Socail Welfare Budget Cut Protest

Lunar_Wire

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Count Dooku

September 2009

ntlbell

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

We can't afford it anymore.

you didn't cause the mess.

we can't afford it anymore

you didn't get large loans

we can't afford it anymore

you didn't purchaase houses

we can't afford it anymore.

cson

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Maybe you didn't but the Government have decided to socialise debt through NAMA thus you don't have a say in it and as such you suffer along with everyone else. And tbh Social Welfare levels in this country are a disincentive to find work imo. There ~20% inflated in my own opinion and with the cost of living down by around 6% I personally reckon welfare should be capped at €150.

Dannyboy83

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Am I correct in assuming by your statement that you've been on social welfare for a long time?
If so, would you mind disclosing why?

NinjaTruncs

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

Not having a job and relying on tax payers was irresponsible.

*i'm assuming from your post you're a long term benefit claimer.

Kensington

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

There is no other option to cutting social welfare. The money simply is not there. It doesn't matter if Fianna Fáil were booted out tomorrow morning, the new government would still be left with the fact the money to continue paying social welfare at current levels simply is not there.

The_Honeybadger

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

People get very worked up about banks & developers and so on but you must realise the fact that we are spending 400 million a week more than we take in is not because of banks & developers but because we have a low tax and high cost economy. Over half of all workers pay no tax at all, we have one of the most generous social welfare systems in the world, one of the highest paid and wasteful public services in the world, universal CB, I could go on but you get the picture. Much of this was put in place to buy votes in elections and is clearly unsustainable, add to this the fact that are now far fewer taxpayers and it really is a daunting situation. Until politics becomes about policy and not popularity we will not be able to sort our problems out. I cant think of any other country that has the freebies we get here, people want services but dont want to pay for them. Banks and developers behaved despicably but we cannot blame them for our current budget deficit, and we must realise that the party is over and we are all going to be worse off for it.

dsmythy

The dole was 185 a mere 3 years ago. Take it back to that amount i say.

Tipsy Mac

The UK rate is £70.35 (€77.93) per week, we are nearly 3 times this, no way can such rates continue.

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/stellent/groups/jcp/documents/websitecontent/dev_015666.pdf

alphapa

i have to say there are 2 sides to this, i found myself unemployed for the first time in years in the last few months and with a 6mth old baby and a girlfriend to support along with all my own bills and rent etc social welfare comes nowhere near what i can live on, so i went out and applied for every job imaginable and eventually got a partime min wage job that guaranteed at least 15 hrs a week so i signed up for x and os so in my first weeks it cost me money to work!!!!! but i got half welfare for the 2 weeks eventually!! but the system is stupid they use if u work 3 days(no matter what the hours u get half if u work a 4th u get nuthin last week i done 5 days(not wanting to rock the boat as i had just started and it was 32hrs so i worked nearly a whole week for 80euro so when u look at it in relation to the min wage the welfare is grossly high! but i think they should leave it at that rate for people that arent longterm unemployed that have paid taxes for years and found themselves out of work but really target the long term unemployed with no intention of finding work as they are getting so many benefits that it would not be worth there while to work! and i know loads of fellas in that boat! as for me i hav no problem working for my money even if it means im doin it for a extra 50 quid at least i feel i earned it and dont have that poxy government looking down on me!!!!!

rant over!

meoklmrk91

Is as simple as this we are living in an arse backwards country, we were the first to go into recession in the economic downturn and considering our global position we are probably the worst off.

While every other country in the world is spending their way out the recession Cowen and co. insist on making cuts, which means in IMO this will be a much harder and longer recession.

The lack of creativity in our Government is astounding. We could be spending money building hospitals, schools and roads and actually use Irish workers instead of bringing in foreign company's to do the job, less people would be sitting at home on the dole and they would have more money to spend which would undoubtedly good for the economy and the country.

In Germany instead of having people sit at home on the dole they have a program where they are supplementing employees pay packet so their employers don't have to fire them.

Why are people who are on the dole sitting at home anyway, why aren't they on courses, or back in college, learning skills that will help them get a job in the future. Because Cowen and co. refuse to invest in education, how can we expect to compete on Global scale if we don't have a well educated people.

