Geniunely Disgusted at Mazzagatti

syncsyncboot

What the f*ck was he at last night. His primary purpose to is to protect fighters.

He should not have let Matt Hamill take that amount of damage. Hamill was never going to escape....and he let Jones drop shot after shot.... what was he waiting for..... ****ed if I know but what we got was a stupid DQ and Hamill's face/nose/and quite possibly brain f'd up.

Stupid Mazzagatti!

callaway92

wow.

rovert

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-jones120509&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Furious-Dave

Just watched the fight on Youtube (crappy camcorder recording of a TV but still good enough to watch) ABSOLUTELY APPALLING! There were so many clean legal elbows, not to mention punches, landed on Hamills head before the illegal ones that it should have been called long before it was. Mazzagatti is dangerous to the safety of fighters and should be sacked.

Shazbot

It's the ref's job to stop the fight when the fighter can't defend himself. Hamill was defending himself. He took a few hard hits but nothing stopped him defending himself. Only after the illegal elbows he went limp.

I'm agreeing with the ref on this one. He was defending himself but he never tried to escape. Difficult when you have Jones throwing dozens of strikes. Jones probably would have won the fight if not for the illegal elbows but before the illegal strikes, Hamill was defending himself.

Furious-Dave

Shazbot wrote: »

It's the ref's job to stop the fight when the fighter can't defend himself. Hamill was defending himself. He took a few hard hits but nothing stopped him defending himself. Only after the illegal elbows he went limp.

I'm agreeing with the ref on this one. He was defending himself but he never tried to escape. Difficult when you have Jones throwing dozens of strikes. He probably would have won the fight regardless but before the illegal strikes, Hamill was defending himself.

It's the refs job to stop the fight when the guy on bottom isn't "intelligently defending" himself, not when he "can't" defend. There were a lot of powerful strikes landing cleanly on Hamill's head, other refs would have stopped it.

Shazbot

Furious-Dave wrote: »

It's the refs job to stop the fight when the guy on bottom isn't "intelligently defending" himself, not when he "can't" defend.

You're right, i forgot to add "intelligently" defending himself. He was defending himself well, he was constantly grabbing the arms of Jones and stopping the strikes coming. He could have taken alot more.

The only thing I'll criticize Mazagatti for is not calling the illegal elbows sooner. There were alot landed before the ref intervention.

As I said, Hamill went limp after those elbows, but untill that point, he was successfully defending alot of the strikes.

bing3

Shazbot wrote: »

You're right, i forgot to add "intelligently" defending himself. He was defending himself well, he was constantly grabbing the arms of Jones and stopping the strikes coming. He could have taken alot more.

There was no point in him taking a lot more; he wasn't getting up from there. That said i dont think Mazzagatti let it go on ovely long. Hamill was doing an alright job of taking the brunt of them with his forearms.

The only thing I'll criticize Mazagatti for is not calling the illegal elbows sooner. There were alot landed before the ref intervention.

As I said, Hamill went limp after those elbows, but untill that point, he was successfully defending alot of the strikes.

These 12 to 6 elbows are a daft rule to try and police anyhow. If the guy on top is throwing flurries of elbows not all are going to land clean. Some will deflect and go where you didnt intend them. Better to do away with elbows on the deck altogether if they think they are that dangerous.

To have an illegal strike count as a loss after just one warning is ridiculous. Why they couldnt use their cop on and call it a No Contest is beyond me.

Fozzy

bing3 wrote: »

There was no point in him taking a lot more; he wasn't getting up from there. That said i dont think Mazzagatti let it go on ovely long. Hamill was doing an alright job of taking the brunt of them with his forearms.



These 12 to 6 elbows are a daft rule to try and police anyhow. If the guy on top is throwing flurries of elbows not all are going to land clean. Some will deflect and go where you didnt intend them. Better to do away with elbows on the deck altogether if they think they are that dangerous.

To have an illegal strike count as a loss after just one warning is ridiculous. Why they couldnt use their cop on and call it a No Contest is beyond me.

