Food stamp program for Ireland

amjon

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people on social welfare have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on here. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other people's way through life; it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the poor are left were they belong - in the gutter.

bean na gaeilge

Totally agree amjon!

I am so sick of our country - social welfare is more attractive than going out getting a job - why do we bother when we could have rent paid, fuel allowence and medical cards if we were on the social. I love my job - but is it worth it. I work teaching 5 days a week(temporary job - only started Sept 08), correct copies etc at the weekends, my friends who are drawing social welfare get more than my take home pay a week. They are out every weekend and are never short of money for babysitters, going out, clothes etc! Social Welfare should only give the minimum amount for people to get by. - RANT OVER ONCE AGAIN!! :mad:

Anyway... this way there might be an actual incentive to WORK!!! Food stamps would be a great idea!!

Hellrazer

amjon wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people on social welfare have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on here. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other peoples way through life, it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the poor are left were they belong - in the gutter.

What sickens me is statements like Ive highlighted above.
A lot of the new unemployed paid their taxes like yourself for years and IMO are entitled to welfare--most of them dont want to be there but cannot find jobs.

As for whether they belong in the gutter--I actually think the above post should be there in all fairness.

The_Honeybadger

amjon wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA. This would allow the government to free up cash to reduce borrowing and reduce the tax burden on the middle classes. It sickens me that people on social welfare have the money for Sky digital subscriptions, shopping trips to Newry and computers with internet connections to post their drivel on here. It has got to the stage were these people genuinely believe they deserve a reasonable middle-ish class lifestyle at the expense of the state. This may seem harsh to some but it is only fair that people that don't work live in abject poverty and are subjected to all the ills that such a lifestyle predisposes them to. I feel genuine rage that I am paying for other peoples way through life, it makes me feel genuinely ill. At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US, a country where hard work is rewarded and the poor are left were they belong - in the gutter.

My god, are you serious? The poor belong in the gutter? What about people who have lost their jobs because of the recession, do they belong in the gutter? Some of these people will find it extremely hard to get work again and they need to be helped back on their feet, not trodden into the ground and treated as unequal. Many of the people on welfare are highly skilled workers who are victims of some very poor management in this country, they have paid their PRSI contributions and contributed to society same as you. Anybody in the private sector unaffected by the recession is very lucky, lets not spit on those that are suffering. True some people abuse our welfare system but they are not a majority. If you ever find yourself out of work will you still think like this, will you refuse to apply for JB on principle?

Senna

amjon wrote: »

At the moment the only viable alternative is to move to the US

With an attitude like that you can run on, you wont be missed here. Wishing "abject poverty" on people who have lost their jobs through no fault of their own is moronic.

The SW system has many flaws, which will be tighten up on over time, hopefully resulting in a system where it benefits the unfortunate people who have been recently unemployed, allowing them time to find new employment without being thrown on the street. But at the same time cutting the career scroungers out to either find a job or fend for themselves.

bean na gaeilge

Hellrazer wrote: »

What sickens me is statements like Ive highlighted above.
A lot of the new unemployed paid their taxes like yourself for years and IMO are entitled to welfare--most of them dont want to be there but cannot find jobs.

As for whether they belong in the gutter--I actually think the above post should be there in all fairness.

Don't get me wrong - I know there are plenty newly unemployed that would prefer to work but there are so many who don't and won't- they enjoy the lifestyle and take anything thats going - some of my friends included!!! Thats what annoys me about it - I could get up in the morning and choose to go on the dole and get my rent allowence, single mothers, fuel etc and I actually would be better off but could not live like that out of choice!!

amjon

Hellrazer wrote: »

What sickens me is statements like Ive highlighted above.
A lot of the new unemployed paid their taxes like yourself for years and IMO are entitled to welfare--most of them dont want to be there but cannot find jobs.

As for whether they belong in the gutter--I actually think the above post should be there in all fairness.

I don't have a problem with some sort of safety net. My problem is that the current system allows people too much comfort. If you don't work it should be a case of abject poverty, ie. no TV, computer, microwave ect... It's tough having to go to work everyday but it should be even tougher not to. I know people will throw their hands up in the air and say it's a reccesion ect.. and thats fair enough but you should be given just enough to scrape by.

The_Honeybadger

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Totally agree amjon!

I am so sick of our country - social welfare is more attractive than going out getting a job - why do we bother when we could have rent paid, fuel allowence and medical cards if we were on the social. I love my job - but is it worth it. I work teaching 5 days a week(temporary job - only started Sept 08), correct copies etc at the weekends, my friends who are drawing social welfare get more than my take home pay a week. They are out every weekend and are never short of money for babysitters, going out, clothes etc! Social Welfare should only give the minimum amount for people to get by. - RANT OVER ONCE AGAIN!! :mad:

Anyway... this way there might be an actual incentive to WORK!!! Food stamps would be a great idea!!

