End of Time Part 1 (New Trailer)

pixelburp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFoCQSis9uU

Suppose this could be used as a general preview / promotional thread? Above is the latest trailer (not too spoilery); not too much is given away in it - we already know the Master's in it, as are the Ood.

Suppose we get a sense of how the Master comes back in the first place; some cabal of believers are seen activating some kind of mcGuffin, Hellboy style...

aidan_walsh

"Christmas is cancelled!" *cringe*
Asbo Force Lightening!

Being the RTD Kitchen Sink to end all Kitchen Sinks, I don't have too much hope for this. But I guess only time will tell.

Daemos

Did anyone else sit up a little when he said "Prepare the (Star)Gate"

The Master

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Did anyone else sit up a little when he said "Prepare the (Star)Gate"

Not star gate that would be the

Immortality Gate

Notice

the master with a collar around his neck?

Who's controlling him then???

Cant say any more:D

Raidenshred

DaPoolRulz wrote: »

Did anyone else sit up a little when he said "Prepare the (Star)Gate"

A little, but it doesn't look like it spins.
Spinning is better than not-spinning, as certain high-ranking generals have pointed out.

The Master

lets not forget these guys who will be turning up

SPOILER ALERT!!!

SPOILER PIC

Gambler

Gah! Want to watch but don't want to see anything at all till I can watch the whole thing.. Damn temptation!

Doctor DooM

I'm still hoping for a kinda

The Master is brought back because he's the only one who can stop the Doctor

story.

The Master

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm still hoping for a kinda

The Master is brought back because he's the only one who can stop the Doctor

story.

Sadly , just like some doctor/master stories ,

they have to work together to bring down a more evil thing

but does it end as we think............

pixelburp

Another clip for ye. I should warn you, it has Russell T Davies "comedy" in it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK04jd-ZaK4

pixelburp

More melodrama, this time featuring fewer camp OAPs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOWP5kvbKu8

The Master

The Master Attacks?

Who let him off his leash then?

Spoiler Pic 1

Spoiler Pic 2

Spoiler Pic 3

"THERE IS ONLY ... THE MASTER-RACE"

Wilf!

:eek: Didn't see that coming!

doctorwhogirl

I think this is a newish trailer. Was shown yesterday anyway.

I'm loving the return of the drums references and the added restraints on the Master!!

ixoy

Well everything I've seen makes me less and less hopeful It looks like RTD is going for his usual OTT nonsense that he serves up with his weak season finales. Ah well, he's almost gone...

pixelburp

Well it is "the End of Time". Man RTD has the subtly of a brick, I suppose the only good thing is that you can't escalate the threat any further at this point

Stark

"The end of 11 dimensional spacetime".

Stark

Mostly meh but I enjoyed the last few minutes. Can't go wrong with a planet full of John Simms and Timelords

Daemos

Wow, I thought that was very good, I have to say.

The human race is gone, replaced by 'The Master-Race', and the Time Lords are returning.

So far anyway, it hasn't been as OTD as I thought it would, so I'm looking forward to New Years day now.

Busi_Girl08

The whole Being John Malkovich thing at the end was very WTF ...

But the last 20 seconds with the

return of the Timelords

was EPIC!!:D:D:D

When's part 2? I missed that.

Daemos

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

When's part 2? I missed that.

New Years Day, so you only have to wait a week to see how it finishes

yaines

Busi_Girl08 wrote: »

The whole Being John Malkovich thing at the end was very WTF ...

But the last 20 seconds with the

return of the Timelords

was EPIC!!:D:D:D

When's part 2? I missed that.

New Year's Day. Around about the same time, I think.

I dunno.. It was all very weird. Hard to know where RTD is going with it tbh. But, I agree, the last 20 seconds were very good and I think next week's should be interesting. I wonder will any other former companions make an appearance? And

how will Donna survive remembering everything? Put her in the Immortality Gate, I suppose?

rossie1977

very meh for me too, huge letdown compared to last series of torchwood

Fysh

Meh even by the standard set by the season 3 & 4 conclusions - I spent rather a lot of the episode wondering if it was actually the second part of a story whose first part I hadn't seen.

There might be something interesting in the second part, but thus far it was just more of the RTD staples - ie lots of running and shouting to try and disguise the relative thinness of & lack of coherence in the plot.

