Enough is enough Public & Private Sector Unite For Once!

NOGMaxpower

Which sector you work in doesn't matter at this stage, dont fall foul to the governments attempts to divide the nation backed by the media.

Ireland has had a long tradition of standing together as one which is the basis of our Republic. Which at one point I was proud to be a part of. We have lost sight of ourselves over the past 15 years. We have let out governement and our Unions destroy our self worth and our national identity. We are all fighting eachother for the same reasons and the same end goals. STOP THIS NOW AND UNITE.

The time has come for us all to congregate upon the GPO, to stand as one and to have one voice that serves the common good of all our people. Let us not foget those who did the same in the past, Pearse, Connolly etc If it wasn't for these brave souls we would never have experienced 1st hand the greatest republic on earth.

Can we all put out differences aside and stand as one together? To show our utter disgust at our governments failing and to force real economic change. If at the very least to show the EU that we the people of Ireland are still here, still a united people and that our government does not represent us in the light that we deserve!

Is this possible? I for one would turn up and I know many of my friends/colleagues would too.

nietzy

i would show up

NOGMaxpower

lest we forget our origins:

POBLACHT NA H EIREANN
___________________________
THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT
OF THE
IRISH REPUBLIC
TO THE PEOPLE OF IRELAND

IRISHMEN AND IRISHWOMEN: In the name of God and of the dead generations from which she receives her old tradition of nationhood, Ireland, through us, summons her children to her flag and strikes for her freedom.

Having organised and trained her manhood through her secret revolutionary organisation, the Irish Republican Brotherhood, and through her open military organisations, the Irish Volunteers and the Irish Citizen Army, having patiently perfected her discipline, having resolutely waited for the right moment to reveal itself, she now seizes that moment, and, supported by her exiled children in America and by gallant allies in Europe, but relying in the first on her own strength, she strikes in full confidence of victory.

We declare the right of the people of Ireland to the ownership of Ireland, and to the unfettered control of Irish destinies, to be sovereign and indefeasible. The long usurpation of that right by a foreign people and government has not extinguished the right, nor can it ever be extinguished except by the destruction of the Irish people. In every generation the Irish people have asserted their right to national freedom and sovereignty; six times during the last three hundred years they have asserted it to arms. Standing on that fundamental right and again asserting it in arms in the face of the world, we hereby proclaim the Irish Republic as a Sovereign Independent State, and we pledge our lives and the lives of our comrades-in-arms to the cause of its freedom, of its welfare, and of its exaltation among the nations.

The Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past.

Until our arms have brought the opportune moment for the establishment of a permanent National, representative of the whole people of Ireland and elected by the suffrages of all her men and women, the Provisional Government, hereby constituted, will administer the civil and military affairs of the Republic in trust for the people.

We place the cause of the Irish Republic under the protection of the Most High God. Whose blessing we invoke upon our arms, and we pray that no one who serves that cause will dishonour it by cowardice, in humanity, or rapine. In this supreme hour the Irish nation must, by its valour and discipline and by the readiness of its children to sacrifice themselves for the common good, prove itself worthy of the august destiny to which it is called.

NOGMaxpower

Its our god given right under our constitution:

1° The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:
CONSTITUTION OF IRELAND – BUNREACHT NA hÉIREANN
i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.
The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.
The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law.
ii. The right of the citizens to assemble peaceably and without arms.
Provision may be made by law to prevent or control meetings which are determined in accordance with law to be calculated to cause a breach of the peace or to be a danger or nuisance to the general public and to prevent or control meetings in the vicinity of either House of the Oireachtas.
iii. The right of the citizens to form associations and unions.
Laws, however, may be enacted for the regulation and control in the public interest of the exercise of the foregoing right.

Fuhrer

But the governments failure to force economic change is because of the public sector blocking them at every attempt.




Why would someone protest something that they have helped cause?

OldJay

Fuhrer wrote: »

Why would someone protest something that they have helped cause?