The elbows were intentional. If they were unintentional then it would have been a no contest

bing3

Fozzy wrote: »

The elbows were intentional. If they were unintentional then it would have been a no contest

Fair enough if he had been warned once and transgressed again then you can call it intentional but its just a judgement call otherwise.
Also AFAIK Hammill was unable to continue due to a purported dislocated shoulder which makes it all the more baffling.

Fozzy

bing3 wrote: »

Fair enough if he had been warned once and transgressed again then you can call it intentional but its just a judgement call otherwise.
Also AFAIK Hammill was unable to continue due to a purported dislocated shoulder which makes it all the more baffling.

If there's an intentional foul that ends the fight then there doesn't have to be a warning beforehand. Warnings are generally given for fouls that aren't going to end the fight (holding the fence, light shots to the back of the head). Jones knows the rules, his strikes were illegal and I think that he's only got himself to blame

JohnMc1

syncsyncboot wrote: »

What the f*ck was he at last night. His primary purpose to is to protect fighters.

He should not have let Matt Hamill take that amount of damage. Hamill was never going to escape....and he let Jones drop shot after shot.... what was he waiting for..... ****ed if I know but what we got was a stupid DQ and Hamill's face/nose/and quite possibly brain f'd up.

Stupid Mazzagatti!

And you are one of those people that would would complain if he stopped it too early.

bing3

Fozzy wrote: »

If there's an intentional foul that ends the fight then there doesn't have to be a warning beforehand. Warnings are generally given for fouls that aren't going to end the fight (holding the fence, light shots to the back of the head). Jones knows the rules, his strikes were illegal and I think that he's only got himself to blame

Fair enough and he seems to have accepted it himself. Just seems a bit harsh is all.

roo1981

I think Mazagatti did alright in this case. Jones GnP was kinda wild, a lot of his shots werent landing cleanly, Hamill seemed to be holding them off. Jones looked to be gassing when he started throwing the 12 to 6's, i thought Hamill might have scraped to the next round.

On a side note I thought it looked like Hamill actually thought he lost the fight in the post fight interview-he just kept talking about his arm being shot and not being able to defend himself, will be interesting to see the press conference...

JoeyJJ

Matt was grand before the illegals, good call by Maz, Bones has no reason to feel hard done by imo.

consultech

I wonder how much longer Mazagatti will be involved with reffing UFC (I'm aware the commission actually pick the refs, but you don't know what goes on behind the scenes with backhanders etc) following this, and Dana's outspoken criticism of Maz. His twitter has been gas:

"I actually called him the worst ref in the history of the world!! Not just MMA! There has NEVER been a worst ref in fighting history."

"Mazzagatti"

"Wanted to make sure Mark Cuban gets the quote right so the worst ref in history can respond to exactly what I said."

"Illegal knee instantly that mazzagatti doesn't call even when he is staring right at them!"

"I can't believe the nevada state athletic comm puts him in there!!!! Guy knows nothing about MMA. Scary"

"Herb Dean best ref in biz." <- lol

JohnMc1

consultech wrote: »

I wonder how much longer Mazagatti will be involved with reffing UFC (I'm aware the commission actually pick the refs, but you don't know what goes on behind the scenes with backhanders etc) following this, and Dana's outspoken criticism of Maz. His twitter has been gas:

"I actually called him the worst ref in the history of the world!! Not just MMA! There has NEVER been a worst ref in fighting history."

"Mazzagatti"

"Wanted to make sure Mark Cuban gets the quote right so the worst ref in history can respond to exactly what I said."

"Illegal knee instantly that mazzagatti doesn't call even when he is staring right at them!"

"I can't believe the nevada state athletic comm puts him in there!!!! Guy knows nothing about MMA. Scary"

"Herb Dean best ref in biz." <- lol

Proof positive that Dana is indeed an idiot. **** happens in a fight.

consultech

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Proof positive that Dana is indeed an idiot. **** happens in a fight.

They're not all in reference to Mazzagatti's performance last night. The top one's are from Friday.

Proof positive that Dana in fact knows what he's talking about. Mazzagatti just happened to fuck up again last night.

calex71

To be honest , as soon as I saw the the 1st of the 12 to 6 elbow's I said to myself "hey don't see those much"

consultech

calex71 wrote: »

To be honest , as soon as I saw the the 1st of the 12 to 6 elbow's I said to myself "hey don't see those much"

Mazzagatti was prob sayin the same thing!

