Water Charges

ro09

Did I hear something about water charges being introduced to every household. What a disgusting idea. The lowest of the low.

holdfast

Its a good idea, will bring an awareness of what people are using. It is in line with most EU countries. Everyone pays for water in a round about way through taxes but I would hope that this would allow for people to determine how much they pay.

Dulchie

Well we all know how short Ireland is of water:rolleyes:

holdfast

you ae right dulchie, I am going get a bucket and sell it by the gallon. The big R is over for me

nkay1985

Yeah preperations are being made to introduce it. The system will be that you pay for usage over a certain allocated amount which will be free.

No further details that I've seen yet.

zootroid

Dulchie wrote: »

Well we all know how short Ireland is of water:rolleyes:

Well Galway didn't even have clean drinking water a couple of years ago.

It's an essential resource, and as such measures should be taken to make sure it's used properly.

Yes, its another tax, and as such that's pretty sh*t, but if it will help change people's attitudes, then that can only be a good thing.

mmalaka

How they will know how much water I used? are they going to provide some kind of meters like the ESB meter? who will pay for those meters?

zootroid

mmalaka wrote: »

How they will know how much water I used? are they going to provide some kind of meters like the ESB meter? who will pay for those meters?

From what I heard, they will have to install a meter in every house. Consumer will probably pay, but it might be offset by a state contribution.

nesf

How it's going to work is:

You get a free allowance of water. You pay for any usage over this.

Hopefully the allowance will depend on number of residents and so on. We'll get more details over 2010 and probably see it introduced in the Budget next year.

johngalway

I find it shocking homeowners will have to pay for the muck, and that's what it is, that comes out of the taps in this area.

It should be based on quality of the supply, if it's fit for purpose then maybe, but it's certainly not that way now.

Thoie

zootroid wrote: »

From what I heard, they will have to install a meter in every house. Consumer will probably pay, but it might be offset by a state contribution.

Any ideas how it will work in apartment buildings?

kadafi006

paying for water is ridiculous. I would never do it.

kwalshe

That'll be me getting some rainwater storage tanks to flush the jacks so. Think about the amount of water you use every day on this.
I'm not paying to flush the **** out of my house

What the hell am I paying taxes for.? My water tastes like it even has more chlorine than my local pool. Paying for water.... idiots.

RGS

Some years ago this was looked at and the cost of installing meters in every house was over €1 Billion euro.

So to get people to pay for water an investment of €1 billion is needed before any income is generated.

Wheres this money coming from?

BroomBurner

Thoie wrote: »

Any ideas how it will work in apartment buildings?

They could do what they do in some places on the Continent. Water usage is predetermined and the cost divided equally to each apartment. At the end of the year, if the money paid is over, a rebate is given and divided equally. Similarly, if it is too little, everyone pays a little more.

Alternatively, they could place the metre at the main inlet pipe in to each apartment.

dvpower

Lenihan was on RTE earlier saying that the Dept. of the Environment were working with (I think he said) IBM trying to develop a cheap water meter.

wtf?

How much are we going to pay to store these water meters when we find out they don't work?

BroomBurner

dvpower wrote: »

Lenihan was on RTE earlier saying that the Dept. of the Environment were working with (I think he said) IBM trying to develop a cheap water meter.

wtf?

How much are we going to pay to store these water meters when we find out they don't work?

Did they already go through the tendering process with IBM so? :eek: That was quiet.

delos

While I see the green argument in this I wonder how much my family uses compared to the loss of clean water that leaks out of the system every day of the year? How will that be charged?

congo_90

This is absolute bo**ocks
What about people who have medical conditions requiring more water?
what about heating the house, flushing my morning dump? f*ck that. Let them try install a meter on my house. I am already conservative with my water and careful with it.

we've so much water that much of the south and midlands was 3 feet under it! When they provide proper eu standard water supply then i'll pay.