Lovely delivery . . .

NOGMaxpower

Fuhrer wrote: »

But the governments failure to force economic change is because of the public sector blocking them at every attempt.




Why would someone protest something that they have helped cause?

This is not the place to air previous issues. the purpose of this post is to gauge the support of unity and the chance to put aside our issues and unite as one people with one voice. The government is at fault #1 issue, the rest of the public vs private is secondary and only serves to support the failed government.

But hey i guess there's tons of people here who'd rather be at eachothers throats instead of standing together. I did say the Unions were at fault too.

Fuhrer

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

This is not the place to air previous issues. the purpose of this post is to gauge the support of unity and the chance to put aside our issues and unite as one people with one voice. The government is at fault #1 issue, the rest of the public vs private is secondary and only serves to support the failed government.

But hey i guess there's tons of people here who'd rather be at eachothers throats instead of standing together. I did say the Unions were at fault too.

Well, yes. The point of my post was that we cant have unity because the public sector is putting an unreasonable burden on everyone else.

RedPlanet

Let us not foget those who did the same in the past, Pearse, Connolly etc If it wasn't for these brave souls we would never have experienced 1st hand the greatest republic on earth.

:rolleyes:

It's a banana republic ffs.

NOGMaxpower

Fuhrer wrote: »

Well, yes. The point of my post was that we cant have unity because the public sector is putting an unreasonable burden on everyone else.

again you're being devisive, the Unions are the fuel behind the blocking not the general people. most in the public sector accept they need to take wage cuts. its the Unions that are causing the blocks.

again this post is not about blame or igniting the same arguments that are rife on the boards.ie its about putting this antics to one side for one day.

NOGMaxpower

RedPlanet wrote: »

:rolleyes:

It's a banana republic ffs.

i think you dont know the meaning of a banana republic, sure we can draw similarities given the state of our current government but our constitution is any but a banana republic.

Yet another post that serves no purpose but to divide our peoples.

Fuhrer

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

again you're being devisive, the Unions are the fuel behind the blocking not the general people. most in the public sector accept they need to take wage cuts. its the Unions that are causing the blocks.

again this post is not about blame or igniting the same arguments that are rife on the boards.ie its about putting this antics to one side for one day.

Who do you think Unions are?


They are some Malevolent shadowy figures who rise from darkness, they're the representatives of the Public sector, their acts represent the wishes of the public sector.

NOGMaxpower

perhaps you should just answer the question that was originally posted instead of continuing your own arguments from other posts.

NOGMaxpower

Fuhrer wrote: »

Who do you think Unions are?


They are some Malevolent shadowy figures who rise from darkness, they're the representatives of the Public sector, their acts represent the wishes of the public sector.

erm not all members of unions are in the public sector lol.

again try to stick on topic.

Liam Byrne

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

most in the public sector accept they need to take wage cuts. its the Unions that are causing the blocks.

If this is indeed true, then let the "most" threaten to leave the union! The inflexible fat-cats at the top wouldn't be long caving in if the subscriptions took a nose-dive!

That said, we do need to stop the "divide-and-conquer" approach that FF are proposing.

I'm currently on about 60% of the wages that I was - working less, but that doesn't help when the bills come in, and I have a friend who is now on a one-day week.

Those are the facts of life in the private sector.

RedPlanet

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

i think you dont know the meaning of a banana republic, sure we can draw similarities given the state of our current government but our constitution is any but a banana republic.

Features of a Banana Republic

A collusion between the overweening state and certain favored monopolistic concerns, whereby the profits can be privatized and the debts socialized.

Devalued paper currency in the international community.
Ok we don't have this currently, but only because the EU won't let us.

Kleptocracy -- those in positions of influence use their time in office to maximize their own gains, always ensuring that any shortfall is made up by those unfortunates whose daily life involves earning money rather than making it.

There must be no principle of accountability within the government so that the political corruption by which the Banana Republic operates is left unchecked. The members of the national legislature will be (a) largely for sale and (b) consulted only for ceremonial and rubber-stamp purposes some time after all the truly important decisions have already been made elsewhere.