The Master

RTD promised a full reset for when Moffat takes over.

It appears we are going back to the old-who days of the The Doctor being the "Renegade Timelord" separate and distinct from the rest of the Timelords.

spongeman

I thought Jiohn Simm gave a perfect performance, and that it was a great episode, with a stonking ending.

But then again, I d'ont read the always negative WHO forums who are always up their own backsides, and can form my own opinion.

anotherlostie

I was bored by it after an opening OK few minutes til the end. I was left wondering how this race would reproduce and then Timothy Dalton appeared and piqued my interest for part 2, which, lets face it, we're all going to watch for that scene anyway.

Stark

The Master wrote: »

RTD promised a full reset for when Moffat takes over.

It appears we are going back to the old-who days of the The Doctor being the "Renegade Timelord" separate and distinct from the rest of the Timelords.

It would be good if it really as the "end of time" and not just another "It's the end of the world but not really" copout.

I wonder if a full reset would also mean that Matt Smith would be an alternate timeline 9th Doctor as opposed to the 11th Doctor Though it would suck not getting to see David Tennant regenerating into Matt Smith.

Daemos

Stark wrote: »

It would be good if it really as the "end of time" and not just another "It's the end of the world but not really" copout.

+1

phasers

I enjoyed it but it was definitely not as good as Waters of Mars. A bit too much RTD tom foolery for my liking!

I thought it was a good set up episode though, I'm really excited about the next one

Raphael

I certainly assumed that by full reset he meant that everything would revert to the status quo canonically, rather than it not ever happening. I'd be pissed if they handwaved the entirity of new-who away as "but none of this actually happened, and this happened instead!"

Doctor DooM

Was a bit meh pacing wise with a few nice moments.

I like the way things are just generally really ****ty for the doctor lately and he realises it's because he's not getting human companionship.

spongeman

The only decent finale Ive seen was Parting of the ways.

Can they deliver this time ?

Doctor DooM

spongeman wrote: »

The only decent finale Ive seen was Parting of the ways.

Can they deliver this time ?

Well, it's going to deliver a regeneration and the

return of the timelords,

so in a sense it'd have to really feck up not to deliver!

Also Starring LeVar Burton

Apart from the last 2 minutes or so, it was shockingly bad... very boring...
Let's hope next week will, be good, because it'd be a terrible way for Tennant to go if we get another episode like this.

BlitzKrieg

Meh for the most part...

unless

the whole *master being broken*

aspect is not tied in as some important plot point in the second half then they essentially wasted over half of this episode on useless padding just so it was a 2 parter.

That said I was convinced I had it sussed up until the last minute so I give it credit for throwing a spanner in my thoughts

I thought the master was some giant chameleon arch storing the entire of galifray and he was brought back because they knew he would run and could survive the time war. And I was convinced of this up until he jumped into the machine and expected him to recreate galifray on earth. In fact the machine at the end was a bit stupid. They say it copies someone's genetics to be a medical station for an entire planet...But I assume that didnt mean it copied one person endlessly and instead corrected everyone else to match that one person health wise. So 1 healthy person heals a planet of being sick, 1 timelord turns the entire human race into timelords. That was my understanding which was wrong

aside from that, yeah it was a bit stupid and John Simm is varying from entertaining when he goes on some sort of ramble (like the drums bit) but looks goofy and crap when he is jumping around like the hunter from left 4 dead mixed with raiden from mortal kombat.

Despite being Tennants last story not alot of attention on him aside from that brief bit in the cafe bit.

also

my money is on wilfred moth killing the doctor

ToniTuddle

Stark wrote: »

Mostly meh but I enjoyed the last few minutes. Can't go wrong with a planet full of John Simms and Timelords

Can't go wrong with a planet full of him is right!!!

And I do agree with that bet of

Wilf ending up killing the Doc

. Difficult for him listening to that

woman who appeared on the telly.....should he believe her...why believe her over the Doctor! But I guess he thinks he is, as the woman says...possibly saving the Doctors life.

Really looking forward to New Years now!

spongeman

Guys Im going to disagree with most of ye here, and say I enjoyed it a lot because of Simm. He was fantastic.

My worry now is that I thought Doomsday/LOTTL/Journeys End were all big letdowns after excellent previous episodes. Hopefully he wont f**K it up this time.