JohnMc1

consultech wrote: »

They're not all in reference to Mazzagatti's performance last night. The top one's are from Friday.

Proof positive that Dana in fact knows what he's talking about. Mazzagatti just happened to fuck up again last night.

Unless Dana is going to pitch for sideline refs he should his mouth. Its impossible to see everything and its very easy to call things on the sideline. Inside is a whole different story.

Actually Big John is the best referee in MMA.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Was it Mazzagatti that broke up the Mir/Lesnar fight because Lesnar was striking to the back of Mir's head?

consultech

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Unless Dana is going to pitch for sideline refs he should his mouth. Its impossible to see everything and its very easy to call things on the sideline. Inside is a whole different story.

Actually Big John is the best referee in MMA.

We see it in every sport; commentators and pundits critisizing refs for making mistakes in real-time decisions.

Mazzagatti has always been a weak link though in my mind too.

I don't think Dana White's fairly reasonable assertions about him should see him labelled an "idiot" though. He's fairly on point about a lot of things.

dunkamania

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Was it Mazzagatti that broke up the Mir/Lesnar fight because Lesnar was striking to the back of Mir's head?

Yes it was.

I think Mazzaghatti gets too much abuse. He has made mistakes, and missed things, but in comparison to the other refs, he gets far too much abuse for his mistakes. I think Yves Lavigne has made much worse mistakes

syncsyncboot

dunkamania wrote: »

Yes it was.

I think Mazzaghatti gets too much abuse. He has made mistakes, and missed things, but in comparison to the other refs, he gets far too much abuse for his mistakes. I think Yves Lavigne has made much worse mistakes

You clearly don't understand the gravity and responsiblity afforded to the third man in the ring then. You are dealing with peoples occupation and long-term health...

They don't get put in there and paid...and we all hope they do a good job. Its a given that they do.... a bit like....pilots or testical surgeons... I don't think they should **** up!

Red Sleeping Beauty

I thought he did right in that Mir/Lesnar fight but there were people complaining about it and saying he's a sh*t ref because of it and now people are saying he wasn't strict enough. I haven't seen the fight mind you as I'm playing catchup on Setanta.

White's probably correct though... Herb Dean's the best ref they have.

Tim_Murphy

Some of ye guys should really check out the link Barry posted. Go on, you'll like it over on Sherdog.

ginoginelli

He made alot of mistakes in the past but i actually think he made the right call in the hamill/jones fight. The damage was done by the illegal strikes and matt couldnt continue, so he had no choice but to dq jones.

The part were he asked a deaf guy, blinded by blood in his eyes if he "was done" was kind of sucky though. Matt probably thought the fight had been stopped so didnt attempt to get up. It didnt matter anyway though due to matts injury but it could have been another ****storm on mazz..

Karmafaerie

Mazz did a great job on Saturday night.
He called it exactly as it should have been.

Hammil was not badly hurt by anything on the ground until "those" Elbows.
In fact, I had just made a bet that the'd survive the round.
Nearly all of Jones strikes were against Hammils gloves and forearms.
HAnd Matt was constantly scooting.
keeping jones off ballance.
Taking away his base.
If that fight had been stopped, I'd have been surprised.
Maz always talks to the fighters, and tells them they need to defend themselves, etc.
Hammil was in good shape right up until the illegal strikes, and had probably taken more damage on his feet, than while mounted.

Killme00

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Mazz did a great job on Saturday night.
He called it exactly as it should have been.

Hammil was not badly hurt by anything on the ground until "those" Elbows.
In fact, I had just made a bet that the'd survive the round.
Nearly all of Jones strikes were against Hammils gloves and forearms.
HAnd Matt was constantly scooting.
keeping jones off ballance.
Taking away his base.
If that fight had been stopped, I'd have been surprised.
Maz always talks to the fighters, and tells them they need to defend themselves, etc.
Hammil was in good shape right up until the illegal strikes, and had probably taken more damage on his feet, than while mounted.

