Scrappage Scheme?

eringobragh

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/news/budget-sweeteners-1968093.html

But motorists who want to upgrade their cars will benefit from a car scrappage scheme -- provided they are buying an environmentally friendly motor.

Where somebody trades in a car over 10 years old for scrappage, the Government will offer around €1,500 off the Vehicle Registration Tax on their new car. But this new car will have to have low emissions, putting it in tax bands A or B. These cars already attract the lowest road tax and VRT levels and are highly fuel efficient.

Hardly an incentive to go and buy a new car is it?

Took the government long enough to cop on to the booze revenue falling before they reduced the excise..exactly how many more UK cars be imported (and millions lost) will before they cop on

Mr Benevolent

To be fair, it's a fair chunk off the VRT on a low emissions car.

K2

Its a big task getting more and more people to go the hybrid / totally electrical route when buying a car. I would have thought initially they would have to offer a big financial incentive to get a large proportion of us started down that road, then in say 5 years to start reducing the tax breaks they have on these cars, eventually getting back to shafting us on vrt and vat.

So 1500 doesnt look like a lot does it! Of course they could just end up making petrol soooo expensive that it would be a no brainer to switch to electric cars:rolleyes:

Tipsy Mac

Zero VRT on A rated cars with no scrappage scheme would bring im more money.

bibbly

so if i trade in a decent running 11 year old BMW I get 1,500 euro off say the VRT of a new Peugeot 308 Ecomatique, and i get a bit more off for the value of the old car? so i might get 2,500 euro off..

is that right?

jank

Not something we need right now, there are not that many people who will go from a 10 year old car to a brand new one. I cant see this being a success.

nogoodnamesleft

bibbly wrote: »

so if i trade in a decent running 11 year old BMW I get 1,500 euro off say the VRT of a new Peugeot 308 Ecomatique, and i get a bit more off for the value of the old car? so i might get 2,500 euro off..

is that right?

+1

The UK brought in the scrappage scheme in at the start of the year. Most of the decent car mags come from over there and people in the trade are disgusted that cars with a lot of life still left in them are being brought to the scrap yard. They listed some examples in the article I was reading and as far as i can remember one of the cars that was scrapped was a Porsche 944.

How much energy is used manufacturing a new car never mind Co2 emissions produced?

Personally I would rather drive round in a 10 year old well made reliable car with all the toys than some new kia city car.

mickdw

Doing anything that makes cars cheaer is not good idea for the market at this time imo.
IF they really want to reduce vrt, they must do it in a way that makes people need to buy now rather than wait til the price reduces & settles down again (like what happened in 2008).
Prices need to be inflating slightly to get all the buyers to part with their cash.
There are many ways that this could be done and they could introduce cash back on cars bought new here so that importing nearly new might not be so usefull.
If they announced that the vrt bands were shifting to move every car up one band i.e. into a dearer band, people would be running to buy at the reduced price. That is what I would do.... Announce a step up in vrt bands from july 2010. No need for scrappage or anything else. That would take care of 2010 sales in my opinion. After that, we might be in a better position.

BostonB

jank wrote: »

Not something we need right now, there are not that many people who will go from a 10 year old car to a brand new one. I cant see this being a success.

Yeah I agree.

BlackWizard

These schemes have nothing to do with the environment. If anything they makes things worse.

The next generation will be laughing at what we attempted to do during the early 20 hundreds.

bazz26

All pointless if people cannot get credit from the banks or will not spend if they are uncertain about their future.

bijapos

Doesn't really matter if it makes sense or not. The SIMI were lobbying for this for ages, on TV radio, papers and no doubt the corridors of the Dail and Seanad. They have direct contact with the politicians and civil sertvants who run the country and decide these things. They get what they want.

Very short sighted and you only have to look at other countries who have tried this to see that it doesn't really work, but there again why use common sense when you get the lobbtists to shut up.

colm_mcm

Makes a new Clio pretty cheap then. they were advertising 1.2 Royale models for under €11k, they said the Govs scrappage would be deducted from that if it came in. so €9500 plus delivery for a new Clio. Not bad.