"a money class fleeces the banking system while the very trunk of the national tree is permitted to rot and crash" -- Christopher Hitchens [9]

mahamageehad

so revolution then yes??

Woo-hoo!!!

Fuhrer

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

perhaps you should just answer the question that was originally posted instead of continuing your own arguments from other posts.

Which question?

"Can we all put out differences aside and stand as one together? To show our utter disgust at our governments failing and to force real economic change."

That one?


No, I answered that. We cant stand together until everyone is willing to make the sacrifices neccesary for meaningful economic change.

Given that a significant portion of people threatened to shut the country down if they should have to endure a pay cut.



But good luck with the uniting people thing, a good sentiment in theory.

woodseb

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Ireland has had a long tradition of standing together as one which is the basis of our Republic. .

funny, i thought the very foundation of this state divided opinions down the middle;)

Fuhrer

woodseb wrote: »

funny, i thought the very foundation of this state divided opinions down the middle;)

and divided the country...

b12mearse

I'm with you. I was in Dublin yesterday and was shocked at the amount of foreigners working in the cities shops and restaurants.
Its time to send them home!
There are too many people on the doel and we continue to employ these people in our country.

oscarBravo

b12mearse wrote: »

I'm with you. I was in Dublin yesterday and was shocked at the amount of foreigners working in the cities shops and restaurants.
Its time to send them home!
There are too many people on the doel and we continue to employ these people in our country.

In case anyone else was tempted to turn this thread into a xenophobic rantfest - don't even think about it.

NOGMaxpower

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If this is indeed true, then let the "most" threaten to leave the union! The inflexible fat-cats at the top wouldn't be long caving in if the subscriptions took a nose-dive!

That said, we do need to stop the "divide-and-conquer" approach that FF are proposing.

I'm currently on about 60% of the wages that I was - working less, but that doesn't help when the bills come in, and I have a friend who is now on a one-day week.

Those are the facts of life in the private sector.

I am in the exact same position as you throw my partner who lost her job too and massive bills life is kinda bleek.

but still would you turn up?

NOGMaxpower

b12mearse wrote: »

I'm with you. I was in Dublin yesterday and was shocked at the amount of foreigners working in the cities shops and restaurants.
Its time to send them home!
There are too many people on the doel and we continue to employ these people in our country.

erm eh not really the point dude. Personally i am happy with the diversity immigration has given us. they contribute to the economy like any other worker.

@ Banana republic, i did say elements are there but the foundation of our republic is no where near the meaning of the term.

Rb

k, meet you there at 3? I'll be the guy with the balaclava.

irish_bob

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

again you're being devisive, the Unions are the fuel behind the blocking not the general people. most in the public sector accept they need to take wage cuts. its the Unions that are causing the blocks.

again this post is not about blame or igniting the same arguments that are rife on the boards.ie its about putting this antics to one side for one day.

im confused , you claim the unions are the only ones opposing pay cuts , i thought the unions merley represent their members views , didnt the overwhelming majority of public sector workers vote in favour of strikes , wasnt the whole purpose of the strikes to try and force the goverment to row back on proposed public sector pay cuts

i for one want nothing to do with this new found sense of unity , untill i see evidence that the public sector wants anything other than to see thier boom time wages maintained in a time of rescession , i call HOLLOW bull**** on this whole call to unity

dvpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

The time has come for us all to congregate upon the GPO, to stand as one and to have one voice that serves the common good of all our people.

But what would this one voice be saying?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Can we all put out differences aside and stand as one together?

No. Put out differences aside. Does this mean accept the status quo?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

To show our utter disgust at our governments failing and to force real economic change.

What shape would this 'real economic change' take?

NOGMaxpower

dvpower wrote: »

But what would this one voice be saying?


No. Put out differences aside. Does this mean accept the status quo?


