A call to all the unemployed

baaaa

The government has stood up to the unions,finally something positive.
Perhaps we would have been subject to bigger cuts in welfare if this had not been done.
The government must be supported in this action at all costs.

corglass

In all fairness, the social welfare bill is WAY to big! The dole should be reduced by a minimum of 20%.
It's simply not sustainable at current levels. I've heard no convincing arguments for keeping the dole at its current levels! Unless someone here has any?

Dave!

Means test all dole recipients

Dave!

Dave! wrote: »

Means test all dole recipients

So punish the people who have actually paid for their dole contributions?


JSB should be kept at the full amount (pre budget cut).

JSA should be cut in half.

AdrianII

dole is too high for starters, who is to say it wont be cut?

too many non nationals being fed, clothed, etc on benefits?

too many people going up north, people on the dole going up and spending there money on groceries etc because it is cheaper, gov should be trying to do something about this, its basically giving the irish money into the UKs hands

johngalway

corglass wrote: »

In all fairness, the social welfare bill is WAY to big! The dole should be reduced by a minimum of 20%.
It's simply not sustainable at current levels. I've heard no convincing arguments for keeping the dole at its current levels! Unless someone here has any?

The argument for not reducing it, and it's inevitable that it will be reduced, is try living on it.

No, really, do. I don't want or need a reply to this post, just try it, say for one month.

And, no, I'm not on it

asdasd

Means test all dole recipients

Do the exact opposite. If people have paid in, no means test. If they havent, reduce the dole anyway. PArtic. for under 25s who haven't worked.

Lirael

AdrianII wrote: »

dole is too high for starters, who is to say it wont be cut?

too many non nationals being fed, clothed, etc on benefits?

too many people going up north, people on the dole going up and spending there money on groceries etc because it is cheaper, gov should be trying to do something about this, its basically giving the irish money into the UKs hands

first of all - have u ever tried to live on 204.30 euros pw, paying rent bills etc and feed your kids????????? if you had u would never say anything such ridiculous as this ... I do so I know what that means when u have to count every penny ...

and as for shopping in UK - YES if I have lived nearer the border I would absolutely shop there ... UK has VAT " 15% when Ireland has it " 21,5% - do u spot the difference?????????????????

and btw - there are much more Irish sitting on doles for decades .... cut them first !

AdrianII

AdrianII wrote: »

too many people going up north, people on the dole going up and spending there money on groceries etc because it is cheaper, gov should be trying to do something about this, its basically giving the irish money into the UKs hands

Thats the part I love. Irish people spending their dole across the border, and people from the north coming across the border to try get the dole

Lirael

Lirael wrote: »

first of all - have u ever tried to live on 204.30 euros pw, paying rent bills etc and feed your kids????????? if you had u would never say anything such ridiculous as this ... I do so I know what that means when u have to count every penny ...

and as for shopping in UK - YES if I have lived nearer the border I would absolutely shop there ... UK has VAT " 15% when Ireland has it " 21,5% - do u spot the difference?????????????????

If you have kids, rent and bills you're getting far more than 204.30 per week.

pidgion

just a few thoughts firstly the u/b or u/a is means tested and is your answer to stop people from getting the best value for there few quid people would not go up north if this government had half a brain between them all when everyone else cut tax rates our brains decided to increase it and the vat so i do not begrudge any one getting the best value for there money when our government wont give you any ?????

CamperMan

corglass wrote: »

In all fairness, the social welfare bill is WAY to big! The dole should be reduced by a minimum of 20%.
It's simply not sustainable at current levels. I've heard no convincing arguments for keeping the dole at its current levels! Unless someone here has any?

cut it by 50%

AdrianII

Lirael wrote: »

first of all - have u ever tried to live on 204.30 euros pw, paying rent bills etc and feed your kids????????? if you had u would never say anything such ridiculous as this ... I do so I know what that means when u have to count every penny ...

and as for shopping in UK - YES if I have lived nearer the border I would absolutely shop there ... UK has VAT " 15% when Ireland has it " 21,5% - do u spot the difference?????????????????

have tried living on it, and yes it is very tough, but there are others who abuse the dole.