Quite frankly I think that cutting social welfare payments is disgusting, the money that people are expected to live on is downright disgraceful as is. I think you can tell a lot about a state on how they treat their dependents [disabled, elderly, children, those who can't find a job etc.], the way Brian Cowen and the rest of the government is treating our dependents is despicable and the lack of outrage is frightening.

Lunar_Wire

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Not having a job and relying on tax payers was irresponsible.

Was it? Oh well.
Perhaps I shouldn't have taken the government to court as part of my responsibility to society, leaving myself liable to being millions of euros of debt.
Do you mean that I didn't pay for the taxes that pay for the politians and banking regulators? Or the taxes that have not built schools or funded hospitals?
Your right, I should have worked and got a huge mortgage and bought property in Bulgeria.

Maebh

mickeyk wrote: »

we have one of the most generous social welfare systems in the world

How would you say our social welfare system is "generous"?

Personally, I think that paying everyone the same amount regardless of the earnings you had previously or the time you have spent working in the country is exceptionally unfair. Certainly, I would say that France's system, which takes both of these things into account and pays a % of your previous income is far more generous.

However, the attitude that social welfare is "generous" at all is mistaken, in my view. Mature and equal societies have it so that if you become unemployed you don't starve or go homeless. Is that really such a generous view?

Lunar_Wire

Kensington wrote: »

There is no other option to cutting social welfare. The money simply is not there. It doesn't matter if Fianna Fáil were booted out tomorrow morning, the new government would still be left with the fact the money to continue paying social welfare at current levels simply is not there.

I fully accept that welfare be cut, but on the condition that the government go.

mikemac

A protest will do very little.
The pensioners protest was well organized and very effective.

I realy doubt a comparable protest could be organized by the unemployed. And if it's decided it's in Dublin aren't the Galway/Sligo/Letterkenny etc protesters supposed to be out job hunting?

jhegarty

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Was it? Oh well.
Perhaps I shouldn't have taken the government to court as part of my responsibility to society, leaving myself liable to being millions of euros of debt.

There was also the option of getting a job.

Lunar_Wire

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

In Germany instead of having people sit at home on the dole they have a program where they are supplementing employees pay packet so their employers don't have to fire them.
Why are people who are on the dole sitting at home anyway

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

ntlbell

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

5% reduction won't make much of a difference so.

call off the protests!

meoklmrk91

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

Hey your preaching to the choir I am attending a Youth Reach to get my LCA.

Kristopherus

alphapa wrote: »

i have to say there are 2 sides to this, i found myself unemployed for the first time in years in the last few months and with a 6mth old baby and a girlfriend to support along with all my own bills and rent etc social welfare comes nowhere near what i can live on, so i went out and applied for every job imaginable and eventually got a partime min wage job that guaranteed at least 15 hrs a week so i signed up for x and os so in my first weeks it cost me money to work!!!!! but i got half welfare for the 2 weeks eventually!! but the system is stupid they use if u work 3 days(no matter what the hours u get half if u work a 4th u get nuthin last week i done 5 days(not wanting to rock the boat as i had just started and it was 32hrs so i worked nearly a whole week for 80euro so when u look at it in relation to the min wage the welfare is grossly high! but i think they should leave it at that rate for people that arent longterm unemployed that have paid taxes for years and found themselves out of work but really target the long term unemployed with no intention of finding work as they are getting so many benefits that it would not be worth there while to work! and i know loads of fellas in that boat! as for me i hav no problem working for my money even if it means im doin it for a extra 50 quid at least i feel i earned it and dont have that poxy government looking down on me!!!!!

rant over!

Be thankful you,re not paying tax on those earnings as well !!!

alphapa

Kristopherus wrote: »

Be thankful you,re not paying tax on those earnings as well !!!

not till next week prob!!!!!!!!!

The_Honeybadger

Maebh wrote: »

How would you say our social welfare system is "generous"?

Personally, I think that paying everyone the same amount regardless of the earnings you had previously or the time you have spent working in the country is exceptionally unfair. Certainly, I would say that France's system, which takes both of these things into account and pays a % of your previous income is far more generous.

However, the attitude that social welfare is "generous" at all is mistaken, in my view. Mature and equal societies have it so that if you become unemployed you don't starve or go homeless. Is that really such a generous view?

