Some clown just ran me down.

Captain Havoc

First off I'm fine just cuts to me elbow and knee (which would be getting cut later anyway on astroturf). I move around like a mobile Christmas tree, very strong front light, strong flashing red light on helmet, a hi-viz jacket, trousers and overshoes with that hi-viz strip on them. I entered the roundabout and was taking the third exit, the car behind slowed down as I was indicating to take the third exit when a car pulls out of the second entrance. I saw the car coming straight for me and put my free hand back on the handlebar swerved in towards the roundabout and hoped for the best: bang, into side of car wingmirror and door, down to ground like a sack of spuds. I got up, saw the driver had stopped and went over to her. She asked me if I was alright? I told yes but she needs to be more careful, it was busy, I was walking and didn't want to hold up this busy roundabout. She apologised and said she didn't see me coming (which I think is impossible unless she wasn't paying attention or blind). I told her fine but she really needs to pay better attention in the future.

As a cyclist, it's automatically my fault as I don't pay motor tax so I don't have a right to be on the road in the first place. €130 is obviously skimping on a front light. Hi-viz, you do look like a dork in them and they clearly have no effect and as for placing your flasing red light at the back of your helmet: don't bother.

Can tweedle dum and tweedle dee explain to me how someone who is blind can drive a car? I mean any moron can ride a bike but not get in a car, right? I know you will take much pleasure in my near death experience. Just because this muppet was blind doesn't mean I hold all drivers in the same light.

P.S. the helmet didn't get tested unfortunately so I'll have to wait for another day to give feedback there. Clipless pedals possibly stopped me from flying so I'll be recommending them.

72hundred

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Clipless pedals possibly stopped me from flying so I'll be recommending them.

Great to hear you're OK and took the whole ordeal so well.
But really do love the fact you've retained a sense of humour after (RE clipless comment).

I'll leave the others kick off the debate/giveout/whatever properly.

Bunnyhopper

Glad to hear you're ok.

There's only so much you can do. Some people just have blind spots the size of their own haste.

Did you get her details?

Also, even if you did hold all drivers in the same light - and a €130 light at that - some of them still wouldn't see your point...

Lots of idiots on the road. Lost count myself the amount of times people have pulled out in front of me. It's part of the reason I bought an Air Zound.

Glad you're doing OK.

Esroh

Glad to hear your ok
As someone who has done 4 different driver safty courses in work inthe last 3 months and am now described as a professional driver on my contract I can say that its people just not thinking of anything other than 'I must get on RaB asap '. In the last 2 weeks I have seen so many close shaves for cyclists no Gaways many little and large RaBs in both broad daylight and Darkness that I am amazed people do not get hit more often

DirkVoodoo

Glad you're ok Captain!

I'm sure it was the same old story: here comes a bike, they are slow, I can beat it! Hard to believe she didn't see you, the beauty of roundabouts is you only need to look in one direction (well, ideally you should be more observant, but for the idiot drivers amongst us).

I've had people try to undertake me on roundabouts, they are not the most bike friendly traffic controls out there.

Valmont

What are clipless pedals? I'm starting to cycle a lot more now and I am curious about the best ways to stay safe apart from the obvious ones of course. Glad to hear that you're ok OP, that could have went a lot worse!

baaaa

Similiar thing happened to me 3 weeks back,man and wife in car,both obviously blind.I got up quickly on my bike,kicked off their mirror and went on my way.

seanybiker

Good to hear it wasnt to bad. You where lucky in that way.
I dont cycle myself but if it was me I would have cracking on the woman.

Captain Havoc

Valmont wrote: »

What are clipless pedals? I'm starting to cycle a lot more now and I am curious about the best ways to stay safe apart from the obvious ones of course. Glad to hear that you're ok OP, that could have went a lot worse!

It's a system where your shoes clip to your pedal via a cleat at the bottom of your shoe. This helps energy transfer from your foot to the bike. I use SPD type for commuting, they are easy to clip out of if you need to. In this instance it possibly but not neccessarily stopped me from going onto the bonit of the car because I stayed attached to my bike, this how as ever can be a down side. The SPD style have a good adjustment level so you can have them really tight or loose to get out of quickly.