What shape would this 'real economic change' take?

nice...

One voice: That our government has failed us, that they need to stand down, that we the people of Ireland will no longer tollerate corruption, these are my opinions. usually i would a protest of this nature would be a stand not really a dedicated message at that point. you'd probably find someone or some ones would stand up and start shouting. at this point a mandate of sorts would form. but lets be honest we all have the same concerns at some level.

Status quo: No acceptance long term but for one day stand unite as the workers of Ireland to put a shock wave through the government.

Economic change: No to corruption, no to bail outs to banks and developers, yes to equality and social justice.

again these are all my own opinions. there is no plan or mandate in place, however i was attempting to see if those on boards.ie were intested in either continuing the arguments of Private v's Public or protesting as one just for one day. Preferably on a Saturday so those of us in the private sector aren't at risk of losing the jobs.

dvpower

One voice:
That our government has failed us. OK
that they need to stand down. That's most FF and Green voters excluded.
that we the people of Ireland will no longer tollerate corruption. Yes we will. That's very easy to say, but then we will go an reelect corrupt politicians again and again.


Economic change:
No to corruption: see above
no to bail outs to banks and developers. Does that mean No to NAMA and any other form of Bank recapitalisation? That's another big wedge of the population excluded.
yes to equality and social justice. What does this even mean?

there is no plan or mandate in place, however i was attempting to see if those on boards.ie were intested in either continuing the arguments of Private v's Public or protesting as one just for one day.
I for one, have no interest in protesting for the sake of protesting. But there are plenty of SWP types that are.

NOGMaxpower

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

The real point is showing the country that we're all one as workers and we all want equality and justice.

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

Would you attend such an event yes or no. perhaps a poll would've been easier than opening up a can of worms lol

oscarBravo

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

The real point is showing the country that we're all one as workers and we all want equality and justice.

Unfortunately, we have widely divergent opinions on what, exactly, constitutes "equality and justice".

Would you attend such an event yes or no.

Me? No.

Shea O'Meara

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Are you Bertie?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously, people like you are the problem...if you are disenchanted with them, or simply concerned for the common good, please please stop voting for Fianna Fail.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

Would you attend such an event yes or no.

No.

shoegirl

Much as I agree with the sentiment of not dividing public/private sector workers, lets not forget these gems:

There is no legal obligation on an employer to negotiate with a union on behalf of an employee member, unless previously agreed. This does not prevent a dispute about trade union recognition from being a lawful dispute.

See this
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1999/03/feature/ie9903135f.htm

"Employers, on the other hand, can be content that they have successfully seen off a statutory union recognition procedure. American high-technology companies, in particular, will be pleased that a voluntary code has been adopted and that their predominantly non-union status will remain unchallenged."

"the benefits of union representation may still accrue to employees, but without any compulsion on employers to concede union recognition."

"There is no legal right in Ireland for trade unions to be recognised for collective bargaining purposes, or to be consulted, other than under the Protection of Employment Act 1977, which provides that in the case of collective redundancies (which is defined in the Act) the employer must consult with the representatives of the employees "with a view to reaching an agreement"." [PS this is interpreted as individuals acting on behalf of colleagues]

"Multinationals are believed to have made it known that any revision to the current voluntary status of union recognition under Irish law and practice would imperil existing foreign direct investment and put future expansion in Ireland in serious jeopardy. The development agencies and government departments operating in the industrial relations field take these risks very seriously indeed, as does the Government."

"EMPLOYERS’ GROUP Ibec has warned that any move by the Government towards a system of mandatory trade union recognition would be unconstitutional and cost Ireland jobs."

When YOUR public sector union quangoes start a meaningful fight to put an end the two tier system, where Ireland is unique in Europe at giving employers the right to deny collective bargaining to workers, I will then consider supporting YOUR narrow little self interest groups that masquerade as trade unions.

