Should the Gardai be stripped of their Allowances?

gent9662

The members of An Garda Síochána in 2008 totalled €215 million, according to a list of 46 expenses types and their costs supplied by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Is this way over the top?

westtip

dclane wrote: »

The members of An Garda Síochána in 2008 totalled €215 million, according to a list of 46 expenses types and their costs supplied by the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform. Is this way over the top?

They were reading out the allowance types on Pat Kenny yesterday morning, it makes you wonder how we ever got into this state of affairs. Who were all these allowances thought up by? benchmarked negotiators from the civil service. Its a great example of how badly our state is managed.

Boskowski

Is that true what it says here?

By Charlie Weston

Tuesday December 08 2009

THEY may not realise it, but most gardai retire as millionaires. This is because the cost of buying a garda's pension on the open market would amount to €1.1m, figures calculated by pensions experts show.

But the garda will only have contributed €110,000, or 10pc, to their pension even after the imposition of the pensions levy, according to research by actuary Fiona Daly of Rubicon Investment Consulting.

The State will have provided 90pc of their pension pot, or €1m, once account is taken of tax relief, Ms Daly said.

The figures, which Ms Daly initially compiled for the 'Today With Pat Kenny Show' on RTE Radio, show that even after the imposition of the controversial pensions levy, the lion's share of a garda's pension is paid for by the State.

Gardai are unusual in the public sector as they can retire on full pension at the age of 50.

The calculations are based on a garda who joined the force after changes made to pensions arrangements in 1995 and retires on a salary of €52,822.

Entitled

On retirement after 30 years, the garda is entitled to a tax-free lump sum of €79,233, and an annual pension of €26,411.

Ms Daly said the value of this retirement lump sum was €1.12m, of which the State would have contributed €1m.

Pensions experts said the most an employer in the private sector was contributing to a employee's pension was 20pc.

The calculation by Ms Daly leaves out the large number of allowances which gardai are allowed to claim as part of their income for pensions purposes.

Colm McCarthy's An Bord Snip report said gardai were entitled to some 57 allowances, with the majority of these pensionable. All gardai, including chief superintendents, were entitled to rent allowance of €4,374 a year, whether they rented or had a mortgage.

Gardai who are on leave also get a premium payment to make up for the fact that they would be entitled to an unsocial hours allowance if they were not on leave.

Mr McCarthy also said gardai benefited from added years or accelerated years on their pensions -- a situation that was not widely appreciated by the general public.

"For example, gardai are free to retire at 50 (an effective 10 years' added service on the assumption of an entry age of 20)," the 'Report of the Special Group on Public Service Numbers' says.

Mr McCarthy refused yesterday to comment on the decision of the GRA to ballot its 12,000 members on strike action, saying he did not want to get involved in "industrial relations tooing-and-froing".

- Charlie Weston

Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/most-officers-retire-from-gardai-as-millionaires-1966954.html

Because that would be hilariously funny on a Monty Python type of scale.

They get allowances for unsocial hours. Which is kinda strange as it seems to come with the territory - like don't work as a barman if you don't like smoke, chatter and working late - but at least I can still follow that line of thought in some way.
But when they're on leave and therefore certainly not on unsocial hours they get an allowance to make up for the fact they're missing out on the unsocial hours allowance?

Now that's right out of the "Realsatire" cabinet in my opinion and I'm pretty sure there's more of this. Slash. Slash. Slash.

muboop1

This has been done to death.

I'd like to see the calculation of those figures for the record.

But yes garda get allowances.

Use the search function.

*edit when i wrote this it was before the threads merged and only refering to the thread directly above mine

bringingitall

The allowances regime should be changed

The majority of allowances should be intergrated into basic pay so there is clarity on rates of Garda pay

Currently the allowances system ensures a smoke and mirrors effect around Garda pay they can point to their point on the increment scale and say "god love me i only earn X amount" when the reality is that allowance pay makes up a significant proportion of their actual income with the majority of the allowances pensionable.