You must not be doing very many hours if your friends are taking home more than you on welfare. You can be sure however that once you get established in your profession your income will far exceed theirs. If people are happy on welfare then that is very sad, I spent 4 months on the dole myself and hated every minute of it, I cant imagine why anybody would be happy about it, if that is their attitude then just remember that is all they will ever have, your income is likely to be 3-4 times theirs before very long

Daithinski

amjon wrote: »

I believe the Irish government should cut social welfare payments drastically and implement a food stamp program similar to the one currently running in the USA.

If you had any concept of poverty and the differences between relative and absolute poverty you wouldn't come out with statements like this. I recommend you educate yourself. Then you might not be so bitter.

amjon wrote: »

a country where hard work is rewarded

Hard workers in ireland reward was the dole. When they lost their jobs.

amjon wrote: »

and the poor are left were they belong - in the gutter.

IMO People that make comments like this are more suitable candidates for the gutter.

gcgirl

We have one Problem the lack of even min wage jobs!! how is one suppose to get one when they are far n few between??

Hellrazer

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Don't get me wrong - I know there are plenty newly unemployed that would prefer to work but there are so many who don't and won't- they enjoy the lifestyle and take anything thats going - some of my friends included!!! Thats what annoys me about it - I could get up in the morning and choose to go on the dole and get my rent allowence, single mothers, fuel etc and I actually would be better off but could not live like that out of choice!!

Listen mate I was nearly there in May this year through absolutely no fault of my own but for someone to make a statement like the OP`s has my blood boiling.I paid my taxes and prsi for the last 17 years since the day I left school,never claimed one penny from the social welfare even though I was entitled to some allowances a few years back (while I was working-but I still never claimed them because I didnt need them) but I`d like to think that if I did loose my job I`d be able to provide for my kids until I found a new job.

Im all for these spongers who have never worked a day in their lives or even tried to find work being thought a hard lesson but the decent person who lost their job through no fault of their own shouldnt be punished for it.

amjon

mickeyk wrote: »

Some of these people will find it extremely hard to get work again and they need to be helped back on their feet, not trodden into the ground and treated as unequal.

Unequal to what exactly? The status quo? The standard of living that all people have a God-given right to? I'm afraid that’s the problem, words like unequal and fair create lovely shades of grey. It's in these grey areas that allow people to sit in their living rooms all day watching TV and posting nonsense on the web. There should be one flat rate dole payment to supplement food stamps; irrespective of your previous history this is what you get - black and white.

bean na gaeilge

mickeyk wrote: »

You must not be doing very many hours if your friends are taking home more than you on welfare. You can be sure however that once you get established in your profession your income will far exceed theirs. If people are happy on welfare then that is very sad, I spent 4 months on the dole myself and hated every minute of it, I cant imagine why anybody would be happy about it, if that is their attitude then just remember that is all they will ever have, your income is likely to be 3-4 times theirs before very long

Well the way it is now I have part time hours - the best I could get. I work 5 days - One of my friends between dole and allowences is getting 214 dole, 150 rent allowence, 25 single mothers, 16 fuel and a tank of oil a year, and some other benefit as well as medical card, I am not even clearing 500 a week ..... do not want to give exact amount... its just depressing sometimes!

Dean820

Most people on the dole I know saved their money while they had jobs. Maybe thats why they have the internet, Sky, etc still.

gcgirl

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Well the way it is now I have part time hours - the best I could get. I work 5 days - One of my friends between dole and allowences is getting 214 dole, 150 rent allowence, 25 single mothers, 16 fuel and a tank of oil a year, and some other benefit as well as medical card, I am not even clearing 500 a week ..... do not want to give exact amount... its just depressing sometimes!

you do not get a tank of oil a yr! dole is 204.30 a week!
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/default.aspx
i'd really wish people would get their fact right before posting!

bean na gaeilge

Hellrazer wrote: »

Listen mate I was nearly there in May this year through absolutely no fault of my own but for someone to make a statement like the OP`s has my blood boiling.I paid my taxes and prsi for the last 17 years since the day I left school,never claimed one penny from the social welfare even though I was entitled to some allowances a few years back (while I was working-but I still never claimed them because I didnt need them) but I`d like to think that if I did loose my job I`d be able to provide for my kids until I found a new job.

