ferguson 20 diesel hard to start!

roryq69

Got a fergie 20 in the process of rebuilding! got it sandblasted and painted and most of it back together. Connected up diesel lines and got it running about 4 weeks ago after months sitting in the shed in bits! Took ages to get the air out of the diesel lines. Went to start it yesterday to move it out of the shed but it just wouldnt start. Tried bleeding the lines again but still wouldnt even attempt to start. When i had it going a few weeks ago it sat a a nice even idle no little revs or nothin. thought i was on a real winner. Any ideas on what i should investigate?

Avns1s

Does it have a heater plug? If it does and its not working, then it would make a big difference in the current weather.


Was it always hard to start? If so, whats the compression like at this stage?

Also did you remove and refit the injector pump? Timing could be out if you did and this could affect the starting without having a noticable effect on the idle.

Is the starter gone lazy, and is the battery in good condition with good connections?

These are the main things I can think of that could cause it to be hard to start. Hope it helps.

roryq69

It started 4 weeks ago after quite a bit of bleeding but once i got it going I could stop it and start it as many tims as i liked! When i bought it started real easy. that was 4 months ago. I marked the diesel pump and the engine block with a small chisel so i could line them up correctly when refitting! Battery was good till i flattened it tryin to start it again. Then i used jump leads off my van but no good! Prob not the best thing to do. It has a heater plug but i dont have it wired to the ignition yet! But it kept in the shed all the time so it still should have tried to start?

Avns1s

Did you open one of the pipes on an injector after you bled it at the pump, and then try starting it???

Have you tried bleeding it again at the pump? There are no issues with the lift pump per chance??

The van battery, connected via good jump leads should be well able to start it. Leave the van running for a while at a high idle to charge the tractor battery.

roryq69

Yes took off the number one pipe and turned the engine till i had no air coming out! the lift pump seems to be working fine. Puts plenty of diesel out at the bleed screw. Cant see it being the injectors as it ran o.k b4? Will check all your sugestion again just to be sure. Should the liftpump be able to put a jet of diesel out? Mine only makes it flow out no jet! Was looking at a step by step video from a mf135 on youtube!

Avns1s

Well, I dont know if you'd describe it as a jet but it should certainly come out of the injector pump bleed screws with more than a dribble, i.e. with a fair degree of force.

Still, if you have diesel at the injector pump, the engine should start if everythign else is ok.

What is coming out of the injector pipes?

roryq69

I didnt get a chance to have another go at starting it yet but when i do i'll leave a comment on what did and didnt happen or if hopefully it does start. i notice a leak pipe that goes from the bottom of the tank to the bottom of each injector! would i be right in thinking it could be drawing air there and with it sitting for a few weeks could have drained the diesel from the injectors?
I havent started it because i'm cleaning the back rims and fenders for painting hope to have it rolling by the weekend!

corkcomp

you are trying to start an old 4 cyl tractor without any heater plug? being in the shed wont help it too much, I bet if you try heating the mainifold around where the plug is with a gas torch etc it will start way easier... Ive never seen an old ferguson without heater plugs starting easily from cold ..

Johnny_Klebitz

Did you try an aerosol called Easy Start?

You would spray it in to the air intake while the engine was soinning over on the starter. Used to have to do that on an old JCB years ago to get it started on the odd cold morning..

jetfiremuck

Dont use easy start. Use Wd40 its much safe than the ether. You could break a piston ring with the ether and the bark/clatter from the engine would scare you.

roryq69

the wiring was a bit dodgy when i got it so i've only but enough back on to Get it running! Not entirely sure how to hook it up right so not sure where to connect the heater plug? Its been converted to an altenator from a dynamo at soome point in its past so i cant find a straight forward wiring diagram to follow! Am a bit of a novice at this tinkering. But i know never to use easy start! Real bad **** that! Should be banned! Will give the wd-40 a go and the heat gun! Might solve my problem! Can anyone post pics of how heaterplug should be connected etc?

corkcomp

roryq69 wrote: »

the wiring was a bit dodgy when i got it so i've only but enough back on to Get it running! Not entirely sure how to hook it up right so not sure where to connect the heater plug? Its been converted to an altenator from a dynamo at soome point in its past so i cant find a straight forward wiring diagram to follow! Am a bit of a novice at this tinkering. But i know never to use easy start! Real bad **** that! Should be banned! Will give the wd-40 a go and the heat gun! Might solve my problem! Can anyone post pics of how heaterplug should be connected etc?

you could just connect a wire from heater plug to positive battery terminal for about 30 sec, then take it off and try starting it straight away ..

snowman707

drain the cooling system and fill with fairly warm water

fastrac94

ther is a cold start button on the injector pump of thoes 20s,make sur thats pressed in also use the pump on the dash to pump small drop of diesel on heater plug once u have heated it for 30 secs,small piece of wire or even a jumplead from battery positive pole to heaterplug connection......

