Shawn Michaels

Paulegend

besides 2007 when he held the tag title with Cena

the last time he held any title was 2002(heavy weight)



why does someone this good get opportunities but never get to hold some gold. come on HBK is a legend right up there with Taker and in my opinion is better.
now i know he has said in the past that he is happy to "job" to raise the profile of younger talent but cant he hold the title aswell? he is a better "face of the company" than Cena. could you imagine him in a "rock or stone cold" role

he could do it is there a reason he isnt???

Rjd2

Paulegend wrote: »

besides 2007 when he held the tag title with Cena

the last time he held any title was 2002(heavy weight)



why does someone this good get opportunities but never get to hold some gold. come on HBK is a legend right up there with Taker and in my opinion is better.
now i know he has said in the past that he is happy to "job" to raise the profile of younger talent but cant he hold the title aswell? he is a better "face of the company" than Cena. could you imagine him in a "rock or stone cold" role

he could do it is there a reason he isnt???

Well I dont think he wants the belt, I imagine with Hunter his best mate he could have it with the click of his fingers.;)
Then of course their is the house show issue as well as he is very selective of the ones he works unlike Cena who is a total workhorse.

Paulegend

i suppose and i did think that before but look at Taker he doesnt want to do house shows either?

and cena is a corporate bitch:D

Rud3Bwoy

Hbk does not want the title,they did offer a title reign to hbk and he declined it before

more of a schedule for him,no reason to push him as he is over.

taker does not do house shows as he is not in good shape any more has to take it easy

rossie1977

maybe he is trying to clear his conscience after years of hogging the titles and refusing to job BEFORE he found god

davrho

Michaels sells without need for titles.

His talent alone is the selling point. Some meaning less garb might fool some of the fans...........

rossie1977

Rud3Bwoy wrote: »

taker does not do house shows as he is not in good shape any more has to take it easy

taker did the recent house shows in europe, then again the tour was named after him

Rud3Bwoy

rossie1977 wrote: »

taker did the recent house shows in europe, then again the tour was named after him

yea that might be the only time he does a house show,he never has done a house show here in NYC.

Shaneomac

Paulegend wrote: »

now i know he has said in the past that he is happy to "job" to raise the profile of younger talent but cant he hold the title aswell?

In fairness. Other than Cena, HHH and Taker, Shawn hasnt really jobbed clean to anyone in the past couple of years.

That being said, I personally idolise Michaels and would love him to get a few reigns with the main titles. But he really doesnt need them as his feuds have nearly all been top notch the past couple of years especially his run with Jericho which I think has was the best storyline I can think of since the Evolution saga and in my opinion better. Heres to a few more great feuds at least from the show stopper.

Nody

Hmm, I wonder if he could end up in a feud as baby face with Sheamus (friend of HHH etc.) to culminate at Summerslam. Shawn's work capability and mic work would do wonders to sell Sheamus as the big bad guy and help recover from the Cena beat down (and if not they can feud for the belt).

Reganio 2

As has been said Shawn dosn't need the belt, unlike Takerm Shawn dosn't have to stroke his own ego (Seriously people give out about HHH for his backstage politics when Taker is equally as bad) I think he is just enjoying working with his best mate HHH and is just taking it easy. I would love for him to turn heel before he retires though. HBK heel is just amazing.

Rud3Bwoy

Reganio 2 wrote: »

As has been said Shawn dosn't need the belt, unlike Takerm Shawn dosn't have to stroke his own ego (Seriously people give out about HHH for his backstage politics when Taker is equally as bad) I think he is just enjoying working with his best mate HHH and is just taking it easy. I would love for him to turn heel before he retires though. HBK heel is just amazing.

To be fair i highly doubt taker used to be politics to win the title belt.and if he did,so what?he has been around for how many years and won the title how many times?

Rud3Bwoy

Shaneomac wrote: »

In fairness. Other than Cena, HHH and Taker, Shawn hasnt really jobbed clean to anyone in the past couple of years.

That being said, I personally idolise Michaels and would love him to get a few reigns with the main titles. But he really doesnt need them as his feuds have nearly all been top notch the past couple of years especially his run with Jericho which I think has was the best storyline I can think of since the Evolution saga and in my opinion better. Heres to a few more great feuds at least from the show stopper.

um he jobbed to kennedy on raw also which was a great match btw

Reganio 2

Rud3Bwoy wrote: »

To be fair i highly doubt taker used to be politics to win the title belt.and if he did,so what?he has been around for how many years and won the title how many times?