As i've mentioned before there's a reason why they call the cheque with allowances included their "big cheque"

population

I am in a bit of a bind over this because though I feel the Garda are overpaid, on the other hand you want well paid police so there is less of a temptation for them to go on the take.

I know that this is going to be slated as holding the country to ransom, but a public service protection company by its very nature holds the populace to ransom.

greenoverred

Some Garda work nights, some dont. Some Garda work weekends, some dont.

Unsocial hours are paid to compensate working nights and weekends. Its paid in all sectors so why should it be stripped from the Gardai.


Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008)

“Whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent.”

So this is treated as pay. So cut it and take 10% more from the Gardai then other PS workers. Great plan, that will show them to keep their mouths shut.

Premium Payment, Boot allowance and Uniform Allowance add very little to Garda pay, maybe about 2%. Sure feck them. Cut it as well. every penny counts. Who cares about equal cuts across the board.

The above are the allowances that the average Garda earns



To me its obvious why the GRA have taken this action. People trying to justify Garda pay cuts of upto 20%. and then giving reasons like my uncle got free tool hire from the local store, or my friend got into a night club for free.

I feel members of the Gardai fully accept that pay will be cut and know they have to get used to this but the least they can expect is that its done in a fair manner.

Oh by the way I am a member of the Gardai. I have no problem telling people what I work at and am not ashamed of it. I notice all the public sector bashers on this board are very reluctant to let us know what they work at. This gives them the oppurtubity to come out with ridiculous statements like my pay only reached 24,000 after 10 years during the boom even though I have a degree. Tell us what you work at so and we can look at CSO averages on your pay

westtip

greenoverred wrote: »

Some Garda work nights, some dont. Some Garda work weekends, some dont.

Unsocial hours are paid to compensate working nights and weekends. Its paid in all sectors so why should it be stripped from the Gardai.


Rent Allowance (€58.9m in 2008)

“Whatever about the historical origins of this allowance, it is essentially treated as part of pay and is paid to every member up to and including Chief Superintendent.”

So this is treated as pay. So cut it and take 10% more from the Gardai then other PS workers. Great plan, that will show them to keep their mouths shut.

Premium Payment, Boot allowance and Uniform Allowance add very little to Garda pay, maybe about 2%. Sure feck them. Cut it as well. every penny counts. Who cares about equal cuts across the board.

The above are the allowances that the average Garda earns



To me its obvious why the GRA have taken this action. People trying to justify Garda pay cuts of upto 20%. and then giving reasons like my uncle got free tool hire from the local store, or my friend got into a night club for free.

I feel members of the Gardai fully accept that pay will be cut and know they have to get used to this but the least they can expect is that its done in a fair manner.

Oh by the way I am a member of the Gardai. I have no problem telling people what I work at and am not ashamed of it. I notice all the public sector bashers on this board are very reluctant to let us know what they work at. This gives them the oppurtubity to come out with ridiculous statements like my pay only reached 24,000 after 10 years during the boom even though I have a degree. Tell us what you work at so and we can look at CSO averages on your pay

Self empoyed mate - you people need to stop whingeing and find out what's it like to write an invoice and try to get it paid, two weeks before Christmas so you can buy the kids Christmas presents - or take a phone call from a client telling you they don't need your services anymore, from today - or have to take risks with your pension by putting it into risky fund management areas to try and get back what you have lost in the markets over the past two years. Or work for ten hours and find out you can only bill for four hours at 25 euro an hour.

Or go into work when you have a streaming cold because self employed people cannot afford to get sick, or if you have a small company having to tell someone who relies on a wage from you that you just cannot afford to keep them.

Or work in sales on a commission only basis in a recession.

Wake up, You have no idea what it is like out in the real world mate.

Have you any idea how much self employed people make, a lot of us are just scraping by. I am not looking for sympathy or anything - I don't think anyone really realised a few years ago just what a cushy number something like the Garda was going to turn out to be.