You left us behind years ago in Partnership2000, how dare you look for our support now!

jmayo

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

...
Ireland has had a long tradition of standing together as one which is the basis of our Republic. Which at one point I was proud to be a part of. We have lost sight of ourselves over the past 15 years. We have let out governement and our Unions destroy our self worth and our national identity. We are all fighting eachother for the same reasons and the same end goals. STOP THIS NOW AND UNITE.

Bull rose tinted glasses stuff.
Anytime in our history when we had a revolution there were always plenty who looked after no.1 i.e. themselves and thus it was only with the advent of the likes of Collins who made sure that the revolters were immune from the usual greedy self interested ones.

In case you didn't know Pearse and Connolly were not supported by the vast majority of people, well at least not while they were alive. :rolleyes:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

The time has come for us all to congregate upon the GPO, to stand as one and to have one voice that serves the common good of all our people. Let us not foget those who did the same in the past, Pearse, Connolly etc If it wasn't for these brave souls we would never have experienced 1st hand the greatest republic on earth.

Greatest republic ?
Don't make us laugh.

A republic where for years our young, politically unconnected and poor had to emigrate to foreign parts to find a decent living and send home money to raise the rest of their family at home.

A republic where the catholic church ruled, much as the protestant unionists had predicted.
A republic where for 60 odd years children were imprisoned in industrial schools, where they were raped and torturted by members of the catholic church, all the while the state condoned it by their tacit approval and failure to do anything, even when informed of the abuses.

This would be the republic where the government allowed the church walk away from it's responsibilities regarding the abuse they carried out on the innocent children in their care.
This would be the republic where the police force often went to the church when allegations were made about it's priests.

Ps I know it only offically became a republic in 1949 and thus the abuse was only carried out for parts of it's term within the republic.

This would be republic where one of our prime ministers was a theif accepting gifts from well connected rich businessmen, one of the highest ranking government ministers was proven to be in receipt of property for corrupt favours, where planning was hijacked to make rich developers richer.
Arepublic where the minister of finance didn't have a bank acocunt and claimed the wads of cash in his office were due to being lucky on the nags.

This would be the republic where young girls, who had been abused and raped, were forbidden from travelling to the UK becuase their church run country were too backward to allow them abort the spawn of their rapists.

This would be country where no one is responsible for anything, where a health service does nothing about the needless deaths becuase of misdiagnosis of cancer, where the old are left to die of dehydration and bedsores in nursing homes setup to make connnected developers and businessmen even richer.
This would be the country where a surgeon was allowed operate in a hospital continually needlessly removing the most precious thing a woman has, her womb.
This would be the republic where innocent children were killed by their father becuase the social services don't do weekends. :mad:
This would be a country where our Haemophilia suffereres were given death sentences by the state blood board.
Yet again did anyone ever pay for it, oh yes the innocent victims did.

FFS people who have your opinion about how special we are should take their heads out of their ars** and see what the country is really like.

b12mearse wrote: »

I'm with you. I was in Dublin yesterday and was shocked at the amount of foreigners working in the cities shops and restaurants.
Its time to send them home!
There are too many people on the doel and we continue to employ these people in our country.

Those foreigners came here because some of the people currently on the dole would not get off their ars** and go out and work.
Would you be of the same opinion that the Irish in USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc etc should all fu** off home as well ?

Did any of your family ever emigrate ?

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

The country is in the mess it is, becuase of people like YOU.
Did you vote for bertie in 2002, did you vote for bertie in 2007 ?

They have been doing this for years and getting away with it for years agin becuase of people like YOU.
For most of the history of this state your party have been in power, so the great list of achievements above are down to them.

No wonder you have such a rosey view of our great republic :rolleyes:
I usually find ffers do think things are much better than they really are since a lot of them have usually benefited in some way from their connection to the party. :rolleyes:

irish_bob

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

ah jasus this is getting blown out of proportion.

Aren't you sick of whats been going on? I am a FF voter myself and I am disgusted at what they've done and gotten away with.

The real point is showing the country that we're all one as workers and we all want equality and justice.