Well Taker gave out to Punk that he wasn't "dressed" like a champion should be (This is all rumour btw but its fairly accepted as far as I know) and subsequently about a week later in Hell in a Cell Taker and Punk were the 1st match and Punk was made look like a jobber.

He has won the main titles enough times (About 7 I think) and he has been there so many years so its time to be putting over these younger chaps. Let them have the title (Even though I don't like him) people like Punk need the title, Taker dosn't.

Sure even look at Michelle McCool she is squashing the entire women's division just cause she is going out with Taker.

Rud3Bwoy

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well Taker gave out to Punk that he wasn't "dressed" like a champion should be (This is all rumour btw but its fairly accepted as far as I know) and subsequently about a week later in Hell in a Cell Taker and Punk were the 1st match and Punk was made look like a jobber.

He has won the main titles enough times (About 7 I think) and he has been there so many years so its time to be putting over these younger chaps. Let them have the title (Even though I don't like him) people like Punk need the title, Taker dosn't.

Sure even look at Michelle McCool she is squashing the entire women's division just cause she is going out with Taker.

Well Taker gave out to Punk that he wasn't "dressed" like a champion should be (This is all rumour btw but its fairly accepted as far as I know) and subsequently about a week later in Hell in a Cell Taker and Punk were the 1st match and Punk was made look like a jobber.


And punk has not had crap title reigns before he faced taker?or jobbed before that for the belt right after winning it.

and to be fair the the hell in a cell match was back and fourth it was not a complete squash i was there live to,you have to remember 3 hell in a cell matches they have to space them out can't have back to back hiac matches.

7 title reigns for the amount of time taker has been there is nothing,and taker reigns are never that long,trust me you can expect to see taker drop the title before mania.

Penn

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Well Taker gave out to Punk that he wasn't "dressed" like a champion should be (This is all rumour btw but its fairly accepted as far as I know) and subsequently about a week later in Hell in a Cell Taker and Punk were the 1st match and Punk was made look like a jobber.

I think this has been debunked so to speak. Word is it was Matt Hardy who said about the way Punk was dressed and Taker requested the first match and for it to be short due to his injury. But this is also rumour I suppose. None of us know what really happened.

To be honest though, I can't really think of the last person Taker put over. At least Shawn did help put Legacy over.

Rud3Bwoy

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

I think this has been debunked so to speak. Word is it was Matt Hardy who said about the way Punk was dressed and Taker requested the first match and for it to be short due to his injury. But this is also rumour I suppose. None of us know what really happened.

To be honest though, I can't really think of the last person Taker put over. At least Shawn did help put Legacy over.

taker looked really bad at hell in a cell,his back was taped up majorly not sure if you guys seen that on tv or not but being there live and having some great seats i seen his back.

Reganio 2

Rud3Bwoy wrote: »

And punk has not had crap title reigns before he faced taker?or jobbed before that for the belt right after winning it.

and to be fair the the hell in a cell match was back and fourth it was not a complete squash i was there live to,you have to remember 3 hell in a cell matches they have to space them out can't have back to back hiac matches.

7 title reigns for the amount of time taker has been there is nothing,and taker reigns are never that long,trust me you can expect to see taker drop the title before mania.

It dosn't matter what Punk had done before, he was getting makor heat in WWE for a change and people were seeing him as his old self and that completly ruined his momentum and he went from holding the title to in a feud with a referee basically.

I can guarantee you though that if it wasn't for what had happened earlier, that match would never have been on first.

It dosn't matter how long his reigns. I do agree that he could of had more but not while he fading now, he can hardly wrestle. Kane has been there for years and has only had 1 title reign for like a day or something. So should they throw the title onto him for a few times to build up his reigns?

Ah I didn't know that Paddy I thought it was just accepted that it was Taker didn't hear anything about Hardy in it.

Penn

Reganio 2 wrote: »

It dosn't matter what Punk had done before, he was getting makor heat in WWE for a change and people were seeing him as his old self and that completly ruined his momentum and he went from holding the title to in a feud with a referee basically.

I can guarantee you though that if it wasn't for what had happened earlier, that match would never have been on first.

It dosn't matter how long his reigns. I do agree that he could of had more but not while he fading now, he can hardly wrestle. Kane has been there for years and has only had 1 title reign for like a day or something. So should they throw the title onto him for a few times to build up his reigns?