Stky10

jank wrote: »

Not something we need right now, there are not that many people who will go from a 10 year old car to a brand new one. I cant see this being a success.

Exactly. If you're driving around a 10 year old car, its very highly likely you either can't afford to buy a new car, or have decided that buying a new car is economically unsound. So the uptake on this will be minimal, and so will the cost associated with it to the government. But in doing this, they can say they tried coming up with a solution to save jobs in the motor trade etc etc. So its cheap PR, for little to no cost.

flanzer

Oh look, another short term bubble created by the government. We need to get away from the ethos of making a quick buck if we are to get out of this mess.

No chance of this being a success.

alias no.9

colm_mcm wrote: »

Makes a new Clio pretty cheap then. they were advertising 1.2 Royale models for under €11k, they said the Govs scrappage would be deducted from that if it came in. so €9500 plus delivery for a new Clio. Not bad.

That advertised price for the Clio includes €1,500 scrappage and €1,500 trade in, really not sure how that works, do you have to land two junkers on their forecourt?

Cionád

alias no.9 wrote: »

That advertised price for the Clio includes €1,500 scrappage and €1,500 trade in, really not sure how that works, do you have to land two junkers on their forecourt?

And if the government give another €1,500 things really get confusing!

smash

K2 wrote: »

Of course they could just end up making petrol soooo expensive that it would be a no brainer to switch to electric cars:rolleyes:

I don't agree with electric cars being the future in Ireland for 5 reasons:

1 - ESB generate electricity from fossil fuel so it's not environmentally friendly.
2 - Because ESB uses fossil fuel, the carbon tax will be added to the cost, so they wont be cheap.
3 - you can park up a petrol/diesel car for a month, you might have to just start it but it will have fuel to drive. An electric car will loose some of it's charge... waste of money.
4 - If you run out of juice you can't go and get 5 litres of electricity to get you home!
5 - The cost to purchase wont be cheap... Even though motor tax and VRT is now Co2 based, 0 emission vehicles still have to pay both... why is that?

agent_smith

A pal of mine works in the motor trade. He was telling me that a number of people had come into his garage to buy cars for january. Out of 4 deals he said within the last week 3 were refused car loans from the banks. The scrappage scheme is a nice start... but its only a start. They need to get the banks lending (responsibly) again. Its gone from a case of lending obscene and irrational amounts to people who clearly cannot pay back, to fear of lending anything at all.

ShadowHearth

can anyone explain me how it works please....

All 10 years old cars are worth more then 1.5k eu in trade in anyway.... so how it will be good deal?

Or is it 1.5k eu on top of your trade in?

BlackWizard

It's hard to lend to people who might not have jobs next year. :mad:

Plus if you are in a job which comes across as risky especially since next year will be a really bad year for job losses, you won't be given a loan.

Now isn't the time for any stimulus packages. We just need the government to make the cuts it needs to make sooner rather than later. Keeping us in limbo means these banks/unions wont sell many loans without these uncertainty being reduced.

Cionád

ShadowHearth wrote: »

All 10 years old cars are worth more then 1.5k eu in trade in anyway.... so how it will be good deal?

The garage might not want to give you 1,500 for a 10 year old car - say a micra - cause they wont be able to sell it on for more than that.

The government are paying you to destroy your car, it will be written off. Environmentally friendly my arse.

parsi

steve06 wrote: »

I don't agree with electric cars being the future in Ireland for 5 reasons:
4 - If you run out of juice you can't go and get 5 litres of electricity to get you home!

Back to the old ways and bring a crank handle with you

ShadowHearth

Cionád wrote: »

The garage might not want to give you 1,500 for a 10 year old car - say a micra - cause they wont be able to sell it on for more than that.

The government are paying you to destroy your car, it will be written off. Environmentally friendly my arse.

right... so its basicly usless...

was thinking, that trading in mine mx5, 99" plus scrapadge deal, and take something economical like new Fiesta, untill i get anather sports car... but this 1.5k then is usless... The person who drives 10 year old punto, wount have money for brand new car anyway... and bank fill deffenetly wount give a loan...

