Im off to do my shopping up North- P***ed off public servant

Charisma

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

frman

Who cares what you do ?

If you don't think that was a fair budget, there is no talking to you.

MonkeyTennis

cant blame you

damoz

Charisma wrote: »

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

you better go today before the petrol price goes up ! dont forget to factor in the transport and opportunity cost, then see how much you "save".

hem

I've taken a 20% pay cut this year on top of the levies imposed by the government and had my pension suspended.

But I will still do my shopping in Dublin.

Charisma

damoz wrote: »

you better go today before the petrol price goes up ! dont forget to factor in the transport and opportunity cost, then see how much you "save".

Ive no choice really. I have to tighten my belt because I cant afford to live anymore without doing something. When I add up what I spend annually on groceries and household goods and clothing,a trip up North once a month will save me more than 5%. I could do without the hassle but I will end up bad debt if I continue paying out more money here than I would there.

stainluss

Charisma wrote: »

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

Cost of living has gone down by more than 5%...
There is no negative effect on your real income compred to last year.

As for going up north, go ahead, it not illegal:D

frman

Charisma wrote: »

I got nothing in the boom

Oh yeah, are you sure about that ?

Rb

Go for it.

Just remember, what isn't taken in this year in taxes will be made up for with a tougher budget next year.

Perhaps go find some work where your pay isn't benchmarked, because you know things go up AND down, not just up

Alessandra

Good on you. I think everyone should go up and shop in the North as a protest at the disparity in the budget targettig the middle and not the top AGAIN.

CityCentreMan

The reduction in VAT & Duty here combined with

a) VAT increase in NI from Jan 1st 2010;
b) Transport cost to the north & travelling time;
should significantly reduce the cost benefits of shopping in the north.

I was up north earlier this week and the savings are already pretty small.

Thankfully, we are rapidly becoming more competitive and I think that this budget will have moved us in the right direction.

frman

Alessandra wrote: »

Good on you. I think everyone should go up and shop in the North as a protest at the disparity in the budget targettig the middle and not the top AGAIN.

People that earned more were hit harder.

Is that not fair or did you want some blood ?

Alessandra

CityCentreMan wrote: »

The reduction in VAT & Duty here combined with

a) VAT increase in NI from Jan 1st 2010;
b) Transport cost to the north & travelling time;
should significantly reduce the cost benefits of shopping in the north.

I was up north earlier this week and the savings are already pretty small.

Thankfully, we are rapidly becoming more competitive and I think that this budget will have moved us in the right direction.

I don't doubt there is a reduction in the divide but I think anyone less than 2hours drive can still make a substantial saving crossing the border particularly on clothes and alchohol.

dvpower

Alessandra wrote: »

Good on you. I think everyone should go up and shop in the North as a protest at the disparity in the budget targettig the middle and not the top AGAIN.

Yeah. That'll show them.
(and put thousands of retail workers on the dole, but never mind about that)

Rb

Time to "redevelop" that road to Newry I believe, if they act quickly they can have the roadworks set up by Monday.

stooge

YES! I too shall cut off my nose to spite my face!

hurrah :rolleyes:

Alessandra

frman wrote: »

People that earned more were hit harder.

Is that not fair or did you want some blood ?

There are still plenty of people who are not in public sector who are still earning plenty of money. The cuts could have been harder on everyone.

It's beyond belief how we have the same gov't in charge. Nothing left in Ireland for a young person anymore.

Bandit12

Charisma wrote: »

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

Can't blame you tbh. The goverment have raped you with this budget.

Rb

Alessandra wrote: »

There are still plenty of people who are not in public sector who are still earning plenty of money. The cuts could have been harder on everyone.

It's beyond belief how we have the same gov't in charge. Nothing left in Ireland for a young person anymore.

Location: UK.

Pardon?

Welease

Charisma wrote: »

I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

Yes you did.. You got pay & benefits that are well above a sustainable level for a country of this size..
This budget is not about bailing out the banks.. its about cutting the deficit between tax take and expenditure, of which you and your colleagues (as well as social welfare) are a sizable portion.

ulysses32

I feel your pain OP (PS too) but your boycott won't make any difference. Stay at home and spend at home.

My anger stems from the inequality. There was effectively no budget for workers outside the PS today. We are now shouldering the country and don't expect thanks because we don't want it.

Alessandra

Rb wrote: »

Location: UK.

Pardon?

I got out a few months ago, thankfully. The grass is actually greener over here.

