Pull cord on shower won't stay on any more

biko

I have an electric shower and a pull cord hanging from the ceiling. The cord allows power to the shower and the extraction fan overhead so we turn shower off after every use.

Yesterday evening it stopped working when herself went to shower. It refuses to jump to the ON position. I had used shower earlier but turned it off as usual afterwards.

Main fuse board is fine, no fuses gone. I turned mains off and on again but no joy.

Is there a fuse in the switch itself? It's looks like one of these yokes.

Bull76

Magnus wrote: »

I have an electric shower and a pull cord hanging from the ceiling. The cord allows power to the shower and the extraction fan overhead so we turn shower off after every use.

Yesterday evening it stopped working when herself went to shower. It refuses to jump to the ON position. I had used shower earlier but turned it off as usual afterwards.

Main fuse board is fine, no fuses gone. I turned mains off and on again but no joy.

Is there a fuse in the switch itself? It's looks like one of these yokes.

Hi,

Sounds like the switch is faulty. It has to switch alot of current and as a mechanical switch has a limited number of cycles before it will fail.
Firstly you or an Electrican preferable will have to isolate the power and remove the switch. Check for loose connections and arc mark's. But before that check for voltage at the switch... If voltage present and all connections were tight then it should be okay to isolate the power and remove the faulty switch and replace it with a similar rated switch. Should check for continunity on the old switch and then the new one to make sure all is okay.
Great care should be taken here as it is a large current source and if your not experienced with electricity you are in harm. Ensure power is off before you attempt to go at the switch.

biko

Sound thanks, will let an electrician look at it. Hopefully won't cost too much to sort it.

Rev. BlueJeans

It's a simple job tbh. Shouldn't be too much at all.

jimmyw

I have changed these about 3 or 4 times as they dont seem to be that durable. I dont have the fan wired through it though, I have that wired to a separate switch outside the bathroom. Might it be too overloaded. I know its designed to take heavy current but might the fan be causing some trouble. The one that I have now has a problem where after taking a shower and I turn it off the light does not go off and have to play around with it to get it off. It sometimes works if I pull the cord up close near the switch itself.

aujopimur

Use a Crabtree pullcord switch as these are much more durable

eoghan.geraghty

I second aujopimur's advice.
Other shower pullcord switches just don't seem to last.
On a side note, the fan won't be overloading the switch but there should be a fuse between the shower switch and the fan.
Your electrician should advise you on this.

Stoner

we dont use them at all now if possible, we try to get a switch position under 2M away and fit a 45Amp cooker switch outside the bathroom far better job, no tugging at the switch nearly pulling it off the ceiling and moving the cable a little bit every time its used.

jackreacher

op just wondering if you can give me an idea what it cost to put right or quotes you have gotten, exact same problem in my house at present. cheers

itsallaboutme!!

i had my shower pull cord replaced a couple of months ago and if i remember correctly the switch itself only cost about 10-15e. my mate is an electrician so i didnt have to pay labour though so not sure on that.

Joey the lips

Oh the joys the exact same thing has happened to me but instead of being stuck off its stuck on. There is no fan connected so I have not bothered getting it fixed. think i will

biko

Yep, has a sparky in today. The spring inside the box the cord is hanging from was fecked.
He changed it and now it works \o/
He did it free (management company pays), job took about 10 mins.

The Mulk

Hi, I'm an electrician and ex instructor. These switches are in position to enable the shower to be turned off only when the shower is to be serviced or replaced by a plumber. They are not to be turned on and off after every use.The shower has it's own on/off switch.
Do you go around un-plugging all your appliances in the house after you use them?

danjo

The Mulk wrote: »

Hi, I'm an electrician and ex instructor. These switches are in position to enable the shower to be turned off only when the shower is to be serviced or replaced by a plumber. They are not to be turned on and off after every use.The shower has it's own on/off switch.
Do you go around un-plugging all your appliances in the house after you use them?

With all due respects to you, this is wrong advice. :eek:

The pull cord switches are designed, installed and used for switching the power to the shower at each use.
This is why they are very accessible in the bathroom and often control bathroom fans.
Whether you unplug appliances after use depends on the type.

The Mulk

I'm sorry, but how is this wrong. I'm not saying the the installation of the pull cord or the position of the pull cord are wrong but the 'habit' of switching them off after every use is unneccessary.
The fact a fan is connected to a pull cord will mean the fan and cable from the fan generally a 1.5 are fused at 40 amps?
This to me would be highly un-safe

danjo

The Mulk wrote: »

The fact a fan is connected to a pull cord will mean the fan and cable from the fan generally a 1.5 are fused at 40 amps?
This to me would be highly un-safe

When a fan is installed on a pull-cord switch it will have a separate fuse to protect it.

