BTEA + Grant? Grants's going.

nofi

From www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Summary.aspx#SocialWelfare

Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances;

Thoushaltnot

nofi wrote: »

From www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Summary.aspx#SocialWelfare

Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances;

Hi OP,

I think you might have meant
http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2010/Summary.aspx#Education

but there is a reference to unspecified reductions in Rent Supplement in the Social Welfare section.

nofi

You're right,apologies.

cosgrove80

Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances;

So does this mean that that if you get BTEA you are no longer eligible for a grant?

If that is the case I assume anyone who's already been approved is ok and that it will only apply in the next academic year?

cosgrove80

cosgrove80 wrote: »

So does this mean that that if you get BTEA you are no longer eligible for a grant?

If that is the case I assume anyone who's already been approved is ok and that it will only apply in the next academic year?

I do hope so!

I cannot find any information regarding to when this is being implemented.

Has anyone?

ontour

I think it looks like from this year? Its sickening if this is true how are we ment to pay fees. I won't be able to anyway. Will we have to pay them now? What about the rest of the installments for this year.. was really relyin on it after being approved for it:(.. really not fair. I wouldnt even mind if our registration fees were paid i just wont be able to afford it.

fend

is the current BTEA being reduced as from effect of tonight? Is it being hit at all?

Byron85

ontour wrote: »

I think it looks like from this year? Its sickening if this is true how are we ment to pay fees. I won't be able to anyway. Will we have to pay them now? What about the rest of the installments for this year.. was really relyin on it after being approved for it:(.. really not fair. I wouldnt even mind if our registration fees were paid i just wont be able to afford it.

I'm in the same situation. I had to get a loan just to pay the registration fees. If I lose the grant that means I won't be able to pay the tuition fees at all and i'll have to drop out.

nukinfuts

I can only assume that what it means is your BTEA is now classed as reckonable income? Well I hope so, or thats college over for me!

fend

So is BTEA still 205? Or has it been cut?

nukinfuts

cut by a little over 4% monthly, as is the grant (i think)

ontour

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

I'm in the same situation. I had to get a loan just to pay the registration fees. If I lose the grant that means I won't be able to pay the tuition fees at all and i'll have to drop out.

Im exactly the same

nukinfuts wrote: »

I can only assume that what it means is your BTEA is now classed as reckonable income? Well I hope so, or thats college over for me!

Me too hopefully thats it but I think its a straight cut

fend wrote: »

So is BTEA still 205? Or has it been cut?

no we're reduced by the €8 or whatever the cut in JSA was.

fend

Does that differ from people who are say 20 and 21? Will people on BTEA be reduced to the 100 or 150?

amacachi

Nutsacks.

billy the squid

am curious, does the reduction mean the maintainance grant is gone. will those on btea be expected to pony up the 1500 in year two of a course? the loss of the €6,000 will be an inconvenience - some of those who I owe money to will have to wait longer to be repaid, but going without it would be tolerable

Devilman

If I'm reading this correctly this measure will start to have a full year effect in 2011 ( saving of 4million in 2010 ,35 million in 2011), if so it means elegibility changes for academic year 2010/2011.

So this year may just be the 5% cut in grant support for students.

Trish2007

Would the 4million in 2010 be the grants they would have paid out from september to december of 2010, ie the next academic year?
Hope this is the case.

fend

Maintenance Grant -- Mainly based on family means testing

BTEA -- Persons who have been on the dole for over 6 months wishing to return to full time education. Its basically the dole while in college with a 500€ boost at the beginning to pay for books and other.

People were able to apply for both and get both.

The budget has now cut the grant option for those people already receiving BTEA. Which means college fees such as the 1500€ will have to be rounded up at a different source.

amacachi

If I've to pay the registration fee next year I'll be out. Already paying a 5 grand loan and have to find 2700 next month, no chance I can afford more. I can go without the grant and was expecting to but there's no way I can afford 1500 next year.

Trish2007

the more I think about this it probably means that the BTEA will be assessed as means when calculating the grant. In my case my dh is out of work so our only income is the BTEA which would fall below the income levels for the grant. They cant just cut it completely./

nukinfuts

Trish2007 wrote: »

the more I think about this it probably means that the BTEA will be assessed as means when calculating the grant. In my case my dh is out of work so our only income is the BTEA which would fall below the income levels for the grant. They cant just cut it completely./

Thats what I think - its not logical to cut the grant on that basis - considering their focus is on re-educating the unemployed

(I f**king hope!)

jasjnr

@Trish2007 - I'm praying ur right!!!

pandamoanium

Has anyone got any links to this?

If the grant is completely gone for BTEA-ers then like a lot of you I'll have to drop out when I'm finished this year - no way I could afford to go to college without the Grant and pay fees etc...

