Cycling "riskier" than driving

adodsk

according to this...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8392323.stm

Captain Havoc

In an age where 57% of Irish adults are overweight, 18% of which are obese. This leads to diseases which not all but the majority of which would be linked to being overweight, such the 5% of the population which are diabetic and that over 40% of all deaths are as a result of cardiovascualr disease 80% of which could be avoided if risk factors were eliminated. Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of premature death in this country. 30% of government expenditure is on health. It's belived that 2,000 deaths a year are related to obesity. €4 billion per year is spent on lifestyle related illness. It's recommended that 30 minutes of physical activity for five days a week is enough to reamain healthy and would reduce the risk of diabetes by 58% and 70% in over 60s, 20% of Irish adults take no physical excersise. Prevention is better than cure!

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0610/D.0610.200511220009.html

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0188/S.0188.200802280007.html... See More

http://www.ipha.ie/GetAttachment.aspx?id=f1c931ed-a45b-4ed0-b47a-41a3c6c0d974

Stark

If people drove the way half those people in the video were cycling, they wouldn't last long either. I generally take comfort in the fact that the POBs aren't being killed in their scores.

Doctor Bob

adodsk wrote: »

according to this...http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8392323.stm

More here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/03/cycling-roads-accidents-hospital-admissions

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cyclists-three-times-more-likely-to-die-on-uk-roads-than-abroad-1833150.html

Lumen

Canis Lupus

Can't listen to the report just yet but more cyclists on the roads means more idiots on the roads.

I always bang on about the fact that you have to take a test to get on the main road and drive a car or drive a motorbike but any old fool who hasn't been on a bike since they were 5 can hop on a bike and "cycle" off into heavy traffic.

Cycling is only dangerous if you cycle like an idiot. It's very very very rare on my daily commute in London to be put at risk by other drivers on the road. Any time I have a whoopsie it's because I took my mind off the task at hand.

Chips Lovell

Stark wrote: »

If people drove the way half those people in the video were cycling, they wouldn't last long either. I generally take comfort in the fact that the POBs aren't being killed in their scores.

Tend to agree. Going by the level of competence on display in Dublin, I'm surprised more people aren't killed.

Raam

The other day I had one clown on a bike ride straight through red lights while they were green for me. Am I wrong to ride straight at him and force him to give way? Didn't work as it happened, he just plodded on his merry way.

adodsk

one of these fitted to the bike might work

Caroline_ie

Cycling into town on the Quays the other day, I saw an orange light, I slowed down and stopped, the bus behind me didn't ... and was going quite fast! Got so scared.
I am not sure the report is anything we didn't know, and for sure, if my mother saw it, she'd tell me to stay the hell out of the ... outside world altogether.

Bunnyhopper

Captain Havoc wrote: »

In an age where 57% of Irish adults are overweight, 18% of which are obese. This leads to diseases which not all but the majority of which would be linked to being overweight, such the 5% of the population which are diabetic and that over 40% of all deaths are as a result of cardiovascualr disease 80% of which could be avoided if risk factors were eliminated. Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of premature death in this country. 30% of government expenditure is on health. It's belived that 2,000 deaths a year are related to obesity. €4 billion per year is spent on lifestyle related illness. It's recommended that 30 minutes of physical activity for five days a week is enough to reamain healthy and would reduce the risk of diabetes by 58% and 70% in over 60s, 20% of Irish adults take no physical excersise. Prevention is better than cure!

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0610/D.0610.200511220009.html

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/S/0188/S.0188.200802280007.html... See More

http://www.ipha.ie/GetAttachment.aspx?id=f1c931ed-a45b-4ed0-b47a-41a3c6c0d974

Plus there are more general health benefits from reduced noise pollution and exhaust emissions levels, particularly in urban areas.

bop1977

In that clip there were only 2 of the cyclist wearing high vis clothing and maybe one or two more with helmets on. Also I didn’t notice any lights on any of the bikes.

Its up to the cyclist to make himself/herself seen to the motorist, with such a small profile on the road these items are essential but judging by that clip and what I see on the streets of Dublin every day cyclist don’t seem to care if they are seen or not until they get hit or nearly hit.