I thnk you would have lost that bet. Hammill said in his interview after the fight that he hurt his shoulder at one stage so i really dont think he would have survived with only one arm to defend himslef. Jones made the mistake of getting carried away, he was very very close to a stoppage.

Oh and LOL at the bit in bold. "Taking away his base", are you kidding me, the poor guy was trying with everything he had to keep his hands up to stop the GNP.

I also dont think its right to critcise the referee in this case. It was very close to a stoppage but Hammill was just about defending himself.

All in all it was an unbelievable sh1t card. Next week will make up for it though with The Fight before Christmas follwed by UFC 107

jughead202

going to watch it again but i thought jones looked at mazzagati couple times see if he was stopping it

JohnMc1

Alan Rouge wrote: »

Was it Mazzagatti that broke up the Mir/Lesnar fight because Lesnar was striking to the back of Mir's head?

Yes. That's when a butt hurt Lesnar said afterwards he would never fight with Mazzagatti as ref again. I guess Lesnar wanted to think he was still in WWE where he can do whatever he wanted because it was in the script. Like a good groupie that he is Dana started his anti-Mazzagatti nonsense shortly after that.

rovert

JohnMc1 wrote: »

Yes. That's when a butt hurt Lesnar said afterwards he would never fight with Mazzagatti as ref again. I guess Lesnar wanted to think he was still in WWE where he can do whatever he wanted because it was in the script. Like a good groupie that he is Dana started his anti-Mazzagatti nonsense shortly after that.

Wait until Lesnar comes out with a spinny belt.

Karmafaerie

Killme00 wrote: »

I thnk you would have lost that bet. Hammill said in his interview after the fight that he hurt his shoulder at one stage so i really dont think he would have survived with only one arm to defend himslef. Jones made the mistake of getting carried away, he was very very close to a stoppage.

Oh and LOL at the bit in bold. "Taking away his base", are you kidding me, the poor guy was trying with everything he had to keep his hands up to stop the GNP.

I also dont think its right to critcise the referee in this case. It was very close to a stoppage but Hammill was just about defending himself.

All in all it was an unbelievable sh1t card. Next week will make up for it though with The Fight before Christmas follwed by UFC 107

Yes, a clearly concussed Mat Hammil, who thought that he's lost the fight, is your argument!
I used my eyes.

Try and rewatch the fight my friend.

And do you realise what I meant by taking away his base?!!

Karmafaerie

jughead202 wrote: »

going to watch it again but i thought jones looked at mazzagati couple times see if he was stopping it

He asked Mazzagati to stop it, and Steve told him that he wasn't going to stop it just cause he asked him to.

He wasn't landing clean strikes, until he got frustrated, and started the illegal strikes.

Fights don't (or shouldn't) get stopped due to punching a guy in the forearms over and over again!

consultech

Karmafaerie wrote: »

He asked Mazzagati to stop it, and Steve told him that he wasn't going to stop it just cause he asked him to.

He wasn't landing clean strikes, until he got frustrated, and started the illegal strikes.

Fights don't (or shouldn't) get stopped due to punching a guy in the forearms over and over again!

They weren't heavy impact shots either. They looked slow (understandably so, the chap was goin flat out G+P for about 60 seconds) and just looked to be pushin Hammil's head down rather than striking him. Was a bit of a weird technique tbh. There was just a lot of them, hence the damage.

That talkin to the ref shite is gettin far more prevalent. See McSweeney sayin to the ref "He's out" the second he got Schoonover in a guillotine in rd 1?- At the same time Schoonover's visibly pushing his head out of it. Gobshite. I absolutely HATE James McSweeney. He's a scumbag and a bully.

Karmafaerie

Yup.

McSweeny is a complete chump.
He was a joke on the show.

I liked nothing more than seeing him sticking his chin up only to get it knocked right back by Nelson.

His actions in the house were disgraceful, and the same in the Schoonover fight like you said.
He knew that he wasn't out, but was trying to con the reff.

consultech

Karmafaerie wrote: »

Yup.

McSweeny is a complete chump.
He was a joke on the show.

I liked nothing more than seeing him sticking his chin up only to get it knocked right back by Nelson.