The Mulk

danjo wrote: »

When a fan is installed on a pull-cord switch it will have a separate fuse to protect it.

Where would this fuse be, the OP stated the 45 Amp Rated pull cord switch switched both the shower and the fan.

blog_blog_blog

I dont switch the power shower pull cord. As stated it is an isolation device. I,m sure the mA in standby is next to nothing. The LED in the box

Do you switch off your washing machine? Microwave ?
Why swing from a cord to switch a HD switch! Attached to damp plasterboard. Recipe for disaster.

danjo-xx

The Mulk wrote: »

I'm sorry, but how is this wrong. I'm not saying the the installation of the pull cord or the position of the pull cord are wrong but the 'habit' of switching them off after every use is unneccessary.
The fact a fan is connected to a pull cord will mean the fan and cable from the fan generally a 1.5 are fused at 40 amps?
This to me would be highly un-safe

nah nah nah, the pull cord IS there for regular use to isolate the supply completely when shower is not in use.

The Mulk

danjo-xx wrote: »

nah nah nah, the pull cord IS there for regular use to isolate the supply completely when shower is not in use.

No, no an isolation device, used to isolate the supply for replacement or repair of appliance.This is the main reason it's placed in an obvious and accesible place.
People can switch it off after every use if they like but this just results in the switches needing to be changed as stated by some users on here.
I'm still concerned by the practice of connecting the fan to the shower pull cord:eek:

Stoner

blog_blog_blog wrote: »

Why swing from a cord to switch a HD switch! Attached to damp plasterboard. Recipe for disaster.

Well I'd only mount the switch outside the bathroom and under 2M away from the shower if that is possible, otherwise I'd use a pullcord.

I agree that the pullcords are isolation units, similar to the 3 pole isolators required for bathroom fans, i.e. an obvious safe isolation point to allow safe work to take place IMHO that is.

itsallaboutme!!

before i had my switch replaced i used to switch ot off after using the shower every day so between myself and the OH the cord was being yanked on 4-8 times a day for just over 2 years since we moved in and had it installed. when my mate replaced the switch he told me that as it was not attached to a fan there was no need to switch it off after each use as the constant pulling will wear it out quicker. now we only switch it off when we are going away. so hopefully it will last longer than the last one.

danjo-xx

danjo wrote: »

When a fan is installed on a pull-cord switch it will have a separate fuse to protect it.

sorry guys, I don't know where I dragged that one up from.

2011

These switches are in position to enable the shower to be turned off only when the shower is to be serviced

+1

I would only use this switch for maintainance purposes myself. I can see no reason to use the isolation switch before and after each time the shower is used.

A relation of mine that is an experienced electrical engineer spends much of his life turning isolation switches on and off. This means that he is always setting the time on the cooker! A waste of time IMHO

If you are one of these people then I would suggest that you never operate the switch when the shower (or cooker) is switched on because the switch will burn out far quicker if it is used to break a large current.

danjo-xx

I can see no reason to use the isolation switch before and after each time the shower is used.

NOT using the pull cord switch means that live current is still in the shower unit when not in use and that ain't a good idea in anyone's books. :P

davelerave

preferable to isolate or switch off most domestic appliances - when not in use.
local isolation is needed for maintenance of course-anyone that ever worked in a large building trying to locate a circuit breaker would testify to that

jackreacher

would this be strictly a job for electrician to fix or would be able to replace it myself turning off power etc

Davy

jackreacher wrote: »

would this be strictly a job for electrician to fix or would be able to replace it myself turning off power etc

It is an easy/quick job to do, but you would want to know what your at. A multi meter and a screwdriver is all that you would need

2011

Danjo:

NOT using the pull cord switch means that live current is still in the shower unit when not in use and that ain't a good idea in anyone's books.

First there would be no "live current" at all. With the shower not in use the circuit is incomplete so no current can flow. Yes there will be live terminals within the shower unit, but so what? They are live when you take a shower anyway.

Secondly, what is your concern?

If you are going to take that approach then you should unplug every electrical appliance in the house when it is not in use and switch off every isolator. This will be a pain in the ass with you digibox, clock on appliances etc.