As a motorist I say stop blaming the motorist and start taking responsibility for your safety on the roads. remember the old saying be safe, be seen.

Lumen

I fear I may have used up my full quota of exploding head gifs too early in this thread....

Stark

bop1977 wrote: »

In that clip there were only 2 of the cyclist wearing high vis clothing and maybe one or two more with helmets on. Also I didn’t notice any lights on any of the bikes.

There was a big yellow object hovering in the blue sky that was lighting them all up though.

RedPlanet

bop1977 wrote: »

In that clip there were only 2 of the cyclist wearing high vis clothing and maybe one or two more with helmets on. Also I didn’t notice any lights on any of the bikes.

Its up to the cyclist to make himself/herself seen to the motorist, with such a small profile on the road these items are essential but judging by that clip and what I see on the streets of Dublin every day cyclist don’t seem to care if they are seen or not until they get hit or nearly hit.

As a motorist I say stop blaming the motorist and start taking responsibility for your safety on the roads. remember the old saying be safe, be seen.

The clip didn't contain any night-time cycling so high-vis and lights are not mandatory.
It's up to the motorist to be attentative and drive with due care for other road users.

concussion

Christ above there was some terrible cycling there. Mangled bike -> result of going up the inside/stopping alongside a left-turning HGV. That should be shown to every cyclist out there as a prime example of what not to do. As for the woman who turned in front of the bus - idiocy of the highest order.

bop1977 wrote: »

In that clip there were only 2 of the cyclist wearing high vis clothing and maybe one or two more with helmets on.

I didn't see ANY car-drivers with helmets.

Chips Lovell

bop1977 wrote: »

Its up to the cyclist to make himself/herself seen to the motorist.

I'm sorry, but no. That clip was filmed during the day. It's up to the motorist to drive with due care and attention.

bop1977

Stark wrote: »

There was a big yellow object hovering in the blue sky that was lighting them all up though.

if this big yellow thing was so bright how did the bike end up under the lorry at lunch time? (right at the start of the clip)

Chips Lovell

bop1977 wrote: »

if this big yellow thing was so bright how did the bike end up under the lorry at lunch time? (right at the start of the clip)

It doesn't matter if you're decked out with so much day-glo that you're radioactive. If you're in a truck's blind spot, you won't be seen.

bop1977

el tonto wrote: »

I'm sorry, but no. That clip was filmed during the day. It's up to the motorist to drive with due care and attention.

and what about the kamikazi cyclists driving the wrong way down streets and the idiot woman who swevered in front of the oncoming bus to take the right hand turn forcing the bus driver to slam on his/her brakes? where is the due care and attention there? she was also not wear and high vis clothing/helmet. also where is the due care and attention to the line of bikes breaking the red light towards the end of the clip.

bop1977

concussion wrote: »

I didn't see ANY car-drivers with helmets.

:rolleyes:

Captain Havoc

bop1977 wrote: »

and what about the kamikazi cyclists driving the wrong way down streets and the idiot woman who swevered in front of the oncoming bus to take the right hand turn forcing the bus driver to slam on his/her brakes? where is the due care and attention there? she was also not wear and high vis clothing/helmet. also where is the due care and attention to the line of bikes breaking the red light towards the end of the clip.

Darwin will take care of these

Chips Lovell

bop1977 wrote: »

and what about the kamikazi cyclists driving the wrong way down streets and the idiot woman who swevered in front of the oncoming bus to take the right hand turn forcing the bus driver to slam on his/her brakes? where is the due care and attention there? she was also not wear and high vis clothing/helmet. also where is the due care and attention to the line of bikes breaking the red light towards the end of the clip.

What about them? I already mentioned that the level of bad cycling on display in Dublin at least means I'm surprised more people aren't killed. But just because some ride without due care and attention doesn't mean motorists can abdicate from their responsibilities.

concussion

bop1977 wrote: »

and what about the kamikazi cyclists driving the wrong way down streets and the idiot woman who swevered in front of the oncoming bus to take the right hand turn forcing the bus driver to slam on his/her brakes? where is the due care and attention there? she was also not wear and high vis clothing/helmet. also where is the due care and attention to the line of bikes breaking the red light towards the end of the clip.

