Why a Car Scrappage Scheme?

guano_jim

aguestie wrote: »

This is simple - A HOUSE Scrappage Scheme has the potential to grow the Govt Coffers. It will keep a lot of people in jobs that are currently under threat (so not inconsequential - invincibleirish)! As with any other trade, there are rogue builders, bankers, solicitors etc etc so lets not keep digging at the Building Trade here. It is a huge employer to a lot of skilled people including Builders, Accountants, Admin, Sales, Marketing etc. etc.
Now, the Greens need to take a long hard look at themselves - maybe they can do this while they are counting frogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

the greens can go stick a fork in their ass and turn over: they are DONE.

It's fair to say that the people advocating this scheme in the thread are mechanics or such and don't really have any sort of grasp when it comes to economics..

gurramok

How will it compete against the massive private UK imports which have been consistently cheaper hence luring Irish buyers away from the dealers to the UK ?

jayotala

wilson10 wrote: »

That's the thinking that got us into the hole we're in.

Build more houses, more stamp duty and income tax and VAT into the government coffers. everybody's happy.

Trouble is, it has to be paid for.

Build more houses, that's one of the reasons this country is in a mess. Property and the greed that came with it.

jayotala

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

It's fair to say that the people advocating this scheme in the thread are mechanics or such and don't really have any sort of grasp when it comes to economics..

I don't think that's a very fair comment to make. Mechanics or such as you put it have more common sense and intelligence then a lot of people. Some economists don't live in the real world and don't see things as they should be seen.

I for one am an accountant and have an interest in our economy. I'm willing to at least think positive about certain agendas that are there to try and help.

Lord Trollington

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

It's fair to say that the people advocating this scheme in the thread are mechanics or such and don't really have any sort of grasp when it comes to economics..

Give us your insight to Economics, please!? Quick! I'm on the edge of my seat.

Terrible move for our economy it amounts to a subsidy for Japanese, Korean, French and German industry. It encourages people to take out MORE LOANS! It would have made more sense to reduce annual motor tax FFS!!

whycliff

whycliff wrote: »

There is 50,000 people, or was 50,000 people employed in the motor industry in Ireland.

10,000 jobs already lost, and without doubt more to go in the coming year.

Thats 20 times more than the total number of jobs lost in waterford Crystal a number of months back.

The Motor trade contributed €2billion in VRT and VAT reciepts in 2007.

€1.5billion in 2008.

It is sector in the Irish Economy, regardless of what people say.

Its not an industry its a retail sector. It relies on BORROWED MONEY the stuff thats been strangling our economy. Sure it brings in taxes in VRT and VAT but only in the same way that the housing boom did!! Through borrowed money!!

Lord Trollington

Deleted User wrote: »

Terrible move for our economy it amounts to a subsidy for Japanese, Korean, French and German industry. It encourages people to take out MORE LOANS! It would have made more sense to reduce annual motor tax FFS!!

How does ti, in the History of the state, there has never been as mcuh money on deposit?
More ill-informed tripe.

Zamboni

Deleted User wrote: »

Its not an industry its a retail sector. It relies on BORROWED MONEY the stuff thats been strangling our economy. Sure it brings in taxes in VRT and VAT but only in the same way that the housing boom did!! Through borrowed money!!

That needs a big +1

gaeilgegrinds

I'll be going for this! Have a new family car and a ten year one that was mine! I've saved up so should work out ok too. Thank God!

AlekSmart

I remember reading some posts on another forum which centred on some very close links between the SIMI folks in Co Meath and Minister for Transport Noel Dempsey.

It related to innocious stuff revolving around Golf Classics and other relaxing pursuits.

It would surely not have any bearing on this highly desirable "Innovation" which will benefit a great many SIMI members.....

Mr Dempsey is a keen golfer and by all accounts regards a good big boot as an absolute necessity in any State Car.

It appears that the super-dooper Lexus Hybrid which appeared in the Ministerial Car Pool last year fell at that particular hurdle as the extra Batteries took away a big chunk of that valuable Golf-Bag space.

Mercedes Benz 1
Lexus 0

Mercedes wins hands down on aggregate

seamus

I have a ten-year-old car to dispose of but I can't see myself forking out stupid amounts on a new car when I could pay half the price for something 3 or 4 years old.

soden12

whycliff wrote: »

The Motor trade contributed €2billion in VRT and VAT reciepts in 2007.

€1.5billion in 2008.

It is sector in the Irish Economy, regardless of what people say.

It didn't just hand over that money. It was taxation on overpriced goods bought by people. They could just have easily spent their loans on flatscreen TVs.