Mr E

I wasn't blown away by it. Watched it at midnight last night and fell asleep half way through it. Had to rewind it when I woke up. I think it was all build up for next weeks episode, so that'll be the one to judge.

spongeman

Must have been that ten bottles of wine ye had yesterday......

Im still trying to get that image of Simm in a pink dress out of my head !

ixoy

Mixed feelings about this. There was lots of RTD OTT moments and

this episode, even by the show's low standards for it, didn't seem to give a crap about the science in science fiction with the ridiculous restoration ritual for the Master.

The Master himself flying around the place and shooting energy from his hands was a bit daft. Simms' performance varied - at times his manical cackle just grew tiresome. I know it's the Master and I can well recall Delgado's excellent laugh, but you can tone it down. His little rant about Christmas was also a bit forced. Having said that, it was quite amusing when he copied himself over everybody and we had him cheering himself on. Particularly since it stopped an annoying Obama-love moment. Quite like the idea of the Master eveywhere.

The Doctor was grand enough in this. I quite liked the scene with Wilfred in the café - nicely done. Wilfred again would make a good companion for the Doctor as he's down-to-earth without the histronics of his other companions.

I would have felt more down on the episode except for the last thirty seconds - I had no idea they were going to bring them back. I'd like to think Moffat will restore them in some form and remove a bit of the haunted/emo element of the Doctor being the last of his people.

It has potential with the Time Lord's return for the second part but I still fear RTD is going to ramp up the running, explosions, manic laughter, and Kitchen Sink monsters next week.

Stark

I would have thought that being the most "epic" finale yet, that the first part would have focused on the Time War and the destruction of Galifrey as opposed to the Master's food cravings. Disappointing in that regard. RTD seems to concentrate solely on the shouting and explosions when doing "epic" but fails to deliver good setup and buildup. It would also have justified the use of the title "End of time".

rossie1977

spongeman wrote: »

Guys Im going to disagree with most of ye here, and say I enjoyed it a lot because of Simm. He was fantastic.

i just cannot take simm seriously in the role, he is just so cheesy and i thought he was great in life on mars but playing the bad guy no way, i was just waiting for him to start waving and dancing around lo and behold it came at the end

he would be perfect playing the master alongside sly mc coy though

BuffyBot

The whole Simm flying around the place like a sub-budget Nathan Petrelli was pointless. Energy crackles, I could just about deal with..but that just sucked. The restoration scene was beyond panto crap, and even by RTD's standards it was crud. Lucy Saxon was wasted.

The Wilfred/Doctor moment in the cafe was fantastically played. It's kind of nice to see the Doctor contemplating his regeneration and not just "falling off a cliff" and boom. It shows us a side we've not nessecarily seen before - did all his other incarnations share the same fear/dread? Though I did wonder why they didn't explore how he understands what the 11th doctor will feel like and that he essentially lives on through him etc. Probably had to make room for some more Master jumping around.

The Naismiths are annoying, and seem slightly pointless. I predict both will be dead by the end of next week. I'd be interested to see if the Doctor uses the Immortality Gate to cure Donna.

Timothy Dalton was fantastic - but frankly, he could read the phone book and make it interesting

Next week should be interesting, none the less.

ToniTuddle

BuffyBot wrote: »

I'd be interested to see if the Doctor uses the Immortality Gate to cure Donna.

If he does this....doesn't that mean not only will

she be cured but also immortal?

Timothy was excellent but..... >.> ..... he did spit a bit when he was speaking at the end!

Killer_banana

Very disappointed with it and think the whole 'Master Race' thing is ridiculous. Still the next episode looks promising so I haven't given up yet. RTD has made some decisions which have annoyed me and seemed stupid in the past but he has always managed to redeem himself to some degree so maybe I'll end up loving it, who knows?. The cafe scene was one of the best moments in the episode and I thought the Silver cloak were hilarious. I'm very interested in the fact that the drums in the Master's head could be more than just a symptom of his madness and I can't wait to see how the Timelords have returned. That said I don't like the idea of RTD pressing the reset button. I understand that it's so Scott Moffat has more freedom to go where he wants to go with the show but that said if he wants the Timelords back or the last five years to have been a dream (I hope not) or whatever then that should be written when he is the writer and given the story-telling they need rather than all of it to be shoved into two hours. It could be amazing but it would be more amazing if it was given the devotion it warrants in my opinion.