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

Would you attend such an event yes or no. perhaps a poll would've been easier than opening up a can of worms lol

you lost my support the second you mentioned that awfull word EQUALITY

dvpower

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I pretty much hate the way people on boards love to pick simple ideas to death.

I hate when people don't agree with me too.

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Would you attend such an event yes or no. perhaps a poll would've been easier than opening up a can of worms lol

Count me out.

NOGMaxpower

shoegirl wrote: »

Much as I agree with the sentiment of not dividing public/private sector workers, lets not forget these gems:

There is no legal obligation on an employer to negotiate with a union on behalf of an employee member, unless previously agreed. This does not prevent a dispute about trade union recognition from being a lawful dispute.

See this
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/eiro/1999/03/feature/ie9903135f.htm

"Employers, on the other hand, can be content that they have successfully seen off a statutory union recognition procedure. American high-technology companies, in particular, will be pleased that a voluntary code has been adopted and that their predominantly non-union status will remain unchallenged."

"the benefits of union representation may still accrue to employees, but without any compulsion on employers to concede union recognition."

"There is no legal right in Ireland for trade unions to be recognised for collective bargaining purposes, or to be consulted, other than under the Protection of Employment Act 1977, which provides that in the case of collective redundancies (which is defined in the Act) the employer must consult with the representatives of the employees "with a view to reaching an agreement"." [PS this is interpreted as individuals acting on behalf of colleagues]

"Multinationals are believed to have made it known that any revision to the current voluntary status of union recognition under Irish law and practice would imperil existing foreign direct investment and put future expansion in Ireland in serious jeopardy. The development agencies and government departments operating in the industrial relations field take these risks very seriously indeed, as does the Government."

"EMPLOYERS’ GROUP Ibec has warned that any move by the Government towards a system of mandatory trade union recognition would be unconstitutional and cost Ireland jobs."

When YOUR public sector union quangoes start a meaningful fight to put an end the two tier system, where Ireland is unique in Europe at giving employers the right to deny collective bargaining to workers, I will then consider supporting YOUR narrow little self interest groups that masquerade as trade unions.

You left us behind years ago in Partnership2000, how dare you look for our support now!

Right on sister how wise you are

NOGMaxpower

jmayo wrote: »

Bull rose tinted glasses stuff.
Anytime in our history when we had a revolution there were always plenty who looked after no.1 i.e. themselves and thus it was only with the advent of the likes of Collins who made sure that the revolters were immune from the usual greedy self interested ones.

In case you didn't know Pearse and Connolly were not supported by the vast majority of people, well at least not while they were alive. :rolleyes:



Greatest republic ?
Don't make us laugh.

A republic where for years our young, politically unconnected and poor had to emigrate to foreign parts to find a decent living and send home money to raise the rest of their family at home.

A republic where the catholic church ruled, much as the protestant unionists had predicted.
A republic where for 60 odd years children were imprisoned in industrial schools, where they were raped and torturted by members of the catholic church, all the while the state condoned it by their tacit approval and failure to do anything, even when informed of the abuses.

This would be the republic where the government allowed the church walk away from it's responsibilities regarding the abuse they carried out on the innocent children in their care.
This would be the republic where the police force often went to the church when allegations were made about it's priests.

Ps I know it only offically became a republic in 1949 and thus the abuse was only carried out for parts of it's term within the republic.

This would be republic where one of our prime ministers was a theif accepting gifts from well connected rich businessmen, one of the highest ranking government ministers was proven to be in receipt of property for corrupt favours, where planning was hijacked to make rich developers richer.
Arepublic where the minister of finance didn't have a bank acocunt and claimed the wads of cash in his office were due to being lucky on the nags.

This would be the republic where young girls, who had been abused and raped, were forbidden from travelling to the UK becuase their church run country were too backward to allow them abort the spawn of their rapists.