As for shopping in the UK, the country is in the crap at the moment, people should be spending there money down here, there is no point in the gov paying wages and dole then to see it spent over teh border. They need to do something about this fast, people going up north are doing nothing to help the country

My name is URL

It would be hugely unfair to expect welfare payments not to be cut as much as they're expected to be just because of todays breakdown of talks

the money saved on PS wages should not mean that those on the dole will avoid cuts

I hope fuel and care allowances etc for the elderly are not touched though, that would just be low

Lirael

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you have kids, rent and bills you're getting far more than 204.30 per week.

no I don't, I get just 204.30 pw

asdasd

Wy wouldnt you get childs allowance, and rent allowance etc.?

Lirael

Lirael wrote: »

no I don't, I get just 204.30 pw

If the dole is your only household income then you're entitled to alot more.

Lirael

AdrianII wrote: »

have tried living on it, and yes it is very tough, but there are others who abuse the dole.

As for shopping in the UK, the country is in the crap at the moment, people should be spending there money down here, there is no point in the gov paying wages and dole then to see it spent over teh border. They need to do something about this fast, people going up north are doing nothing to help the country

excuse me - but is the country helping them?? no, so why would they help the gvt?

use just simple maths ... there is 6,5% in price difference, so I could buy more for less ... it's simple logic in the tough times ...

I have lived in a postcomunist country and I still remember what it means when u cannot afford ie a simple toy for your kid...

Dave!

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

So punish the people who have actually paid for their dole contributions?


JSB should be kept at the full amount (pre budget cut).

JSA should be cut in half.

Get rid of that mindset, nobody is being 'punished', no more than they're being 'rewarded' with the full amount if they've paid taxes for years. It's about keeping the country afloat.

I live with my parents and have no children of my own, yet I get the full amount. I know plenty of people in the same boat, most just finished college. What do they need €200 a week for?

asdasd

I live with my parents and have no children of my own, yet I get the full amount. I know plenty of people in the same boat, most just finished college. What do they need €200 a week for?

It doesnt matter. The Dole means nothing if it doesnt tide people over for a while. It is a social insurance. People pay in, they should get out regardless of means - like any other insurance.

In your case there may a reason to cut if people are living at home - in fact that used to be the case for the non-means testes version. Happened to me innediately after college. I lived at home. No dole.

pidgion

i just hope that the few of ye that are talking about cutting them by 20% to 50% never have to depend on the measly few quid that the unemployed get and are supposed to make ends meet and live with some degree of pride i now a lot of good people on the dole who went thru college and done there trade to find themselfs with F/all its the narrow minded of ye that have never went without that looks for these things hope it allways stays good for ye

AdrianII

Lirael wrote: »

excuse me - but is the country helping them?? no, so why would they help the gvt?

is the govt not giving them money / benefit payments, is this not helping them

look im not judging anyone on what they do/ where they spend they money. Im just stating my opinion, which is, the people that recieve benefits / people that have jobs and then spend there money up north and then give out about the gov and the state of the country at the moment is when they are taking the irish money that SHOULD be re invested in the irish economy, it doesnt make sense

Lirael

AdrianII wrote: »

is the govt not giving them money / benefit payments, is this not helping them

look im not judging anyone on what they do/ where they spend they money. Im just stating my opinion, which is, the people that recieve benefits / people that have jobs and then spend there money up north and then give out about the gov and the state of the country at the moment is when they are taking the irish money that SHOULD be re invested in the irish economy, it doesnt make sense

oh I agree with you, so for me the Irish gvrt is commiting a suicide not doing just a simple thing as cutting VAT rates for example, that would help a lot more than cutting doles .... and would probably make excursions to UK less frequent ...

Dave!

asdasd wrote: »

It doesnt matter. The Dole means nothing if it doesnt tide people over for a while. It is a social insurance. People pay in, they should get out regardless of means - like any other insurance.

In your case their may a reason to cut if people are living at home - in fact that used to be the case for the non-means testes version. Happened to me innediately after college. I lived at home. No dole.

It does tide people over, most people living with their parents don't need €200 a week. €150 would do fine.

I don't see why it should be the case that they pay in and get out regardless. Surely it's the case that we all pay taxes, they go into the coffers and are used and distributed by our elected government in a prudent manner.

In the current economic climate it would be prudent to reduce SW payments for those who do not need it.

jenzz

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

If you have kids, rent and bills you're getting far more than 204.30 per week.