Ah I didn't know that Paddy I thought it was just accepted that it was Taker didn't hear anything about Hardy in it.

Well like I say, its all unconfirmed reports I think.

As for Kane, I think Kane has refused to hold the title on numerous occasions. He wants to help push younger stars. Which doesn't make a lick of sense seeing as how he beat Chavo in 9 seconds for the ECW title at Wrestlemania 24, then dropped it to Mark Henry after a few months. I would like to see Kane get the title one last time though. Even just for a month. But I'm kinda a Kane fan, so I would say that anyway

As for Shawn Michaels, was I the only one who was disappointed that when DX reformed (again), they didn't make a new DX Army. In the same way that when Michaels left, HHH brought in X-pac and the New Age Outlaws. If they really want to use DX to push new stars, I think they missed a great opportunity. I like what they did with Legacy, but they should have brought in new members and have a powerful stable DX again I think

Reganio 2

Yep, I thought they were gonna go down that route as well its a cheap easy way to get them over. Someone like even Evan Bourne, MVP and (I can't think of a young face at the minute) but people like that that can do with the easy overness. Instead of it just being them 2 it would have made sense to have a few people in on it.

Rud3Bwoy

on a side note it is not the first time wwe has put on a big match as its first match during a ppv

Penn

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Yep, I thought they were gonna go down that route as well its a cheap easy way to get them over. Someone like even Evan Bourne, MVP and (I can't think of a young face at the minute) but people like that that can do with the easy overness. Instead of it just being them 2 it would have made sense to have a few people in on it.

I think MVP would have been great in DX. Maybe MVP and Henry, then Kofi too. Would have been pretty cool I reckon

Reganio 2

Ah Kofi that's who I was thinking of, they could have got rid of his little Jamacian gimmick and given him a bit of comedy it would have worked well. But they are doing well with Kofi at the moment so its ok

Penn

Reganio 2 wrote: »

Ah Kofi that's who I was thinking of, they could have got rid of his little Jamacian gimmick and given him a bit of comedy it would have worked well. But they are doing well with Kofi at the moment so its ok

Even do exactly the same as they're doing now with Kofi, but Kofi then has backup to help cancel out Legacy. Makes the fued more about Kofi and Orton. Happy with the way they're going with Kofi now though, I agree.

Paulegend

Rud3Bwoy wrote: »

To be fair i highly doubt taker used to be politics to win the title belt.and if he did,so what?he has been around for how many years and won the title how many times?

ive been just thinking about it there and the only MAIN EVENTERS at Raw are

babyfaces
HBK
HHH
Cena

Heels
Orton
Rhodes
DiBiase


then the almost are

babyfaces
MVP
Henry
Kofi

Heels
Swagger
Miz


no wonder they need the likes of Seamus, Bourne and masters to come through. the card is pretty weak considering that the top guys rarely worked a weekly episode of RAW or Smackdown 8 years ago

Reganio 2

I wouldn't consider Rhodes and DiBiase as Main Eventers yet either. Upper Midcarders at the most not M.E. though.

I would say Big Show is Main Event heel.

Paulegend

Reganio 2 wrote: »

I wouldn't consider Rhodes and DiBiase as Main Eventers yet either. Upper Midcarders at the most not M.E. though.

I would say Big Show is Main Event heel.

well i dont think ted or cody are main event but as legacy i def think they are(depending on who their facing obviously)

i never included big show because jerishow is working both shows to add moe depth. they are practically in 2 storylines

JohnMc1

Paulegend wrote: »

besides 2007 when he held the tag title with Cena

the last time he held any title was 2002(heavy weight)



why does someone this good get opportunities but never get to hold some gold. come on HBK is a legend right up there with Taker and in my opinion is better.
now i know he has said in the past that he is happy to "job" to raise the profile of younger talent but cant he hold the title aswell? he is a better "face of the company" than Cena. could you imagine him in a "rock or stone cold" role

he could do it is there a reason he isnt???

When you really look at HBK's career you realize that at this stage of his career he doesn't need the belt anymore. Guys like Cena and Orton need the belt to get over with the fans but HBK doesn't need the belt.

SlickRic

Paulegend wrote: »

he is a better "face of the company" than Cena.

no he's not.

Cena sells more than HBK could ever hope to.

as much as many of us would like to believe otherwise.

Cena is also as clean as a whistle, an all-American guy, with good looks and a friendly demeanour. he also works harder than anyone.

there is no better 'face for the company'.