This would be country where no one is responsible for anything, where a health service does nothing about the needless deaths becuase of misdiagnosis of cancer, where the old are left to die of dehydration and bedsores in nursing homes setup to make connnected developers and businessmen even richer.
This would be the country where a surgeon was allowed operate in a hospital continually needlessly removing the most precious thing a woman has, her womb.
This would be the republic where innocent children were killed by their father becuase the social services don't do weekends. :mad:
This would be a country where our Haemophilia suffereres were given death sentences by the state blood board.
Yet again did anyone ever pay for it, oh yes the innocent victims did.

FFS people who have your opinion about how special we are should take their heads out of their ars** and see what the country is really like.



Those foreigners came here because some of the people currently on the dole would not get off their ars** and go out and work.
Would you be of the same opinion that the Irish in USA, Canada, UK, Australia, etc etc should all fu** off home as well ?

Did any of your family ever emigrate ?



The country is in the mess it is, becuase of people like YOU.
Did you vote for bertie in 2002, did you vote for bertie in 2007 ?

They have been doing this for years and getting away with it for years agin becuase of people like YOU.
For most of the history of this state your party have been in power, so the great list of achievements above are down to them.

No wonder you have such a rosey view of our great republic :rolleyes:
I usually find ffers do think things are much better than they really are since a lot of them have usually benefited in some way from their connection to the party. :rolleyes:

Epic post...

why are you here if you hate Ireland so much?

I am proud of Ireland I am more proud of my heritage.

I am a republican, I have always been a republican, i voted for bertie in 2001. Since then I have vote SF as my primary vote and FF 2ndary.

You all seem very happy to point fingers at people when all you need to do is look at yourselves for someone to blame.

Were you out on the streets up in arms about government corruption? NO so dont make me laugh. Coming from someone who hasn't got one patriotic bone in their body you do come across as self ritious some what.

Not one single person is to blame, not one party is to blame. We ALL stood by and let the last 15 years unfold into what it is today.

But hey you prefer to sit back, blame people and moan about it all now since your wages and life style is being affected. Typical.

I love your take on Irish history and how you've portrayed it to support your own point of view. BTW anyone can do that.

RodgerTheDoger

Unite us, unite the clans....


Freedom!!!

jmayo

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

Epic post...

why are you here if you hate Ireland so much?

Typical answer from someone like yourself.
It has always suited the ffers for people to leave hasn't it ?
Emigration had always ensured that the cushy jobs are for those connected and the rest can shag off :rolleyes:

Perhaps I sdhould just do as bertie suggested and go off and kill myself :mad:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

I am proud of Ireland I am more proud of my heritage.

I am a republican, I have always been a republican, i voted for bertie in 2001. Since then I have vote SF as my primary vote and FF 2ndary.

Wippee for you.
I am not proud of what this country has become and how this country neglected whole swarths of people throughout it's history.
Worst of all it neglected to look after it's children.
How can you be proud of that ?

BTW Sarah Palin is a republican, republican can mean different things to different people.
Just because I don't subscribe to ideals hijacked by some to cover their deeds doesn't mean I am not republican.
Republicanism was hijacked by ff and sf to give their unethical behaviour a cover of legitimacy.
Ah yes SF, the party of cloud cuckoo economics :rolleyes:

NOGMaxpower wrote: »

You all seem very happy to point fingers at people when all you need to do is look at yourselves for someone to blame.

Were you out on the streets up in arms about government corruption? NO so dont make me laugh. Coming from someone who hasn't got one patriotic bone in their body you do come across as self ritious some what.

Not one single person is to blame, not one party is to blame. We ALL stood by and let the last 15 years unfold into what it is today.

But hey you prefer to sit back, blame people and moan about it all now since your wages and life style is being affected. Typical.

I love your take on Irish history and how you've portrayed it to support your own point of view. BTW anyone can do that.

Just because I don't agree with your f***ing rosey take on the history of this country and because I don't chose to sweep the dirty deeds under the carpet I am unpatriotic.