I hope it just means that BTEA will be a reckonable source of income when calculating grant eligibility and doesn't mean that you're automatically not eligble for it if your on BTEA

If it turns out that BTEA stops you getting the grant I can see numbers dwindling next year which just means more people on the live registar

Devilman

At the start of this academic year the grant application stated that BTEA would not be counted as reckonable income, however this would change for 2010/11 meaning those receiving BTEA would not qualify for the "top-up" grant.

As for registration fees & course fees, course fees are free for 4 years of 3rd level education once you satisfy certain criteria, the registration fee is a different matter ,I'm not sure where this will come from.

billy the squid

If i'm being asked to pay the 1500 i'll be out also. This should have been limited to new applicants so that they would have been able to decide before they started a degree.

Jackie Healy rae was banging on about a 50 bed hospital for kenmare while other hospitals are facing cuts. that is what is paying for our education supports.

watching the garlic eater now on primetime and he aint answering any of the questions.

Joan Bruton just mentioned on prime time about the BTEA and how it is been cut from next year.

billy the squid

And Eamon Ryan neglected to address it.

billy the squid

billy the squid wrote: »

And Eamon Ryan neglected to address it.

True.

I'll be visiting my TD tomorrow for clarification on all of this.

It is hard to study for exams with all of this.

billy the squid

indeed, must do the contacting myself.

jano1

The grant for this academic year 2009-2010 won't change mid year, if you are eligible then you will receive it. Next September 2010 will be different and will apply to those who started in 2009 (not sure of those who started before that). Batt O'Keefe announced last summer that as of Sep 2010, the BTEA would be included as income when assessing grant applications. It wasn't included as assessable income 2009/2010. The purpose of this announcement was to advise potential students before they commenced their course that this would happen so they would know what they were committing themselves to and they couldn't claim to be surprised in 2010. Obviously this will push some applicants over the income threshold for a maintenance grant. As to whether receiving a BTEA prohibits you even applying for a maintenance grant, I haven't heard anything yet to suggest that.

loca1

Feel so sick about this thought it was a start to something good as a lone parent I will have to drop out as the grant is basically covering my childcare and bills and the BTEA is what i have to provide for my 2 children. Disgraceful this government. I would not mind taking a cut in the grant but to lose it completely is a joke

cisco27

We need to get clarification on this.

I'm freaked at the thoughts of the maintenance grant being stopped for anyone receiving the Back to Education Allowance.

If this is the case, that's my college career over next year.

I'll call the county council in the morning to see what they say. I'll post their response.

loca1

I think you may find they wont have a response for you in the County Council tomorrow it will be like the new pre-school year that was announced in supplementary budget it took months to know the details and they still arent final. But if you do find anything out post back surely it will be great to find out some details somewhere cant stop thinking about it and calculating in my head but know for certain it would not be feasible.

billy the squid

jano1 wrote: »

The grant for this academic year 2009-2010 won't change mid year, if you are eligible then you will receive it. Next September 2010 will be different and will apply to those who started in 2009 (not sure of those who started before that). Batt O'Keefe announced last summer that as of Sep 2010, the BTEA would be included as income when assessing grant applications. It wasn't included as assessable income 2009/2010. The purpose of this announcement was to advise potential students before they commenced their course that this would happen so they would know what they were committing themselves to and they couldn't claim to be surprised in 2010. Obviously this will push some applicants over the income threshold for a maintenance grant. As to whether receiving a BTEA prohibits you even applying for a maintenance grant, I haven't heard anything yet to suggest that.

its in the link on page one of this thread

Removal of eligibility for student support grants from Recipients of Back to Education Allowance and certain VTOS allowances;

O'Keeffe was referring to the introduction of fees for those entering first year this year. This cut will also affect those entering 3 rd and 4 th year as well as 2 nd year in 2010

lazybutlively

I thought the reference to what Batt O Keefe said was that people entering
1st year 2009 would not be gauranteed free fees for the term of their degree.
This has something to do with reasonable expectation of cost etc. ie how could anyone going back to college(self reliant) budget for the cost of college.

This BTEA stuff is scary . If i'm reading this right , fees will be paid but the maintenance part will not be . If you look at your grant award form you will see there in two different categories.

However no mantainenance , no top-up , I presume. So for those living fifteen miles away from the college or mature students this would translate to a loss of 6600euro plus 400 lost on the BTEA payment . Giving a total loss of 7000 euro in this case. Or about 40-45% of income of these college supports.

Bring on a cut no problem , times are hard , but for someone trying to better themselves ...this amount of money lost in one year???

I hope I'm reding this wrong and some bright spark out there can correct me. I really do

ontour

If anyone finds anything out could they plz post it

rayray star

Hi I too have been worried sick about losing my grant.