All those 16euro drops in Child Benefit are now being used to subsidise the motor trade.

Is all this another scheme to get people into further debt ?

wilson10

whycliff wrote: »

How does ti, in the History of the state, there has never been as mcuh money on deposit?
More ill-informed tripe.

Yeah, thousands of people with bulging bank accounts, driving around in 10 year old bangers.

I don't think so.

evolving_doors

seamus wrote: »

I can see such a car scrappage scheme creating a "black market" for bangers. So if I'm actually looking to buy a new car anyway, I pick a 1992 Nissan Micra out of the buy and sell, pay €150 for it, drive it onto the dealer's forecourt and walk away with a €1350 discount on my brand new car.

Think you have it sussed Seamus..but...just to extrapolate on this shenannigans a bit further..

Point 1. Very Very Very few Joes with a car that's older than 10 years is going to buy a brand spanking new car (myself included). The minister knows this, but just follow this logic to see how it'll really work..

Point 2. Lets just say you're not that ordinary joe with a banger thinking of buying a spanking new car (dave macwilliams will insert clever name). He has 2 options...

• Ask for a good discount (on top of the eddie gobbs recession special)...The dealer will scratch his head for a while and remember the multitude of bangers gathering dust out the back. "Hmm why don't I just say that that's the banger yer man just brought in".. and Voila..instant 1,500 discount.
  
• Buy an old banger for peanuts and haul it in for yer discount..
  

Either way, the real outcome won't be an increase in boyos with bangers buying a 2010 car. Unless he's trading up a few years and the dealer is looking to bank the banger he has for the real new car buyer.

Could work..but it really needs those new car buyers to start lookin again and ask for "The Minister for Breathlessness To Convey Sincerity" discount..

Kai

For the record i drive a 10 year old car, do a lot of miles each day. I could have bought a new one by getting a small loan and the rest from savings but i didnt as i saw it as a waste of money.

I didnt buy a new car, i didnt over stretch myself with a bigger mortgage than i could afford, I didnt take out loans for anything just because the banks were willing to throw money at me. The result of which means i can live quite comfortably on my slightly higher than average wage even if interest rates go up.

I feel sorry for people who have gotten themselves into major debt but they have only themselves to blame. Obviously people who have been laid off is a completely different story, if i lost my job then things would be much worse. Im only talking about people who have jobs but are up to their necks in debt, living in fear of interest rate hikes. There are too many people blaming governments and banks for corruption as if this is something new. Sure they played a part but no one forced anyone to be stupid with money.

If you are driving a 10 year old car and think using the scrappage scheme + a big loan to get a new car is a good idea then you are just repeating the mistakes others have made and you've learned nothing from what has happened. A loan may be good for the banks and the economy but not for individuals.

evolving_doors

Kai wrote: »

If you are driving a 10 year old car and think using the scrappage scheme + a big loan to get a new car is a good idea then you are just repeating the mistakes others have made and you've learned nothing from what has happened. A loan may be good for the banks and the economy but on a individual

Too true Kai ,this scheme is not for people to trade from a 10 year old car to a new car. It's all just hanky panky so the dealers can bank the bangers against new car sales. An Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Cheap Thrills!

^^Gotta agree with that. I've a 10 year old bucket which I would love to upgrade to maybe a 3 or 4 year old bucket....

But I'm never buyin a new car so this scheme is irrelevant to me if thats who they are pretending to aim it at.

GreeBo

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

^^Gotta agree with that. I've a 10 year old bucket which I would love to upgrade to maybe a 3 or 4 year old bucket....

But I'm never buyin a new car so this scheme is irrelevant to me if thats who they are pretending to aim it at.

Same, if they were trying to "Green up our fleet" then it shouldnt be brand new cars only.
However I dont know how you would figure out the logistics of a scrappage schema that included 2nd hand cars?!

CityCentreMan

I think that the scrappage scheme has a number of benefits..

1) It will probably be self financing or at least cost neutral;
2) We really need to get people spending again and this measure will help;
3) The new cars will be more environmentally friendly;
4) It will safeguard jobs in the motor sector.

Whilst saving is generally thought to be a prudent activity, with the current recession we urgently need to get people spending and get cash flowing thru the economy...

evolving_doors

Cheap Thrills! wrote: »

^^Gotta agree with that. I've a 10 year old bucket which I would love to upgrade to maybe a 3 or 4 year old bucket....

But I'm never buyin a new car so this scheme is irrelevant to me if thats who they are pretending to aim it at.

