Maintenance grant scrapped if you receive Back to Education Allowance??

cisco27

According to the government's budget website the maintenance grant is being scrapped if you receive the Back to Education Allowance.

Does anyone know will this affect the payment of the maintenance grant in the new year if you have already being approved. I have only received one cheque so far and I am due 2 more?



Source:


http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Summary.aspx#Education

"Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances"



Press ENTER to look up in Wiktionary or CTRL+ENTER to look up in Wikipedia

Dave.

Hi sorry for hijacking,

Are they cutting the weekly BTEA payment?

cisco27

I presume that will be down €8 per week in line with job seekers?

Dave. wrote: »

Hi sorry for hijacking,

Are they cutting the weekly BTEA payment?

cranky bollix

as far as i can tell - its gonna affect straight away as it says
the yield/cost for 2010 will be -4m.
If anyone else could clarify this...

cisco27

this is a disaster for students if it kicks in straight away. You're going to see a lot of mature students dropping like flies that rely on the grant.

Swamps

Yeah, im on the btea meself but had to get a loan to pay the 1500 registration fee. i applied for the maintenace grant in july but due to it being returned to me twice required more documentation I didnt send it in finally until october, still not been approved for it yet.

So seeing this info im out 1500 euro that I got a loan of and required to pay back, was expecting to get it back with the refund from the college after being approved for the grant but now it doesnt look that way if i dont get approved before the new year which is looking likely as I think its closing early.

Anyone know what the story is yet with the tuition fee's coming in next year, was that mentioned?

Having to pay another 1500 reg fee as well as a few grand tuition doesnt look like ill be able to continue my education when this year ends and be forced to leave.

Then im put onto a new lower rate jobseekers allowance designed to get people off it and into education(just being forced to drop out of) and jobs (of which there is none). Have they tought this true or are they expecting all of us to believe its the right decision and itll work.

decimal

From personal experience, the BTEA is equal to the dole, you can also be eligible for rent allowance, and also eligible to the full maintenance grant. Per year, this works out at nearly 20K a year. If you're doing a 4 year degree (you can also continue on with entitlements if you're doing the Post Grad), that adds up to nearly 80K for 4 years.

That was fairly decent encouragement to go back to college, and also good encouragement to stay on the dole for 12+ months to be entitled to this.

I think it's a good move, however, I'm sure there are circumstances where a half grant should be considered.

Byron85

There needs to be some clarification on this. I'm getting BTEA and a Maintainnence grant. I have already received one installment of my grant but I need to know if i'll be getting the other installments or if the new measures will only effect new applicants.

decimal

Swamps wrote: »

Yeah, im on the btea meself but had to get a loan to pay the 1500 registration fee. i applied for the maintenace grant in july but due to it being returned to me twice required more documentation I didnt send it in finally until october, still not been approved for it yet.

So seeing this info im out 1500 euro that I got a loan of and required to pay back, was expecting to get it back with the refund from the college after being approved for the grant but now it doesnt look that way if i dont get approved before the new year which is looking likely as I think its closing early.

Anyone know what the story is yet with the tuition fee's coming in next year, was that mentioned?

Having to pay another 1500 reg fee as well as a few grand tuition doesnt look like ill be able to continue my education when this year ends and be forced to leave.

Then im put onto a new lower rate jobseekers allowance designed to get people off it and into education(just being forced to drop out of) and jobs (of which there is none). Have they tought this true or are they expecting all of us to believe its the right decision and itll work.

Talk to the your local welfare office. You get a starting payment of €400 to start you off in the year you begin in college. You are also entitled to support in paying registration fees from your local office. Around 70-80% can be paid for you, however, you have to pay what's left.

cisco27

I've been texting around, none of my fellow mature students seems to know if we will get the rest of our grant cheques after Christmas. I know that my second cheque was due for collection shortly after the Christmas. I'll be calling the county council in the morning for clarification.

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

There needs to be some clarification on this. I'm getting BTEA and a Maintainnence grant. I have already received one installment of my grant but I need to know if i'll be getting the other installments or if the new measures will only effect new applicants.

ontour

cisco27 wrote: »

I've been texting around, none of my fellow mature students seems to know if we will get the rest of our grant cheques after Christmas. I know that my second cheque was due for collection shortly after the Christmas. I'll be calling the county council in the morning for clarification.