Good point about france, the more you pay in over the years the more you get when you lose your job, where would that leave career dolers who make a living off the state and have no intention of getting a job. Our welfare rate is treble the rate of the UK, without taking into account CB for those with children, the reason many people are finding it hard to get by is debt. I was on welfare myself for a few months in the last year and got by fine, I didnt have any loans of any sort and had a good amount of savings (which i didnt have to dip into), luckily I didnt buy a house when I could have. 200 euro a week is enough to live on, those who are renting also get rent allowance and people with mortgages can apply for mortgage interest relief, I read lately somewhere that an unemployed couple with two kids can draw the equivelent of a 40k wage off the state, Id call that very generous, if people have high levels of debt thats their problem and not the states.

Lemondrop kid

mickeyk wrote: »

Good point about france, the more you pay in over the years the more you get when you lose your job, where would that leave career dolers who make a living off the state and have no intention of getting a job. Our welfare rate is treble the rate of the UK, without taking into account CB for those with children, the reason many people are finding it hard to get by is debt. I was on welfare myself for a few months in the last year and got by fine, I didnt have any loans of any sort and had a good amount of savings (which i didnt have to dip into), luckily I didnt buy a house when I could have. 200 euro a week is enough to live on, those who are renting also get rent allowance and people with mortgages can apply for mortgage interest relief, I read lately somewhere that an unemployed couple with two kids can draw the equivelent of a 40k wage off the state, Id call that very generous, if people have high levels of debt thats their problem and not the states.

Sigh, i shouldn't bother, but...

1/Try to remember, the unemployment rate was less than 3% - (regarded as the equivalent to nil)when jobs were available (won't bore you with the nature of accounting in employment terms) so when the jobs are there people will work.
2/ try it for a year or so, get back to me

The_Honeybadger

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Sigh, i shouldn't bother, but...

1/Try to remember, the unemployment rate was less than 3% - (regarded as the equivalent to nil)when jobs were available (won't bore you with the nature of accounting in employment terms) so when the jobs are there people will work.
2/ try it for a year or so, get back to me

Cant really see what your point is, of course I know people will work when there are jobs, nearly everyone on the dole is genuinely out of work through no fault of their own and deserve to be treated with respect. I have no issue with people who are on the dole, the question was "is the sytem generous?". Personally I dont think its too bad in Ireland. The two points you have made have nothing to do with my post. I would hope to never have to be on it for a year so I wont be getting back to you i am afraid.

PeakOutput

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Do you mean that I didn't pay for the taxes that pay for the politians and banking regulators? Or the taxes that have not built schools or funded hospitals?

well if you havnt been working for a long itme you havnt contributed to any taxes in a long time

also you 'social responsibility' was probbaly somewhat massaged by a potentialy large settlement which maybe you deserved and maybe you didnt

luckily you dont get to dictate terms to the goverment. even if i do like the idea of them being out of power immedietely

NinjaTruncs

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Your right, I should have worked and got a huge mortgage and bought property in Bulgeria.

What kind of stupid comment is that, not everyone who works took out a mortgage, but everyone who works does pay tax to fund your life.

bean na gaeilge

Social Welfare has to take a cut - between the income levy and the pension levy I have taken two cuts - Im a teacher in my second year out of college - I have friends on the social and between the dole and rent allowence and fuel etc they are earning more than my take home pay a week - if social welfare does not take a cut there will be no incentive to work..... :mad:Thats my opinion anyway!

Lunar_Wire

PeakOutput wrote: »

also you 'social responsibility' was probbaly somewhat massaged by a potentialy large settlement which maybe you deserved and maybe you didnt

Just to correct that factual error. There was zero possible gain to me, only risk. Man of straw and all that. Totally taken ( and won ) on behalf of Irish citizens, during a time of rampant capitalism and privatisation.

PeakOutput

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Just to correct that factual error. There was zero possible gain to me, only risk. Man of straw and all that. Totally taken ( and won ) on behalf of Irish citizens, during a time of rampant capitalism and privatisation.

so your not in debt to millions then?

Dannyboy83

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

A bit like CE schemes?
I haven't been sitting at home. I think you may not like to hear that while modest, my life is full.

You are not very forthcoming with the info, so apologies if my opinion is overly-assumptive.