As most of ye retire in your early 50s by the way the cost of buying your astronimcal pensions would be massive if bought as an annutiy on the open market - the younger you retire the more you need in the pot - makes sense really, so just check out a few pension calculator websites to realise just what a massive perk your pension is. You are all very lucky to have gotten away with this kind of daylight robbery for years.

Turner

Well maybe you should have joined the Gardai.

I did when i finished in University and i was laughed at as my University class mates were head hunted by IT firms offering them €2000 a week in 3rd year of a 4 year IT degree.

And i started on €150 a week in templemore, still with my outstanding loans from University.

Gardai do not get 50+ allowances onto their pay packet, for example dog handlers get €53 a week. Obviously to pay for their dogs food, and keep them groomed and housed.

It depends on what part of the Gardai you are detailed to work in.

Why should your pay levels be greatly reduced to other members because you are forced to do a job that only works certain hours. When you joined the Gardai you were entitled to work any of the 24hrs a day and received agreed allowances for these. Due to the needs of the force members will have to work certain hours which will lose them pay.

greenoverred

Ah yes, self employed. That could cover alot. Why not tell us what your business is. Im not really bothered to be honest but it would add a lot more credibility to your claims.



Oh by the way believe it or not I do know exactly what its like to be self employed. I know you couldnt have known this because I didn't tell you my life history but you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

westtip

greenoverred wrote: »

Ah yes, self employed. That could cover alot. Why not tell us what your business is. Im not really bothered to be honest but it would add a lot more credibility to your claims.



Oh by the way believe it or not I do know exactly what its like to be self employed. I know you couldnt have known this because I didn't tell you my life history but you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

Well if you're not that bothered thats ok. Sales work in IT and I have never made 2 grand a week clear profit over a 52 week period. I am really looking forward to this budget I hope he cuts deep and hard.

bamboozle

greenoverred wrote: »

Ah yes, self employed. That could cover alot. Why not tell us what your business is. Im not really bothered to be honest but it would add a lot more credibility to your claims.



Oh by the way believe it or not I do know exactly what its like to be self employed. I know you couldnt have known this because I didn't tell you my life history but you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

regarding the public sector bashers you mention, i dont think its necessary for those of us who wish to see reform of the public to declare what we work as, if we are lucky enough to have a job, the fact of the matter is that the majority of employees in the private sector do not have the job security, pension entitlements or allowances afforded to many of those in the public service.

Also, by public service bashers do you mean all posters who have an issue with the cost of running the public service given the current budget deficit or do you mean people who have issues with the quality of work performed by the public service?

unfortunately whether you like it or not the taxpayers of the state do have a right to have a say on how their taxes are spent by our government.

westtip

+1 top post they just need to wake up and realise who actually pays their wages, pensions, perks, sick pay, holiday pay etc.

The other half of the economy busy trying to create the GDP, and before they say they pay taxes as well, well every tax euro they spend or give back is precisely that giving back what they have got from the public purse, when a wealth creator pays taxes it is from the pot of money they have created from creating wealth or selling their labour to wealth creator.

You are right its not a matter of bashing the PS it is just the plain absurdity that we allowed ourselves to get into this position, The PS did very well in pulling the wool over the eyes of government but it just couldn't go on.

We are broke.

prinz

realcam wrote: »

Is that true what it says here?
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/most-officers-retire-from-gardai-as-millionaires-1966954.html

Not quite. The enitre article is based upon hypothetical projections, to come up with a sensationalist attention grabbing headline for schmucks to eat up and regurgitate on boards that the newspaper said all gardai are millionaires when they retire etc.

Diarmuid

Chief--- wrote: »

Well maybe you should have joined the Gardai.

I propose a ban on use of the phrase "maybe you should have joined/become xyz" on the boards.ie. It pops up in pretty much every thread and is totally meaningless.