She swerved in front - he slammed on the brakes. Seems to me that he saw here there, why exactly does she need a hi-viz jacket?

i71jskz5xu42pb

Canis Lupus wrote: »

I always bang on about the fact that you have to take a test to get on the main road and drive a car or drive a motorbike but any old fool who hasn't been on a bike since they were 5 can hop on a bike and "cycle" off into heavy traffic.

I thought the Motors forum were bad enough with way some of them go on like driving a car is some sort of complicated skill up there with flying air planes and brain surgery. I didn't expect to see that attitude here.

There's a reason the phrase "it's like riding a bike" exists; riding a bike is very very easy. Riding a bike in traffic is also very very easy provided you apply the smallest amount of common sense.

Spiritoftheseventies

The main problem is the planning. In Amsterdam you can't walk on the paths without hearing a bell in your ears telling you to get out of their way (cyle paths are on the paths) its a very cycle friendly city and traffic is never choc-a-bloc. Put simply. More cycle paths less danger

adodsk

RedPlanet wrote: »

The clip didn't contain any night-time cycling so high-vis and lights are not mandatory.
It's up to the motorist to be attentative and drive with due care for other road users.

There is a misconception that hi-viz is strictly for night time usage. The scothbrite reflective strips are there to reflect lights at night - the yellow/orange material is there to attract daytime attention. Builders/engineers et al have to wear them on site for safety reasons at all times. Whilst I wouldn't say that they should be made mandatory (heaven forbid) it is up to the individual to take responsibility. For the commuting cyclist it makes sense to be more visible to all other road users.

As for the assertion that it is up to motorist to drive with care and attention, whilst this is undoubtedly true, there is no harm in giving them a few extra hints to your position. Belt and braces appoach and all that.

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes do think Cyclists could make themselves a bit brighter. Some cycle all in black with just red reflecter light at the back.

Stark

Kimberly Rough Windstorm wrote: »

I thought the Motors forum were bad enough with way some of them go on like driving a car is some sort of complicated skill up there with flying air planes and brain surgery. I didn't expect to see that attitude here.

I used to think being able to see large moving objects in broad daylight was the most basic of human aptitude. But apparently things need to be wrapped in builders' vests for the great unwashed to see them. Driving a car may as well be as complicated as brain surgery for these people.

concussion

I vote we put reflective strips and fluorescent paint on ALL road vehicles. (This is to include horses if they are pulling traps.)

Captain Havoc

A hi-viz bib don't cost a lot, I don't see what harm it is to throw one on.

Spiritoftheseventies

concussion wrote: »

She swerved in front - he slammed on the brakes. Seems to me that he saw here there, why exactly does she need a hi-viz jacket?

maybe because it would give the bus driver a bit more time to react next time round. Wonder what that woman is doing cycling up a one way street thinks the bus driver instead of WTF!

Lumen

Captain Havoc wrote: »

A hi-viz bib don't cost a lot, I don't see what harm it is to throw one on.

It looks dorky.

Captain Havoc

Lumen wrote: »

It looks dorky.

Better than looking dead!

Spiritoftheseventies

Lumen wrote: »

It looks dorky.

Would you rather be a live dork or a dead hipster

Lumen

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Better than looking dead!

Indeed, if there was a correlation.

Lumen

bayviewclose wrote: »

Would you rather be a live dork or a dead hipster

Is there a third option?

petethedrummer

bayviewclose wrote: »

maybe because it would give the bus driver a bit more time to react next time round. Wonder what that woman is doing cycling up a one way street thinks the bus driver instead of WTF!

Well maybe if the bus was painted in luminous yellow with a scotchlite stripe she might have seen it. You can't hold her responsible if the bus company doesn't want to make their buses visible.

I still think we should paint the entire world luminous yellow and wrap it in scotchlite.

Chips Lovell

People are free to wear what they want, but what I've a problem with is the implication that if you don't deck yourself out in high-viz clothing it's somehow your responsibility if you get hit.

Lumen

Look, how, how, how is it possible for the most unambiguous video ever posted to ferment an argument?

