Budget 2010 - Infrastructure Thread

North Cork

http://www.thepost.ie/newsfeatures/no-major-new-roads-to-be-started-in-2010-46526.html

No major new roads to be started in 2010


For the first year since 1994, no new road schemes will be started by the National Roads Authority (NRA) this year due to budgetary constraints. While four interurban motorways from Dublin to Belfast, Cork, Limerick and Waterford will be completed this year, they are likely to represent the end of a golden age of road building in Ireland. The motorway from Dublin to Galway opened just before Christmas, ahead of schedule.

While planning will continue for advanced schemes, The Sunday Business Post has learned that the NRA, which has existed since 1994, is to suspend a possible 50 per cent of schemes in the early to mid planning stages, because of a lack of funding. The board of the authority will vote on which schemes planning will be suspended on in the next fortnight, and as many as thirty projects may be affected.

The authority expects to complete the tendering for two public/private partnership (PPP) schemes towards the end of 2010, and to sign the contracts on both. These are the Arklow to Rathnew section of theN11 together with the Newlands Cross upgrade on the outskirts of Dublin, and the Gort to Tuam motorway, on theN17/18 in Galway. Construction is expected to start on these projects early in 2011.

Last year, most of the NRA’s funding went towards ongoing work on the inter-urban motorways. The only new project that got underway was the Castleisland bypass in Kerry. There were some major new road and bypass openings, such as the Suir Bridge bypass of the city in Waterford, a new stretch of the M9 from Castledermot to Kilcullen, the motorway from Fermoy to Mitchelstown in Cork, and the Tullamore bypass.

Fred Barry, chief executive of the NRA, said that while the road network has been greatly improved over the last few years, ‘‘an enormous amount of modernisation’’ is still required to provide a safe and efficient network.

‘‘The government has, of course, to deal with an extremely difficult financial situation, so it is no surprise that our funding has been reduced.

We hope that as the economic situation improves, we will be in a position to get construction moving again," he said.

‘‘There are quite a few schemes at an advanced state of planning that will be available to build once the funding position improves. But in light of this situation and the new programme for government, we are suspending planning on some schemes for now."

Barry said that the outlook for many construction companies was very bleak, and he ‘‘really can’t say’’ who will be in a position to bid for road building projects in the future.

‘‘We don’t foresee a shortage of bidders, but some of the international companies may exit the market, and some of the domestic companies may withdraw from the business for one reason or another," he said.

Barry said that while about a third of the national road network will be modernised by the end of 2010, the authority expects to continue working on improving the remaining two thirds ‘‘as quickly as public finances allow’’.

He said the follow-on work that would be continued this year included a mixture of low-cost improvements on secondary roads, single carriageway realignments, and some motorways.

‘‘The mix is towards fewer motorways because the traffic volumes are lower, but that does not diminish the importance of these improvements to the communities affected," he said. Barry also highlighted the knock-on effect the lack of road-building would have on the construction and engineering industry in general, and said it was ‘‘inevitable’’ that some of the expertise in these areas built up in Ireland over the past few years would now be lost.

‘‘The civil engineering industry is suffering badly in this recession, and as road schemes are finishing there are no new schemes for people to move on to. So companies are losing resources and capabilities, and individuals are facing unemployment," he said.

‘‘The industry had become very efficient, with a high level of expertise, and it is now inevitable that some of this expertise will be lost."

However, others believe that while investment in the national road network is important, there now needs to be a swing towards funding the public transport system. Colm Holmes, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport (CILT), claimed the only motorways that ‘‘are really needed’’ are those that will be completed this year.

‘‘If you did a cost-benefit analysis of some stretches of these motorways, you may wonder if they were worth building, but they are what the Celtic Tiger has given us," said Holmes. I am not sure if there is a burning need to build the M20 motorway between Limerick and Cork for example - why not just upgrade the road that is already there to a dual carriageway, instead of going to the expense of building a new one?"

‘‘Most of the €34 billion earmarked under Transport 21 will have been spent on motorways, and we will have a fabulous network of these this year that will boost economic activity. But now we need to focus on better public transport interconnections like Metro North, the Dart interconnector and bus services."