I didn't become a doctor because I don't want to deal with sick people, I didn't become a lawyer because I'm not interested in the law, I didn't be come a teacher because I don't want to stand in front of a class of kids every day. This doesn't stop me from commenting on doctors, lawyers or teachers.

greenoverred

"regarding the public sector bashers you mention, i dont think its necessary for those of us who wish to see reform of the public to declare what we work as, if we are lucky enough to have a job, the fact of the matter is that the majority of employees in the private sector do not have the job security, pension entitlements or allowances afforded to many of those in the public service."



if we are lucky enough to have a job, blah blah blah. Sorry mate, unemployemnt figure are at what 11%-12%. That means 88% of people have a job. I wont even go into how many of the 12% couldnt be arsed working.

Im not asking you to declare anything. It would be just interesting to know were you are coming from and may help back up your arguements.

"Also, by public service bashers do you mean all posters who have an issue with the cost of running the public service given the current budget deficit or do you mean people who have issues with the quality of work performed by the public service?"

No I don't mean any of these. I actually agree with these points. I think its pretty obvious the kind of poster Im talking about."


"unfortunately whether you like it or not the taxpayers of the state do have a right to have a say on how their taxes are spent by our government."

Indeed everyone has a right to have a say, whether you are a tax payer or not. Doesn't actually mean your say is right

Diarmuid

prinz wrote: »

Not quite. The enitre article is based upon hypothetical projections, to come up with a sensationalist attention grabbing headline for schmucks to eat up and regurgitate on boards that the newspaper said all gardai are millionaires when they retire etc.

We wouldn't want any hypothetical projections around here. Let's just make promises of future payouts to everyone and anyone and not consider for a minute what that will cost us or if we can afford it..

Is that you Bertie?

greenoverred

westtip wrote: »

+1 top post they just need to wake up and realise who actually pays their wages, pensions, perks, sick pay, holiday pay etc.

The other half of the economy busy trying to create the GDP, and before they say they pay taxes as well, well every tax euro they spend or give back is precisely that giving back what they have got from the public purse, when a wealth creator pays taxes it is from the pot of money they have created from creating wealth or selling their labour to wealth creator.

You are right its not a matter of bashing the PS it is just the plain absurdity that we allowed ourselves to get into this position, The PS did very well in pulling the wool over the eyes of government but it just couldn't go on.

We are broke.

Thank you very much westip for paying my wages. I suppose a pay rise is out of the question. Although if you are as much on the breadline as you claim to be I doubt your contributing very much

prinz

Diarmuid wrote: »

We wouldn't want any hypothetical projections around here.

Hypothetical projections are one thing, accompanying them with a headline stating your findings as fact is idiocy. Notice how the headline is formulated in the present tense? Yet the entire article deals with a hypothetical future? Yeah, real classy journalism. Expect nothing more from the Independent.

gent9662

greenoverred wrote: »

Ah yes, self employed. That could cover alot. Why not tell us what your business is. Im not really bothered to be honest but it would add a lot more credibility to your claims.



Oh by the way believe it or not I do know exactly what its like to be self employed. I know you couldnt have known this because I didn't tell you my life history but you shouldn't be so presumptuous.

self employed and working as a Guard, yes that's typical of a "member". I know plenty of Guards and believe me the best thing you do is winge and complain. You guys retire at 50 with a big pension and then still think you are entitled to freebies and extras.

It's a about time you realised that the general public think you are a liability to the state in your current form.

gent9662

greenoverred wrote: »

Thank you very much westip for paying my wages. I suppose a pay rise is out of the question. Although if you are as much on the breadline as you claim to be I doubt your contributing very much

The breadline is not something you guys will ever have to worry about, I think the only thing you guys worry about is whether the apartments in lanzarote are available for your summer holiers. Remind me again how many allowances you get when you are actually on those holidays?

bamboozle

greenoverred wrote: »

"regarding the public sector bashers you mention, i dont think its necessary for those of us who wish to see reform of the public to declare what we work as, if we are lucky enough to have a job, the fact of the matter is that the majority of employees in the private sector do not have the job security, pension entitlements or allowances afforded to many of those in the public service."



if we are lucky enough to have a job, blah blah blah. Sorry mate, unemployemnt figure are at what 11%-12%. That means 88% of people have a job. I wont even go into how many of the 12% couldnt be arsed working.