I think many of us could equally sit at home and have a modest & full life, but we would not feel comfortable having other people pay for us.
If you can support yourself, independently, then knock yourself out.

But if you are claiming social welfare, because you are choosing not to work, do you honestly believe you have any moral ground to argue when it is being reduced, because those of us who are taxed to pay for your lifestyle no longer can afford to do so?

I find that insulting.

ghost_ie

cson wrote: »

Maybe you didn't but the Government have decided to socialise debt through NAMA thus you don't have a say in it and as such you suffer along with everyone else. And tbh Social Welfare levels in this country are a disincentive to find work imo. There ~20% inflated in my own opinion and with the cost of living down by around 6% I personally reckon welfare should be capped at €150.

I'll go along with a 20% cut in social welfare and public service pay when Cowen and his ministers (and the top civil servants) reduce their salaries to €50,000 per annum. The cuts to their salaries reported in today's papers still leave our Taoiseach on over €200,000 a year and his ministers on €190,000. Top civil servants will still earn over €200,000. Why should nurses, firemen, the gardai and the unemployed take cuts when even after cuts the people at the top are still earning multiples of the average industrial wage?

PeakOutput

ghost_ie wrote: »

I'll go along with a 20% cut in social welfare and public service pay when Cowen and his ministers (and the top civil servants) reduce their salaries to €50,000 per annum. The cuts to their salaries reported in today's papers still leave our Taoiseach on over €200,000 a year and his ministers on €190,000. Top civil servants will still earn over €200,000. Why should nurses, firemen, the gardai and the unemployed take cuts when even after cuts the people at the top are still earning multiples of the average industrial wage?

there are very good reasons for paying high wages to the 'people at the top' if you cant see that then there is really no point in debating with you any further at all

whatnext

My points on the issue, and its a bit of a commundrum, as I may find myself on the dole soon, for the 1st time.

1/ As long as there are people in fulltime employment at any level, min wage or otherwise saying that they would be better off on the dole, then, in my opinion its too high. These boards are full of posts where people claim they would be so.

2/ If i were to go onto the dole having lost my job, I have absolutly no idea how I will survive after my savings are gone, and the mortgage will make light work of them.

3/ from what I can see there a a few people on here saying it should be means tested or the likes, and while this may seem morally correct, I would take issue with the amount of PRSI ie Pay Related Social Insurance I have paid over the past 8 years. I have paid into an insurance scheme to allow me to collect dole if I lose my job, and this is the case for every PAYE worker with over 2 yrs consecutive contributions whether the earn E1m, E100k or E10k pa. Now the alternative is to say high earners can opt out of PRSI, after all most have private health insurance anyway, and a private pension, considerably higher than the OAP (in theory) but the problem with that is that they contribute by far in a way more in PRSI than they are likely to claim.

just my 2 cents worth, from someone staring at the prospects of losing my job soon

tudlytops

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

You are not very forthcoming with the info, so apologies if my opinion is overly-assumptive.

I think many of us could equally sit at home and have a modest & full life, but we would not feel comfortable having other people pay for us.
If you can support yourself, independently, then knock yourself out.

But if you are claiming social welfare, because you are choosing not to work, do you honestly believe you have any moral ground to argue when it is being reduced, because those of us who are taxed to pay for your lifestyle no longer can afford to do so?

I find that insulting.

Absolutely agree with you.

Welfare should be looked at as a steeping stone, to help when things go wrong, not to stay on it for ones whole life.

But it's not their fault its the system that allows it so, and now people that worked all their life's but for reasons behold their control cannot do so are going to pay the price.

those that really can't work will continue being poor and will get worse, they don't deserve it.

As i said on another thread, make the unemployed attend a Job Centre from 9 to 5, Monday to Friday, if they don't show up they don't get paid, they would soon get jobs and those claiming and working, lets be honest there are loads of them, they could not do this if they had to attend a job centre.

and I mean every one, including the so called single parents, no excuses.

cson

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

The lack of creativity in our Government is astounding. We could be spending money building hospitals, schools and roads and actually use Irish workers instead of bringing in foreign company's to do the job, less people would be sitting at home on the dole and they would have more money to spend which would undoubtedly good for the economy and the country.