Im a mature student aswell. Absolutely gutted... could not possibly afford registration fees. Really dont understand how they can cut the money went we have been approved for it this year. I wouldnt even mind if I could afford my registration fees. Unbelievable.

Swamps

decimal wrote: »

Talk to the your local welfare office. You get a starting payment of €400 to start you off in the year you begin in college. You are also entitled to support in paying registration fees from your local office. Around 70-80% can be paid for you, however, you have to pay what's left.

Did not know that they could help pay some of the registration fee too?

If I hear from the grant office come the new year stating that im now not entitled to the grant as well as registration refund money due to the budget ill definetly be looking into it.

The 500euro starting off fee im still waiting for after 10 or so weeks, will have to get onto them again about that.

ontour

They hit the people on what €10400 a year to take the money they have promised off them and expect us to find 1500 in fees too

Trish2007

Im wondering about this one as well. It would be a bad move to take the money off people that are already in college. Hasnt that money already been allocated to the county councils from the last budget?

gooch2k9

Did i hear maintenance grants are going down by 5%? Thats great put up petrol and down my grant, which i use for petrol.:D

amtaxi

Can't believe they're just going to take the maintenance grant away - feel sick. I'm in the middle of exams and haven''t been able to do a thing all evening - if I lose the grant that's the end of me and college- just wouldn't be able to afford it! Strange how it's been kept fairly hush hush on the news!

pandamoanium

Have to say this was a shock to the system for me to when I read it.

As amtaxi said, this has been kept fairly quiet with the news and papers mainly focusing on child benefit/jobseekers allowance etc...

Is it for definite that anyone on BTEA is *not* eligble for a grant from now onwards?

Or is it a case of if you're on BTEA then from now on this will be used as a reckonable source of income when calculating grant eligibility?

If the grant is gone for definite I'll have to drop out of college, which is the last thing I wanted

Seems to be a stupid move on behalf of the government - thousands of mature students will not be able to continue their studies and will just mean more numbers on the live registar.

I know money has to come from somewhere - but education?

Roro4Brit

Anyone know what is happeing with the higher education grants from the county councils...just the normal 1140 x 3 cheques grant is what im talking about???

Block G Raptor

Roro4Brit wrote: »

Anyone know what is happeing with the higher education grants from the county councils...just the normal 1140 x 3 cheques grant is what im talking about???

Gone Gone Gone!!! If you're on BTEA

ontour

They have changed the wording to this now whatever it means Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances;

pandamoanium

Block G Raptor wrote: »

Gone Gone Gone!!! If you're on BTEA

Is it seriously gone for everyone for the rest of this academic term?

I was successful in getting the grant, was supposed to receive 9 payments - I've had one thus far.

Roro4Brit

Block G Raptor wrote: »

Gone Gone Gone!!! If you're on BTEA

No mine is not btea, I'm jus on the norman grant from my coco that I've been on since undergrad and I'm not a mature a student! I'm not sure what my grant is called but I can find any info on it

Duck23Duck

The funding allocation for third level institutions will be reduced by 4 per cent, from €1.318 billion this year to €1.266 billion in 2010, while student maintenance grants will be reduced by 5 per cent.

Reacting to today’s budget, Peter MacMenamin, Teachers Union of Ireland general secretary, said “the reduction in the student grant will only serve to act as a further disincentive to those seeking access to third level”.
“The 4 per cent cut at third level is a retrogressive blow to the sector at a time when it is under unprecedented strain with rising student numbers and increased demand from the newly unemployed looking to reskill,” he added.

Peter Mannion, Union of Students in Ireland president, said reductions in the student maintenance grant halfway through the academic year would have serious consequences on students.
The union said the education of students, who are already struggling to meet the everyday costs of living, including transport, accommodation, food and college supplies, is in jeopardy as a result of today's Budget.

by the sounds of this they are only reducing the maintainence grant but im amcurrently on BTEA allowance and getting the grant and im unsure if i will get both next year. i am wondering that like social welfare cuts might it be only for people that are applying for these grants in the future that this might apply to, they surely cant stop people getting grants that are allready getting them , because it would cause 1000's of people to drop out of college and sign on again. it would make no sense.

cisco27

my understanding of the budget situation is this -

your county council maintenance grant is cut 5% if you are not in receipt of the back to education allowance.

but for those in receipt of back to education allowance, you're losing the grant completely.

i've lost heart, can't even be bothered studying for the xmas exams if thats the case.