You know what, i will get myself 740' V8 now better...

thx for answer btw!

The-Game

flanzer wrote: »

Oh look, another short term bubble created by the government. We need to get away from the ethos of making a quick buck if we are to get out of this mess.

No chance of this being a success.

A laughable thought!

Cionád

up to 1,500 scrappage scheme introduced for cars older than 10 years for all of next year

Terrible move for our economy it amounts to a subsidy for Japanese, Korean, French and German industry. It encourages people to take out MORE LOANS! It would have made more sense to reduce annual motor tax FFS!!

smash

nobody will have the money, so it doesn't really matter!

steve06

steve06 wrote: »

nobody will have the money, so it doesn't really matter!

true but they could have made it cheaper to run a car if they wante to do something real

Anan1

Deleted User wrote: »

true but they could have made it cheaper to run a car if they wante to do something real

That's never going to happen, for so many reasons.

smash

Deleted User wrote: »

true but they could have made it cheaper to run a car if they wante to do something real

He tried to... but only for electric cars who have not got loads of special treatment.

The problem is Lenihan - nobody f*cking owns one, and nobody f*cking wants one!

coolbeans

In a time of national fiscal crisis the government introduce a measure that will further skew our balance of payments. I know the motor industry is going through a lot of pain at the moment but this is insane. Most of the money will go to France, Germany and Japan. As for the "Irish motor industry" I feel for those who are losing jobs but surely other sectors of the economy are more deserving than car dealers many of whom expanded too quickly and provided extremely poor customer service. There are a few notable exceptions on here but come on...a scrappage scheme - madness!! We don't even make fcuking cars!

R.O.R

steve06 wrote: »

He tried to... but only for electric cars who have not got loads of special treatment.

The problem is Lenihan - nobody f*cking owns one, and nobody f*cking wants one!

Nobody can f*cking run one as we all live too far away from work because of stupid house prices.

zilog_jones

As someone who currently owns an 11 year old car and is planning on replacing it in the near future with a car of similar age (not a hope in hell I could buy a new car in the forseeable future), this is a terrible idea as it will mean (assuming anyone does get their loan approved) there will be less old cars on the road for me!

As others have said, this is a terrible idea - we have no motor industry (besides some parts manufacturing, but they seem to be all closing down anyway) and it's not good for the environment (scrapping a car involves a lot of energy as opposed to re-using; manufacturing a new car also uses a lot of energy). Its only purpose is an attempt at saving the dealers and their ridiculous glass houses...

R.O.R

coolbeans wrote: »

In a time of national fiscal crisis the government introduce a measure that will further skew our balance of payments. I know the motor industry is going through a lot of pain at the moment but this is insane. Most of the money will go to France, Germany and Japan. As for the "Irish motor industry" I feel for those who are losing jobs but surely other sectors of the economy are more deserving than car dealers many of whom expanded too quickly and provided extremely poor customer service. There are a few notable exceptions on here but come on...a scrappage scheme - madness!! We don't even make fcuking cars!

As pointed out in another thread, the tax take from the car industry is massive. The €1,500 scrappage is a reduction in VRT, but there is still a lot of tax left on new cars that the scheme will be more than revenue neutral.

From the only new car invoice I can lay my hands on at the moment, 30% of the invoice price is tax - and that's a group A VRT car.

While there is a lot of money exiting the country to foreign manufacturer's, I can't think of anything else that has a 30% return for the Revenue.

smash

R.O.R wrote: »

Nobody can f*cking run one as we all live too far away from work because of stupid house prices.

by the time we get to work we'll have to charge it again!

McSpud

Aside from how the E1,500 discount is applied does the 10 year old HAVE TO BE scrapped? Can the car dealer resell the car? E1,500 will likely only convince someone to buy a Panda or similar cheap car. It won't get many extra sales of 20k+ cars.