I have been searching all morning and I just went onto the teachers union of ireland website and they have the education budget as a link. It does the state the removal eligibility for those on back to education, but it states that this is for those entering in 2010.

So hopefully this is correct.

cisco27

I called the county council this morning and they were not able to clarify.

rayray star

I called the citizens advice and they have on there website that it is for anyone starting next september. The girl I spoke to said she would clarify it for me and ring me by the end of the day.
Also though, I finally got onto the departmant of education and it says that its for new grant holders in 2010.

bazzare

relax everybody.... calm down Ok.....

its not as bad as it first seems...the worst thats gonna happen is this

those alreday in receipt of a grant will have it cut by 5 % that will come into effect in january 2010.

read this :
http://www.education.ie/admin/servlet/blobservlet/edu_budget_2010.pdf

Student grants and scholarships

• [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]A reduction of 5pc is being applied to the rates of student grants and scholarships. This will achieve €10m in savings in 2010. However, the overall allocation for student support will be increased in 2010 to take account of increased numbers of students.

• The reduction will be implemented to all existing and new grant-holders from January 2010. This is in line with reductions in other income maintenance payments including those for the unemployed.

• A further saving of €4m will be made by the removal of eligibility for student support grants from people in receipt of the Back to Education Allowance and the VTOS allowances for those pursuing a Post-Leaving Certificate course. However, the cost of the student service charge and any fees payable to colleges will continue to be met by the Exchequer on their behalf. This will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards.

• Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m.

If you are already in receipt of BTEA and a grant then you are Ok because it states that the changes " will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards. "

so if you are not a new grant holder... ie not an incoming 1st year student then it would appear that all you will suffer is a 5 % cut and that i can handle..

its those who are coming into college next year that will lose out coz of this... those already studying are relatively unscathed.

[/FONT][/FONT]

amacachi

So is it being assessed as means or what? I knew there'd be a chance I wouldn't get a grant and being 21 so not a mature student screws me a little. It's the 1500 registration fee I'm worried about. I can just about get by on the BTEA but with 50 a week for transport and the 7k or so I'm paying back for my first year fees there's no way for me to find another 1500 a year.

amacachi

bazzare wrote: »

relax everybody.... calm down Ok.....

its not as bad as it first seems...the worst thats gonna happen is this

those alreday in receipt of a grant will have it cut by 5 % that will come into effect in january 2010.

read this :
http://www.education.ie/admin/servlet/blobservlet/edu_budget_2010.pdf

Student grants and scholarships

• [FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]A reduction of 5pc is being applied to the rates of student grants and scholarships. This will achieve €10m in savings in 2010. However, the overall allocation for student support will be increased in 2010 to take account of increased numbers of students.

• The reduction will be implemented to all existing and new grant-holders from January 2010. This is in line with reductions in other income maintenance payments including those for the unemployed.

• A further saving of €4m will be made by the removal of eligibility for student support grants from people in receipt of the Back to Education Allowance and the VTOS allowances for those pursuing a Post-Leaving Certificate course. However, the cost of the student service charge and any fees payable to colleges will continue to be met by the Exchequer on their behalf. This will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards.

• Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m.

If you are already in receipt of BTEA and a grant then you are Ok because it states that the changes " will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards. "

so if you are not a new grant holder... ie not an incoming 1st year student then it would appear that all you will suffer is a 5 % cut and that i can handle..

its those who are coming into college next year that will lose out coz of this... those already studying are relatively unscathed.

[/FONT][/FONT]

They're covering the 1500, grand so. A little annoying I have to admit that I won't get any grant just because I got none this year. Ah well, looks like I'll survive at least.

u60gypx5jakoti

What is it exactly though?

1. No grant whatsoever for new BTEA students from next year? (What about the separate issue of State payment of registration fees also?)

OR

2. BTEA only to be used as reckonable income for grant calculation purposes from next year?

I will be hopefully starting a degree next year as a mature student under BTEA, and would really need at least the reg fee paid for me.

Xios

If that rate is reduced to €100 p.w. then it'll take students 16 weeks of non stop saving just to afford tuition fees, or 8 weeks on the full rate, that's some serious penny pinching for the students. I have BTEA and got a small enough grant like lvl 2, had my fees paid already i think by the grant, but i gotta make sure tomorrow.
I guess all students are gonna need to work in mcdonalds now and continue to eat noodles, bread and water.

Edit/// missed last two posts, nvm

jimaneejeebus

bazzare wrote: »

its those who are coming into college next year that will lose out coz of this... those already studying are relatively unscathed.[/font][/font]

[font=Arial,Arial][font=Arial,Arial]
[/font][/font]

If this is the case, I feel sorry for the people coming in next year.....Its hard enough as it is (particularly for those of us with families)
Smart economy indeed??
The last thing we need now is more people on the dole queue. There is nothing worse for the self-esteem than sitting around, staring at the ceiling day-in day-out....

pandamoanium

The more I think about this the more I'm raging.