Duck23Duck wrote: »

The funding allocation for third level institutions will be reduced by 4 per cent, from €1.318 billion this year to €1.266 billion in 2010, while student maintenance grants will be reduced by 5 per cent.

Reacting to today’s budget, Peter MacMenamin, Teachers Union of Ireland general secretary, said “the reduction in the student grant will only serve to act as a further disincentive to those seeking access to third level”.
“The 4 per cent cut at third level is a retrogressive blow to the sector at a time when it is under unprecedented strain with rising student numbers and increased demand from the newly unemployed looking to reskill,” he added.

Peter Mannion, Union of Students in Ireland president, said reductions in the student maintenance grant halfway through the academic year would have serious consequences on students.
The union said the education of students, who are already struggling to meet the everyday costs of living, including transport, accommodation, food and college supplies, is in jeopardy as a result of today's Budget.

by the sounds of this they are only reducing the maintainence grant but im amcurrently on BTEA allowance and getting the grant and im unsure if i will get both next year. i am wondering that like social welfare cuts might it be only for people that are applying for these grants in the future that this might apply to, they surely cant stop people getting grants that are allready getting them , because it would cause 1000's of people to drop out of college and sign on again. it would make no sense.

Roro4Brit

Thanks Duck,

Thats kinda what I was looking at. So a 5% decrease, fine by me. We all gotta do our bit. May mean a few less pints for me and a lidl instead of dunnes as money will need to be redirected elsewhere but such is life.

As I mentioned on another thread, Joan Bruton was on Primetime and touching this subject with the Green minister and mentioned that next year it will be removed, the conversation never materialised, so I and we are none the wiser.

Looking at it, it does state that savings for 2010 will be 4 million and a yearly saving off 35 million, I am taking that this won't be fully implemented till the next academic year.

I really hope I am right.

I am going down the road in the morning and will be asking my TD for some clarification regarding this.

I haven't studied at all today, as the mind is just pondering over this.

Block G Raptor

Roro4Brit wrote: »

No mine is not btea, I'm jus on the norman grant from my coco that I've been on since undergrad and I'm not a mature a student! I'm not sure what my grant is called but I can find any info on it

BTEA is not the grant. it's the equivalent of the dole for mature students in full time education if your in receipt of this then you are automatically disqualified from the CoCo grant the grant pay's my fee's for the year so I'm fcuked as a father of 5 there is no way I can afford 1,500 next year.

Duck23Duck

keep the faith people , they wont hit students again , an if they do we'll strike again

Plus to be frank, am i right in saying that the money has already been allocated for all of this years grants that have been approved. i cant see them stopping it mid term. i would also like to comlement mr cowen for the timing of the budget , just before all of the exams and more importantly xmas.

wait ago Mr Cowen , your ruining alot of familys xmas on top of the terrible year they've already had.
Nice one Taoiseach.

cisco27

I called the county council this morning and they were not able to clarify.

amtaxi

From the teachers union website:

Student grants and scholarships
· A reduction of 5pc is being applied to the rates of student grants and scholarships. This will achieve €10m in savings in 2010. However, the overall allocation for student support will be increased in 2010 to take account of increased numbers of students.
· The reduction will be implemented to all existing and new grant-holders from January 2010. This is in line with reductions in other income maintenance payments including those for the unemployed.
· A further saving of €4m will be made by the removal of eligibility for student support grants from people in receipt of the Back to Education Allowance and the VTOS allowances for those pursuing a Post-Leaving Certificate course. However, the cost of the student service charge and any fees payable to colleges will continue to be met by the Exchequer on their behalf. This will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards.
· Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m.

counterpointaud

So just new applicants lose their eligibility.

But all existing students grants get a 5% cut.

Not quite as bad as pulling the rug from underfoot mid-term I guess.

BlueMonke

This is all to confusing.

So they are saying that a person who is a mature student and in receipt of BTEC allowance who is also in recepit of the VEC Grant will now get no more funding!