Show eleventy million cyclists that video, and you'll get eleventy million responses the same. The video was full of suicidal morons. Being a suicidal moron is moronic and suidical. End of analysis.

What the hell has hi-vis and helmets got to do with anything?

Spiritoftheseventies

petethedrummer wrote: »

Well maybe if the bus was painted in luminous yellow with a scotchlite stripe she might have seen it. You can't hold her responsible if the bus company doesn't want to make their buses visible.

I still think we should paint the entire world luminous yellow and wrap it in scotchlite.

I think we should just re-programme all cyclists via electro therapy to think along the same line as motorists when using the roads.

concussion

bayviewclose wrote: »

maybe because it would give the bus driver a bit more time to react next time round. Wonder what that woman is doing cycling up a one way street thinks the bus driver instead of WTF!

He saw her and braked. If we extend your argument of doing everything possible to be seen we would wear emergency-service style lights on our heads so the driver could have been alerted when she was 500 metres away.

For the record, while I don't wear a hi-viz jacket, I do wear a bright red jacket with reflective trim. My Crud-Catcher is bright red with Scotchlite stickers on it and my back pack has a fluorescent strip and flashing red light on it....

HOWEVER

I think cycling predictably and observing the rules of the road is much more important than being highly visible (during the day). Nearly all the cycling shown in that video was absolutely terrible and I wouldn't be surprised if they were involved in accidents as a result of their ignorance/brazen flouting of the ROTR.

Spiritoftheseventies

End of the day cyclists repeatedly take short cuts. If they want to be treated seriously as road users than they must comply with the rules of the road.

Stark

bayviewclose wrote: »

End of the day cyclists repeatedly take short cuts. If they want to be treated seriously as road users than they must comply with the rules of the road.

What have the rules of the road got to do with wearing hi-viz vests or lights during the day? Or even helmets for that matter (cycling helmets are a feature of habit rather than law).

concussion

bayviewclose wrote: »

I think we should just re-programme all cyclists via electro therapy to think along the same line as motorists when using the roads.

What, so cyclists will have to speed, not use indicators, fail to understand roundabouts, leave the bike in the middle of the road while we pop into the shop, park in handicapped spaces, stop in yellow grids, stop in bus lanes, stop in pedestrian crossings, etc etc ???

Not saying a lot of cyclist are much better, but a hell of a lot of motorists don't have much regard for the ROTR either.

Captain Havoc

I think there are things we can do to reduce the risk of accident. Wearing hi-viz is one of these. If I'm cycling at night I'll always be in hi-viz and if during the day something red, blue or another colour that is easily seen.

Lumen, you're right, the cycling in the clip was appauling. They went to make a point, they proved that point by showing clips of a bike under a truck (on the blind-side) and a woman swerving out in front of a bus. In our good sense we know that this type of suicidal cycling is moronic.

i71jskz5xu42pb

bayviewclose wrote: »

End of the day cyclists repeatedly take short cuts. If they want to be treated seriously as road users than they must comply with the rules of the road.

This is exactly the reason I don't take pedestrians seriously as road users. Bloody jaywalkers have what's coming to them.....

Yours,
Cptn Generalisation.

Lumen

bayviewclose wrote: »

End of the day cyclists repeatedly take short cuts. If they want to be treated seriously as road users than they must comply with the rules of the road.

With respect, this sort of generalisation makes no sense.

On my daily commute I see cars breaking red lights at every single junction. This does not mean that I treat motorists with disrespect.

Captain Havoc

bayviewclose wrote: »

End of the day cyclists repeatedly take short cuts. If they want to be treated seriously as road users than they must comply with the rules of the road.

I wish to be excluded from that comment.

petethedrummer

So this report suggests cycling is more dangours than driving.

So just how dangerous in absolute terms? On a chart from Knitting to Lion Taming please.

These hospital admissions...how serious are the injuries?

All I know is with this sort of reporting the ladies will think I'm a real devil-may-care type just for cycling to work. More of this please.

Stark

Captain Havoc wrote: »

If I'm cycling at night I'll always be in hi-viz and if during the day something red, blue or another colour that is easily seen.