Wikipedia

ednwireland

glad to hear your ok. But i reckon you blinded them with all that hi viz

Canis Lupus

seanybiker wrote: »

if it was me I would have cracking on the woman.

On a busy roundabout? There's a time and a place for that sorta carry on

Mr. Presentable

She didn't see you because she wasn't looking. A lot of drivers are of the "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist" persuasion. And at the risk of seeming sexist, in my experience females make the majority of these. It is no coincidence that of all accidents involving a junction, female drivers account for c75%.

Am well pleased you are OK.

The tax man

Glad to hear you're OK Captain H. You certainly dealt well with the incident.

Morel of the story.....stop playing football.:p

TimAllen

baaaa wrote: »

Similiar thing happened to me 3 weeks back,man and wife in car,both obviously blind.I got up quickly on my bike,kicked off their mirror and went on my way.

Well done you .. doing your bit for motorist/cyclist relations .... words fail to adequately describe the kind of lowlife scum that engage in such activity.
But extra special kudos must go to anyone who would condone such criminal behaviour by putting a "thanks" on the post ...classy stuff guys:rolleyes:

Op - glad you're ok and mature about what was obviously an accident

mal1

Glad to hear your ok.

I got knocked off by a taxi about 1 month ago. I was going down a very straight road and he was trying to join the road from another road in front of me to my left. I thought he could see me (it was daylight and i was in high vis with my lights on) but he came out in front of me. I tried to go around him but I hit the side of his car. He buckled my wheel and left me lying in the middle of the road. I wasn't hurt and he said sorry and paid for the new wheel (110euro). He said he was concentrating on the cars coming down the road in the distance behind me and somehow didn't see me.:mad: Sounded crazy but somehow he didn't see me

TimAllen

I want to make sure I keep within the new charter rule against negativity (apparently dreamed up by Lumen in the last few days - I wonder who he could be targeting? Someone doesnt take losing a debate very well me thinks)
Well done OP again on taking a mature approach to the incident although I think you lessen your position by thanking the criminal who posted his account of criminal damage - would probably be better if such posts (which are relatively common on this forum) were outlawed in the charter!

blorg

nipplenuts wrote: »

She didn't see you because she wasn't looking. A lot of drivers are of the "if I don't see it, it doesn't exist" persuasion.

Often the driver "isn't looking", but it is not always that simple. Sometimes they are looking straight at you, but still don't see you.

Sometimes they do see you and just pull out anyway. Sometimes this may be a failure of speed perception. Other times though it is just that the cyclist doesn't register at some level in their brain. It would be an interesting one to do a study on.

Sometimes they see you and you do register but they expect you to stop as you are a cyclist. This doesn't tend to happen on a roundabout I must admit but it is frequent enough with merging junctions where the driver has a yield sign.

Bottom line you have to anticipate this sort of thing as a possibility and be ready to stop if necessary.

Beasty

Pleased to hear you are OK Captain. However take it easy for a couple of days just to make sure.

Any damage to the bike, and did you get her details?

Roundabouts can be deceptive - I have seen cars take off in front of me on a few occasions. I'm not making any excuse for the driver - she should have seen you, and you were on the roundabout and clearly had right of way. However I would suggest cyclists watch out for this sort of thing - cars sometimes struggle to get onto a busy roundabout, and the driver may try and anticipate a gap between vehicles, and miss the blindingly obvious cyclist in front of them

alfalad

Glad to hear your ok!

uberwolf

TimAllen wrote: »

Dirk, do you see a difference between banging on a van to alert them of your presence (and hopefully avert an accident) versus kicking a car mirror off?

stop dragging threads off topic.

Captain Havoc

blorg wrote: »

Often the driver "isn't looking", but it is not always that simple. Sometimes they are looking straight at you, but still don't see you.

Sometimes they do see you and just pull out anyway. Sometimes this may be a failure of speed perception. Other times though it is just that the cyclist doesn't register at some level in their brain. It would be an interesting one to do a study on.

Sometimes they see you and you do register but they expect you to stop as you are a cyclist. This doesn't tend to happen on a roundabout I must admit but it is frequent enough with merging junctions where the driver has a yield sign.