Im all for these spongers who have never worked a day in their lives or even tried to find work being thought a hard lesson but the decent person who lost their job through no fault of their own shouldnt be punished for it.

I understand that totally - my parents were both self employed. My mother had a little restaurant in Mayo and it was only open from May to Sept - due to rates etc she had to close. My dad had a C2 and worked harder than anyone I know- both are unemployed now and cannot draw social for a certain period of time - they paid thier taxes all thier lifes and now are struggling badl. I do know where your coming from but I am referring to the people who choose to stay on dole and do not make an effort to get a job! I hope Im getting my point across properly... Im not trying to put down people who lost thier jobs! I agree with amjon ... not his statement about poor in gutter but about food stamps like he mentioned firstly!!

Hellrazer

amjon wrote: »

There should be one flat rate dole payment to supplement food stamps; irrespective of your previous history this is what you get - black and white.

Yeah and why not sterilise the poor while we`re at it so they cant add to the burden on the state.Actually lets start euthanising the long term unemployed aswell.

"Sorry mate youve been on the dole for 12 months--have to put you down-youre costing us too much"

Would that satisfy your agenda amjon?

The_Honeybadger

amjon wrote: »

Unequal to what exactly? The status quo? The standard of living that all people have a God-given right to? I'm afraid that’s the problem, words like unequal and fair create lovely shades of grey. It's in these grey areas that allow people to sit in their living rooms all day watching TV and posting nonsense on the web. There should be one flat rate dole payment to supplement food stamps; irrespective of your previous history this is what you get - black and white.

Unequal to those that are working. Food stamps isn't a bad idea but I still think you are being very cruel and unfair on those that have lost their jobs, it could just as easily have been you. What about a solicitor or some other high earner just after losing their job, they would have paid massive taxes during the boom, just because the gov pi**ed their taxes away does that mean they should now be subjected to poverty?

Arnold Layne

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Totally agree amjon!

I am so sick of our country - social welfare is more attractive than going out getting a job - why do we bother when we could have rent paid, fuel allowence and medical cards if we were on the social. I love my job - but is it worth it. I work teaching 5 days a week(temporary job - only started Sept 08), correct copies etc at the weekends, my friends who are drawing social welfare get more than my take home pay a week. They are out every weekend and are never short of money for babysitters, going out, clothes etc! Social Welfare should only give the minimum amount for people to get by. - RANT OVER ONCE AGAIN!! :mad:

Anyway... this way there might be an actual incentive to WORK!!! Food stamps would be a great idea!!

The problem is that all these quotes of the benefits to the unemployed apply only to those that sat on their 'holes during the past 10 years, not those on Job Seekers Benefit as opposed to Long Term Job Seekers Assistance, i..e those that lose he Xmas "bonus".

A fairer system would be to apply that that is used in the likes of Holland where you receive 80% of your salary for the first 6 months, thus recompensing those that have paid more taxes to be supplemented more when unemployed in the short term.

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

you do not get a tank of oil a yr! dole is 204.30 a week!
http://www.welfare.ie/EN/Pages/default.aspx
i'd really wish people would get their fact right before posting!

204 sorry I posted 214 - My friend has got a fuel benefit for the last three years - first one was a tonne of coal and the last two years her oil tank filled .... No Lie!!! and still gets 16 euro a week for fuel... presume thats ESB????

amjon

Hellrazer wrote: »

I paid my taxes and prsi for the last 17 years since the day I left school,never claimed one penny from the social welfare even though I was entitled to some allowances a few years back

Glad to hear it, however if a system was to be introduced whereby dole payment were cut then PRSI payments would be lower and/ or other public services would be improved. My original post was not designed to insult or provoke you in anyway, it was simply a forthright expression of my view on how people who spend extended time on social welfare should feel.

gcgirl

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

204 sorry I posted 214 - My friend has got a fuel benefit for the last three years - first one was a tonne of coal and the last two years her oil tank filled .... No Lie!!! and still gets 16 euro a week for fuel... presume thats ESB????

there is no such thing you get 20 a week or whatever thats it! its prob off the SVP??

The_Honeybadger

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Well the way it is now I have part time hours - the best I could get. I work 5 days - One of my friends between dole and allowences is getting 214 dole, 150 rent allowence, 25 single mothers, 16 fuel and a tank of oil a year, and some other benefit as well as medical card, I am not even clearing 500 a week ..... do not want to give exact amount... its just depressing sometimes!

There is nothing wrong with 500 a week when you are just qualified out of college IMO. I really think people need to readjust their expectations when entering the workforce, it is now an employers market and we will all be earning a bit less from now on, at least you are building a career unlike your unemployed friends.