GreeBo

Charisma wrote: »

Ive no choice really. I have to tighten my belt because I cant afford to live anymore without doing something. When I add up what I spend annually on groceries and household goods and clothing,a trip up North once a month will save me more than 5%. I could do without the hassle but I will end up bad debt if I continue paying out more money here than I would there.

Are you really that close to the breadline that you have already removed luxury items from your shopping bills?

It seems to me that most of the people complaining are totally unaware of how good they actually have it.
"oh my god, its a recession and now I can only afford to spend €250 every weekend..."

You have no idea what true hardship is.

LookingFor

Charisma wrote: »

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

I feel for ya. My sister is in the same position.

That said, though, if you don't want to be tied to the ups and downs of the government's finances, don't get a job with the government. Unfortunately the people who are paid by the government DO have to bail the government out, just as employees of any company do the same when their company hits rocky waters.

stooge

ulysses32 wrote: »

My anger stems from the inequality. There was effectively no budget for workers outside the PS today. We are now shouldering the country and don't expect thanks because we don't want it.

I dont get this statment at all.

Inequality? If you want equality with the private sector then chances are you will now be on jobseekers(reduced at that). If not then you would most likely suffer a 15-20% cut in wages.

Fair enough saying you are shouldering the country, you shouldered it in the good times and reaped the benefits, now in the bad times you must take the hit. it works both ways.

Today could have been a lot worse.

nkay1985

ulysses32 wrote: »

I feel your pain OP (PS too) but your boycott won't make any difference. Stay at home and spend at home.

My anger stems from the inequality. There was effectively no budget for workers outside the PS today. We are now shouldering the country and don't expect thanks because we don't want it.

I have a feeling this is going to be trotted out time and time again ove rhte next days and months.

Can you honestly say that you feel, after all the facts and figures that have been released, that you weren't earning more than you should have been for the work you were doing while also having rock solid job security and an unbelievably good pension?

This budget is finally introducing some equality, not inequality as you see it.

PeakOutput

Alessandra wrote: »

There are still plenty of people who are not in public sector who are still earning plenty of money.

and those people pay between 50 and 77% of the taxes not one ps apologist ever responds to that fact

tax exiles now have to pay around 200K people have been crying for this for ages and now its in are people happy? no still bitch and moan

ulysses32

nkay1985 wrote: »

Can you honestly say that you feel, after all the facts and figures that have been released, that you weren't earning more than you should have been for the work you were doing while also having rock solid job security and an unbelievably good pension?

Yes.

zootroid

Alessandra wrote: »

There are still plenty of people who are not in public sector who are still earning plenty of money. The cuts could have been harder on everyone.

It's beyond belief how we have the same gov't in charge. Nothing left in Ireland for a young person anymore.

So people aren't allowed to be rich anymore? Have you any idea how free enterprise works? The profit motive?

I think the tax system in the country is relatively progressive. In fact, apart from high net worth individuals avoiding tax, I don't have a problem with it. The problem I have is the government pissing it up against the wall, and the corrupt nature of FF, friends on state boards etc. Altogether, I just don't think they are very competent, nor trustworthy.

Rb

Alessandra wrote: »

I got out a few months ago, thankfully. The grass is actually greener over here.

Feel free to stay there permanently.

LookingFor

nkay1985 wrote: »

I have a feeling this is going to be trotted out time and time again ove rhte next days and months.

Indeed, and I just do not get it.

What do people want?

The government cannot enact a pay cut outside of the PS. When they draft their budget for pay, of course it's just for the PS. The PS is the only place they have that authority and that responsibility to draft a HR budget.

Would you prefer they raised taxes for everyone so they could spare their own employees pay cuts?

How comfy.

For every PAYE worker in this country, their financial situation is a function of their company's own financial situation and the tax policy in the country.

When companies hit the rocks, their workers suffer. Pay is cut. People lose jobs. And this has been happening UP AND DOWN the country. You just don't hear about it as much because a lot of these companies are private, or small or whatever, and they don't air their dirty financial linen out in public like the government must, or they're too small to come under media scrutiny. (This attention, by the way, on the public sector, because of the visibility of the government and its employees' unions is why I think they have a sense of being more important and more entitled to protection - and why they strike when others do not).

The government is just another 'company'. They're in a privledged position however to affect everyone's financial situation via taxes. But it would NOT be fair of them to insulate their own workers from pay cuts by raising everyone's taxes, prioritising their workers over those of other companies.

If you don't like the company you work for, go work for another and see how much better or otherwise it is.

PeakOutput

ulysses32 wrote: »

Yes.

wll then there is no point arguing with you as you are clearly delusional an completely ignorant of reality

Rb

ulysses32 wrote: »

Yes.

ulysses32

stooge wrote: »

Inequality? If you want equality with the private sector then chances are you will now be on jobseekers(reduced at that). If not then you would most likely suffer a 15-20% cut in wages.