Im not asking you to declare anything. It would be just interesting to know were you are coming from and may help back up your arguements.

"Also, by public service bashers do you mean all posters who have an issue with the cost of running the public service given the current budget deficit or do you mean people who have issues with the quality of work performed by the public service?"

No I don't mean any of these. I actually agree with these points. I think its pretty obvious the kind of poster Im talking about."


"unfortunately whether you like it or not the taxpayers of the state do have a right to have a say on how their taxes are spent by our government."

Indeed everyone has a right to have a say, whether you are a tax payer or not. Doesn't actually mean your say is right

you are making some highly sanctimonious remarks from up there in your ivory tower. however i take it you dont understand how the unemployment rate is calculated, its a % of the population, from the 2006 census there were 4,239,848 people living in Ireland, of that about 1.6million people were under the age of 18 or over the age of 65. When you consider the people remaining thats about 2.6 million people, if our numbers of unemployed is circa 400k this would mean one in 6.5 adults of working age are unemployed (i'm not taking into account disabled, stay at home mothers people who have emigrated in search of work etc etc) anyone i know who has had the misfortune of losing their job would love to be working so i think your comments above are idiotic and highlight one of the main issues people have with some people in the public service that they do not appreciate their job sercurity.

Turner

dclane wrote: »

self employed and working as a Guard, yes that's typical of a "member". I know plenty of Guards and believe me the best thing you do is winge and complain. You guys retire at 50 with a big pension and then still think you are entitled to freebies and extras.

It's a about time you realised that the general public think you are a liability to the state in your current form.

All Gardai retire at 50!!!

So all Gardai start in Templemore when they are 20 and retire when they are 50 after 30 years of sitting on their arse watching dvd's in the station.

You sir are living in a dream world and i believe you have constantly shown this from the start in all your anti-garda posts.

westtip

Are these allowances Garda get expensed allowances given out Tax free? or treated as taxable income - please tell me its the latter or I think I might really need to reach for the sick bucket.

muboop1

Taxable. Their overtime is i believe actually taxed at a higher rate then normal salary?? Perhaps someone can back this up or say otherwise.

gent9662

Chief--- wrote: »

All Gardai retire at 50!!!

So all Gardai start in Templemore when they are 20 and retire when they are 50 after 30 years of sitting on their arse watching dvd's in the station.

You sir are living in a dream world and i believe you have constantly shown this from the start in all your anti-garda posts.

Is it not the law to be allowed to express opinions? As a tax-payer and a person who contributes significantly to your wages, pensions and allowances what respect I did have for your profession has diminished over the years.

Like in every profession there are good and bad. In the private sector the bad tend to be found out and sacked if they are not performing. For those that do perform and contribute to the profits of the business get rewarded.

My argument and anti-garda feeling comes from the fact that I know and work closely with a number of gaurds and every one of them wants more and more. It's not about the profession or upholding the law, it's about getting as much from the state as humanly possible this comes in many forms:
1. agreement to benchmarking
2. Vast allowances
3. Freebies
4. Significant pensions

I am sure there are honest hard working Gaurds patrolling the beat and taking scumbags off our streets and I thank you for that. But you volunteered to do it, nobody forced you into it. Like everybody in life if you find that you are not happy with the pay and work well then get out.

But please do us all the favour and take the pay cut and don't go on strike. The other thing is, that yes I feel the allowances are unfair. My wife is a nurse and she does not get a fraction of what the gaurds get and she is frontline as they come.

Yes there are a significant number of gaurds who nearing retirement do sit in the office and ride out their time, would you agree?

bringingitall

CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS


2008 - Average Garda Pay = €1,207.24

I rest my case

The facts are the facts

You may notice you are the best paid public servants in the land

Before someone shows me the payscales this is the fully loaded (allowances etc.) average salary cost for each Garda employed by the state.