We're being fined by the eu for water waste in our supply. No don't fix the pipes. It's the publics fault. lets charge them for it :rolleyes:
I've lost my source for this sadly.

BroomBurner

delos wrote: »

While I see the green argument in this I wonder how much my family uses compared to the loss of clean water that leaks out of the system every day of the year? How will that be charged?

All the water pipes in the Dublin City Centre and the Greater Dublin Area (including Kildare, Wicklow, etc.) have been undergoing upgrades over the last few years. It's been quite a large and ongoing project.

Can't comment on outside that area, I'm afraid.

ardmacha

Why should water be free any more than electricity or heating oil? But of course people should be entitled to expect a proper potable supply for their fees. When water has a value there is a clear incentive to fix leaks so that you can sell it.

nkay1985

It's not a bad thing to encourage us to reduce water wastage but I thikn this will provoke anger when it's introduced. They allowed builders and developers away with not fitting dual flush toilets as standard while they built hundreds of thousands of homes. But now that they're all built, they're going to introduce a charge on water.

A lot will depend on what the free allocation is, I think.

Fighting Irish

RGS wrote: »

Some years ago this was looked at and the cost of installing meters in every house was over €1 Billion euro.

So to get people to pay for water an investment of €1 billion is needed before any income is generated.

Wheres this money coming from?

As far as i know water meters have been added to most new homes for years

westtip

ro09 wrote: »

Did I hear something about water charges being introduced to every household. What a disgusting idea. The lowest of the low.

Its called rates - do you think those pipes that supply your water miracously appear without someone paying for them.

Clean water costs money to be delivered. Start waking up to what the rest of the world do --- pay for services.

Son Of A Vidic

Since when did any Government gain ownership of Nature's natural resource?
The last time I checked it was still being produced by 'Mother nature'. Oh ya, we have to pay because it's expensive to provide the infrastructure to bring the water to us. Again, the last time I checked most of us have been paying taxes throughout our working lives - so therefore we have and are contributing towards the cost of this infrastructure. I better not mention that a lot of this 'infrastructure' especially in Dublin, was laid by the 'Brits'. Dublin wouldn't have a sewage system only for them. What's next? will Gormley and his Gombeens start measuring, weighing and taxing our Farts!:mad:

Ronan|Raven

Hello Ireland, welcome to most of Europe.

westtip

medicman2009 wrote: »

Since when did any Government gain ownership of Nature's natural resource?
The last time I checked it was still being produced by 'Mother nature'. Oh ya, we have to pay because it's expensive to provide the infrastructure to bring the water to us. Again, the last time I checked most of us have been paying taxes throughout our working lives - so therefore we have and are contributing towards the cost of this infrastructure. I better not mention that a lot of this 'infrastructure' especially in Dublin, was laid by the 'Brits'. Dublin wouldn't have a sewage system only for them. What's next? will Gormley and his Gombeens start measuring, weighing and taxing our Farts!:mad:

If you want to catch water in a bucket and use it free of charge great, if you want a clean reliable public water supply get used to paying for it. Re the infrastructure - yes cities like Dublin, Manchester, London, Leeds, Glasgow have victorian public sewage and water supply infrastructure - guess what it doesn't last forever.

WAKE UP and smell your own farts.

CamperMan

holdfast wrote: »

Its a good idea, will bring an awareness of what people are using. It is in line with most EU countries. Everyone pays for water in a round about way through taxes but I would hope that this would allow for people to determine how much they pay.

but what if you have your own private water supply and waste water treatment..??? are we also expected to pay water charges?,

caprilicious

Does anyone know if it would be chargeable in homes where you have your own water supply? or what way do they work it in other EU countries?

SoupyNorman

I have zero problem with paying for water but my willingness depends on the method of measurement. If the gov put the investment into the setting up of meters in EVERY home (including individual apartments) then I'm onboard.

The notion of charging apartment blocks in bulk does not fly with me.