The majority of this episode was clearly set-up and think a lot less people would be complaining if this was shown as one special two-hour long episode than a two parter as the first half would only be a quarter and the boring-ness of it (I didn't mind it too much but a lot of people seem have found it mind-numbing) wouldn't seem such a big deal (does that makes any sense?)

As for the episode being mis-named. I don't think it is. The Ood said they have been having bad dreams and I don't see why they would have them if time wans't ending for them too. They didn't say what they dreamed of so it might not be the master, after all was it not mentioned by someone (I have a terrible memory) during the episode that he is only a small part of the end of time? What has happened so far may only be what kicks-tarts the whole thing. Although my faith in RTD is quite shaky so the Ood's dreams may just be a very big plothole. :S I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

ixoy

Killer_banana wrote: »

hat said I don't like the idea of RTD pressing the reset button. I understand that it's so Scott Moffat has more freedom to go where he wants to go with the show but that said if he wants the Timelords back or the last five years to have been a dream (I hope not) or whatever then that should be written when he is the writer and given the story-telling they need rather than all of it to be shoved into two hours.

I doubt he would have been allowed to, to be honest. As the show's producer, RTD would have had control over a massive arc shift like reintroducing the Time Lords. He didn't want the Time Lords back under his watch so he wouldn't have wanted any hint to the contrary, bar the Master. It didn't fit into his image of the Doctor as the last of the Time Lords.

Moffat seems to be much more "old school", and would rather go back to the archetype of the Doctor as a renegade from his people, a maverick instead. I'd prefer this - I never liked the idea of the Time Lords being wiped out (especially when it was off screen). The Doctor as a bit of an outsider works better for me. Is the Doctor still President of Gallifrey? (I know he's not in the books, but that doesn't count generally).

Doctor DooM

ixoy wrote: »

I doubt he would have been allowed to, to be honest. As the show's producer, RTD would have had control over a massive arc shift like reintroducing the Time Lords. He didn't want the Time Lords back under his watch so he wouldn't have wanted any hint to the contrary, bar the Master. It didn't fit into his image of the Doctor as the last of the Time Lords.

Moffat seems to be much more "old school", and would rather go back to the archetype of the Doctor as a renegade from his people, a maverick instead. I'd prefer this - I never liked the idea of the Time Lords being wiped out (especially when it was off screen). The Doctor as a bit of an outsider works better for me. Is the Doctor still President of Gallifrey? (I know he's not in the books, but that doesn't count generally).

I never minded the "Last of the time lords". Before it was milked, there was a pathos I liked about the eternal lonliness. RTD did manage some nice moments with the idea too, on occasion.

I preferred the idea of that to the "renegade time cop" which the Doctor was. That's just me though, there's a whole world of new stories in renegade Doctor.

Still, this is RTD we're talking about. The time lords could all be retconned away by the end of the next episode.

pixelburp

I just saw it tonight after using the Sky recorder ... and oh. My. God.

That was the most embarrassing 60 minutes of Doctor Who I have watched since Sylvester McCoy gurned his way onto screens.

Seriously, where do you even start picking apart that sub-pantomime, bombastic, roughshod piece of nonsense I just watched? I actually thought RTD would at least try and bow out with a well-written piece of Who - and god knows we know he can when he wants to - but instead we got this?

I'm not sure I want to spoiler-tag my comments because I would actively dissuade people from watching this any way I can. Even so ...

- The "Potion of Life" that brought back the Master was jaw-droppingly bad. What is this? Harry Potter and the Deus Ex Machina? I know the magical master-race machine later on is as bad, but potions?? POTIONS? Argh!

- While I'm at it, Lucy Saxon's Anti Potion of Life. Plus the accompanying "aha, but while you were planning, I was concocting an antidote blah blah blah" ... Argh!

- The whole "President Obama's Speech" subplot. Oh dear jumping Jesus that annoyed me. Not even a secondary school student would write a screenplay with such clunky dialogue; why would a chiplady tell a pair of hobos - in the United bloody Kingdom - about President Obama's Xmas speech (that'll apparently cure the recession)? If this was meant as some parody of the Obama hype, RTD's about a year behind the times there. Argh!