But Holmes questioned the need for the western rail corridor, and said ‘‘good bus connections’’ on the improving road system in the west ‘‘would be a lot less costly to run’’.

Noel Brett, chief executive of the Road Safety Authority, said that the improved roads system - and new motorways - would be likely to further reduce road fatalities. ‘‘Motorists using such roads are avoiding towns and villages, as well as pedestrians, so the risks are immediately reduced," he said

Chris_533976

‘‘If you did a cost-benefit analysis of some stretches of these motorways, you may wonder if they were worth building, but they are what the Celtic Tiger has given us," said Holmes. I am not sure if there is a burning need to build the M20 motorway between Limerick and Cork for example - why not just upgrade the road that is already there to a dual carriageway, instead of going to the expense of building a new one?"

Excellent idea. Lets upgrade the current N20 to a dual carriageway by demolishing half of Buttevant and Charleville.

Absolute moron, the M20 is needed more than most of the schemes on the list.

Zoney

Chris: Probably a half-informed position based on a knowledge of solely Cork-Mallow, which though I would hate to see a NI-style DC upgrade with messy accesses, there is no doubt it could be cheaply converted in that fashion. As it is the M20 is planned as online there (albeit more extensive diversions/parallel roads than a general purpose DC with more accesses would have). Existing N20 Cork-Mallow is of course a relatively recent build on a mostly dedicated new alignment (albeit a lot of local accesses). It was supposed to be DC, and was planned as such in the Road Plans for the 1980s (the 1970s plans). Lack of money meant we got the present WS2 - not sure why it is messier nearer to Mallow - perhaps the WS2 was an online upgrade at the northern route section.

The M20 is one of the biggest casualties of the road-building slowdown, and given the state of the existing N20, the word casualty is unfortunately appropriate.

Why on earth does it make sense to have motorway between Ennis and Galway and not Limerick to Cork? (Ennis-Limerick has such an amount of traffic, plus Shannon Airport, that it is deserving of higher priority than any N20 sections other than the current M20 and certainly it was crazy having anything other than motorway there back in the day).

invincibleirish

You're trying to apply logic to patronage Zoney. Why is there an M9 yet no M20? why is the M17/M18 being pushed ahead and not the M20? why is the New Ross Bypass plan being advanced but not the M20?.

The answer is sadly the good burghers in the Dail Eireann constituencies of Cork North West and Limerick west are happy to elect TDs who will crib and moan via thier website via PR releases and local paper interviews how awful it all is but will still happily toe the party line when it comes to the decisiom making.

There'll be motorway deep into South Kerry and Mayo before the M20 is built i fear.

Chris_533976

Also the M17/18 placates the Wesht.

Lets face it, I'd say 95% of people in Galway would prefer the Galway Bypass be built than the M17/18.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Also the M17/18 placates the Wesht.

Lets face it, I'd say 95% of people in Galway would prefer the Galway Bypass be built than the M17/18.

The Cork Limerick road should be number 1 priority then a bypass of Claregalway and Adare. Newlands cross also. Every other scheme is nowhere near as needed as these schemes.

Sponge Bob

mysterious wrote: »

The Cork Limerick road should be number 1 priority then a bypass of Claregalway and Adare.

You know perfectly well that none of these schemes have a complete EIS and cannot proceed in 2010 , yet you dredge these hoary old chestnuts up again and again as if they were ready to go.

Get real willya

Chris_533976

mysterious wrote: »

The Cork Limerick road should be number 1 priority then a bypass of Claregalway and Adare. Newlands cross also. Every other scheme is nowhere near as needed as these schemes.

Slight disagreement with you there

Newlands/N11 gap is the most important one out there by far.
Then probably Galway bypass and the Claregalway relief road.
Then M20.
Then M17/18 or New Ross.

Not sure why Enniscorthy has been lumped in with New Ross. Dont think Enniscorthy is terribly pressing, although New Ross definitely is.

L1011

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Not sure why Enniscorthy has been lumped in with New Ross. Dont think Enniscorthy is terribly pressing, although New Ross definitely is.

Enniscorthy's horrific of a Friday evening... in the old days when there was more ferry traffic it wasn't particularly fun most of the summer either.