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

I am unemployed since June 2009. I have worked & paid full, high rate taxes for 16 years. Im not a scounger, Im not a waster & im certainly not a tosser. I didnt choose social welfare. Circumstances change for everyone & no one knows what is around the corner for their own circumstances. Its very easy to say slash SW but try living on it to actually realise €102.50 literly goes no where.

Not a lot really is it.

pidgion

why hit the lowest paid ?? why arent the big boys taking the cuts remember 10% of there money is more often than not a months money for someone on the DOLE how much have the bankers /the tds /the big building contractors /the banks/bankmanagers been cut nothing they started the problem and its left to the eejit on the dole to suffer and pay it back and bail them out again and no offence to anyone by me saying eejit on the dole

Lirael

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

Not a lot really is it.

i don't get rent supplement so i actually live on 50 euro pw

and i don't get increase for my kids ...

judas101

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

Not a lot really is it.

To put some perspective on your arguement, thats about the same as i earn a in month working 5 days a week.

And no one is paying my rent.


Maybe I should have some kids I cant afford

jenzz

asdasd wrote: »

because of the rent which is falling.


You do reliase what 1510 PW is per year?

Work out what a worker would have to make to get that net.

EDIT:

Let me do it.

1510 * 52 = 78,520. Probably need to be on 100K to earn that.

€256 a week, 4 weeks in a month, €1510 net income PER MONTH less rent 1100, € 410 per month, divide by 4 weeks, average €102.50 per week. That was in response to the previous poster who said you get a lot more money than €204 per week. You dont

judas101

judas101 wrote: »

To put some perspective on your arguement, thats about the same as i earn a in month working 5 days a week.

And no one is paying my rent.


Maybe I should have some kids I cant afford

Exactly.

2 parents and 2 kids with social welfare as the only income works out at over 40K a year. How anyone can justify that is beyond me.


Before any more people make the assumption that I want all social welfare cut by 50% - I don't. Job seekers BENEFIT is what you get when you've paid your contributions and should remain unchanged.
Job seekers ALLOWANCE is what you get when you've been on the dole for 1 year+ or have simply just been on the dole your whole life having contributed nothing.

I'm saying that Job seekers ALLOWANCE should be cut by 50%.


The dole is supposed to be a stop gap to help you back onto your feet, not a lifestyle choice.

jenzz

jenzz wrote: »

€256 a week, 4 weeks in a month, €1510 net income PER MONTH less rent 1100, € 410 per month, divide by 4 weeks, average €102.50 per week. That was in response to the previous poster who said you get a lot more money than €204 per week. You dont

Rent somewhere cheaper?
1100 a month is more than a lot of peoples mortgages..

jenzz

judas101 wrote: »

To put some perspective on your arguement, thats about the same as i earn a in month working 5 days a week.

And no one is paying my rent.


Maybe I should have some kids I cant afford

What has having kids got to do with it ?

Kids were born when I worked. I have always worked - bar since June this year when I LOST MY JOB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But they have to eat too, & have a roof over their heads & have a uniform on going to school. Now they dont need Mcdonalds & they dont need designer shoes on their feet - which they dont get !! But they need the basics which cost money.

Are people under some big huge illusion out there that all the people on SW choose it??? Like we twaddle down the social & say here Ill have a go of this thingy??

You know that big RECESSION out there ? Banks, Nama whatever you want to argue about - We unemployed did not chose to lose our jobs. getting pretty browned off with people thinking we woke up one morning & just decided we would go on the dole for a while !!

I really wish none of ye lose your jobs & god forbid have to "try" the social out for a while.

jenzz

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Rent somewhere cheaper?
1100 a month is more than a lot of peoples mortgages..

Your missing the point - people say we get loads more money - we dont - Thats it !

MaceFace

Lirael wrote: »

i don't get rent supplement so i actually live on 50 euro pw

and i don't get increase for my kids ...

I really don't want to pry into your personal life but you opened the door with your statements.

You have to explain your situation as there is no way you are only getting 204 a week if you have kids and your partner is not working. Unless of course you are being means tested and are loaded.