Also you will have to turn off the isolator for your boiler making the timer pretty usless.

danjo-xx

2011 said:

If you are going to take that approach then you should unplug every electrical appliance in the house when it is not in use and switch off every isolator. This will be a pain in the ass with you digibox, clock on appliances etc.

steady on there now.........the 'Bathroom' is the most dangerous room to be in, safety wise, with all the vapour/damp, hence the regular use of the isolating switch and btw I have never ever had to replace one yet through wear n tear. Must be the cheap imports that are sometimes used now.

2011

steady on there now.........the 'Bathroom' is the most dangerous room to be in, safety wise, with all the vapour/damp, hence the regular use of the isolating switch

The bathroom will be just as damp with the switch off.

What exactly is your concern?

Surely it is necessary if you follow the same logic to turn off your boiler too? It is full of water and contains either oil or an explosive gas!! Then there is the washing machine, a mix of water and electricity.

danjo

2011 wrote: »

Secondly, what is your concern?

If you are going to take that approach then you should unplug every electrical appliance in the house when it is not in use and switch off every isolator. This will be a pain in the ass with you digibox, clock on appliances etc.

Also you will have to turn off the isolator for your boiler making the timer pretty usless.

Exactly. This is the very reason why the pull cord is installed in a very accessible position so it can be easily and safely used....therefore no pain in the ass.

2011

.....and if the isolator is left on you concern is?

danjo

2011 wrote: »

.....and if the isolator is left on you concern is?

Safety is the primary concern. Leaving a high current device energised in a largely unattended room in a domestic situation is an unnecessary fire risk.

2011

So you feel that the shower may become faulty, causing a current to flow, over heat and as a result go on fire? In theory I guess it is possible, and as you say it is a high current device. I have never seen this happen. What I have seen happen is isolators melt, go on fire and generally fail due to people operating them frequently. I would therefore believe that constant use of the isolator increases the chances of a fire creating an unnecessary fire risk. Each to their own.

Personally I believe that the isolators are installed on fixed equipment for maintenance purposes only. They are also installed on low current domestic devices such as bathroom fans for the same reason. In industry many the same reasons apply and isolators are normally only used during routine maintenance and shut down.

davelerave

Afaik fire and 'standby usage 'are the main reasons to switch off appliances(where practicable) in 'domestic situations'.The risk to persons and property with fire is greater with 'unattended' appliances.Appliances may also be accidentally switched on when left plugged in.The individual risk/standby usage is small for 1 appliance but multiply it by the number of appliances and other risk factors and it may be significant.

2011

davelerave wrote: »

Afaik fire and 'standby usage 'are the main reasons to switch off appliances(where practicable) in 'domestic situations'.The risk to persons and property with fire is greater with 'unattended' appliances.Appliances may also be accidentally switched on when left plugged in.The individual risk/standby usage is small for 1 appliance but multiply it by the number of appliances and other risk factors and it may be significant.

You have made some valid points, but it has nothing to do with instantaneous showers as they have no standby mode and can't really be switched on by mistake. When not in use they consume no power whatsoever even with the local isolator switched on.

danjo

2011 wrote: »

When not in use they consume no power whatsoever even with the local isolator switched on.

This is not strictly true. Many showers have built in neon/led indicator circuits to show the presence of voltage on the unit. So there is a current, albeit small, flowing in the circuit.

For manufacturers recommendation take a look at the installation pdf from Triton

http://www.tritonshowers.ie/electric-showers/t150z-electric-shower.aspx

3.9 states that the shower should be switched off at the isolation switch when not in use.

2011

danjo wrote: »

This is not strictly true. Many showers have built in neon/led indicator circuits to show the presence of voltage on the unit. So there is a current, albeit small, flowing in the circuit.

I am open to correction here, but as far as I know the Triton & the Mira instantaneous showers do not have this light on when the unit is turned off. The same applies to all other instantaneous showers that I have seen. Even so the current consumed by this type of indication lamp is in the mA range.

For manufacturers recommendation take a look at the installation pdf from Triton

http://www.tritonshowers.ie/electric-showers/t150z-electric-shower.aspx

3.9 states that the shower should be switched off at the isolation switch when not in use.

Interesting, and a point well made. However IMHO not turning off the isolator each time is the lesser of two evils. I believe this because as I stated earlier I have seen many burnt out isolation switches with melted connections due to their frequent use, but I have never seen or heard of a shower unit that has become a fire hazzard. Perhaps others have seen an instantaneous shower unit that had started to over heat? If it was correctly installed I would be surprised. I will bet that many have seen a melted isolator though!

As I pointed out earlier an experienced electrical engineer I know agrees with you, but I still remain unconvinced!

I think we shall agree to disagree!