Hellrazer

amjon wrote: »

was simply a forthright expression of my view on how people who spend extended time of social welfare should feel.

Theres plenty of professionals who are now spending extended time(actually define that for me can you--12 months,18 months??) on the social welfare and who paid massive amounts of tax in the boom years and now cant find alternate employment--should they be punished?

nesf

gcgirl wrote: »

there is no such thing you get 20 a week or whatever thats it! its prob off the SVP??

It's from the State: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/extra-social-welfare-benefits/fuel_allowance

bean na gaeilge

mickeyk wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with 500 a week when you are just qualified out of college IMO. I really think people need to readjust their expectations when entering the workforce, it is now an employers market and we will all be earning a bit less from now on, at least you are building a career unlike your unemployed friends.

Didn't say I was on 500 - didn't want to say how much.Would prefer not to. It isn't 450 either.... and I have taken two cuts since I started.... income levy and pension levy and have no job security.

amjon

Hellrazer wrote: »

Yeah and why not sterilise the poor while we`re at it so they cant add to the burden on the state.Actually lets start euthanising the long term unemployed aswell.

"Sorry mate youve been on the dole for 12 months--have to put you down-youre costing us too much"

Would that satisfy your agenda amjon?

I fail to see how you could have linked food stamps and reduced social welfare payments to state sponsored sterilization and genocide??? Your hysterical accusations only detract from your previous posts and in all honesty make you look a little dim. Why don't you go get a cup of tea and come back when you have something meaningful to contribute to this thread? If this is beyond you then perhaps the chaps on this board would like to hear about this great conspiracy: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

gcgirl

nesf wrote: »

It's from the State: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/extra-social-welfare-benefits/fuel_allowance

yes exactly what i said you get 20 a week fuel allowance, you dont get coal or oil put in to your tank along with 20 euro a week!!

teddy_303

your comments are offensive in the extreme to me OP. I sincerely with you to get your P45 this x mas, as I did last. You need to learn a lesson in this regard, and get to experience the undignified soulless existence SW offers. Had a year of it now, and god knows when it will end. Bah Humbug to you and yours. Perhaps with your lack of job security you will get to join the ranks of others to enjoy the perceived good life you condemn so readily.

bean na gaeilge

nesf wrote: »

It's from the State: http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/extra-social-welfare-benefits/fuel_allowance

Thats the one Id say...

thebman

This thread deserves the most serious of replies.

Woozle Wuzzle!

I'm sure the OP put just as much effort into thinking out their argument as I did into my reply.

The_Honeybadger

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Didn't say I was on 500 - didn't want to say how much.Would prefer not to. It isn't 450 either.... and I have taken two cuts since I started.... income levy and pension levy and have no job security.

Sorry thought you were upset at a wage of 500. Thats tough but remember it wont be forever, Im now earning 60% of what I earned last year. Got laid off in january and luckily got something else which I would have previously considered myself overqualified for, was damn glad to get it too. Not much better off than yourself but just happy to be working at the moment.

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

yes exactly what i said you get 20 a week fuel allowance, you dont get coal or oil put in to your tank along with 20 euro a week!!

Im telling you the truth.... my boyfriend has recently set up a fuel business and he has got alot of runs off social welfare for different people around the area. Tonnes of coal, pallets of briquettes and oil.... all ordered from social welfare office for people drawing the dole...

themont85

This thread made a tiny bit of sense maybe 3 years ago but not now.

gcgirl

you dont get anything other than 20 euro a week FUEL ALLOWANCE!!! you dont get any oil or coal PLEASE READ properly!!

gcgirl

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Im telling you the truth.... my boyfriend has recently set up a fuel business and he has got alot of runs off social welfare for different people around the area. Tonnes of coal, pallets of briquettes and oil.... all ordered from social welfare office for people drawing the dole...

The only people it could be is the St Vincent De Paul they are known to help people! not the social

bean na gaeilge

mickeyk wrote: »

Sorry thought you were upset at a wage of 500. Thats tough but remember it wont be forever, Im now earning 60% of what I earned last year. Got laid off in january and luckily got something else which I would have previously considered myself overqualified for, was damn glad to get it too. Not much better off than yourself but just happy to be working at the moment.

True - have to agree its nice to have something to get up to - shouldn't complain but it does make my blood boil sometimes!!! Ah just wanting to let off a bit of steam!!! Good luck with new job- a change is as good as the rest!

amjon

Arnold Layne wrote: »

The problem is that all these quotes of the benefits to the unemployed apply only to those that sat on their 'holes during the past 10 years, not those on Job Seekers Benefit as opposed to Long Term Job Seekers Assistance, i..e those that lose he Xmas "bonus".