Or maybe your a young girl who lives at home with her folks?

louisa200

Ok, cut the dole by 50%.. this means however many people ont he dole (a fair few) will have less to spend in good ole republic shops, local ammenities, public transport etc etc... meaning 50% reduction of services provided and no doubt meaning thousands of people will loose jobs... raise the dole by 50% and stimulate the economy and create more jobs.. yeehaaa lol x

It is ridiculous that some people are suggesting cutting the dole by 50%, 20% even.. imagine working for years, only to be unemployed in the last few weeks (like hundreds of people in this country because the government has done nothing to save or create jobs) and suggest to those poor buggers that the measly dole should be cut by 50%... what planet are people living on???? doh

hmmm

I think Job Seekers benefit should be much higher, like in other countries it should be a % of former salary.

Some people are on Job Seekers Allowance for years however. We had to import 100s of thousands of immigrants to sweep our floors, yet we still had 250,000 Irish people drawing the dole. I'd love to know why we continue to pay this group of people who are obviously unwilling to work.

Drawing Dead

Dave! wrote: »

Get rid of that mindset, nobody is being 'punished', no more than they're being 'rewarded' with the full amount if they've paid taxes for years. It's about keeping the country afloat.

I live with my parents and have no children of my own, yet I get the full amount. I know plenty of people in the same boat, most just finished college. What do they need €200 a week for?

approx;

total weekly income 265euro (dole + rent allowance)

110euro/week - rent + household bills
50euro/week - food
40euro/week - clothes, misc items
40euro/week - my personal allowance
20euro/week- left in bank for times such as christmas, birthdays, unforssen circumstances

people need that money to live. however cost of living and government expences must come down so i think a 20-30euro cut would be far.

MaceFace

louisa200 wrote: »

Ok, cut the dole by 50%.. this means however many people ont he dole (a fair few) will have less to spend in good ole republic shops, local ammenities, public transport etc etc... meaning 50% reduction of services provided and no doubt meaning thousands of people will loose jobs... raise the dole by 50% and stimulate the economy and create more jobs.. yeehaaa lol x

It is ridiculous that some people are suggesting cutting the dole by 50%, 20% even.. imagine working for years, only to be unemployed in the last few weeks (like hundreds of people in this country because the government has done nothing to save or create jobs) and suggest to those poor buggers that the measly dole should be cut by 50%... what planet are people living on???? doh

Why not continue with your logic and double the dole. Hell, triple it......

snubbleste

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

How can the CWO award only €486 rent supplement for such a high rent of €1100?
There are rent thresholds and you are supposed to contribute only €24 per week yourself
There is something missing here.

louisa200

MaceFace wrote: »

Why not continue with your logic and double the dole. Hell, triple it......

Why not!!! but only give it in tokens that can be redeemed in the republic lol.. I should be in the dail.....:D

baaaa

Just how stupid are people?How much exactly do people think the country can save by cutting the dole from 200 to whatever.
Typical public sector foundation level maths,not a clue about anything economic except their paycheck.

skearon

Lirael wrote: »

and as for shopping in UK - YES if I have lived nearer the border I would absolutely shop there ... UK has VAT " 15% when Ireland has it " 21,5% - do u spot the difference?????????????????

The difference is a mere 6.5% and from January the UK VAT rate is going back to 17.5% (some say 20%) as the cut in their VAT was a failure as it was not passed on to consumers. Exactly the same happened here when VAT was cut from 21% to 20%.

Lirael

MaceFace wrote: »

I really don't want to pry into your personal life but you opened the door with your statements.

You have to explain your situation as there is no way you are only getting 204 a week if you have kids and your partner is not working. Unless of course you are being means tested and are loaded.

Or maybe your a young girl who lives at home with her folks?

no I am not living with folks and not means tested

I don't get increase as it went to my husband but he is not working full time as he is in construction and has frequent lay offs

I don't get RS as I haven't applied for it yet as I am having trouble with the council getting an assesment letter from them which is neccessary and I am waiting for it a year ...

I don't complain but I think it is unfair to blame unemployed for the current downturn and request approval of cut offs from them 'coz the real reason of it lies somewhere else ...

I would be happy if I could come back to work as sitting at home is just fruitless and makes my chances to find job dropping the longer I stay at home ...

baaaa

To get back on point,the minute the public sector are ordered to march we must lauch a counter march to show our support and the like.
The government must know that they have our full support in this.It will save the dole in the long run and make next years round of cuts on the public sector easier than this years have been.

the_barfly1

To the mindless posters insinuating that its the lads on the dole going north to do their shopping:
Most people on the dole cant afford the travel expense to go north of the border to stock up on groceries..
Iirc wasn't the public sector strike only 2 weeks ago that coincided with a record amount of shoppers flooding Newry with business?
You've got real short memories folks. Give the people (like myself) who are out of work recently a break for gods sake. None of us want to be on the dole, and are breaking our bollocks' trying to get a job. Its no god damned gravy train. Ridiculous.