Quite frankly I think that cutting social welfare payments is disgusting, the money that people are expected to live on is downright disgraceful as is. I think you can tell a lot about a state on how they treat their dependents [disabled, elderly, children, those who can't find a job etc.], the way Brian Cowen and the rest of the government is treating our dependents is despicable and the lack of outrage is frightening.

On the underlined points; if Irish builders offered competitive rates they would get the contracts for public works and buildings. The reason they don't is that such contracts are tendered throughout Europe as a result of our membership and agreement to an open market thus you have a Spanish company building most of our motorways. Of course this is tempered by the fact that other EU countries may have a different minimum wage structure that is more 'competitive' for want of a better word than our one. What this means is that it's easy to make the call in theory for all the unemployed to go on the equivilant of the Famine Public Works and build all State roads/schools/hospitals etc but in reality its impractical and impossible. Perhaps as method of making people earn their social welfare it'd be somewhat palatable.

As regards your second point of it being downright disgraceful to live on. We have one of the largest, if not the largest weekly social welfare benefits in Europe. As has been pointed out for a rough comparison in the UK its circa €70, thats a disparity of €130 from our nearest neighbour and costs of living and related benefits attainable in the UK nothwithstanding, a social welfare difference of almost 200% is staggering to say the least.

ghost_ie wrote: »

I'll go along with a 20% cut in social welfare and public service pay when Cowen and his ministers (and the top civil servants) reduce their salaries to €50,000 per annum. The cuts to their salaries reported in today's papers still leave our Taoiseach on over €200,000 a year and his ministers on €190,000. Top civil servants will still earn over €200,000. Why should nurses, firemen, the gardai and the unemployed take cuts when even after cuts the people at the top are still earning multiples of the average industrial wage?

Brian Cowen's wage will be cut by €57,000 this year. It brings it into line with that of other State leaders in Europe and I would say that is fair. We must have an incentive to hold these jobs so that the best and brightest of our nation aspire and end up holding them. Cutting the wage of such a hugely important post to €50,000 will act as a disincentive to those with the ability to hold the post and largely lead to emigration of some very talented Irish people who would otherwise stay. Remember your Taoiseach and Ministers et al are public servants too and their wages are not exempt from cuts. They mooted 6% cut for the public sector willc ome off their wages too.

I'd be in favour of having the wages of top Civil Servants and Government Ministers etc broadly in line with average European levels minus roughly 10% to account for the economic downturn. The average head of State earns €220,000 therefore by my rhetoric the Taoiseach should take home €200,000. For the type of job it is, that's very fair in my opinion.

gaeilgegrinds

I was always under the impression that social welfare was there to tide someone over between jobs, not that it was a lifestyle choice. Am I incorrect in this?

cson

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I was always under the impression that social welfare was there to tide someone over between jobs, not that it was a lifestyle choice. Am I incorrect in this?

Very much so. Far from being a lifestyle choice - it's a career choice for a lot of people. I'm not going to generalise any particular location but I'm sure the analogy of a single unemployed mother living at home with two unemployed parents in a State sponsored council house is not too uncommon unfortunately. You have the crux of the problem with our public finances and welfare system right there - look at the amount of benefits that situation would throw up; Social Welfare x 3 each week, a State subsidised house, medical cards, fuel allowances, child benefit, single mothers allowance... I'm sure I've left out some there too which is frightening to say the least. You could quite realistically have a mind boggling situation where the parents of the single mother are claiming child benefit for her too! You're probably talking the guts of a €800 in benefits coming coming into that house each week for 3 adults and a child. And then people wonder why they have to take a pay cut.

tudlytops

Absolutely, but don't forget how many of these are actually working and claiming.

Clamp down on benefits and how they are paid, to whom and for how long.

Why should one be unemployed, decide that they want children they can't afford to bring up, gel a whole load of benefits for them, then decide they don't want to go back to work (that's if they ever worked in the first place).

Why is it that "single" perents aren't made to go to work?, after all when I had my children after maternity leave I went back to work.