- As you may have gathered, I didn't think the dialogue overall was much cop. Bloody awful, start to finish. Argh!

- Would somebody turn down the bloody music please, my ears are bleeding! Argh!

- Wait, The Master is now super-powered? Lightning bolts from his hands? Jumping tall quarries with a single bound? Was this done just so we could have that melodramatic Doctor-faces-down-the-Master scene? Argh!

- Oh let's get to David Tennant. You may have slightly redeemed yourself with that quiet café scene (it was the only quiet scene), but either side of that, the grinning, OTT body language, shouting, hammy acting is just too much. Plus considering the last episode we saw the Doctor as an a$$hole, his sudden cocky demeanor is a bit much ...

- Oh look, comedy green aliens with silly names. How endearingly ... Argh! (oh and the female's make-up was showing)

- I'm sorry, did the whole planet just turn into Masters? Am I supposed to feel shocked by John Simm jumping up and down in a women's cardigan? Well I guess I am but still, that's pathetic. It also again involves another typical RTD trope - the "magical" machine. ... Argh!

- Oh look, the Time Lords are back & seem to have spittle problems. Wait, where has this come from? Argh!

That was terrible; honestly and truthfully, that was as bad as any of the old series' clunkers. No no, I take that back, it was worse; because whereas in later years the old series was moribund, nobody was watching it & the writers just shot the breeze with bizarre, "zany" scripts. Now it's apparently an award-winning, much loved show produced by some of the best creative talent in Britain.

What we get though is a show that has nothing but contempt for its own internal logic, basic science, the show's mythology, actors (except for Bernard Cribbens, bless his soul), the whole lot.

In fact, its a show that hates its own audience. I know a big portion of the audience are children but does that mean all semblance of sense, drama & common sense must go out the window? Children aren't idiots ffs.

Damnit, I'm going off to watch "The Caves of Androzani"; dodgy monster aside, that's how you do a dramatic, tragic, emotionally powerful last Doctor story. This is just amateur drama gone wrong.

I will tell you what; if there's a dramatic plunge in the ratings for part 2 - and after that nonsense I wouldn't be surprised - you could find Moffat with a huge mountain to climb, even if he changes the tone of the show (oh god, please change the tone of the show). I would go so far as to put money down on Season 5 being the last.

I'll tell you another thing; suddenly my antipathy for Matt Smith has vanished. I welcome him & Moffat with open arms (plus the new assistant, she looks like a honey).

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

I'll tell you another thing; suddenly my antipathy for Matt Smith has vanished. I welcome him & Moffat with open arms (plus the new assistant, she looks like a honey).

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!

Seriously though, is there a correllation between critically poorly received episodes and dips in ratings?

Cos if so... Alot of the specials havn't been amazing.

pixelburp

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!

Seriously though, is there a correllation between critically poorly received episodes and dips in ratings?

Cos if so... Alot of the specials havn't been amazing.

Haha, ok, a touch of the mega-rant there, but in all fairness, that was a woeful piece of television. Sure the new series could be silly, but that episode just felt like a writer who has stopped bothering & is writing any old b0llicks he can think of. Even Red Dwarf had better internal logic and science than this

I imagine the first part has got some pretty big ratings, mostly cos of the whole "last David Tennant story" angle. I expect a drop-off, there usually has been in 2 parters afaik. I just imagine a lot of ppl like myself will just throw their hands up and say "whatever, I couldn't be arsed anymore!"

Doctor DooM

pixelburp wrote: »

Haha, ok, a touch of the mega-rant there, but in all fairness, that was a woeful piece of television. Sure the new series could be silly, but that episode just felt like a writer who has stopped bothering & is writing any old b0llicks he can think of. Even Red Dwarf had better internal logic and science than this

I imagine the first part has got some pretty big ratings, mostly cos of the whole "last David Tennant story" angle. I expect a drop-off, there usually has been in 2 parters afaik. I just imagine a lot of ppl like myself will just throw their hands up and say "whatever, I couldn't be arsed anymore!"

Got to be honest, I gave up on internal consistency a while back. It's not something I should have to do, it makes the show suffer.

I'm looking forward to moffats take, he always seemed to pay a little more attention to it.