Not convinced of the private sector pay cut banter at all. of my wide circle of friends acquaintances and family( a relatively small survey base i agree) none have taken a paycut or heard of one in their respective companies! They are in all forms of industry including services sector, pharmaceuticals, food production, retail, etc. One has lost his job ( construction) but luckily he had saved enough from his exorbitant salary to set himself up in the UK.

ulysses32

LookingFor wrote: »

Indeed, and I just do not get it.



Would you prefer they raised taxes for everyone so they could spare their own employees pay cuts?

No. I would prefer they raised taxes and cut everybody's pay equally, public and private. those unemployed or outside the tax net would remain uneffected.

PeakOutput

ulysses32 wrote: »

Not convinced of the private sector pay cut banter at all. of my wide circle of friends acquaintances and family( a relatively small survey base i agree) none have taken a paycut or heard of one in their respective companies! They are in all forms of industry including services sector, pharmaceuticals, food production, retail, etc. One has lost his job ( construction) but luckily he had saved enough from his exorbitant salary to set himself up in the UK.

ask them how many of them have been given raises in the last two years?

my fathers company (a very large insurer) has enforced pay freezes for the last 2 years and suspended all bonuses regardless of performance. this coupled wit the various levies and tax changes over the same period has resulted in my fathers take home pay being down 25% a year

PeakOutput

ulysses32 wrote: »

No. I would prefer they raised taxes and cut everybody's pay equally, public and private. those unemployed or outside the tax net would remain uneffected.

A) you cant tax your way out of recession

we are already a high tax economy increasing taxes more results in even less world wide competitiveness

ei.sdraob

Why dont you go and get a job in the North as well?

i hear they pay much better

LookingFor

ulysses32 wrote: »

No. I would prefer they raised taxes and cut everybody's pay equally, public and private. those unemployed or outside the tax net would remain uneffected.

You are clearly ignorant of the way the world operates.

The government does not employ everyone.

They cannot cut people's pay outside of the PS (or arguably banks which have been nama-ised or whatever).

Every company offers pay based on its own financial situation. If you are working for the government, your pay will be subject to the government's financial situation. Saying other people's pay should also be cut is like saying that Microsoft should cut the pay of Intel's employees because Microsoft's accounts are down the toilet. That just doesn't make any logical sense.

Unless you think we should all go communist and the government should run everything. Hmm.

The ONLY wany the government could have made the savings they wanted to make without cutting PS pay would have been to raise taxes elsewhere or cut SW more or whatever. I don't think it would be right of them to protect their own employees from the reality of their finances by hiking everyone's tax.

nkay1985

ulysses32 wrote: »

Yes.

Then there is very little point in anyone trying to make you see sense.


I'll give it a go nonetheless!

ulysses32 wrote: »

Not convinced of the private sector pay cut banter at all. of my wide circle of friends acquaintances and family( a relatively small survey base i agree) none have taken a paycut or heard of one in their respective companies! They are in all forms of industry including services sector, pharmaceuticals, food production, retail, etc. One has lost his job ( construction) but luckily he had saved enough from his exorbitant salary to set himself up in the UK.

Yes, it is a small sample size. Far too small for it to be of any relevance. But, of course, it's far better for you to use this little survey you've done yourself than the ones carried out by the likes of ISME which show that the "private sector pay cut banter" is a reality, not just hearsay as PS workers and unions would like to believe.

The company where I work has made around 400 people redundant in a year. I'm lucky that I've still got the job I have but my job now is actually a combination of what was two jobs 12 months ago. Every single person in the organisation is now expected to do a lot more work for the same amount of money. This is the reality of what working in the private sector is; you've either been made redundant, taken a pay cut or are doing more work for the same money.

Welease

ulysses32 wrote: »

No. I would prefer they raised taxes and cut everybody's pay equally, public and private. those unemployed or outside the tax net would remain uneffected.

sure... if you agree to manage and fund the PS pension fund in the same manner as private companies do... equality works both ways

ulysses32

A tax hike for everyone is a cut in take home pay for everyone. Thanks for the lesson in semantics

ulysses32

Yes, sounds great as long as i had a choice over the management of my pension, which I don't!

Qs

ulysses32 wrote: »

Not convinced of the private sector pay cut banter at all. of my wide circle of friends acquaintances and family( a relatively small survey base i agree) none have taken a paycut or heard of one in their respective companies! They are in all forms of industry including services sector, pharmaceuticals, food production, retail, etc. One has lost his job ( construction) but luckily he had saved enough from his exorbitant salary to set himself up in the UK.