Before someone says its the guys at the tops salary thats making these figures bigger than they are rememeber these people make up a tiny percentage of number in the force and so have little influence on skewing the figures. Thats the way averages work!!!

muboop1

bringingitall wrote: »

CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS
Before someone says its the guys at the tops salary thats making these figures bigger than they are rememeber these people make up a tiny percentage of number in the force and so have little influence on skewing the figures. Thats the way averages work!!!

I amn't disputing the figures etc... but your last statement...

Regarding wages outliers can have a huge affect!
I do not know if this is the case here, but your point is totally invalid... like completely...

Best way to get an average, is get the average number of years a garda has been working and get the salary for the respective years. add that to the average allowance.

Much fairer then what you have done imo. I'm sure there is a better way again.. just to lasy to think it up.

Turner

So it would be safe to say the average member of Garda rank gets €800 or €900 a week before tax.

So maybe 600-700 into their hand.

This is not an inflated wage for the job they are required to do.

And if people want them to be paid €400 a week, see then what type of Gardai the job attracts.

bringingitall

Wage outliers can only have an effect when the staff numbers that make up those wage outliers make up a significant proportion of the sample size

In this case there about 14,411 Gardai

Those at the top of the Gardai make up a tiny proportion of the sample size therefore they have little effect on the figures

gent9662

Chief--- wrote: »

So it would be safe to say the average member of Garda rank gets €800 or €900 a week before tax.

So maybe 600-700 into their hand.

This is not an inflated wage for the job they are required to do.

And if people want them to be paid €400 a week, see then what type of Gardai the job attracts.

In the times we are in €400 a week plus 52 different allowances and a defined pension is excellent! But I thought it had something to do with protecting, serving and upholding the constitution

bringingitall

Chief--- wrote: »

So it would be safe to say the average member of Garda rank gets €800 or €900 a week before tax.

So maybe 600-700 into their hand.

This is not an inflated wage for the job they are required to do.

And if people want them to be paid €400 a week, see then what type of Gardai the job attracts.

thats just childrens maths your at there

stick the facts

the facts are:

€1,200 is the average garda pay

You guys used the CSO to pump up your wages when the figures suited you. Remember the good old days you argued that private sector pay had outstripped public sector.

The CSO figures were good enough then

muboop1

bringingitall wrote: »

thats just childrens maths your at there

stick the facts

the facts are:

€1,200 is the average garda pay

You guys used the CSO to pump up your wages when the figures suited you. Remember the good old days you argued that private sector pay had outstripped public sector.

The CSO figures were good enough then

But see your figures cannot be correct. Do you know what the average allowance for a garda is?
If not then your allowances are rubbish.

You can easily create a range by your method, your figure being the max.

Get the figures for garda with min possible allowances and compare with the max.

Then your figures would be so much more accurate.

As it is, to assume all gaurds as "full loaded" as you called it skews your results. That added in with the outliers you are ignoring make your maths terrible.

Be accurate yourself or do not put down other posters for their maths.

Diarmuid

prinz wrote: »

Yet the entire article deals with a hypothetical future?

It's not a hypothetical future, it's the real present. Pensions are paid out of current government expenditure.

bringingitall

LIsten your getting mixed up this is the total Garda pay bill divided by number in the gardai

Very simple

and very interesting

I guess the guys in the CSO don't know what they're at?????????

Go to link below CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQui...lProduct=DB_PS


2008 - Average Garda Weekly Pay = €1,207.24

I rest my case

jonsnow

Chief--- wrote: »

Well maybe you should have joined the Gardai.
.