Happy Christmas

davelerave

Afaik some have a power lite(to indicate power is present).
The problem with isolator switches burning out or causing a fire hazard is down to installation/quality issues and misuse i would say.

danjo

2011 wrote: »

I think we shall agree to disagree!

Happy Christmas

Agreed.

Have a Nice Christmas.

2011

davelerave wrote: »

Afaik some have a power lite(to indicate power is present).

Yes, but AFAIK it is only lit when the on/off switch on the shower unit is in the "on" position.

The problem with isolator switches burning out or causing a fire hazard is down to installation/quality issues and misuse i would say.

I agree, it often is.

Regardless of your views on switching on and off, I think everyone will agree that spending an extra few euros on a good make like MK can make all the difference. Not only are they better quality, but theya are much easier to connect.

davelerave

The mira neons are lit to indicate voltage is present .
Had to 'google' it but triton is same.

Bruthal

Bull76 wrote: »

Hi,

Sounds like the switch is faulty. It has to switch alot of current and as a mechanical switch has a limited number of cycles before it will fail.
Firstly you or an Electrican preferable will have to isolate the power and remove the switch. Check for loose connections and arc mark's. But before that check for voltage at the switch... If voltage present and all connections were tight then it should be okay to isolate the power and remove the faulty switch and replace it with a similar rated switch. Should check for continunity on the old switch and then the new one to make sure all is okay.
Great care should be taken here as it is a large current source and if your not experienced with electricity you are in harm. Ensure power is off before you attempt to go at the switch.

The shower pull chord does`t really fail because of current, they rarely switch the shower load on and off, they are just not great mechanical devices as they do have to be capable of switching the shower load alright, and the string pulling mechanism is not as sturdy as a wall switch.

The cooker switch type on the wall is definitely a better setup.

Not much point in argueing over whether the pullchord is an isolation device or not, that does`t really matter, it still should be capable of operating as many times as if it was being used as a switch. It is an isolating device, its not rocket science, but it should be capable of being operated each time if the user feels like it. While electricians and instructors argue if the switches are isolators, the majority of users are not electricians and will switch off the pull chord after the shower is used.

jackreacher

just to drag slightly off topic, fixed my shower pull cord myself. bought phase tester and new pull cord switch in homebase and took about 30 mins to do it. well proud i am. thanks for the help guys and gals

Busta 46

I have a problem with my shower pull chord ,does not work,bought new one and still does not work,,checked fuse thats ok,,,,,,,,,getting peeved off ,,, any thoughts ,,many thanks.

The shower works but only cold water.

Tokyo

Busta 46 wrote: »

I have a problem with my shower pull chord ,does not work,bought new one and still does not work,,checked fuse thats ok,,,,,,,,,getting peeved off ,,, any thoughts ,,many thanks.

The shower works but only cold water.

If water is getting through, than power is getting through to the pump. Sounds unfortunately as if the internal heating element has burnt out...

Busta 46

But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .

Tokyo

Busta 46 wrote: »

But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .

Hmmm, not much you can do without first testing to see if power is getting up to the switch. Lift off the switch and check to see that power is getting up to it using a phase tester. The answer to that will narrow down the problem quite a bit.

Busta 46

Was in the shower when the hot water went off ,,,the shower pull chord light went out and since the shower works but only cold water,,power is shown on getting to the switch.

Tokyo

Busta 46 wrote:

But the pull chord does not work ? no light on pull chord .

Busta 46 wrote: »

Was in the shower when the hot water went off ,,,the shower pull chord light went out and since the shower works but only cold water,,power is shown on getting to the switch.

Sorry, but I'm finding it a little hard to follow your posts... Can you see if power is getting to the pull-cord switch? Is there a little neon indicator in the switch that lights up??

If there isn't, I'd unscrew the switch and check that power is getting to it. Don't assume that just because the light is not working that the wires aren't live - treat the switch as if it's powered up. You mention that you changed the switch out before - double check that you wired the switch properly and the retaining screws are properly tightened, with no bare copper showing.

If you're getting power to the switch, then the problem is obviously downstream of that - i.e. the electric shower unit. No power means that the problem is upstream - somewhere between the breaker box and the switch.

You mentioned in your earlier post that you "checked fuse thats ok" - which fuse did you check? Have you an older house with ceramic fuse holders, or a more modern circuit breaker box?? Check the shower breaker - it should have its own MCB. Also bear in mind that where showers have been retrofitted to older houses with fuse panels, the shower may have its own mini breaker box somewhere else in the house, outside the bathroom door or in the hall somewhere.