Also, the Enniscorthy scheme would bypass Ferns, Camolin and Oilgate I think? Also provide the pyschological boost for tourism/trade of the thicker line on the Michelin maps inching further towards Rosslare.

jd

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Not sure why Enniscorthy has been lumped in with New Ross. Dont think Enniscorthy is terribly pressing, although New Ross definitely is.

Geographic proximity. You can easily move equipment from one scheme to another at different stages of the project. In this instance Oylegate-Ferrycarrig-New Ross Road.

Similarly with Newlands Cross/Rathnew-Arklow. Night trip aound M50 and then down M11 to Rathnew.

jd

MYOB wrote: »

Also, the Enniscorthy scheme would bypass Ferns, Camolin and Oilgate I think? Also provide the pyschological boost for tourism/trade of the thicker line on the Michelin maps inching further towards Rosslare.

I think it ends North of Oylegate

PoolDude

Yes it does - there is another scheme (that may never happen) for Oilgate to Rosslare.

mysterious

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Slight disagreement with you there

Newlands/N11 gap is the most important one out there by far.
Then probably Galway bypass and the Claregalway relief road.
Then M20.
Then M17/18 or New Ross.

Not sure why Enniscorthy has been lumped in with New Ross. Dont think Enniscorthy is terribly pressing, although New Ross definitely is.

The lack of bypass of Galway is not the problem its the sprawl and no infrastructure. The traffic blackspot is the headford road where all roads lead onto one road to go over the bridge. The Galwa bypass wont happen for another few years imo. The outer bypass will only divert western traffic away from Galway city to connect onto the N6.

The N2O will go ahead of it since its an inter urban and will have more traffic than the outer bypass of Galway.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Enniscorthy's horrific of a Friday evening... in the old days when there was more ferry traffic it wasn't particularly fun most of the summer either.

Also, the Enniscorthy scheme would bypass Ferns, Camolin and Oilgate I think? Also provide the pyschological boost for tourism/trade of the thicker line on the Michelin maps inching further towards Rosslare.

You should see Adare, has miles of tailbacks, and has 17,000 vehicles passing through it, and thousands more diverting it.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Enniscorthy's horrific of a Friday evening... in the old days when there was more ferry traffic it wasn't particularly fun most of the summer either.

Also, the Enniscorthy scheme would bypass Ferns, Camolin and Oilgate I think? Also provide the pyschological boost for tourism/trade of the thicker line on the Michelin maps inching further towards Rosslare.

M20 will still be put ahead of this. Since the population of Cork and Lmierck and the entire western Seabord is far greater than the town of Rosslare and Wexford. The SE has already gotten a full M9 motroway and upgraded sections of N11

spacetweek

mysterious wrote: »

M20 will still be put ahead of this. Since the population of Cork and Lmierck and the entire western Seabord is far greater than the town of Rosslare and Wexford. The SE has already gotten a full M9 motroway and upgraded sections of N11

Mysterious, when are you going to realise that you cannot will something into existence? The M11 scheme has made more progress than the M20, therefore it will happen sooner. It's a simple game of which schemes are closest to shovel ready.

mysterious

spacetweek wrote: »

Mysterious, when are you going to realise that you cannot will something into existence?.

Its how existence happens.:P

One scheme on the M20 should go ahead before any scheme.

Sponge Bob

mysterious wrote: »

One scheme on the M20 should go ahead before any scheme.

But you know perfectly well that no M20 or N21 scheme has completed the statutory processes like EIS and CPO and Hearing and Inspectors report. Therefore you want to hold up every scheme in the country for something that will not be ready to go until 2012 at the earliest.

Why don't you tell us more tall tales about aliens in the bog of doom or something , at least we would find them funny rather than tiresome. If you actually work out how to kickstart the alien spacecraft even better

jd

spacetweek wrote: »

The M11 scheme has made more progress than the M20,

I blame our lizard overlords for this, they have their holiday homes in Rosslare

Tech3

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But you know perfectly well that no M20 or N21 scheme has completed the statutory processes like EIS and CPO and Hearing and Inspectors report. Therefore you want to hold up every scheme in the country for something that will not be ready to go until 2012 at the earliest.