Mr188

screw off the brass pushbutton on the injector pump make sure the rack is not stuck.It should be able to move in and out , spray some wd40 on it if it,s stuck and move it in and out , the Ard na crushagh power station wouldn,t start one of these if the rack is stop in the wrong position.

marlyman

ill get you a wiring diagram for your 20 tomorrow. ill see if i have a manual also. pm me your email address

roryq69

WOOHOO!!!!! Finally got it going again. Turned out that one of the injectors had stopped working. Got a second hand one and with a few of the tricks i got from you lot it started. Nearly complete now just got to finish the wiring thats where i'm stuck! The tractor was converted to an altenator b4 we got it and the wiring was a complete mess. Now i cannot figure out how to connect the altenator to the ammeter,the dash light, and to the battery. Its a lucas altenator and its got 2 heavy red wires and a light blue wire comin from the altenator. the 2 red wires are then joined together into one wire. The blue one has a 3 inch long black lump in the middle which i presume is a resistor? Can anybody tell me which wire goes where. There doesnt appear to be any stud on the back of the altenator to connect a lead from the battery to. Got a few pics of the back of the altenator if they help. Any help would be appreciated. thanks!

Slidey

The 2 red wires will go on to the main battery supply terminal at the starter. From there they will charge the battery.

The small blue wire is the exciter wire. Bring a positive fused ignition supply to your charging light and connect the blue wire to the other terminal on the bulb. This feed is what gets the alternator charging when it first starts to turn, once it starts to charge, you loose the earth and your ignition light goes out.

jimmyw

Jeez! those 2 red wires look like you weld with them;).A bit overkill I think.One of them is for charging the battery, and the other one to sense the amount of charge in the batt to tell the alternator when its fully charged. But maybe you only need one of them, as some alternators only use one to do both tasks. Maybe you should replace whats there too.

roryq69

where do i connect the ammeter clock? on the exciter wire or take a tail from one of the red ones and back again? When you say loosen the earth do you mean it does this itself or i have to do it? You got a real novice here!!!
(Jimmyw)The red wires are part of a connector block that was with the altenator. They look to be the orginal connections to the altenator and somebody just extended them for the tractor.

Slidey

If you were to connect the ammeter I would assume it would need to go between the output on the alternator and the battery. This will mean that you cannot bring the two red wires to the starter terminal though. The current will have to route through the ammeter before it gets to the battery or else you will get a false reading.

Make sure you connect the wires the right way or it will cook it.

jimmyw

Yeah you can connect it in series where the cables are connected at the batt or solenoid. But I think ammeters have to cover the high output that an alternator produces and are best suited to dynamos. A voltmeter is easier to fit.




I may be wrong???????

roryq69

I still cant get the ammeter to register any power nor will the warning light come on. i connected the 2 red wires to the top stud on the solenoid and the light blue wire to the warning light and then to the ignition. the light never lit at all. tested the light in case it was faulty but it works fine! this thing really has me stumped. Thanks for all the help all the same! Gonna get my hands on a multi meter to see if its charging even though it wont put on the light.

roryq69

Slidey wrote: »

If you were to connect the ammeter I would assume it would need to go between the output on the alternator and the battery. This will mean that you cannot bring the two red wires to the starter terminal though. The current will have to route through the ammeter before it gets to the battery or else you will get a false reading.

Make sure you connect the wires the right way or it will cook it.

I was under the impression that the clock would read a negative charge if it was connected wrong not get fried?

Slidey

It depends if the clock was capable of reading a negative charge!

If you take the blue wire off the alternator and earth it the ignition light should come on, if not you have a problem with your wiring

jimmyw

http://www.fordification.com/tech/images/ammeter-schematic.jpg

http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/images/AlternatorWiringOverview-1973to1985Buick.jpg

Might help!

roryq69

thanks for those they look pretty easy to follow thanks. Noticed an oil leak at the front pulley seal so had to remove the timing chain cover to replace it and when i had it all open decided i should check the timing as well. Discoverd it was a little off the timing so after lots of rifling through the service manual i got it set right. Starting much easier now thank god. when i get it back together i'll take another stab at this pesky altenator!

roryq69

O.k! Have the tractor back together but when i took it for a short drive around the house i niticed a knock in the engine! Can only put it down to me not setting the timing properly. Think i'll have to get a professional to give it the once over b4 i start it again. But the good news is that i have pics to put up woo hoo!

roryq69

just a few more!

Slidey

Well done rory, it looks clean anyway!

mista_2k10

Looks well! great job made of refurbing it

corkcomp

from looking at the pictures thats one of the better 20 restorations ive seen .. well done:D

Emmet Manning 99

Mr188 wrote: »

screw off the brass pushbutton on the injector pump make sure the rack is not stuck.It should be able to move in and out , spray some wd40 on it if it,s stuck and move it in and out , the Ard na crushagh power station wouldn,t start one of these if the rack is stop in the wrong position.

What is the brass pushbutton? The button on the side of the pump? As my 20 is fairly har started these days