The government will probably get extra tax revenue but it will also lose out on some tax from fuel as the cars will be more efficient.

I heard that in the US the cash-for-clunkers scheme meant the scrappage of many old cars which meant less old cars available to those people on a small budget.

R.O.R

steve06 wrote: »

by the time we get to work we'll have to charge it again!

You must live fairly close to work so :P

I'd spend most of my day stopped on the M50.................oh wait :rolleyes:

smash

McSpud wrote: »

Aside from how the E1,500 discount is applied does the 10 year old HAVE TO BE scrapped? Can the car dealer resell the car? E1,500 will likely only convince someone to buy a Panda or similar cheap car. It won't get many extra sales of 20k+ cars.

The government will probably get extra tax revenue but it will also lose out on some tax from fuel as the cars will be more efficient.

I heard that in the US the cash-for-clunkers scheme meant the scrappage of many old cars which meant less old cars available to those people on a small budget.

It HAS to be scrapped unfortunately!

macplaxton

ANNEX F
Scrappage Scheme
The Scrappage Scheme will run from 1 January 2010 to 31 December 2010. VRT relief of up to €1,500 will be available. The VRT relief will be provided where a new Category A car is purchased of emission Bands
A or B (i.e. with CO2 emissions of 140g/km or less) and an old car is scrapped.

The car being scrapped:

• Must have been registered in the State in the name of the purchaser of the new car for at least 18 months previous to the date of scrappage,
• Must be 10 years old or more from the date of first registration,
• Must be scrapped after 9 December 2009,
• Must be scrapped within 60 days of the date of the new car being registered, or have been scrapped within the previous 60 days of the date of the new car being registered, provided the date of scrappage is after 9 December 2009,
• Must have a valid NCT certificate of roadworthiness, or one that has expired no more than 90 days prior to issue of the Certificate of Destruction; or documentation to indicate that it has been presented for and failed an NCT roadworthiness test in the previous 6 months;
• Must have been insured for use on the road for at least 12 months in the 18 months prior to the issue of the Certificate of Destruction.

Being ‘scrapped’ means that the old car has been taken to an official End of Life Vehicles (ELV) authorised treatment facility and a Certificate of Destruction is issued by the facility in respect of the car.

Further detailed information on the operation of the scheme will be posted on the Revenue website in the coming days.

Budget 2010:Annex F (PDF)

Pick over the details...

rocky

It'll be like the Home Choice Loan scheme for mortgages, if people got refused an application by banks, they could apply to the government. Result? 4 applications for a scheme that cost 400k+ to administer.

smash

yes yes... with t's & C's like that the motor industry is going to get a massive boost! :rolleyes:

To everyone here who said it will work... read that properly and try to convince yourselves again!

THEDONWALDO

So what if we dont have an indigenous motor industry! At the end of the day, dealerships, independent garages, motor factors etc create jobs in this country that contribute directly and indirectly to the taxes for running this country and also contribute to peoples well being. i have never seen so much negativity towards the motor trade and it makes me very angry...we werent all robbing bast##ds, i would give my right arm to be employed in the trade again (lost job due to liquidation 2 weeks ago).

Dont get me wrong, I know there are other sectors that are in the sh=ts at the moment, but it is up to each of those sectors to lobby for some sort of stimulation package. Again, the motor trade wasnt alone in having a few robbing leeches!

Sorry for the rant, im just tired of all the negativity

Thanks

R.O.R

steve06 wrote: »

yes yes... with t's & C's like that the motor industry is going to get a massive boost! :rolleyes:

To everyone here who said it will work... read that properly and try to convince yourselves again!

They are pretty restrictive T's & C's, but they are very similar to the UK scheme except it's 18 months here rather than 12 months there, and it's only €1,500. I'd say a lot of manufacturer's who want to increase market share will offer a special "we'll match the goverement's scrappage - get €3,000 off a new [insert jap / korean / french box here]".

It has increased new car sales in the UK despite being restricitve, but that might also be due to lower car prices than here.