Questions:

1. Is this for the new academic year in 2010/11 or current accedemic year 2009/10!
2. People who have qualified and receieved some payments in 09 will they receive the rest of their payments for 09/10 acedic year?
3. People who are eligble but not yet receieved anything will they get the backdated payments for end of year 09!!

Surely they cannot make major changes like this mid-term?

amtaxi

Just rang Dept of Education
"nothing confirmed yet but the plan is to let anyone who is in college now keep grant and new entrants will not get it" However she could not confirm that those in receipt now would get to keep!

Daithinski

http://www.education.ie/admin/servlet/blobservlet/edu_budget_2010.pdf

Student grants and scholarships
• A reduction of 5pc is being applied to the rates of student grants and scholarships. This will achieve €10m in savings in 2010. However, the overall allocation for student support will be increased in 2010 to take account of increased numbers of students.
• The reduction will be implemented to all existing and new grant-holders from January 2010. This is in line with reductions in other income maintenance payments including those for the unemployed.
• A further saving of €4m will be made by the removal of eligibility for student support grants from people in receipt of the Back to Education Allowance and the VTOS allowances for those pursuing a Post-Leaving Certificate course. However, the cost of the student service charge and any fees payable to colleges will continue to be met by the Exchequer on their behalf. This will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards.
• Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m.

The line is red is ambiguous to say the least. This needs to be clarified before people know what the hell is going on.

I rang dept of education. Good news for all those who started college is sep '09 and before. You will still be eligible for the maintenance grants (not just for this year but until the end of the course that you are on).

Its bad news for anybody planning on entering university next year (sep '10) as this is when this change will kick in.

phasers

Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m.

Crap!

ateam

These grants only fund nights out - I'm glad they're gone. Many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

Daithinski

ateam wrote: »

These grants only fund nights out Many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

Translation:

I am under the mistaken impression these grants only fund nights out - I am a spiteful person, bitter beyond words by begrudgery, who cannot bear for someone to have something I don't and therefore - I'm glad their gone. Like me, many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, and even though there is a major recession on and not enough part time jobs to go around by a long shot, inexplicably, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

phasers

ateam wrote: »

These grants only fund nights out - I'm glad they're gone. Many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

Personally, because nobody will hire me as I have no experience.

I don't go out, I'm too busy with college

BlueMonke

Daithinski wrote: »

Translation:

I am under the mistaken impression these grants only fund nights out - I am a spiteful person, bitter beyond words by begrudgery, who cannot bear for someone to have something I don't and therefore - I'm glad their gone. Like me, many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, and even though there is a major recession on and not enough part time jobs to go around by a long shot, inexplicably, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

LoL Well translated.

Swamps

What it appears to be to me is,

People who are already doing a course will continue to get the BTEA, Registration Fee's paid and there maintenance installment money during the year until they finish.

People who are starting 10/11 next year will be able to get BTEA and their registration fee's paid but will not be given the maintenance installments money during the year.

For me all i care about to keep me in college is the registration fee been paid for me, I can just about manage to get by on the btea and reg fee paid for me.


Am I right in saying the reg fee will still be paid for those entering 10/11 on BTEA?

emma131

hey its only for new students if anyone worried ring 057 9325317 its a helpline for mature students

in general grants are coming down but thats everyone
so its only for students enterin college next year

emma131

ATEAM

wots dis quote bout " These grants only fund nights out - I'm glad they're gone. Many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

is it not better we are getting an education ,how dare u say that.i feel its better i get a higher degree than seat down all day doing nothing

im standin up for all student

news flash RECESSION NO PART TIME JOBS FOR US

TERRIC

Will existing students get the grant next year?

Will new students (starting next year) get the grant next year?

Confused.

emma131

sadly new students wont get it

im in 1st year and ill be grand for the nxt 3 years thank god

TERRIC

that's me out then.:(

pandamoanium

The more I think about this the more I'm raging.

People are up in arms over a 4.1% decrease in Social Welfare payments, and yet Mature students are being subjected to what in essence amounts to a ~50% decrease in payments and there's no-one reporting it!

Why is this not making the headlines?

How has this been swept under the carpet?

I'm in the process of e-mailing Liveline (Yes, how trite I know!) however I really think that this issue needs to be highlighted.