His actions in the house were disgraceful, and the same in the Schoonover fight like you said.
He knew that he wasn't out, but was trying to con the reff.

Sure when he got in the fisties with Zak Jensen after lockin him in the bathroom in TUF; he was sayin "calm down, relax" etc, then throws a kick to the balls out of nowhere. Scum.

Getting sparked while showboating was fuckin delish though. I think I watched it back about a dozen times (although Im not a big fat ginger Elvis fan, as he's annoyingly delusional)

Killme00

Karmafaerie wrote: »

And do you realise what I meant by taking away his base?!!

Please explain it to me.

i will rewatch the fight tonight with your explanation in mind :rolleyes:

JohnMc1

rovert wrote: »

Wait until Lesnar comes out with a spinny belt.

Yeah and it will probably have his cocksword tat on it too.

Karmafaerie

Killme00 wrote: »

Please explain it to me.

i will rewatch the fight tonight with your explanation in mind :rolleyes:

When you were rewatching, I'm sure you noticed Hammil constantly scooting.
Meaning that Jones had to constantly adjust his position.
Which means that he wasn't able to get as much power or control behind his strikes.
Which meant that Hammil was able to defend easier.

TechnoPool

i thought hamill was doing an alright job of deflecting the majority of the shots when jones was on top but some where clearly getting through.


But asking a deaf guy are you done in a Loud arena while he has blood in his eyes is fairly stupid.

Valmont

and you guys thought Yves Lavigne did a bad job! Hamill took many elbows and punches to the head well before the illegal elbows were dropped and he didn't attempt to improve his position at all during the whole mount. This one went on way too long. Lovely throw by Jones all the same and I'm sure most people will consider it a win for him anyway. I hope they don't have a rematch.

edit: I still don't consider scooting to be enough of a defense to not stop the fight, especially looking at some of the legal elbows he landed.

barochoc

calex71 wrote: »

To be honest , as soon as I saw the the 1st of the 12 to 6 elbow's I said to myself "hey don't see those much"

I agree. I wasn't even sure myself. I knew Matt was in big trouble after the 1st 12-6 landed. They are savage & would probably be used in a street fight.

Matt looked messed up. The fact he's deaf & his eyes were full of blood made the stoppage a no brainer.

I think Mazzagatti was unsure about the 12-6 elbow. Maybe he didn't get a good angle. After all, we have many angles on TV & sometimes see things the ref doesn't (Thierry Henry anyone!)

This fight aside I think Mazzagatti is a poor ref at the best of times. He stopped the Velasquez v Rothwell fight too early & nobody can forget the 1st Mir v Lesnar fight where he stopped the fight to deduct a point from Lesnar for striking the back of Mirs head when he knocked him down. Then he started to maul Mir again but got caught caught in one of the longest heels hooks in history. Lesnar was tapping for a long time before Mazzagatti woke up & stopped the fight.

It could have been a career ending injury had it have gone a second longer!

Anyway, Brown should not have lost that fight. It should have been a no contest. He had it won anyway & the 12-6 elbow didn't win it for him. He simply changed angle as Hamil was trying to block his elbows.

Brown is a serious contender & the man to watch at 185. I think he'd be a great fight for Silva in 1-2 years. He's only 22 if I'm right. Scary! :eek:

Lord Muck

barochoc wrote: »

I agree. I wasn't even sure myself. I knew Matt was in big trouble after the 1st 12-6 landed. They are savage & would probably be used in a street fight.

Matt looked messed up. The fact he's deaf & his eyes were full of blood made the stoppage a no brainer.

I think Mazzagatti was unsure about the 12-6 elbow. Maybe he didn't get a good angle. After all, we have many angles on TV & sometimes see things the ref doesn't (Thierry Henry anyone!)

This fight aside I think Mazzagatti is a poor ref at the best of times. He stopped the Velasquez v Rothwell fight too early & nobody can forget the 1st Mir v Lesnar fight where he stopped the fight to deduct a point from Lesnar for striking the back of Mirs head when he knocked him down. Then he started to maul Mir again but got caught caught in one of the longest heels hooks in history. Lesnar was tapping for a long time before Mazzagatti woke up & stopped the fight.