MaceFace

Lirael wrote: »

I don't complain but I think it is unfair to blame unemployed for the current downturn and request approval of cut offs from them 'coz the real reason of it lies somewhere else ...

I would be happy if I could come back to work as sitting at home is just fruitless and makes my chances to find job dropping the longer I stay at home ...

No one blames the unemployed.... don't ya know its the public sector, no wait, the private sector, or actually, is it the dole bludgers?

skearon

Lirael wrote: »

excuse me - but is the country helping them?? no, so why would they help the gvt?

use just simple maths ... there is 6,5% in price difference, so I could buy more for less ... it's simple logic in the tough times ...

I have lived in a postcomunist country and I still remember what it means when u cannot afford ie a simple toy for your kid...

The country is helping them by paying them a dole rate three times that of the UK!!!

Does a mere 6.5% cover transport costs and from January the difference will only be 4% or perhaps 1.5% in VAT rates.

Anyone who shops outside the state has absolutely no basis to complain about welfare or child benfits cuts as they are directly contributing to the cuts by their actions.

jenzz

snubbleste wrote: »

How can the CWO award only €486 rent supplement for such a high rent of €1100?
There are rent thresholds and you are supposed to contribute only €24 per week yourself
There is something missing here.

[/I]


I think its "you must" contribute at least €24 yourself; from what I can figure out its not all that you pay . They dont pay it all not that I would expect them to. But the rent supplement thing is so difficult to work out as it appears they means test the means test nearly. I think the reason I get that amount is I technically am entitled to one parent family supplement which when the add that to my SW & then means test all that, the €486 is the amount I am entitled based on that. The problem is that one parent family applic is in the " system" 18 weeks & has yet to be processed . So the CWO has to base the means for rent supp on all income & the 1 parent will be backdated so is classed technically income.
Hope I explained that well enough.

Im not complaining about they income I receive from the state. All I mean is that to cut it would be a further struggle to many people & many narrow minded people belive we get too much money. Unless people are living on this income they dont know how difficult it is to live on it.

TheInquisitor

jenzz wrote: »

Fact.
2 kids plus 1adult = 256 a week x 4 = €1024
rent supp= €486 pm

Total= €1510
minus rent: €1100

Total= €410

PW: €102.50

I am unemployed since June 2009. I have worked & paid full, high rate taxes for 16 years. Im not a scounger, Im not a waster & im certainly not a tosser. I didnt choose social welfare. Circumstances change for everyone & no one knows what is around the corner for their own circumstances. Its very easy to say slash SW but try living on it to actually realise €102.50 literly goes no where.

Not a lot really is it.

Ah move to a cheaper place....

People sometimes....

skearon

pidgion wrote: »

why hit the lowest paid ?? why arent the big boys taking the cuts remember 10% of there money is more often than not a months money for someone on the DOLE how much have the bankers /the tds /the big building contractors /the banks/bankmanagers been cut nothing they started the problem and its left to the eejit on the dole to suffer and pay it back and bail them out again and no offence to anyone by me saying eejit on the dole

They are, a mere 4% of tax payers contribute a huge 48% of income tax.

If the 'eejit on the dole' couldnt find work prior to 2008, then s/he deserves nothing

jenzz

Lirael wrote: »

no I am not living with folks and not means tested

I don't get increase as it went to my husband but he is not working full time as he is in construction and has frequent lay offs

I don't get RS as I haven't applied for it yet as I am having trouble with the council getting an assesment letter from them which is neccessary and I am waiting for it a year ...

I don't complain but I think it is unfair to blame unemployed for the current downturn and request approval of cut offs from them 'coz the real reason of it lies somewhere else ...

I would be happy if I could come back to work as sitting at home is just fruitless and makes my chances to find job dropping the longer I stay at home ...

+1 on the assessment letters. I am waiting 5 months for mine. The only reason I managed to get rent supp was my CWO took pity on me. The local corporation must do an environmental assessment on the house. My local corp refused to accept my applic as they had no one to accept it ( ie no staff). The head of the corporation happens to be a local TD so the CWO contacted him. Still no assessment.