That was my big mistake

Lemondrop kid

cson wrote: »

Very much so. Far from being a lifestyle choice - it's a career choice for a lot of people. I'm not going to generalise any particular location but I'm sure the analogy of a single unemployed mother living at home with two unemployed parents in a State sponsored council house is not too uncommon unfortunately. You have the crux of the problem with our public finances and welfare system right there - look at the amount of benefits that situation would throw up; Social Welfare x 3 each week, a State subsidised house, medical cards, fuel allowances, child benefit, single mothers allowance... I'm sure I've left out some there too which is frightening to say the least. You could quite realistically have a mind boggling situation where the parents of the single mother are claiming child benefit for her too! You're probably talking the guts of a €800 in benefits coming coming into that house each week for 3 adults and a child. And then people wonder why they have to take a pay cut.

tudlytops wrote: »

Absolutely, but don't forget how many of these are actually working and claiming.

Clamp down on benefits and how they are paid, to whom and for how long.

Why should one be unemployed, decide that they want children they can't afford to bring up, gel a whole load of benefits for them, then decide they don't want to go back to work (that's if they ever worked in the first place).

Why is it that "single" perents aren't made to go to work?, after all when I had my children after maternity leave I went back to work.

That was my big mistake

Ah well. Guess i'll try satire.
Ahem, wouldn't it be better if the kids of these single mums (aka single parents?) were simply put into Orphanages like the olden days? I mean ,this has proven to be very successful - or indeed into the care of the religious? Again, a sure winner.

Satire ends
Said it before, will say it again - stats have shown again and again when jobs are there everyone will work - who can work. We had Nil unemployment (as it is calculated, accn for transition etc) over the last number of years. Now the situation has changed due to greed of a few and suddenly its those pesky scroungers fault.
How did the PD's ever become extinct?

gcgirl

well said kid:) if we had jobs in this god forsaking country fair enough but as far as i'm concerned everything gone to **** here job wise !

oh well

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I was always under the impression that social welfare was there to tide someone over between jobs, not that it was a lifestyle choice. Am I incorrect in this?

its a lifestyle choice for some people definitely - I'd say we all know of people who choose not to work in recent years cos the dole or other payments were too high. There was no reason in recent years for anyone to be on welfare other than the sick. When ever but in the recent in the past did we see jobs of every single description being advertised in shop windows, free papers, etc, open days for employment in large factories. my BIL/SIL have never worked a day in his life in Ireland (even for cash in hand) but yet he manages to have a decent lifestyle, gets 1 or 2 holidays a year abroad. Often felt we were being fools for working hard, having decent enough life for a holiday most years, paying for medical insurance and pensions and trying to save a little money for the rainy day. BIL now giving out yards about his benefits being cut, his entitlement as he calls it.

Maebh

cson wrote: »

As regards your second point of it being downright disgraceful to live on. We have one of the largest, if not the largest weekly social welfare benefits in Europe. As has been pointed out for a rough comparison in the UK its circa €70, thats a disparity of €130 from our nearest neighbour and costs of living and related benefits attainable in the UK nothwithstanding, a social welfare difference of almost 200% is staggering to say the least.

Just to say, where are you getting the largest in Europe from? Please show me some figures.

And I have to add, cost of living and benefits attainable make a helluva difference, really, and should not be discounted.

ntlbell

Maebh wrote: »

Just to say, where are you getting the largest in Europe from? Please show me some figures.

:rolleyes:

name one country where the basic jsa is higher than ireland.

whatnext

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Ah well. Guess i'll try satire.
Ahem, wouldn't it be better if the kids of these single mums (aka single parents?) were simply put into Orphanages like the olden days? I mean ,this has proven to be very successful - or indeed into the care of the religious? Again, a sure winner.

Satire ends
Said it before, will say it again - stats have shown again and again when jobs are there everyone will work - who can work. We had Nil unemployment (as it is calculated, accn for transition etc) over the last number of years. Now the situation has changed due to greed of a few and suddenly its those pesky scroungers fault.
How did the PD's ever become extinct?

Full employment is deemed to be an unemployment rate of between 2 and 7% depending on what economist you listen to. My old Economics Lecturer used a figure of 4.3% and I cant remember which Economist he was quoting, but is was broadly calculated as being 2% cant work, 2% will not work and 0.3% will be in transition ie between jobs.

For you to suggest we had 0% unemployment is ridiculous, and to be so closeted as to say that there are no people that choose to be unemployed is even more laughable

gcgirl

good auld ireland ! **** on genuine people ! hitler was right gas the lot of them anybody that earns below 50 k a year as for kids only keep the brightest ! Start on the oap's first the the unmarried mothers then go on from there

cson

Maebh wrote: »

Just to say, where are you getting the largest in Europe from? Please show me some figures.

