ones they look lose and the strap goes over the top of the head and around the side ,

Blogger50

FunkyMissMonkey wrote: »

We did!



This is Ruby.


and Lillie.

More on topic - we're really struggling to find suitable muzzles for them. As they're still fairly young, the ones designed for staffies (with the fairly narrow bands that go over the top) are far too big. With the smaller sizes however, the top nose band is too deep for their short muzzles, and basically covers their eyes.

Any advice?

Sorry I cant help with the muzzle question as I'm only a learner myself but just wanted to say they're beautiful

seamus

Gorgeous pups, you'll have your hands full, that's for sure.

Graces7

I am puzzled.

Reading various thread I gather GSDs are "restricted"?

We know one well that is at a cash and carry place. Huge dog. But as gentle as they come.

On the first visit there I was worried but was assured he was fine and he is a dote.

He runs loose there and there is no gate to the road and he certainly is not muzzled.

crotalus667

Graces7 wrote: »

I am puzzled.

Reading various thread I gather GSDs are "restricted"?

We know one well that is at a cash and carry place. Huge dog. But as gentle as they come.

On the first visit there I was worried but was assured he was fine and he is a dote.

He runs loose there and there is no gate to the road and he certainly is not muzzled.

From my experience most people don’t take much notice of the law regarding the restricted breeds list and the gaurds don’t seem to either unless some thing goes wrong , the real problem starts when something happens , for example say your un-muzzled restricted breed dog is set upon by a lab your dog will automatically be in the wrong

DBCyc

@FunkyMissMonkey - they are little stunners. Best of luck with them! My vet told me before that its quite hard to get muzzles to fit staffies properly and that he totally disagreed with them unless the dog was agressive. I tend to trust the experts rather than a dog warden when it comes to my pets well-being.

If you really feel you should use muzzles, go for a halti I reckon.

FunkyMissMonkey

seamus wrote: »

Gorgeous pups, you'll have your hands full, that's for sure.

I certainly do! Wouldn't be without them now though, the house would be strange and quiet!

As for the muzzles, we went with halti's in the end, as nothing else would fit properly. We were headed to the beach on a sunny weekend day, and the last thing we wanted was a fine or a telling off.

Lillie can also get a bit nippy if she gets over excited (new people saying hello, for example), which we're working hard to train out of her, but I was being overly cautious.

Trying to get them to ignore the halti is something else though. :rolleyes: Ruby stopped dead, and put her nose on the floor.

GalwayKiefer

Halti's are not meant for long-term use though, they're just a training aid. If either of your dogs does lunge (for whatever reason) then the Halti is going to snap their neck to the side which is going to hurt them quite a bit.

bl8ckh8art

lrushe wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly I absoluately refuse to muzzle my Rottie. I haven't spent years trying to find a reputable breeder and then months of my own blood, sweat and tears not to mention money training and socialising my dog and making her into a good dog citizen just to give into the Rottweiler sterotype and put a muzzle on her. She is better behaved and more obedient than 80% of dogs I see out and about and ironically often the most obedient dogs I do see are on the restricted breed list as owners feel the same as I do and feel like their dogs has to better behaved than other dogs just to be on par with them, its really frustrating!

Dude, I know what you mean. The ONLY reason I muzzle my 3 year old bitch is because the guards stopped me out walking her and gave me some line that I could blah blah blah if I didn't muzzle her. And yet they stopped me four more times since then and she was muzzled. It's harassment from the guards, plain and simple. :mad: Idiot dog=idiot owner. Don't blame the poor dog who acts aggressive and attacks people, blame the owner too lazy to train and control them.

bl8ckh8art

lrushe wrote: »

Rightly or wrongly I absoluately refuse to muzzle my Rottie. I haven't spent years trying to find a reputable breeder and then months of my own blood, sweat and tears not to mention money training and socialising my dog and making her into a good dog citizen just to give into the Rottweiler sterotype and put a muzzle on her. She is better behaved and more obedient than 80% of dogs I see out and about and ironically often the most obedient dogs I do see are on the restricted breed list as owners feel the same as I do and feel like their dogs has to better behaved than other dogs just to be on par with them, its really frustrating!

Dude, I know what you mean. The ONLY reason I muzzle my 3 year old bitch is because the guards stopped me out walking her and gave me some line that I could blah blah blah if I didn't muzzle her. And yet they stopped me four more times since then and she was muzzled. It's harassment from the guards, plain and simple. :mad: Idiot dog=idiot owner. Don't blame the poor dog who acts aggressive and attacks people, blame the owner too lazy to train and control them.

bl8ckh8art

The ONLY reason I muzzle my 3 year old rottweiler is because the guards stopped me out walking her and gave me some line that I could blah blah blah if I didn't muzzle her. And yet they stopped me four more times since then and she was muzzled. It's harassment from the guards, plain and simple. :mad: Idiot dog=idiot owner. Don't blame the poor dog who acts aggressive and attacks people, blame the owner too lazy to train and control them.