I am probably a hell of a lot more patriotic to the ideals of the founders of this state, the Pearses, the Connollys, the Collins, The Bolands, than the spanners who continued to vote for ff seeing what they were doing.

BTW the patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel :rolleyes:

Of course we all to blame, typical ff speak.
First it was Lehmans then it is us all.

How f***ing dare you claim it is all our fault and that not one party is to blame.
I have never voted for ff so don't claim that I am like you, to blame for the last 12 years.
BTW it is the last 12 years, get that bit right.

Were you on the streets up in arms about corruption ?
Or was that what the throwing paving slabs at the police on O'Connell St was about ?

Not once have you refuted any of the things I have mentioned as being systemic throughout the history of the fine republic you think is the greatest in the world.
How can you, it is fact.
Or perhaps you would like to tell all the innocent victims of the state's behaviour, the victims of systemic child abuse, that it was fine great republic.

Lets here your take on the history of this country to support your point of view then ?
Come on put your money where your mouth is.

oscarBravo

jmayo: calm down.

RodgerTheDoger

Just my opinion, as a nation we have little right to be throwing around national pride... It just sounds stupid!! Makes us sound like idiots.

I sometimes make fun of my Americans friends by saying "God bless America" or "This is America god damn it!" as if these statements actually mean anything!

If you want to follow their example go right a head.

The devide is simple - Our govenment spends more that the country generates so we are racking up debit as we speak! No one wants to take a pay cut? No one wants to make the hard decsions, fine let's go down the road... I know I will just pack my sh1t up and move to the UK...

Loyality pfft... I refused to be bent over and smile and say I was doing my national duty.... Eventually Ireland will only have Public sector workers as the private sector will have moved away for greener fields.

ei.sdraob

Unite?

no ****ing way, i will never forget how the fatly paid PS workers kept the country ransom, their greed will mean more taxes for everyone and cutting of the welfare for the poorest

DOC09UNAM

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

oscarBravo

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

Or, more prosaically, it's possible that the various people of Ireland have rather different goals and expectations, and the idea that they can be easily united behind a single simplistic slogan is just a little naive.

DOC09UNAM

oscarBravo wrote: »

Or, more prosaically, it's possible that the various people of Ireland have rather different goals and expectations, and the idea that they can be easily united behind a single simplistic slogan is just a little naive.

That's an intellectual way of looking at things.

You're Smart.






No Sarcasm intended, it's just most of the people are disagreeing because they don't like the PS people.

jmayo

oscarBravo wrote: »

jmayo: calm down.

Fair enough.

I am getting too easily roiled up by the soldiers of dysentery.

ei.sdraob

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

OP, How dare you try unite the people of ireland??

Don't you know that the private sector have an unrelentless hatred for the public sector, and would all be too bitter to do this.

when the people in the private sector get the same guaranteed high wages and jobs

then we will unite

tho can only happen under communism once we are all working in the PS


unite my arse, down here in the real world people are a bit more pragmatic,
btw your trade unions screwed its own members, unpaid leave will affect the poorest youngest members of the PS hardest since its a straight cut

DOC09UNAM

ei.sdraob wrote: »

when the people in the private sector get the same guaranteed high wages and jobs

then we will unite

tho can only happen under communism once we are all working in the PS


unite my arse, down here in the real world people are a bit more pragmatic,
btw your trade unions screwed its own members, unpaid leave will affect the poorest youngest members of the PS hardest since its a straight cut

The only people on the "High Wages" as you put it, are the upper level staff, and they will be the least affected by it, it's the young people like you said, that are only trying to earn a living, that are going to be worse off.

egan007

I'm too busy that day.

RodgerTheDoger

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

The only people on the "High Wages" as you put it, are the upper level staff, and they will be the least affected by it, it's the young people like you said, that are only trying to earn a living, that are going to be worse off.

Average is still 50K, I think maybe we need to define "High Wages".


What do you consider, "Low wage", "Modertate wage" and "High wage"?

Considering of course how much the country is actually making......