Paulegend wrote: »

and cena is a corporate bitch:D

no.

he just works damn hard.

Paulegend

SlickRic wrote: »

no he's not.

Cena sells more than HBK could ever hope to.

as much as many of us would like to believe otherwise.

Cena is also as clean as a whistle, an all-American guy, with good looks and a friendly demeanour. he also works harder than anyone.

there is no better 'face for the company'.



no.

he just works damn hard.

ok it would be too easy for me to point out that HBK has over 10 years on Cena yea?? HBK has been the driving force behind WWE. he is one of the top guys that appear on tv. he deserves to be where he is. the guy works very hard and doesnt mind "jobbing" to bring through youngsters like "orton"(yes he was a big factor). i mean HBK is so selfless he jobbed for taker and Jbl.

as for selling more...........................

HBK is the main eventer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he can sell shows he has tons of merchendise and dvds.

what exactly makes you think that mr "you cant see me" sells more??? maybe to the younger audience. but HBK was always large and in charge my friend.


yes i agree with alot of you that he doesnt need the title but come on he is jobbing for long enough. he has been at the top for the best part of 15 years and has very very few titles to his name except for being the first grand slam champion

JohnMc1

Nothing against Cena. Sure he sells to kids but time will tell if he truly has staying power. The kids that buy his merchandise today will grow up and Cena appeal to them as much as he used to.

Paulegend

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Nothing against Cena. Sure he sells to kids but time will tell if he truly has staying power. The kids that buy his merchandise today will grow up and Cena appeal to them as much as he used to.

do you really think that could be true........... o please let it be true:D

JohnMc1

Paulegend wrote: »

do you really think that could be true........... o please let it be true:D

Anything's possible. He already gets a half and half response. The fans are fickle and Vince is even worse.

Rjd2

Sorry for coming across like the Melz but just out of curiosity has HBK ever actually drew serious money as champion?

JohnMc1

Rjd2 wrote: »

Just out of curiosity has HBK ever actually drew serious money as champion?

I'm sure he did. I'm not sure if he was Hogan or Austin level but he did draw money. Don't forget during the post-Hogan pre-Austin eras it was all Bret and Shawn. They both carried the WWE during that time. So they had to have drawn.

flahavaj

Rjd2 wrote: »

Sorry for coming across like the Melz but just out of curiosity has HBK ever actually drew serious money as champion?

I was always under the impression he was never a major draw in his own right in the way that Hogan, Austin, Rock or to a lesser extent Cena has been. When he and Bret were the Main Eventers business was in the midst of a massive slump. It was Austin and the birth of Attitude that made Vince a billionaire, and really started drawing money for Vince.

SlickRic

Paulegend wrote: »

ok it would be too easy for me to point out that HBK has over 10 years on Cena yea?? HBK has been the driving force behind WWE. he is one of the top guys that appear on tv. he deserves to be where he is. the guy works very hard and doesnt mind "jobbing" to bring through youngsters like "orton"(yes he was a big factor). i mean HBK is so selfless he jobbed for taker and Jbl.

as for selling more...........................

HBK is the main eventer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

he can sell shows he has tons of merchendise and dvds.

you're talking to one of the biggest HBK fans there is.

i'd love him to get another title run. he is the greatest ever.

my post was in reference to the John Cena part of your post.

he has drawn and made more money for Vince than Shawn ever did as champion. and he should be respected for that.

shawn has awesome longevity, but i wasn't arguing against that.

Cena has been given the gimmick he has now, because that is the direction Vince chose to take the company. he was one of the biggest things in the company before PG came in, and is the biggest thing in the company now.

he can wrestle, he can perfrom, and is one of the best representatives for the company WWE have ever had. he works damn hard and has all the time in the world for his fans. everyone, including the uber hard-to-impress HHH, says he's a phenomenal representative.

HBK is the man, i hope he gets one more run, but don't run Cena down in the process. it's not his fault the entire product has changed in the last few years.