Gone With The W

This is my first time in 10 years of walking Staffordshire Bull Terriers that I have been asked to apply a muzzle. My question is this: if we are found again without a muzzle, what is the penalty? Can my dog be taken from me? Can I be arrested??? Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am finding it very difficult to ascertain the exact legal position.[/QUOTE]

About a month ago in my area there was a court case about a man walking his staffie without a muzzle and he got a 250 euro fine and a warning

bl8ckh8art

crotalus667 wrote: »

From my experience most people don’t take much notice of the law regarding the restricted breeds list and the gaurds don’t seem to either unless some thing goes wrong , the real problem starts when something happens , for example say your un-muzzled restricted breed dog is set upon by a lab your dog will automatically be in the wrong

You might want to rethink that idea. I've been stopped by the guarda:rolleyes: 4 times and my rottweiler has had a muzzle on her. The restricted dogs act is flawed. I think it should be revised that you have to have at least one brain cell to own any of the dogs on the restricted dogs list. Idiot owner=idiot dog. People who are too lazy to train dogs should not have them in the first place.

TaraR

I have 3 staffordshire bull terrier and a Pit Bull Terrier and at first i didnt muzzle them when out walking but i got stopped by the garda & they asked me to produce my dog licences for them ( at the time i didnt have them either so i rang the garda station & the woman on the phone told me not to bother) but i went out & bought them anyways,and muzzles.

i dont always put them on as we go to a field with them & they are harmless. But ive started to take my pitty to 'Bully Walks ' In the phoenix park and i do put it on then

FunkyMissMonkey

GalKiefer wrote: »

Halti's are not meant for long-term use though, they're just a training aid. If either of your dogs does lunge (for whatever reason) then the Halti is going to snap their neck to the side which is going to hurt them quite a bit.

I don't plan to use them long term. Simply until they grow into a regular muzzle.

It is a real shame that it's required, but the misguided law sadly is the law. Getting them ready for a walk sometimes feels like it takes longer than the walk itself once we're all kitted up!!

jjjade

FunkyMissMonkey wrote: »

We did!



This is Ruby.


and Lillie.

More on topic - we're really struggling to find suitable muzzles for them. As they're still fairly young, the ones designed for staffies (with the fairly narrow bands that go over the top) are far too big. With the smaller sizes however, the top nose band is too deep for their short muzzles, and basically covers their eyes.

Any advice?

congradulations on your staffys!!! they are fabulous!!!! my sister has two and my mother has one they are fantastic dogs great family dog!!! really loveable. my mother always had a staffy as a dog and never had a muzzle on them and my sisters two are the same. think the general public are ok with this and dont even notice but you always get one!!!

my brother had a male staffy and we brought it down to the park. the dog was one at the time and loved bouncing on anyone for attention. we were walking anyway and didnt my brother let go of the lead by accident and the dog ran a couple of meters to this couple and started jumping up on them for love. but can understand the size and build and not knowing the dog might make you freak out. the lady started screaming 'wolf' literally!!! i shouldn't be laughing but it is funny how does it look like a wolf!!!

imokyrok

I've been trying to get a rescue dog I've just gotten to use a Halti. He just shakes it of his muzzle every time. I've tried distracting him with treats etc but no joy. I'm keen to get him to accept the halti because many have said dog wardens etc are generally happy enough with it in place of a muzzle. He a rottie cross and a truly massive dog so I'm anxious not to draw adverse attention. If anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful.

Also my cats are well freaked out by his addition to the stable. One in particular won't come near the house and he's my favourite. Always sleeps on my bed and is very loving. Have others found that the cats do come around after a period of time?

andreac

imokyrok wrote: »

I've been trying to get a rescue dog I've just gotten to use a Halti. He just shakes it of his muzzle every time. I've tried distracting him with treats etc but no joy. I'm keen to get him to accept the halti because many have said dog wardens etc are generally happy enough with it in place of a muzzle. He a rottie cross and a truly massive dog so I'm anxious not to draw adverse attention. If anyone has any ideas I'd be grateful.

Also my cats are well freaked out by his addition to the stable. One in particular won't come near the house and he's my favourite. Always sleeps on my bed and is very loving. Have others found that the cats do come around after a period of time?

Trust me, it takes time. Ive a nearly 4 tear old rottie that still tries to get it off so he might never fully get used to it but tolerate it, lol.

Just try distracting him as much as possible. Use really tasty treats and when you put the halti on initially give him something nice so he assoc the halti with a treat.
It really just takes perseverance, time and being firm with them and correcting him when he tried to get it off. But it will take a few weeks to get sued to it but hang in there.

lrushe

I started using one on my Rottie when she was 9 months, she'll be 13 months tomorrow and she still hates it though she will begrudgingly wear it. For the first 5 mins or so of a walk she will throw her head and try to rub her face against my leg to try and get it off, it does make me feel guilty but its the lesser of two evils, she could be wearing a full muzzle. I generally try to walk at a fast pace in the way she has to concentrate on keeping up and not so much on what's on her face, it usually works and after 5 mins or so she is trotting along side me and has forgotten about the halti

belongtojazz

My Springer hates his halti and after 10 months he still tries to get it off. The funny thing though is that he is happy for me to put it on when we go for a walk :rolleyes:

morganafay

They're such pretty dogs

I'd say using a halti is fine, but if they do start to show any signs of aggression, like any dog, to use a proper basket muzzle, because a halti/head collar won't work properly. But if they're not aggressive and you don't get in trouble, then might aswell use a halti

LisaO

My boy (lab) is also not keen on his Halti & has been wearing it for a good while now. He does the face rubbing too! I try to start our walk with something fun, like fetching a ball, if possible, to take his attention away from it. Luckily, he is also easily distracted with edible goodies!