Me too.. i'm hoping that those dealers will be happy to take me banger to use it for later new car trade off with some other shmo..and give a bit of a discount on a newer old banger...

bmaxi

Why would €1500 be an incetive to buy a new car? It'll have devalued by that much by the time you get it home. The scrappage scheme will be, like the excise duty, just an excuse to up the price and then make it look like you're getting a good deal.

gurramok

CityCentreMan wrote: »

I think that the scrappage scheme has a number of benefits..

1) It will probably be self financing or at least cost neutral;
2) We really need to get people spending again and this measure will help;
3) The new cars will be more environmentally friendly;
4) It will safeguard jobs in the motor sector.

Whilst saving is generally thought to be a prudent activity, with the current recession we urgently need to get people spending and get cash flowing thru the economy...

Not many have five figure sums lying around for a new small family car. Do you expect them to spend money through loans?

Cheap Thrills!

Armelodie wrote: »

Me too.. i'm hoping that those dealers will be happy to take me banger to use it for later new car trade off with some other shmo..and give a bit of a discount on a newer old banger...

Aha.....lets hope so!!!

Who buys new cars anyway.....fair enough company cars yes ok....but private owners....is there anyone rich/stupid enough left in Ireland to buy a new car....depreciates as you drive off the forecourt and all that...

I certainly don't know anyone in a position to buy a new car these days....least of all the likes of me driving me decade old banger....

AlekSmart

Errrrr...

I certainly don't know anyone in a position to buy a new car these days....least of all the likes of me driving me decade old banger....

Now feel free to correct me,but did not the introduction of the NCT obliterate the much vaunted "Oul Banger"from Irish roads ?

If it has`nt then somebody has some explainin`to do as the NCT was trumpeted (Loudly) as the only way to rid our roads of the thousands (or maybe MILLIONS.....that always looks much more impressive) of dangerous old cars still happily travellin around.

I always found it odd how the Gubbermint could`nt even manage to rig their own stats to boost the case for the NCT....The Garda accident stats continually show a miniscule proportion of RTA`s where vehicle condition is a causitive factor...

Cheap Thrills!

AlekSmart wrote: »

Errrrr...

Now feel free to correct me,but did not the introduction of the NCT obliterate the much vaunted "Oul Banger"from Irish roads ?

Nope. My car which has been crashed a few times and straightened out passed the NCT without an airbag and the steering wheel held together by tape.

The NCT doesn't guarantee safe cars at all. Its just a goverment scam.

AlekSmart wrote: »

If it has`nt then somebody has some explainin`to do as the NCT was trumpeted (Loudly) as the only way to rid our roads of the thousands (or maybe MILLIONS.....that always looks much more impressive) of dangerous old cars still happily travellin around.

I always found it odd how the Gubbermint could`nt even manage to rig their own stats to boost the case for the NCT....The Garda accident stats continually show a miniscule proportion of RTA`s where vehicle condition is a causitive factor...

Every word so true.

invincibleirish

The people who support a scrappage scheme haven't really elaborated much beyond "our sector is important but in trouble we need taxpayers cash", they haven't said anything that you could not apply to any other sector of the economy which is in trouble.

Having said all that the special interests have had their way again today, what are the details of todays proposal beyond it being a €1500 subsidy for people to buy green cars? is this just cars like prius' and the like or is it for any car which has lower co2 emissions then the 10yr old cars?

PS what are the chances the scheme will be extended beyond the initial year that has been proposed?

greendom

CityCentreMan wrote: »

I think that the scrappage scheme has a number of benefits..

1) It will probably be self financing or at least cost neutral;
2) We really need to get people spending again and this measure will help;
3) The new cars will be more environmentally friendly;
4) It will safeguard jobs in the motor sector.

Whilst saving is generally thought to be a prudent activity, with the current recession we urgently need to get people spending and get cash flowing thru the economy...

5 - nice to give something back to the European economy (UK, France, Germany, Italy etc) as they are propping up our economy at the moment

Gurgle

invincibleirish wrote: »

the special interests have had their way again today, what are the details of todays proposal beyond it being a €1500 subsidy for people to buy green cars? is this just cars like prius' and the like or is it for any car which has lower co2 emissions then the 10yr old cars?

Good point actually, they mentioned 'new' and 'efficient' - but I took it that it covered any new car on the general grounds that new cars tend to be more efficient.

What still hasn't been addressed is the massive road tax on very efficient 10yo diesels. Surely any truly 'green' strategy would include an incentive to people to keep these cars rather than scrap them.

The whole thing stinks.