Bottom line you have to anticipate this sort of thing as a possibility and be ready to stop if necessary.

It's called "target fixation" the most common example is amongst skiers who see a tree, set there eyes on it but go into it anyway. The other place it's known to happen is with pilots, they see the runway but fail to slow down.

uberwolf

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It's called "target fixation" the most common example is amongst skiers who see a tree set there eyes on it but go into it anyway. The other place it's known to happen is with pilots, they see the runway but fail to slow down.

I had many practical examples of this when I started mountain biking. Solution was to focus on preferred path rather than the obstruction.

Captain Havoc

Do you have any dodgey motorists in your family? If so I have the perfect Christmas present for you:

vektarman

Glad to hear you're ok Captain Havoc, it's a frightening experience.

Beasty

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Do you have any dodgey motorists in your family? If so I have the perfect Christmas present for you:

Pleased to see your sense of humour has survived the ordeal

Alanstrainor

Glad to hear your okay. It happens an awful lot, even during the day time where a driver appears to be looking right at you and they just pull out infront. I find having a loud bell on my bike makes a huge difference. I honestly couldn't believe the difference it made after buying it.

poochiem

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It's called "target fixation" the most common example is amongst skiers who see a tree, set there eyes on it but go into it anyway. The other place it's known to happen is with pilots, they see the runway but fail to slow down.

yep - target fixation. A good example of this for cyclists is when you're tryin to squeeze between parked cars if you look at the wing mirrors in order to avoid them ..you will hit them.

good you're ok.

lee_

NippleNuts where are you getting your facts or is this a joke

" It is no coincidence that of all accidents involving a junction, female drivers account for c75% ''

(im new to boards and dont konw how to quote someone, sorry!)

Beasty

Alanstrainor wrote: »

I find having a loud bell on my bike makes a huge difference. I honestly couldn't believe the difference it made after buying it.

I find my big gob helps a lot (not sure if the driver always hears me, but it makes me feel better when I bellow out to everyone within hearing distance what a complete and utter prat the driver is (using much more colourful language though)):)

oflahero

Good man Captain H, glad all is OK. As many have pointed out before in similar cases though, some injuries might take a couple of days to develop, so take it easy on the old bones for at least a week.

Large roundabouts are a nightmare on the bike (and scooter too). Following the rules of the road for the third exit and beyond is taking your life in your hands in the right-hand lane. I find waving frantically with my left arm as I indicate off (breaking the motion camouflage) does help (a little) in avoiding being taken out at speed as I cross the left lane.

kenmc

Glad to hear you're ok, but honestly don't know how you managed to avoid putting your bike through her windscreen )or worse!) when you caught up with her. Thankfully I've not had the misfortune of being knocked down yet, but I can't imagine I'd be that forgiving if it ever happens. Fair play.

72hundred

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It's called "target fixation" the most common example is amongst skiers who see a tree, set there eyes on it but go into it anyway. The other place it's known to happen is with pilots, they see the runway but fail to slow down.

That's a very interesting topic. Have experienced it myself on occasion.

Alanstrainor

Beasty wrote: »

I find my big gob helps a lot (not sure if the driver always hears me, but it makes me feel better when I bellow out to everyone within hearing distance what a complete and utter prat the driver is (using much more colourful language though)):)

You can still shout and scream with or without a bell though. But i always found that the high pitched ding ding ding of the bell immediately means there's a bike nearby and not some mad man having an ould shout.

BostonB

Captain Havoc wrote: »

It's called "target fixation" the most common example is amongst skiers who see a tree, set there eyes on it but go into it anyway. The other place it's known to happen is with pilots, they see the runway but fail to slow down.

I thought that phrase was due to fighter pilots fixating on their target, and thus not looking for their targets buddy coming up behind them. Or alternative, following their target as he flys into the ground.

Another variation of this is in car racing where one car will follow another off the track, because they are not watching the track, just the car in front.

Another problem that also was noticed in pilots, in combat, is that the brain can get overloaded in busy situations, and starts to ignore some information.

BostonB

I think a lot of cyclists (including myself) are guilty of expecting motorists to see them at all times, whereas you might have moved into their blind spot, or be lost in the visual clutter around you, of moving traffic lights etc. Thats assuming that a driver isn't distracted by something else entirely.