If any of you feel as strongly about this as I do, e-mail: joe@rte.ie

Get onto your local TD's, contact your Student Union.

We need to highlight this issue and see if anything can be done about it.

decimal

Am I right in thinking that mature students who are getting the dole (AKA back to education allowance) are completely pissed at the fact that they won't get the extra €6,699 per college year?

I can't think of what any student needs that amount of money for, or why they can't see sense in it being cut. How can someone justify needing that amount of money to attend college? If you are getting the BTEA, you have lived on the dole for 12 months already, how is college adding nearly €200 extra per week to your expenses?

If you break it down, you were getting nearly €400 per week, how can you justify getting that amount while being a student?

superbad50

lads can i just ask if having been made redundant, and was contemplating returning to college in september.if still not working,would i receive the maintenance grant . to add i have not been on any back to education allowance

ateam

Daithinski wrote: »

Translation:

I am under the mistaken impression these grants only fund nights out - I am a spiteful person, bitter beyond words by begrudgery, who cannot bear for someone to have something I don't and therefore - I'm glad their gone. Like me, many went to college and worked part time to fund their daily expenses, and even though there is a major recession on and not enough part time jobs to go around by a long shot, inexplicably, I don't see why everyone can't do that.

That's your opinion. My opinion is that the grants are too generous and studies have shown that they have no impact in getting disadvantaged people into third level education. They are, for many people, a support for their social life during college.

Byron85

The simple fact of the matter is that the majority of employers will not hire a student, for part time work, when there are far better qualified people out there who have already completed their third level education but cannot find work.

There are people who take advantage of the grant, that much is true, but for other people like myself, a mature student, the grant and BTEA are my only source of income. I will only have the grant next year as I had BTEA last year in a plc course and am now in my first year of a Degree in UCC. You can keep the BTEA for 2 years but only if you are climbing the ladder, so to speak, when it comes to qualifications. This cut of the BTEA next year won't affect me as I wouldn't have it next year anyway and i'm putting money aside for the next academic year out of my grant and BTEA already so I can get through second year.

However there are other people who have dependants and whatever way you look at it, University is not a cheap endeavour. People should be encouraged to get back into education. Their choices should not be limited because money is an issue.

ateam wrote: »

My opinion is that the grants are too generous and studies have shown that they have no impact in getting disadvantaged people into third level education. They are, for many people, a support for their social life during college.

I have read about those studies too and the only thing I can say to refute them is that myself and my younger sister are from a single parent family. We were relatively poor growing up but my mother made sure we always had enough. We never went hungry but it wasn't easy for my mother, an abandoned parent, to raise two children under the age of 7 on her own and on a limited income. My sister is 18 and in NUI Galway. I'm 24 and in UCC. Without the grant system in place we could not afford to go. It's as simple as that.

Regarding the grant being too generous, that is somewhat fallacious. The full grant, including the special rate comes to €6,690. This is for the academic year, September to May. You get nothing for the summer. This is almost €4,000 euro less than what someone on the basic rate of the dole, €204 per week before the 5% decrease yesterday, will receive. Therefore to say that the grant is too generous is wrong. You are right that there are people who use it to fund their nights out etc. On the other hand though, there are people like myself and my sister who use the grant to pay our rent, bills, buy food, buy books for college etc. Without it we simply couldn't afford a third level education due to our socio economic background.

Trish2007

decimal wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that mature students who are getting the dole (AKA back to education allowance) are completely pissed at the fact that they won't get the extra €6,699 per college year?

I can't think of what any student needs that amount of money for, or why they can't see sense in it being cut. How can someone justify needing that amount of money to attend college? If you are getting the BTEA, you have lived on the dole for 12 months already, how is college adding nearly €200 extra per week to your expenses?

If you break it down, you were getting nearly €400 per week, how can you justify getting that amount while being a student?

The majority of people getting BTEA and the grant are mature students, alot of whom are parents or even single parents. If your "on the dole" you dont need to pay for childcare. If your in college 25 hours a week who is going to look after your child?

This new rule just dosent make sense. The family income guidelines for the grant are somewhere around 40000euro, so if you were in college and your partner was working and earning the equivalent to BTEA then you would get grant, but if you are claiming BTEA for yourself and a qualified adult then you wont get a grant even though your income is still the same.