So rather than believe facts you're choosing to use anecdotal evidence of your mates.

Obviously you and your mates live in a very different spectrum of society than mine.

zootroid

ulysses32 wrote: »

A tax hike for everyone is a cut in take home pay for everyone. Thanks for the lesson in semantics

You would still be left with a situation where the public sector earn on average 26% more than the private sector then.

Welease

ulysses32 wrote: »

Yes, sounds great as long as i had a choice over the management of my pension, which I don't!

So you would give up a defined benefit pension funded primarily by the government for a defined contribution pension primarily funded by yourself (which is worth a fraction of what you paid in due to the market crash)?

LookingFor

ulysses32 wrote: »

A tax hike for everyone is a cut in take home pay for everyone. Thanks for the lesson in semantics

So basically you think everyone else should pay more so your 'company' doesn't have to cut pay?

How is that fair again?

I don't expect anyone outside of my company to shoulder my company's financial burdens.

The government is in a situation where they COULD do that (i.e. via tax), but whether they should is an entirely different matter. Again, I think it would be wrong. Pay cuts and - gasp - lost jobs have been the norm across other companies with suffering financials, and they've no mechanism to shove that burden on to others. The government shouldn't abuse its power to do that.

I mean I think it's really really crappy how the government is spreading this within the PS - I do not think people under 30k should have taken a cut. I sympathise with you. But only to the same extent I sympathise with any of my friends who've had cut hours or cut pay. It sucks, yes. But blame your employers handling of it. Don't go looking for everyone else to pay up more to wrap you in cotton wool.

Qs

ulysses32 wrote: »

A tax hike for everyone is a cut in take home pay for everyone. Thanks for the lesson in semantics

And what about people who've already taken a pay cut or a reduced week because of the recession?

What about all the people who did great work and their companies are doing well, why should they take a pay cut?

The governments lost money, its staff need to take the cut.

bdoo

nkay1985 wrote: »

I have a feeling this is going to be trotted out time and time again ove rhte next days and months.

Can you honestly say that you feel, after all the facts and figures that have been released, that you weren't earning more than you should have been for the work you were doing while also having rock solid job security and an unbelievably good pension?

This budget is finally introducing some equality, not inequality as you see it.

To say that public servants were earning more than they 'should have been' is a bit rich. Dont forget that 40% of public servants earn less than €40,000 pa. Certainly the higher Public servants do earn significant amounts.

Bear in mind also the fact that there is a far higher proportion of graduates in the Public Sector and in general in the private sector there is a difference between the pay of graduates and non gradutes.

The cut of 5% on someone on 30,000 is 15,000 a year or €125 a month. Surely you cant argue that 30,000 is an incredible wage?

Your claim that this budget delivers equality is clearly rubbish. How is equality demonstrated by taking 5% of a low earning public servant, 4.1% off someone not working etc while letting the high rollers in the private sector away with no effect? Surely company executives, bankers, solicitors etc can afford to make some contribution too?

Public servants realise that there needs to be cuts but despite what you maintain, there is very little fairness in this budget. And as for leading by example Lenihan and co. have a long way to go. If i earned as much as Cowen has been 'cut' I'd be a happy poster.

seclachi

Charisma wrote: »

Thats it for me. Ive been loyal and shopped in Ireland and tried to buy Irish products since this recession hit but now I give up. I am a low paid public servant who was hit by the income levy, then the pension levy and now a 5 % pay cut. I cant afford to shop here anymore. I can save the 5% the government are taking from me by shopping elsewhere and keep my family afloat (just) and thats exactly what Im going to do. I got nothing in the boom so now Im f***ed if Im paying anymore to bail the government and the bankers out.

Firstly, I feel sorry for anybody getting a pay cut, it always sucks

Secondly, if your driving up north for food I hope you live close to the border (which I doubt you do as you say later you`ll go up once a month). I severely doubt theres much to be saved once you have paid the 50 odd quid on fuel to get up there (and 5-6 hours of your own time, which is not worthless). How much can you actually buy once a month anyway, you still need to get your fresh food every couple of days.

I reckon most of the Newry gang are just after hdtv`s and booze (which is ironic considering how hard up some of them think they are).

Qs

bdoo wrote: »

Surely company executives, bankers, solicitors etc can afford to make some contribution too?

For all those in the public sector keep banging this drum tomorrow instead of attacking anyone else. This is where you will get sympathy. The high earners in the private sector should absolutely have been hit.