Assume they can't see you. End of.

kona

Glad you are ok. On the brightside, now there is one extra driver who will ALWAYS look for a cyclist.

Also, I have kinda gone from all out aggro when hit by a car to taking it easy, when your full of adrenaline, its all too easy to boot off a wing mirror, which in doing so lets the side down, and instead of having a extra driver who will be sympathetic to cyclists, you have created another anti-cyclist. Remember your kicking off a instrument that is vital to see cyclists in. All in pretty dumb move.

kona

BostonB wrote: »

whereas you might have moved into their blind spot, or be lost in the visual clutter around you, of.

This annoys the **** out of me, gob****es who sit in your blind spot. The main cintenders for this when im driving are taxi drivers, mercedes and BMW drivers and gob****e ninjas.

Makes me wanna get out of the car and slap them for being so ****ing stupid.

BostonB

The point is blind spots exist, and vary from vehicle. Some cars have thick A pillars, which can easily hide a cyclist, even a car at the wrong angle.

BostonB

oflahero wrote: »

Good man Captain H, glad all is OK. As many have pointed out before in similar cases though, some injuries might take a couple of days to develop, so take it easy on the old bones for at least a week....

That good advice. When I got knocked off it took a few days for everything to start hurting. Took a few days for the shock and adrenaline to wear and notice things hurting. I only noticed after a week I had whiplash. Which got worse later.

doctor evil

oflahero wrote: »

breaking the motion camouflage

Would having light/reflectives on the spokes of the wheels help break this? When I am riding my mare on the mare I find hi viz/reflective boots on her legs help an awful lot (we both go out decked as christmas trees)

OP sorry to hear about your injury.

AstraMonti

Who cares about you?? Tell us how is the bike! just joking :-D
Glad you are ok man!

Surveyor11

Glad you'e ok. I'm new to cycling and that's my worst night mare. As a driver and cyclist, roundabouts are the most risky junction in my mind. Irish people just don't drive with their eyes open. My last days commute in and out had:

• A guy break a red light - at speed - coming against me on the Blanchardstown Road North. I sort of pedalled out of his way (He wasn't slowing down / giving way) but could have ended a lot worse. Is a cat eye / high vis jacket and reflective sleeves not enough?

• Pedestrian / cycling crossings (with lights) - what is it about Irish people and blocking these as soon at the light goes amber? Oh, it's amber, must push forward and park over the pedestrian crossing. Or worst, people breaking these. No, just wait you knob.

• Car cutting me up at the Power city roundabout - me going straight through, car turning left. Just wait 10 seconds until I'm out of your way, you ignorant idiot. Mind you, it was an 09 Audi A4, my Giant would make a nice dent in that.

Driving in Ireland has thought me to expect the unexpected. Red Lights / pedestrian crossings / roundabouts and the general rules of the road are all just arbitrary. try to get eye contact, many people driving in cars do not look over their shoulder (especially the right one) when maneuvering.:pac:

tunney

TimAllen wrote: »

Op - glad you're ok and mature about what was obviously an accident

Someone didn't bother their ar$e looking for other vehicles on a roundabout and this is the best you can do? If there was automatic liability for motorists you can be sure she'd check.

blorg

doctor evil wrote: »

Would having light/reflectives on the spokes of the wheels help break this? When I am riding my mare on the mare I find hi viz/reflective boots on her legs help an awful lot (we both go out decked as christmas trees)

Not sure about the spoke reflectors, I think they would generally be most useful to prevent T-boning and to be honest it might be a bit late by the time you are in such a position that they would be visible.

However as to moving reflectors I have read that pedal reflectors are generally considered to be very effective and indeed I've seen these myself before someone's light which wasn't too bright. I don't have them myself as use clipless pedals but I do have reflector strips on my shoes/overshoes which are similarly effective (I have seen someone else with the same ones on a dark road from a car, and he was very noticable.) Not necessarily so useful in this situation though.