It could have been a career ending injury had it have gone a second longer!

Anyway, Brown should not have lost that fight. It should have been a no contest. He had it won anyway & the 12-6 elbow didn't win it for him. He simply changed angle as Hamil was trying to block his elbows.

Brown is a serious contender & the man to watch at 185. I think he'd be a great fight for Silva in 1-2 years. He's only 22 if I'm right. Scary! :eek:

By Brown you mean Jones ?

consultech

barochoc wrote: »

I agree. I wasn't even sure myself. I knew Matt was in big trouble after the 1st 12-6 landed. They are savage & would probably be used in a street fight.

Matt looked messed up. The fact he's deaf & his eyes were full of blood made the stoppage a no brainer.

I think Mazzagatti was unsure about the 12-6 elbow. Maybe he didn't get a good angle. After all, we have many angles on TV & sometimes see things the ref doesn't (Thierry Henry anyone!)

This fight aside I think Mazzagatti is a poor ref at the best of times. He stopped the Velasquez v Rothwell fight too early & nobody can forget the 1st Mir v Lesnar fight where he stopped the fight to deduct a point from Lesnar for striking the back of Mirs head when he knocked him down. Then he started to maul Mir again but got caught caught in one of the longest heels hooks in history. Lesnar was tapping for a long time before Mazzagatti woke up & stopped the fight.

It could have been a career ending injury had it have gone a second longer!

Anyway, Brown should not have lost that fight. It should have been a no contest. He had it won anyway & the 12-6 elbow didn't win it for him. He simply changed angle as Hamil was trying to block his elbows.

Brown is a serious contender & the man to watch at 185. I think he'd be a great fight for Silva in 1-2 years. He's only 22 if I'm right. Scary! :eek:

Who the hell is Brown?

Naming people by their skin colour = Old school.

pablohoney87

barochoc wrote: »

I agree. I wasn't even sure myself. I knew Matt was in big trouble after the 1st 12-6 landed. They are savage & would probably be used in a street fight.

Matt looked messed up. The fact he's deaf & his eyes were full of blood made the stoppage a no brainer.

I think Mazzagatti was unsure about the 12-6 elbow. Maybe he didn't get a good angle. After all, we have many angles on TV & sometimes see things the ref doesn't (Thierry Henry anyone!)

This fight aside I think Mazzagatti is a poor ref at the best of times. He stopped the Velasquez v Rothwell fight too early & nobody can forget the 1st Mir v Lesnar fight where he stopped the fight to deduct a point from Lesnar for striking the back of Mirs head when he knocked him down. Then he started to maul Mir again but got caught caught in one of the longest heels hooks in history. Lesnar was tapping for a long time before Mazzagatti woke up & stopped the fight.

It could have been a career ending injury had it have gone a second longer!

Anyway, Brown should not have lost that fight. It should have been a no contest. He had it won anyway & the 12-6 elbow didn't win it for him. He simply changed angle as Hamil was trying to block his elbows.

Brown is a serious contender & the man to watch at 185. I think he'd be a great fight for Silva in 1-2 years. He's only 22 if I'm right. Scary! :eek:

Is he by any chance mixing up matt broown with jones. Cuz the weight class is wrong too.

Karmafaerie

pablohoney87 wrote: »

Is he by any chance mixing up matt broown with jones. Cuz the weight class is wrong too.

I think it's the fact that there's an "appretiation" thread for Yves Lavigne about that match has confussed him a tad.

cmb.

consultech wrote: »

Who the hell is Brown?

Naming people by their skin colour = Old school.

thats the funniest thing ive read on these boards in a long time - a genuine 'lol' to you, sir

barochoc

Lord Muck wrote: »

By Brown you mean Jones ?

Yes I mean Jones. Sorry I was also commenting on a decision by Lavigne in the Sell v Brown match & it must have just slipped in there

Kent Brockman

Just saw the fight once and my initial impression was "Jesus H. Christ stop the effing fight! what the hell are you waiting for"
I thought that Hamil had taken far too many unanswered shots (some heavy ones at that) and wasn't even trying to escape.

Btw i am not a big fan of GnP at the best of times and found that quite disturbing.