+1

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

M20 will still be put ahead of this. Since the population of Cork and Lmierck and the entire western Seabord is far greater than the town of Rosslare and Wexford. The SE has already gotten a full M9 motroway and upgraded sections of N11

Except, in the real world which the rest of the forum inhabits, it won't be put ahead of it.

Chris_533976

That said, the motorway orders and CPOs should have been published for the M20 long ago. Its ridiculous that it still isnt past the early statutory stages when the interurbans are nearly done.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Except, in the real world which the rest of the forum inhabits, it won't be put ahead of it.

This is the real world, check this forum and more importantly this post. I just said its to be put ahead other schemes.

I'm making this habitual.

Tech3

mysterious wrote: »

This is the real world, check this forum and more importantly this post. I just said its to be put ahead other schemes.

I'm making this habitual.

Mysterious, stop trolling.

Tech3

The cost of repairing the roads following damage from ice and flooding over recent weeks could exceed €150m, with some councils calling on the Government to provide extra funding.

Emergency road repairs have begun around the country following weeks of adverse weather conditions.

Sections of the M1 were described as "disintegrating" following the recent prolonged cold spell.

Now the Government is being urged to provide funding on a per-kilometre basis.

If introduced this change would benefit counties such as Cork, Donegal, Mayo and Galway which have some of the largest road networks in the country.

With engineers estimating the total repair bill to around €150m there are now fears that some of the cash may now have to be taken from road building budgets.
Councils in the north and west are worried the repairs could wipe out their key roads budgets for 2010 unless the Transport Minister sanctions emergency support.


Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cost-of-road-repairs-could-exceed-150m-442475.html#ixzz0d2nA18Oa

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cost-of-road-repairs-could-exceed-150m-442475.html

Irish and Proud

tech2 wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cost-of-road-repairs-could-exceed-150m-442475.html

...was on the M1 since and at least from Dublin to Balbriggan (Naul Road) is perfectly fine - the problems must be further north. In any case, the response to any emergency in Ireland seems on a par with that of New Orleans. Yet, at the time of the Northridge Earthquake in California 1994, the demolition crews were in to remove damaged sections of freeway in just 2:30 hours after the event, and from what I read, every road was back to normal in less than a year - even an entire interchange (Interstate 5 / Highway 14 I think) was rebuilt in that timeframe.

We had the floods, then we had the snow - one thing has become perfectly clear, the ordinary people of this country don't count and that this country has become the reserve of a few - kind of like the Catholic Church in Ireland at the time of Vatican 1 - our beloved :rolleyes: Victorian Society! :mad:

The developers and bankers are being bailed out, and yet there's no extra money to repair the roads - I would have those freeloaders in chain-gangs maintaining the road infrastructure. The older I get, the more I agree with aspects of US society - I am becoming so fed up of our system here - I would put this country and the common good first, and greedy interests last - many people who are now at the top would become second class citizens if I had my way! They should be made pay for this mess were in - I'd strip them of Irish Citizenship, and yes - force them into chain-gangs to work on the roads etc!

Regards!

Irish and Proud

...it has just come to mind:

As it seems that there's no problem with the M1 to as far as Balbriggan (and hopefully the remainder of the Balbriggan By-pass to Gormanston (Jct 7)), any problem further north on the M1 (not the N1/A1 link though) is AFAIK the responsibility of the tolling company. My understanding is that the M1 PPP contract involved: the construction of a toll plaza on the M1 Drogheda Bypass (bypass built by Meath CC), the detailed design and construction of the M1 Dundalk Western Bypass, the operation and maintenance of the M1 from Gormanston northwards, the collection of tolls subject to state commission, and at the end of a 30 year concession, to hand back the road in a condition that it does not require major work for another 10 years. In my mind, if there are potholes etc in the said section north of Gormanston, then the tolling company must render the road to NRA safety standards, so that it can operate as a proper motorway.

Regards!

L1011

I've driven the M1 from its start to the Castlebellingham exit and the only thing approaching "crumbling" is the surface of the Dunleer BP isn't up to what you'd expect on an Irish motorway - but its not crumbling!

Unless it manages to go to absolute crap on the Dundalk Western BP, its not crumbling anywhere...