BryanL

At all times you should ride like your invisible to motorists.
Lights,reflectors etc. can almost give a false confidence to riders, your are in the right all you have to do is obey the laws and you'll be fine. WRONG

Remeber cars hit cars,buses and lorries "they never saw":eek: as a cyclist you have to make sure they see you or else ride like the can't. get to the very front at red lights or stay at the back, don't ride right in by the kerb, stay out so it's safe for yourself, your not going to slide on wet msanhole covers, yellow lines or hit as many pot holes.

At a round about take up a lane! A lot of drivers are jockeying for lanes on round abouts, meekly riding on the left is not the way to go

Don't ride to blend in or to be helpful to drivers, ride so it's safe for yourself and so they notice. If your not getting called a W*nker or shouted at a few times a week your being too defencive.

droidus

Back when I cycled everywhere I had nearly the exact same experience.

It was about 11 or 12 years ago and I was cycling home to Finglas from Donaghmeade - south through Ballymun at about 11am on a Saturday. I went through the roundabout at a reasonable speed as there was no traffic to yield to, and as I passed the first exit in the middle of the outside lane I stuck out my arm to indicate that I was proceeding straight through - spying a small white van approaching the second entrance.

To my horror I saw that the van had not stopped and was driving straight onto the roundabout. I frantically waved my arm and tried to dodge into the inside lane, but I just couldn't get out of the way. As the van got closer I ended up staring directly into the drivers eyes (a youngish woman) as she rammed me. I was thrown across the road and ended up on the guardrails that surrounded the centre of the roundabout, one arm hanging down over the 20 ft drop below.

Luckily I wasnt too badly hurt. A lot of bruises and a sprained wrist, though if Id landed on my head at that speed I probably wouldn't be here now. The driver was a bit stunned but she got out and started helping me pick up my bike and the contents of my bag. The first thing i said to her was 'I signalled, why didnt you stop', to which she had no response.

Anyway, we bundled all the stuff into her van and she drove me home. On the way back I was pretty out of it with shock and I started getting weird flashing in my vision. She gave me a £50 note and bundled me out shortly afterwards, and I was too ****ed to argue. Looking back on it I think she took advantage of the fact that I was a teenager and didn't really know how to act in an accident situation. I should've waited for an ambulance and taken her to the cleaners.

God knows how many cyclists she's knocked down since then.

Captain Havoc

@droidus, that's spot on what happened me but with less impact, I didn't go flying. Yeah, there was that moment of disbelief when I saw the driver hadn't stopped.

Thanks for all the "glad you're OKs" and any more that come. Sore elbow this morning and knee. I played football last night so I'm not so bad, but during the game my head wasn't with it. In retrospect I should have taken a photo of her reg plate and sent her bill for the clothing I have to replace, saw dark skies this morning and I was cursing the "driver". I definately wouldn't persue any further claims as I deplore the sueing culture that goes on, making someone else suffer won't make me feel any better and I don't really need the money. She's a clown and depriving her of a few quid won't stop her from being a clown.

bealbocht

Captain Havoc wrote: »

I definately wouldn't persue any further claims as I deplore the sueing culture that goes on, making someone else suffer won't make me feel any better and I don't really need the money. She's a clown and depriving her of a few quid won't stop her from being a clown.

I mostly agree with you here, but was just thinking, if it is a "road traffic accident", should'nt the police be called (or at what point should they be called)
Even if you dont sue, there might be a few points on the licence for the driver, (which would help get the clown off the road)

Bunnyhopper

Some related thoughts from Steve Worland here.

droidus

Thanks for all the "glad you're OKs" and any more that come. Sore elbow this morning and knee. I played football last night so I'm not so bad, but during the game my head wasn't with it. In retrospect I should have taken a photo of her reg plate and sent her bill for the clothing I have to replace, saw dark skies this morning and I was cursing the "driver". I definately wouldn't persue any further claims as I deplore the sueing culture that goes on, making someone else suffer won't make me feel any better and I don't really need the money. She's a clown and depriving her of a few quid won't stop her from being a clown.

That's very charitable of you.

Once you've been hit its hard to get rid of the Fear. Take it easy when you get back on you're bike but try not to get too defensive on the road. The important thing is to not let it affect your cycling too much. That was one of a string of accidents I had, the last of which (driver turning left and cutting me off, me going over handlebars and nearly breaking my collarbone as he drove into the distance) basically put me off commuting by bike for years.