People are up in arms over a 4.1% decrease in Social Welfare payments, and yet Mature students are being subjected to what in essence amounts to a ~50% decrease in payments and there's no-one reporting it!

Why is this not making the headlines?

How has this been swept under the carpet?

I'm in the process of e-mailing Liveline (Yes, how trite I know!) however I really think that this issue needs to be highlighted.

If any of you feel as strongly about this as I do, e-mail: joe@rte.ie

Get onto your local TD's, contact your Student Union.

We need to highlight this issue and see if anything can be done about it.

bindi

Thanks for putting this info up. I'm not sure though if it means what you are saying. I'm getting grant & btea. I will be going into 2nd year in sept 2010. I dont think that I will be ok. Its very double meaning. If anyone gets any clarification please quote it. I am going to have a look around now for more info...
Bindi

bazzare wrote: »

relax everybody.... calm down Ok.....

its not as bad as it first seems...the worst thats gonna happen is this

those alreday in receipt of a grant will have it cut by 5 % that will come into effect in january 2010.

read this :
http://www.education.ie/admin/servlet/blobservlet/edu_budget_2010.pdf

Student grants and scholarships

•

[font=Arial,Arial][font=Arial,Arial]A reduction of 5pc is being applied to the rates of student grants and scholarships. This will achieve €10m in savings in 2010. However, the overall allocation for student support will be increased in 2010 to take account of increased numbers of students. [/font][/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]

[font=Arial,Arial]• The reduction will be implemented to all existing and new grant-holders from January 2010. This is in line with reductions in other income maintenance payments including those for the unemployed. [/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]• A further saving of €4m will be made by the removal of eligibility for student support grants from people in receipt of the Back to Education Allowance and the VTOS allowances for those pursuing a Post-Leaving Certificate course. However, the cost of the student service charge and any fees payable to colleges will continue to be met by the Exchequer on their behalf. This will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards. [/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]• Support under the Millennium Partnership Fund is being withdrawn saving €2m. [/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]If you are already in receipt of BTEA and a grant then you are Ok because it states that the changes " will apply to all new grant-holders in 2010 onwards. "[/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]so if you are not a new grant holder... ie not an incoming 1st year student then it would appear that all you will suffer is a 5 % cut and that i can handle..[/font]

[font=Arial,Arial]its those who are coming into college next year that will lose out coz of this... those already studying are relatively unscathed.[/font]

[/font]

CylonYoda

Wow just when I thought things might actually work out and I could go back to education this comes up. To be honest I'm still not 100% sure on everything they didn't really make it that clear. I was hoping to go as a mature student starting in 2010 but I'd be just turning 24 as I start, does that mean I would get the BTEA cut to 150 a week?

bindi

Heres a link everyone!
http://www.education.ie/home/home.jsp?maincat=&pcategory=10861&ecategory=10876&sectionpage=12251&language=GA&link=link001&page=1&doc=45913

This link states the following :
Minister O'Keeffe gave notice that, with effect from the start of the 2010/11 academic year, further changes will be introduced. These include:

• Some social welfare allowances, including the Back to Education Allowance which had been excluded in the means-testing process, will be included as reckonable income in assessing eligibility for student grants;
• The income tax adjustment for farm stock relief will be disregarded in calculating reckonable income for means-testing purposes;
• The residency requirement in the State for grant eligibility will be increased from one year to three out of the past five years for the student - a move that's in line with provisions already outlined in the Student Support Bill;
• The duration of the break in studies required for re-entry as an independently assessed mature student will be increased from one year to three years.

Minister O'Keeffe said: 'I'm announcing these changes for the 2010/11 academic year so that students and their families are notified well in advance and have reasonable time to prepare

So tell me this which is correct the Budget saying people who have btea wont get a grant or the above statment from the batt???

bindi

No I think u would be on 204euro minus the 4.1% budget reduction.... You are not refusing work you are simply taking up something that the government have on offer to unemployed people ie btea. I dont know everything but i think you'd be ok...The grant is the problem though..

CylonYoda wrote: »

Wow just when I thought things might actually work out and I could go back to education this comes up. To be honest I'm still not 100% sure on everything they didn't really make it that clear. I was hoping to go as a mature student starting in 2010 but I'd be just turning 24 as I start, does that mean I would get the BTEA cut to 150 a week?

CylonYoda

bindi wrote: »

The grant is the problem though..

Tell me about it, I went back to school to take the Leaving Cert and was actually looking forward to college next year but with out the grant I'm not to sure how things will work out for me.