And I have to add, cost of living and benefits attainable make a helluva difference, really, and should not be discounted.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits

Loathe to use wikipedia as a source but it gives quite a good synopsis of the Welfare benefits in similar countries and the citations used are accurate.

As I have said, compare to our nearest neighbour the UK. The unemployment benefit there is just shy of £65 per week. That's equal to €72 at the current exhange rate. Notwithstanding VAT and minimum wage discrepancies along with other factors, is Ireland really 183% more expensive to live in? There's no real need to answer that. I think that little snapshot comparision of welfare benefits will tell you all you need to know in deciding if our welfare is generous or not.

gcgirl wrote: »

good auld ireland ! **** on genuine people ! hitler was right gas the lot of them anybody that earns below 50 k a year as for kids only keep the brightest ! Start on the oap's first the the unmarried mothers then go on from there

Come on, add something constructive to the argument. You can do better than childish posts like that.

gcgirl

think about rent gas electricity food phone line all more expensive than anywhere else really! you could fill your freezer in england for 15 pound, same with france, they have a far better health service than Ireland , education has gone to crap in this country also, to anyone under the age of 30 with no ties get out of the country cos this is a sinking ship!

tudlytops

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Ah well. Guess i'll try satire.
Ahem, wouldn't it be better if the kids of these single mums (aka single parents?) were simply put into Orphanages like the olden days? I mean ,this has proven to be very successful - or indeed into the care of the religious? Again, a sure winner.

Drama, drama, drama.

Lemondrop kid wrote: »

Satire ends
Said it before, will say it again - stats have shown again and again when jobs are there everyone will work - who can work. We had Nil unemployment (as it is calculated, accn for transition etc) over the last number of years. Now the situation has changed due to greed of a few and suddenly its those pesky scroungers fault.
How did the PD's ever become extinct?

There was never 0% unemployment, and the nr were low, because single perents arent counted, disabled or sick aren't counted, people in FAS courses aren't counted, but guess what they were all unemployed, some by choice some because they couldn't work or no one will employed them.

I was a single parent until my daughter turn 7 so i know what's like and I still don't feel anything for them.

I worked since the age of 18, paid my own way through night school and raised my kids, i was only 19 when my daughter was born, never though of going into welfare, asking for cots, prams,etc.

They can stop crying and do something about it.

And there is still work out there, not nice cossy well paid jobs, but work

Darragh29

Lunar_Wire wrote: »

Hi,
Just wondering if there are any plans for a protests on budget day.
Surely this Government should be out now!
I'm willing to take a cut in my welfare when this crowd are out. I can't understand why they're still there. If running the state costs €400 million per week, then an election will only be a fraction of a weeks debt. They should loose their jobs through incompetence
Being on soc wel. I did not contribute to the current mess. I did not purchase houses. I did not borrow massive sums of money. Can anyone still claim that this was irresponsible?

I fully agree with you, you should be out protesting, not just on one particular day, but EVERY SINGLE DAY, but not because this government are cutting your dole, BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T A PLAN TO GET YOU BACK TO WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life...

tudlytops

cson wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits

Loathe to use wikipedia as a source but it gives quite a good synopsis of the Welfare benefits in similar countries and the citations used are accurate.

As I have said, compare to our nearest neighbour the UK. The unemployment benefit there is just shy of £65 per week. That's equal to €72 at the current exhange rate. Notwithstanding VAT and minimum wage discrepancies along with other factors, is Ireland really 183% more expensive to live in? There's no real need to answer that. I think that little snapshot comparision of welfare benefits will tell you all you need to know in deciding if our welfare is generous or not.



Come on, add something constructive to the argument. You can do better than childish posts like that.

But in the UK rent allowance, called housing benefit is higher in same case one pays no rent at hall, and they have other benefits that are added to the unemployment benefit, they don't leave on €72 euro and that is it.

The benefits in Ireland are among the best in Europe, we here have no idea how lucky we are.

Do you know the min wages in Portugal is €500 a month's and rent's in Lisbon can be as high as in Dublin, try living with that, and they have no council housing.