Paulegend

well when he was champ he always had close fought matchs. he never had this "superhero" effect that Cena seems to have. hbk was always known as an inovater. some of his fights where unbelievable. a 60 minute iron man match was unheard of in WWF at the time. he made the ladder match what it is. you have to understand that wrestling was still looking at a leg drop from the top ropes as a finisher. to have a ladder match it was amazing. when he came down from the roof.

the one thing you cant say is Shawn Michaels doesnt deserve to be the legend he is. he has done way more for the company and the business of wrestling than hogan, HHH, taker or Cena. all of whom made a huge contribution but shawns passion alone. his drive to make the show the top show. he doesnt mind building up younger generation stars. maybe because of what happened in montreal. but i think alot is because when he thought hed never be able to wrestle again and his daughter was born it gave him a new life he went into his whole reborn christian lifestyle. but the guy is a legend in every sense of the word.

just because Cena may go out and lift up HHH and Big Show at the same time. do you really think if it wasnt scripted he would have a chance???

HBK fights and makes it entertaining. thats why he was always bleeding nearly every match:D why do you think he is respected so much by taker by flair and even though what happened brett still respects him.

shawn does deserve a title run(and i mean a real dominint one) before he leaves our screens. lets not wait til he can barely move and looks like flair.

sure he doesnt want to work house shows but the champ shouldnt work them anyway. in fact the champ never fought on RAW in the attitude era(and the couple years after). at least not more than once a month. remember HHH went a year with the title and rarely fought on tv except for PPVs


if we had the real HBK as champ it could sell PPVs it would sell merchendise. only prob is with HHH around they would just fued and we have already seen that

Paulegend

but wherent we all slattin Cena just 2 years ago for having basically 5 wrestling moves(exadgeration)

cena needs to fight a wrestler because he cant work a match by himself.

and isnt Cena hated as much as he is loved by the WWE universe and even hated more in the backroom at WWE?

in fact the only reason he is so highly rated is because he gets on with HHH and does everything and says everything that the corporate guys want him to.


but i do agree with you that as a PG show he seems the best candidate.

in my opinion we need to get rid of the PG gimmick(guys aimed at the kiddy audience) such as Cena, CM Punk ands Rey Mysterio. rebrand them but the way they are promoted is sickening.



and P.S

i am the greatest Michael Shawn Hickenbottom fan EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

flahavaj

Paulegend wrote: »

but wherent we all slattin Cena just 2 years ago for having basically 5 wrestling moves(exadgeration)

cena needs to fight a wrestler because he cant work a match by himself.

and isnt Cena hated as much as he is loved by the WWE universe and even hated more in the backroom at WWE?

in fact the only reason he is so highly rated is because he gets on with HHH and does everything and says everything that the corporate guys want him to.


but i do agree with you that as a PG show he seems the best candidate.

in my opinion we need to get rid of the PG gimmick(guys aimed at the kiddy audience) such as Cena, CM Punk ands Rey Mysterio. rebrand them but the way they are promoted is sickening.



and P.S

i am the greatest Michael Shawn Hickenbottom fan EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry horse, but all that bolded part is complete bollox.

michael.etc...

Paulegend wrote: »

cena needs to fight a wrestler because he cant work a match by himself.

Eh?

There's some guzzling the HBK Kool Aid going on these parts here.

Great, great, great, great, outstandingly awesome peformer- not a draw as a champion in his day (but then again- the WWE product in general wasn't drawing), but in no way should he be considered a more important, or central figure than Cena in 2009, he just isn't a guy that needs, or should be "the guy".

sure he doesnt want to work house shows but the champ shouldnt work them anyway. in fact the champ never fought on RAW in the attitude era(and the couple years after). at least not more than once a month. remember HHH went a year with the title and rarely fought on tv except for PPVs

Honestly, some of these statements floating about are just plain bizarre.

Paulegend

ok you guys are slating what im saying and thats cool but you aint saying why you think im wrong???

yes what im saying about the champ never worked a fight on raw or smackdown(as in rarely unless it was the week leading to a ppx) that is true. i remember weeks and months of HHH coming out attacking some1 or just doing the whole cutting a promo and that would be his nights work.

i assume you guys are old enough to at least remember the attitude era. and i mean not just have vage memories and have info that you might have read about it or seen dvds. im not slagging ye im just trying to see if ye can remember it or if ive been taking those magic beans again:D


again yea i understand Cena seems to be "the man" but thats only because WWE say he is. come on he was turning up at shows to more boos than cheers. if im not mistaken wasnt a audio(of audience cheering) often played to drown out the boos. when the rebranded him as "gi joe" they where trying to get as many fans as possible. dont get me wrong alot of people love him. but they are all right wing democrates or kids. which is WWEs target audience(but not just their audience)

Y2J_MUFC

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

As for Kane, I think Kane has refused to hold the title on numerous occasions. He wants to help push younger stars. Which doesn't make a lick of sense seeing as how he beat Chavo in 9 seconds for the ECW title at Wrestlemania 24, then dropped it to Mark Henry after a few months. I would like to see Kane get the title one last time though. Even just for a month. But I'm kinda a Kane fan, so I would say that anyway

I totally agree. I'd love Kane to hold the title, even if it was just a short run. I've always been a fan of his. He had everything to be a real main-eventer, but they missed the balance on him completely.