It is utterly pointless saying this as another poster has already commented.I second his comment.If you have a problem with what bankers/property developers earn then maybe you should have become one .If you have a problem with the way the country is being run then maybe you should have become the taoiseach.If you have a problem with the budget then maybe you should have become the minister for finance.Etc,etc

bringingitall

jonsnow wrote: »

It is utterly pointless saying this as another poster has already commented.I second his comment.If you have a problem with what bankers/property developers earn then maybe you should have become one .If you have a problem with the way the country is being run then maybe you should have become the taoiseach.If you have a problem with the budget then maybe you should have become the minister for finance.Etc,etc

Well said

Go to link below CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQui...lProduct=DB_PS

2008 - Average Garda Weekly Pay = €1,207.24

Turner

It is not the average member of the Gardai of Garda Rank.

Which everybody here is talking about.

It is everything from Garda to Commissioner and an average of that.

Average Garda rank pay before tax would be anything from 500-1000 a week depending on service.

muboop1

bringingitall wrote: »

LIsten your getting mixed up this is the total Garda pay bill divided by number in the gardai

Very simple

and very interesting

I guess the guys in the CSO don't know what they're at?????????

Go to link below CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQui...lProduct=DB_PS


2008 - Average Garda Weekly Pay = €1,207.24

I rest my case

Here mate,
Do not try to tell me I am wrong...
I obviously know my maths considerably better then you as you can't seem to combat any of the points I have made.

Yes yours is the "average" pay a garda gets. But it is a very unfair average that you are using the skew the stats in your opinion.

I am also debating your use of the term "full loaded" as you call it. Why did you decide that all garda get full allowances?? Thats certainly not an "average"

God, if your going to claim your "average" is perfectly sound, at least back it up by taking the average allowance...

Else you are comparing two different maths to get a figure which favours your point. Im currently sitting her actually studying this type of stuff. So i think I'm in a position to call BS.

Stop claiming fact or back it up with decent maths.
Show how you got your allowance figure, and show me where it states it the average.

Also on a side note your link doesn't work.

bringingitall

Go to the link man have a look its the total Garda pay bill divided by number in the gardai this includes allowances etc. its not broken out

Its the total amount the Dept of Finance paid in salary costs(incl.allowances etc) to members of An Garda Siochana in total divided by the numbers in the force

Your waffling about allowances etc. read your post its waffle.

The facts are the facts

Go to link below CSO:

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQui...lProduct=DB_PS


2008 - Average Garda Weekly Pay = €1,207.24

Diarmuid

Chief--- wrote: »

It is not the average member of the Gardai of Garda Rank.

Which everybody here is talking about.

It is everything from Garda to Commissioner and an average of that.

Average Garda rank pay before tax would be anything from 500-1000 a week depending on service.

Thanks but I'll take the word of the CSO over some guy on the internet called Chief---

muboop1

Well thats different, you stated in your origional post that you were using a fully loaded garda without every specifying what it was. Which I asked.

As for waffle, no it's not. If you knew maths you would know that. It's a misunderstanding.

Regardless,
Average wage for someone working in An Garda Siochanca vs Actual average wage of average garda are two totaly different figures.

You are using an average, but that doesn't mean its a fair average!

As i stated before, a more accurate method would be, get average service time of garda, get appropriate wage off chart and add appropriate average allowance.

Its less then you say.
Much less.

I'm no garda btw, nor do I have any reason to defend them as such. But your figures regardless of how many times you repeat them are biased towards your point.

You chose the simplest method to get average. But not the most accurate.

Not the most accurate by far.

Also, i repeat again.... your link doesn't work...

So as for reading my post and deciding it's waffle... You clearly didn't if you missed that...

Now, go google or whatever you have to do to figure out how there can be different averages other then the basic one we learned in primary school... look at what i said, and see if you still disagree.

gent9662

Finally...the government has acted by cutting Public service pay. Let's just hope they take a good long look at the 50 plus allowances that are given to the Gardai next.

bringingitall

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

Here you go

pah

€1,207.24*52 Weeks = €62,776.48

Not for me.

€37,935 = basic after 4 years

about €9000 in allowances for nights and weekends, of which 3 saturdays and 2 sundays are worked out of every 4 week roster.

Rent allowance is about €4000 and has always been regarded as part of pay.