Ronan|Raven

Are you drawing from a well on your own property? If so then you should be fine.

Mad_Max

No problem with it so long as EVERYONE pays once they pass the threshold and I include welfare families!

Ronan|Raven

I know around here in the wilds of County Roscommon they have meters installed in a lot of the towns and surrounding rural areas. We have had one installed near our mains pipe for nearly two years now . I would imagine a lot of other towns have them installed by now as well.

Thoie

I wonder will the allowance be per household or per person? Will single people start inviting their married friends around for showers at Christmas if they haven't used up their allowance?

Dyr

holdfast wrote: »

Its a good idea, will bring an awareness of what people are using. It is in line with most EU countries. Everyone pays for water in a round about way through taxes but I would hope that this would allow for people to determine how much they pay.

everyone pays for education but i don't have any kid's so why is'nt there a sprogg meter in place? Bringing charges in under the pretense that it's somehow fairer is bull, we'll be paying the same tax plus water charges.

Mad_Max

Bambi wrote: »

everyone pays for education but i don't have any kid's so why is'nt there a sprogg meter in place? Bringing charges in under the pretense that it's somehow fairer is bull, we'll be paying the same tax plus water charges.

Well if you stay under the allowance it won't cost anything. Provided of course they provide a sensible allowance. Not really holding my breath on it though.

Padraig Mor

mmalaka wrote: »

How they will know how much water I used? are they going to provide some kind of meters like the ESB meter? who will pay for those meters?

AFAIK most/all houses built in the last few years are required by planning permission to have a water meter. Mine has - and planning was granted in 1999 IIRC.

Padraig Mor

westtip wrote: »

Its called rates - do you think those pipes that supply your water miracously appear without someone paying for them.

Clean water costs money to be delivered. Start waking up to what the rest of the world do --- pay for services.

We already pay for the water supply through income tax. Water charges are not being introduced so that we pay for water - we are being asked to pay more than we already do.

lion_bar

We need to pay for our water to get our supplies up to a proper standard. The poor supply of water in Ireland (pressure & quality especially) has hindered investment.

lucernarian

It shows the amount of rural users on boards when only one poster has asked the question:

What about people with their own water supply?

These proposals by the Dublinite media talk about every household in the State as if we all live in a semi-d in Dundrum. Have there been *any* specifics mentioned about this proposal apart from some quoted statements by John Gormley? It truly crosses a line when the Govt would feel that a service which is 100% funded and serviced by the end user should be taxed. Why, because it is a natural resource and it's protected?? I thought that's what the septic tank "license" was supposed to do...


I also can't see the gain of having €1 billion taken out of the economy to bring about a mediocre amount of tax revenue along with just a couple of thousand jobs?

Thoie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

It shows the amount of rural users on boards when only one poster has asked the question:

What about people with their own water supply?

To be fair, a lot of rural dwellers are also on mains water. Of a handful of truly rural dwellers that I'm thinking of, 1 is on their own water supply, 1 has mains to the house, and their own water for elsewhere and the rest (about another 8) are on mains water - though some of those aren't on mains sewerage.

lucernarian

Statistics for this are hard, but where I live there are only a scattering of houses that have mains water but not sewerage treatment. More houses have both sewerage and mains, but the large majority of houses are on private schemes or a well between two neighbours etc.

In other rural places that I'm quite familiar with, it's a mixture of Group Water Schemes and well water.

I do feel the fact that some rural residents do get tax-funded water supplies doesn't justify that those who have fully funded it themselves have to be overlooked. I'm really just annoyed with RTÉ et al., not the good folks of boards;)

eigrod

What part of the property/house are these meters installed ?

Reason I ask is that we had serious subsidence problem under our 3 bed semi. Tests proved that there was "substantial leakage" from the drains that caused this problem.