JP Liz

On RAW the title is switched to Cena or Orton or HHH and thats it

I'd love to see HBK champion again and as stated in other posts he dont need it but him headlining a main event as champion would be nice to see and imagine all the new feuds for him Punk, Morrison, DiBiase or Jericho (again) loved their feud

davrho

Paulegend wrote: »

again yea i understand Cena seems to be "the man" but thats only because WWE say he is. come on he was turning up at shows to more boos than cheers. if im not mistaken wasnt a audio(of audience cheering) often played to drown out the boos. when the rebranded him as "gi joe" they where trying to get as many fans as possible. dont get me wrong alot of people love him. but they are all right wing democrates or kids. which is WWEs target audience(but not just their audience)

The WWE dont say Cena is the man the customers do. The people who buy his merchandise keep him on his pedestal. WWE can only promote so far then its up to Cena.

The fans that boo Cena are scoring an own goal. Crowd reation positive or negative is a good thing for any wrestler.

I was asked to bring back 5 Cena t-shirts from wm24. Only 1 was a kids size.

Paulegend

davrho wrote: »

The WWE dont say Cena is the man the customers do. The people who buy his merchandise keep him on his pedestal. WWE can only promote so far then its up to Cena.

The fans that boo Cena are scoring an own goal. Crowd reation positive or negative is a good thing for any wrestler.

I was asked to bring back 5 Cena t-shirts from wm24. Only 1 was a kids size.

yea but the other 4 where big kids wherent they:D sorry just kidden. yes i know there are fans out there. and im sure you are a big fan. but im betting your in no way over the age of 24 anyway. no disrespect intended. what i mean is people that would be that age would have a memory of the 90s WWF and real wrestlers. how much of a mockery vince has made of it by promoting the likes of goody-2-shoes cena. wrestlers like Cena are compared to stevie richards and Irwin R shistner.

but im being over critical i know i am.

lets give cena his due. he has worked hard to get where he is and he is trying to start the era of "Cena-mania"(wwe are promoting him in comparison to the way they promoted Hulk Hogan. as in over comes all obstacles. super human strength. all american) he does what is asked of himk and deserves alot of credit. any critisism should be aimed at WWE not Cena.

that been said......... i dont think he is a great wrestler. i mentioned before his inability to work a match. here is some examples...........

this clip is putting cena down so dont take the clip as the original uploader meant. instead look at the fact cena needs the miz to work the match until Cena magically gains that "hulk-a-mania super strenght" to win the match.

i also said he isnt liked by most of the WWE universe
here is cena returning at royal rumble. this is unedited(at least i didnt edit it). if you notice the entrance music is notably louder(as usual for a cena entrance) to drown out the boos in the crowd. there are people cheering but thats very much drowned out by boos. people are even booing in his face. this isnt even the worst time it happened. remember montreal.

ok there you go this is my eveidence that im submitting on the fact cena isnt as popular and shouldnt be as popular. he gets promotion only from WWE. i have also heard from mates who travel over to alot of PPVs most years that cena merchendise is often given out free to kids. i cant prove that to you because it would be impossible so choose to ignore it if youd like. i think i have enough other proof to make my point.


also please keep in mind im not slagging you dude and its cool that you like cena. everyone is entitled to like who they want. i like HBK so obviously i want him at the top. so please just take this as my opinion and why i feel this way.

davrho

Paulegend wrote: »

. but im betting your in no way over the age of 24 anyway.

You want to bet some cash on this. I can be found proping the bar up in the Penny Hill, Lucan every weekend. Ask any of the bar staff who the big Scots eejit who goes to WM every year and they will point me out. You can hand over the cash then:pac:

Paulegend wrote: »

also please keep in mind im not slagging you dude and its cool that you like cena. everyone is entitled to like who they want.

I dont recall saying i liked Cena......

Lone Kimono

but wherent we all slattin Cena just 2 years ago for having basically 5 wrestling moves(exadgeration)

cena needs to fight a wrestler because he cant work a match by himself.