Put it this way - it's not going to hurt new cars sales.

zilog_jones

THEDONWALDO wrote: »

So what if we dont have an indigenous motor industry! At the end of the day, dealerships, independent garages, motor factors etc create jobs in this country that contribute directly and indirectly to the taxes for running this country...

Independant garages and motor factors would get more service from owners of old cars than people with new cars that are still under warranty. The same goes for parts shops and garages of main dealers to an extent, as new cars have such long service intervals.

Redisle

I can't see this working.

Cmon, it's "up to" 1500 euro vrt off. Chances are you get paid 1500 to scrap an early '00 car. What would you get for something older? That Early '00 car would most likely be worth more if sold privately anyway and the buyer could then push for a cash discount.

Also, I don't see why someone (who could afford a new car) would jump at the chance of buying a brand new car if they have been happily driving a 10+ year old car up to now.. I don't think "up to 1500" is anywhere near enough of an incentive to make these people budge tbh..
Some people just drive old cars because they don't see the point in buying new cars.. and because they don't care about image or the "plate"..again, this dosen't effect them in any way.

What about new/young drivers, the people most likely to be wanting to buy these 10+ year old cars. If the scheme was effective (which I don't think it will be) that means there are less cars available for younger drivers who may not be able to afford something newer than '00. If that then leads the young driver to abandon the idea of getting a car the government loses Road tax, fuel tax etc etc from that person..

dochasach

Redisle wrote: »

I can't see this working.

...that means there are less cars available for younger drivers who may not be able to afford something newer than '00. If that then leads the young driver to abandon the idea of getting a car the government loses Road tax, fuel tax etc etc from that person..

The law assumes that newer cars produce less carbon/mile than older cars. This isn't necessarily true and I'd be willing to bet that the average mpg of cars < 10 years old (e.g. hummer, ford explorers, american style SUVs) is lower than the average mpg of cars 10-15 years old (puntos, fiats, micras...). Even within the same make/model/engine size, my 87 got much better mpg than my 95. Crushing and rebuilding a perfectly servicable car also takes energy and produces CO2 pollution.

For the rare individual who has a 10+ year old car they've kept for >18 months and can afford a new one, maybe this will convince them to do it a few months earlier than otherwise and keep a dealer happy for another week.

Early adopters of hybrids and high mpg and modern vehicles are punished because they didn't keep their bangers long enough.

Those who have to drive a banger 60+ miles/day because previous govt. meddling produced a property bubble which led to sprawling far flung ghettos will not benefit. They are the least likely to be able to afford a new car.

Those who are considering buying a car but who can't afford a new one will be punished because the cost of all used cars will rise as many perfectly serviceable cars will be crushed just so govt can say "We're doing something"

Japanese, German, British, French, Korean and Italian car companies may benefit from this daft scheme as they have from similar schemes in the U.S. and U.K.

At best it will be a regressive tax as was the property bubble. But this time I don't think it will work.

Volvoboy

3 Motors i have.

The years are
94
96
97

The 1997 is too new for me.

:pac:

VolvoMan

Volvoboy wrote: »

3 Motors i have.

The years are
94
96
97

The 1997 is too new for me.

:pac:

I'm totally anti-scrappage myself, but with that said, I wouldn't mind if a Carina scrappage scheme was introduced!:p

dellas1979

Some people on here are really "niching" car buyers for want of a better word. I have been waiting almost a year for them to introduce something. In the mean time, a lot of people, including myself, have been saving their money - yep Im one of them. Watch people come out of the woodwork on this one.

My situation is I drive a 97 car - it failed its NCT last week - it would cost me hundreds to fix it - plus 50 for initial test and 28 for any additional tests. If car was NCTed for 2 years, it still wouldnt be worth 1500.

The only question I have is if you can haggle further on a brand new car on a scrappage deal (I would be cash buyer). Say a car is 14000 -1500 scrappage = 12500 - could I haggle further.

colm_mcm

absolutely. I reckon the garage are essentially treating it as a straight deal. the trade in is effectively between you and the government.