A fairer system would be to apply that that is used in the likes of Holland where you receive 80% of your salary for the first 6 months, thus recompensing those that have paid more taxes to be supplemented more when unemployed in the short term.

That sounds great, however this is Ireland in a deep and dark recession not Holland or Gumdrop land where money grows on trees! While your plan would work in times or plenty, times of plenty would make such a policy redundant as work would be, by definition, plentiful! I proposed this theory as means of reducing financial stress on the government and/ or the middle classes. My proposal is not primarily designed to screw over those who live off the dole long term, it simply doesn’t even consider such individual as the dole is/ should not be in place to provide a long term sustainable source of livelihood.

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

The only people it could be is the St Vincent De Paul they are known to help people! not the social

Well cheques come from the department of socail welfare... Im just saying what I know.... these are the facts.... :rolleyes:

bean na gaeilge

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Well cheques come from the department of socail welfare... Im just saying what I know.... these are the facts.... :rolleyes:

Excuse me - its the department of Social and Family Affairs....

amjon

Hellrazer wrote: »

Theres plenty of professionals who are now spending extended time(actually define that for me can you--12 months,18 months??) on the social welfare and who paid massive amounts of tax in the boom years and now cant find alternate employment--should they be punished?

They should be given enough to live a very simple life on. This is a recession, all bets are off, the money is gone. People have gotten to used to the lavish Celtic tiger lifestyle. It's time to get the screw driver out and cut a few extra hole our belst because were going to need them...

gcgirl

look at welfare.ie and see what people are entitled to stories are changing from your friend to now your bf cos there is no such thing!

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

you dont get anything other than 20 euro a week FUEL ALLOWANCE!!! you dont get any oil or coal PLEASE READ properly!!

Your very ceanndána altogether... I am telling you the facts.... he is on a run at the moment.... and the cheques come from the Department of Social and Family affairs!!!!!!! PLEASE READ PROPERLY!!!!!!!!!

masteroftherealm

amjon wrote: »

That sounds great, however this is Ireland in a deep and dark recession not Holland or Gumdrop land where money grows on trees! While your plan would work in times or plenty, times of plenty would make such a policy redundant as work would be, by definition, plentiful! I proposed this theory as means of reducing financial stress on the government and/ or the middle classes. My proposal is not primarily designed to screw over those who live off the dole long term, it simply doesn’t even consider such individual as the dole is/ should not be in place to provide a long term sustainable source of livelihood.

No not having such a system drives people to emigration.

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

look at welfare.ie and see what people are entitled to stories are changing from your friend to now your bf cos there is no such thing!

My friend got her tank filled with oil - my boyfriend gets the runs from the social although he did not deliver hers - I was only making the point I knew someone personally who gets it - there are plenty people but I don't know them or thier personal situation..... only that they are on the social.... the reason I know its not my friend 'making it up' in your words - is because my bf delivers many orders a week!

masteroftherealm

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

Your very ceanndána altogether... I am telling you the facts.... he is on a run at the moment.... and the cheques come from the Department of Social and Family affairs!!!!!!! PLEASE READ PROPERLY!!!!!!!!!

Well then someone is doing something very very wrong and I think you should stop talking about it in a public forum.

bean na gaeilge

masteroftherealm wrote: »

Well then someone is doing something very very wrong and I think you should stop talking about it in a public forum.

No its certain entitlements - has to be!!

masteroftherealm

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

No its certain entitlements - has to be!!

Multiple people have pointed out to you that there is no such entitlement.

gcgirl

bean na gaeilge wrote: »

My friend got her tank filled with oil - my boyfriend gets the runs from the social although he did not deliver hers - I was only making the point I knew someone personally who gets it - there are plenty people but I don't know them or thier personal situation..... only that they are on the social.... the reason I know its not my friend 'making it up' in your words - is because my bf delivers many orders a week!

just to check i can ask a friend who actually works in the local social office and i'd say she can confirm what i have already stated !

bean na gaeilge

gcgirl wrote: »

just to check i can ask a friend who actually works in the local social office and i'd say she can confirm what i have already stated !

Fire ahead.... I am just saying what I know - maybe some people don't take the sixteen euro a week or whatever... I not arguing anymore... my point was I know people who are on the dole earning more than me - fuel or no fuel....

gcgirl

most people i know get between the 204 or less depending if they can get a day or 2 work which is taking out day wise of their SW they dont get rent allowance or fuel allowance cos they are living at home with their parents some parents are working some are not !