Yes many people did slate Cena a few years ago because of his gimmick and because of his in ring skills, but he has improved so much in ring over the last few years and most people now have the utmost respect for him because of his great attitude and the hard work he puts in.

and isn't Cena hated as much as he is loved by the WWE universe and even hated more in the backroom at WWE?

It could be said there is a large number of people that don't like Cena, but they would be out numbered by the amount of fans he has. Yes he gets a lot of boos every now and then but for the most part he is over massively with the fans.

in fact the only reason he is so highly rated is because he gets on with HHH and does everything and says everything that the corporate guys want him to.

No, thats completely wrong. I am not Cenas biggest fan but I can say he is so highly rated because he is the biggest star of this decade. He is the biggest draw the WWE have had since both Austin and The Rock left.

and P.S

i am the greatest Michael Shawn Hickenbottom fan

Thats OK, but don't let it cloud your judgement.

michael.etc...

Paulegend wrote: »

yea but the other 4 where big kids wherent they:D sorry just kidden. yes i know there are fans out there. and im sure you are a big fan. but im betting your in no way over the age of 24 anyway. no disrespect intended. what i mean is people that would be that age would have a memory of the 90s WWF and real wrestlers. how much of a mockery vince has made of it by promoting the likes of goody-2-shoes cena. wrestlers like Cena are compared to stevie richards and Irwin R shistner.

I'm 26, and I can appreciate how good Cena is. The 90's, and "real wrestlers"? What does that even mean?
There have always been "goody 2shoes" champs. Bruno, Backlund, Hogan, Bret, Michaels (your favourite- in 96, was a sickeningly noble hero).... Benoit (ol' Eugene's best buddy). Cena is nothing like Stevie Richards or IRS- neither of whom are/were anything like each other. Cena is a genuine superstar, IRS a superb worker in a mid-card gimmick, and Stevie, a mid-card talent working comedy gimmicks?

that been said......... i dont think he is a great wrestler. i mentioned before his inability to work a match.

He is a great wrestler. He's not the dynamite kid, or Kenta Kobashi, or Ricky Steamboat- but neither was Hulk Hogan and he was also A SUPERB wrestler. Being able to work chain-wrestling for 60 minutes is not a prerequisite for being great- entertaining the majority of the audience is however.

this clip is putting cena down so dont take the clip as the original uploader meant. instead look at the fact cena needs the miz to work the match until Cena magically gains that "hulk-a-mania super strenght" to win the match.

Judging by that, you don't understand the value of selling, especially as a babyface in peril.

here is cena returning at royal rumble. this is unedited(at least i didnt edit it). if you notice the entrance music is notably louder(as usual for a cena entrance) to drown out the boos in the crowd. there are people cheering but thats very much drowned out by boos. people are even booing in his face. this isnt even the worst time it happened. remember montreal.

At the RUmble, Cena got one of the biggest pops of his entire career. People were almost literally in shock.

ok there you go this is my eveidence that im submitting on the fact cena isnt as popular and shouldnt be as popular. he gets promotion only from WWE. i have also heard from mates who travel over to alot of PPVs most years that cena merchendise is often given out free to kids. i cant prove that to you because it would be impossible so choose to ignore it if youd like. i think i have enough other proof to make my point.

What are you trying to say with that sentence? Every wrestler who works for the WWE gets promoted by them, and to have major backing is a sign that you are considered marketable and unique- hence, popular.

Cena merchandise given out free? Erm- no. He's perhaps the biggest merc seller out there, (the only competition feasibly are Rey, DX, and Hardy), giving away his stuff would be incredibly stupid.

yes what im saying about the champ never worked a fight on raw or smackdown(as in rarely unless it was the week leading to a ppx) that is true. i remember weeks and months of HHH coming out attacking some1 or just doing the whole cutting a promo and that would be his nights work.