Now I'm just curiuos to know would our problems have even been worse if we were metered in that would we have been paying for the vast amounts of water that was leaking (I'm sure thousands of houses must have leaking pipes beneath)

johnnyrotten

kadafi006 wrote: »

paying for water is ridiculous. I would never do it.

Oh yes you will

Thoie

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

I'm really just annoyed with RTÉ et al., not the good folks of boards;)

Well RTE has always been Dublin-centric

Water metering will be difficult to bring in "fairly". As an apartment dweller I don't particularly want to pay for other people's children to have baths, or to subsidise 6 people in a 3-bed apartment when I'm already careful with my water usage. I completely understand the perspective of someone who already has to pay for regular well inspections not wanting to metered.

There was a suggestion recently that people would have to pay an annual fee for septic tanks as well. If the county council are going to come out, inspect the tank and then certify it, all well and good. If you just have to randomly give them money for the septic tank you already pay to service - not so good.

lucernarian

Yes, I've shared my opinions on the septic tank licensing system before on boards. I feel very averse to it on the basis that the science of this being cited as a major source of pollution is a little dubious. Consideration has to be given that e.g. brick ****houses at the bottom of a field have served as toilets for rural people from the 1870s land acts until the 60s in a lot of cases. Obviously there's a lack of data from that time but my point is that people have always simply used the surrounding lands to dispose of waste destined for the sewerage plant. Septic tanks do nothing except remove the solids from the sludge and leave the nutrient and bacteria rich water to stay in the ground. The net amount of waste entering the environment hasn't increased due to septic tanks.

Now if I set that aside and say that septic tank licensing is necessary, then there's even less of a reason to charge for water use. The cleanliness of water is already supposed to be improved to proper standards with the septic tank licensing, so why does the govt need another charge to "improve water quality"???

I can see how it would make life complicated for people sharing rented accommodation.

heyjude

The plan apparently is to install water meters and introduce water charges to all households with a public water supply, whose usage exceeds a set 'free' allowance.

History tells me that the reality will turn out otherwise. If a household doesn't pay its ESB bills, the electricity is switched off, but a few years ago, when the council introduced an annual flat rate water charge, we along with many thousands of other households paid the compulsory charge, but it soon became apparent that many other households chose to pay nothing and in most cases, they were not disconnected. The councils around the country said they would continue to pursue the outstanding fees, but quietly the issue disappeared and it seems that many people got away with paying nothing for years. What is to stop the same thing happening again ? These people know how controversial disconnection was last time and they also know from experience that the council will eventually give up. Will we only see enforcement of water charges in certain areas, and not in others(due to political considerations or the threat of civil unrest) ?

I think you can already guess which areas will have the water meters installed first and which areas won't have meters installed ten years from now. If the councils/state has to pay for the meters, then you know they'll be tempted to install them initially in areas where they anticipate the greatest payment compliance.

murphaph

My water is metered here and so I watch it carefully. It's a precious and expensive resource. However, the priority should be to upgrade the various networks and reduce leaks to a tolerable level. Until that's done there's not much point in metering if the intention is to reduce waste, as a good quarter already just leaks out of the system.

Dannyboy83

I am pleased with this measure.
Should have been done years ago when people were buying 2 and 3 properties and the younger generation couldn't find a pot to piss in.

It will contribute to making houses cheaper for people like myself who are waiting to buy.

tudlytops

Water is free but it doesn't come out of the tap by miracle, someone as to bring it there and that costs money.

Also people waste far to much water, it's about time we put a price on precious resource.

i welcome the water charges.

as for the septic, I don't get it, you pay to put it in, you pay to maintain it and then you pay because you have it.

Shouldn't everyone pay septic charges, after all private septic or public sewage every one uses something

lucernarian

Yes, that was also a substantial reason for my outrage in the earlier thread. Why should I pay a license for a septic tank that I built, while other people can enjoy state-funded or -built sewerage free of charge? I think the concept is inequitable as a result and is another half-assed measure to make up for the loss of rates income since the 70s.