That puts me just over 50k which is a very good Gross wage. I make no bones about saying that. Nor do I make any apologies for the wage that I receive I work hard for it. I can't speak for anybody other than myself and those that I work directly with, we all work hard.

I am lucky this year I'm working christmas eve but I'm off til the 28th. The other 3/4 of the station party are not so lucky. They have to work shifts on christmas eve/day and stephens day. They get allowances for this and are entitled to them. Making sure that they are there to respond to anything that happens while the rest of us sit down to our christmas dinner with our families.

Have a look at these stats.

http://www.frontlinealliance.ie/Documents/Fact_Sheet_3_final_22-09-09.pdf

public servant contributions to the pension bill in 2008 was 6.5% of the 10% needed. That was before the 7.5% pension levy. Is the public service pension bill not now self sufficient if not profiatable?

I realise that cuts are needed and I am willing to take the hit to share the burden as long as it's fair but I won't apologise to anybody for getting the wage that I do for the job that I do. Many others wouldn't do it.

muboop1

Thanks for link,
But bringingitall, thats still not an accurate average. Do you get that like? If not its cool. Sorry if i seem condescending about this.

I just don't want anybody else coming on here reading this and thinking all garda are getting that pay or something close to it.

Some are, some get considerably more. But most and i stress that word wont be!

Just the nature of how the maths work.

I agree that some of their allowances can be out of order, but I feel some of them are due.

Someone mentioned dog allowance etc... I agree with that. Not sure I agree with the rent one... I would prefer if that was based on a person and where stationed. Rent in country cheaper then Dublin etc...

Clothing allowance, yeh if they are undercover garda. Clothes could easily get wrecked doing their job etc.

Few make sense. Others do not.

el dude

Anyone got a link to the avergae Garda wage?

pah

dclane wrote: »

Finally...the government has acted by cutting Public service pay. Let's just hope they take a good long look at the 50 plus allowances that are given to the Gardai next.

look I get allowances for nights + weekends and uniform/boot allowance. I am your average member. I don't get bike/motorbike/plain clothes/detective/gaeltacht/ dog handlers etc.

Specialised members receive one or two of these allowances. Not all of them at one go.

bringingitall

yeah listen its not perfect i know a Garda startin off is not gettin 1200euro but the facts are that they are the best renumerated public servants in Ireland and of all the public servants out there are better placed to take a hit.

Instead of striking in an ileagal fashion

pah

el dude wrote: »

Anyone got a link to the avergae Garda wage?

http://www.gra.cc/payscales.shtml

murf313

westtip wrote: »

Self empoyed mate - you people need to stop whingeing and find out what's it like to write an invoice and try to get it paid, two weeks before Christmas so you can buy the kids Christmas presents - or take a phone call from a client telling you they don't need your services anymore, from today - or have to take risks with your pension by putting it into risky fund management areas to try and get back what you have lost in the markets over the past two years. Or work for ten hours and find out you can only bill for four hours at 25 euro an hour.

Or go into work when you have a streaming cold because self employed people cannot afford to get sick, or if you have a small company having to tell someone who relies on a wage from you that you just cannot afford to keep them.


Or work in sales on a commission only basis in a recession.

Wake up, You have no idea what it is like out in the real world mate.

Have you any idea how much self employed people make, a lot of us are just scraping by. I am not looking for sympathy or anything - I don't think anyone really realised a few years ago just what a cushy number something like the Garda was going to turn out to be.

As most of ye retire in your early 50s by the way the cost of buying your astronimcal pensions would be massive if bought as an annutiy on the open market - the younger you retire the more you need in the pot - makes sense really, so just check out a few pension calculator websites to realise just what a massive perk your pension is. You are all very lucky to have gotten away with this kind of daylight robbery for years.

boo hoo........:( should have joined the gardai then, shouldnt you?

why is everyone only coming out of the woodwork now to cry about how great the guards pay is? why dont you join the force if its so great???

(im not a garda)