This is simply not true at all. You remember incorrectly. During his longest/most memorable reigns in 2000, 2002-2003, and late 2003-early 2004, and 2004-2005 (none of which was for a year as you suggested earlier) HHH defended the belt frequently on television, and when he didn't, was often involved in multi-person matches.
In 2000, whilst champion, he defended on tv against Rikishi, Taka, Hardcore Holly, Chris Jericho, Tazz, The Rock, and various others. He also competed in many matches alongside DX members, and frequently topped the card on both Smackdown and Raw. In 2002-03, he was the scourge of TV for many, opening with big promos, and also working title matches with D'Lo Brown, Bubba Ray Dudley, Ric Flair, The Hurricane etc. The same goes for his runs that lead to Wrestlemania 20 and 21. He competed in triple threats, in various matches with Eugene, Randy Orton, Shawn Michaels, Chris Benoit, and others- and the only notable time I can remember him being a prominent feature, when he wasn't wrestling, was whilst filming Blade: Trinity.

again yea i understand Cena seems to be "the man" but thats only because WWE say he is. come on he was turning up at shows to more boos than cheers. if im not mistaken wasnt a audio(of audience cheering) often played to drown out the boos. when the rebranded him as "gi joe" they where trying to get as many fans as possible. dont get me wrong alot of people love him. but they are all right wing democrates or kids. which is WWEs target audience(but not just their audience)

Truly a bizarre thing to say.
Anyone who provokes the reactions of Cena, sells the merch that he does, and delivers in the ring as he does, ensures that you're "the man". The WWE use audio piped in all the time on Smackdown- not on Raw. And it can be for any number of reasons, or reponses.

There's no denying that HBK is great, but his holding the title is a different matter. Maybe a neat little short term deal, at some point, to freshen things up, great. But now isn't the time, the belt needs stability, and Michaels is in a better spot by not being pushed into the role of "the man". Plus, he's unwilling to work more dates than any other candidates- and that's not entirely due to health reasons. But regardless, "deserving" the title is not really what the priority should be when it comes to electing champions.

Terry

paddyirishman85 wrote: »

Well like I say, its all unconfirmed reports I think.

As for Kane, I think Kane has refused to hold the title on numerous occasions. He wants to help push younger stars. Which doesn't make a lick of sense seeing as how he beat Chavo in 9 seconds for the ECW title at Wrestlemania 24, then dropped it to Mark Henry after a few months. I would like to see Kane get the title one last time though. Even just for a month. But I'm kinda a Kane fan, so I would say that anyway

As for Shawn Michaels, was I the only one who was disappointed that when DX reformed (again), they didn't make a new DX Army. In the same way that when Michaels left, HHH brought in X-pac and the New Age Outlaws. If they really want to use DX to push new stars, I think they missed a great opportunity. I like what they did with Legacy, but they should have brought in new members and have a powerful stable DX again I think

I agree with the new DX thing.
As much of a Clique mark as I am, I do feel that it's past its sell by date.

It was funny when they had competition from WCW and did the whole Huckster and Nacho Man thing. It's really just old now.

Were they to take the piss out of TNA, then it may be ok, but due to the WWE's refusal to recognise legitimate competition beyone those beating them in the ratings, it's never going to happen.

Michaels is awesome.
He can cut a promo as well as Flair, Dusty Rhodes, Austin and The Rock.
He's nowhere near himself in the current incarnation of DX and their child friendly promos.
As much as Cole (spit) and Lawler try to put them over, the pg version of DX are not a patch on the attitude era DX.

The only way we'll see the old DX is if TNA up their game and make a threat to Vince's ratings. However, that's not likely due to the fact that they are doing the exact same thing that WCW did.

The only way we'll see the old HBK is if Cena heads off to make "The Marine part 15", Orton gets injured, HHH wins the title and the writers get bored.

By the way, Scott Hall made the ladder match what it is.

If this was AH and I was still a mod there, I'd ban you for disagreeing with me. Unfortunately for me it's not.
I'll just have to face your criticism of my views.

davrho

Out of interest this is the top wwe selling merchandise

1. John Cena Never Give Up T-Shirt ($25.00)
2. Jeff Hardy My Life My Rules Ultimate DVD Package ($34.99)
3. John Cena Never Give Up YOUTH T-Shirt ($22.00)
4. Jeff Hardy My Life My Rules DVD/T-Shirt Package ($28.99)
5. D Generation X Army Skull Cap ($20.00)
6. Jeff Hardy My Life My Rules DVD ($34.95, on sale $23.58)
7. John Cena Never Give Up Sweatband Set ($12.00)
8. Jeff Hardy My Life My Rules DVD/Action Figure Package ($19.99)
9. Superstars Collectible Cup ($1.99)
10. John Cena Never Give Up Baseball Cap ($20.00)

Source wweshopzone.com


So the adult Cena t-shirt is the top seller. These "right wing democrats" (interesting take on US politics) are buying up the shirts.