PS Pay Deal - Teachers staggering days off!!

Dr. Greenthumb

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bid-to-stagger-teachers-leave-for-minimal-impact-1960634.html

The fact that Cowan rolled over for the unions has me pretty p*ssed off but the above article really took the biscuit.

Apart from holding the country to ransom because the wages have to be reduced due to there being no money to pay them they now want to take their 12 days during the school year! Not a mention of taking the 12 unpaid days off during the months of holidays they get paid for at the taxpayers expense.

Surely they're taking the p*ss? Right?

Darragh29

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bid-to-stagger-teachers-leave-for-minimal-impact-1960634.html

The fact that Cowan rolled over for the unions has me pretty p*ssed off but the above article really took the biscuit.

Apart from holding the country to ransom because the wages have to be reduced due to there being no money to pay them they now want to take their 12 days during the school year! Not a mention of taking the 12 unpaid days off during the months of holidays they get paid for at the taxpayers expense.

Surely they're taking the p*ss? Right?

It gets worse... They get paid MORE MONEY during the summer for correcting state exam papers, 60 Euro per paper, IN ADDITION to getting paid their teachers salaries while they are on a 3 month holiday... There are not words in the English language to describe the selfishness and pure unbridled greed of the teachers in this country...

The_Honeybadger

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/bid-to-stagger-teachers-leave-for-minimal-impact-1960634.html

The fact that Cowan rolled over for the unions has me pretty p*ssed off but the above article really took the biscuit.

Apart from holding the country to ransom because the wages have to be reduced due to there being no money to pay them they now want to take their 12 days during the school year! Not a mention of taking the 12 unpaid days off during the months of holidays they get paid for at the taxpayers expense.

Surely they're taking the p*ss? Right?

You sound surprised? They obviously need these extra days off to get the most out of those apartments in Bulgaria and Spain and their holiday homes in the country. Apart from the few months in summer and mid-terms and xmas and easter they are lying empty.

super_furry

Teachers don't get paid during the summer.....

littlebsci

Darragh29 wrote: »

It gets worse... They get paid MORE MONEY during the summer for correcting state exam papers, 60 Euro per paper, IN ADDITION to getting paid their teachers salaries while they are on a 3 month holiday... There are not words in the English language to describe the selfishness and pure unbridled greed of the teachers in this country...

Where do you get some of your information from??? I'd love to know what subject teachers get paid €60 per paper to correct!!

Dr. Greenthumb

mickeyk wrote: »

You sound surprised? They obviously need these extra days off to get the most out of those apartments in Bulgaria and Spain and their holiday homes in the country. Apart from the few months in summer and mid-terms and xmas and easter they are lying empty.

Sorry my bad, i had forgotten all about that!! Here was me thinking they actually gave a sh*t about the kids they thought!

Won't be so naive in future

Darragh29

super_furry wrote: »

Teachers don't get paid during the summer.....

Permanent full time teachers get paid a full salary every month whether they are on holidays or not...

Darragh29

littlebsci wrote: »

Where do you get some of your information from??? I'd love to know what subject teachers get paid €60 per paper to correct!!

I was told this by a teacher, they get paid 60 Euro a paper to correct a leaving cert paper.

Ticktactoe

Where i do strongly believe that some teachers out there should not be in a position of teaching children, I do believe that there are a few genuine ones who do teach for the love of the job.

On that note the extra allowances that some teachers get are a bit ridculous and I must say their salary is very good. However not all public servants are on the one salary so where there are good salaries there are also crap ones!

Dickerty

Darragh29 wrote: »

It gets worse... They get paid MORE MONEY during the summer for correcting state exam papers, 60 Euro per paper, IN ADDITION to getting paid their teachers salaries while they are on a 3 month holiday

IMO, this should be mandatory for all senior teachers. If you choose not to mark, you should be docked and whoever takes up the slack gets paid the extra. Why are we paying them extra in the summer TO DO LESS WORK??

littlebsci

Darragh29 wrote: »

I was told this by a teacher, they get paid 60 Euro a paper to correct a leaving cert paper.

I think you'll find that that just counts as hearsay. The rate differs for every subject and level, both at Junior and Leaving Cert.

Dr. Greenthumb

littlebsci wrote: »

I think you'll find that that just counts as hearsay. The rate differs for every subject and level, both at Junior and Leaving Cert.

Littlebsci are you a teacher? If so what is the general feeling in the teaching profession about taking these 12 days off during the school year?

Are teachers patting themselves on the back about further hampering the development of children within our school system?

Darragh29

littlebsci wrote: »

I think you'll find that that just counts as hearsay. The rate differs for every subject and level, both at Junior and Leaving Cert.

Whatever the rate, which I'm sure differs from exam type (leaving cert/junior cert), to subject, etc, I think we can agree that they DO GET PAID FOR CORRECTING EXAM PAPERS!!!

Now whether it is 30 Euro, 40 Euro or 60 Euro, I don't know, I just know what I was told. The salient point is that they do get paid for it, and they also get paid for doing nothing while they are on a 3 month summer holiday, what in the name of Jasus is all that about???

The_Honeybadger

Ticktactoe wrote: »

Where i do strongly believe that some teachers out there should not be in a position of teaching children, I do believe that there are a few genuine ones who do teach for the love of the job.

On that note the extra allowances that some teachers get are a bit ridculous and I must say their salary is very good. However not all public servants are on the one salary so where there are good salaries there are also crap ones!

While I agree i think that teachers who teach for the love of the job wouldnt need the big salary and perks to be drawn to the profession. In my view the salary and perks in the job mean that we have too many people taking up teaching related 3rd level courses in the hope of getting on the gravy train. We are training too many teachers and the result is thousands of them will be on the dole queue every year scraping by on a days subbing here and there in the hope of getting a full time job. We all know people who were drawn to teaching for the holidays etc. We are told that the IT and pharma and other high end sectors are our future, where is the incentive for school leavers to take these courses at third level? There is none yet the gov keeps rattling on about creating a smart economy. All school leavers now see is 500k people on the dole and teachers and other PS secure as houses with well paid jobs, which would you choose?

Darragh29

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

Littlebsci are you a teacher? If so what is the general feeling in the teaching profession about taking these 12 days off during the school year?

Are teachers patting themselves on the back about further hampering the development of children within our school system?

You know when you see Mc Loone, a public sector FAILURE, standing outside government buildings grinning like a Cheshire cat, that Joe public will be asked to empty his/her pockets again...

muboop1

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

Littlebsci are you a teacher? If so what is the general feeling in the teaching profession about taking these 12 days off during the school year?

Are teachers patting themselves on the back about further hampering the development of children within our school system?

My dads a teacher and he's pissed.
He never wanted to strike,
But he felt he had every right to protest.

Why?
Because for his qualifications all his mates were off during the boom earning much much more then him. They laughed at him when they were getting their bonuses etc... He got none of this. He planned ahead, he predicted the economy would crash. So he went for job security.

Now hes being punished for his choice, even do he never got to benefit then with bonuses etc... and hes losing his benefits now.

His words not mine.

Hell my mate gets an 8% bonus THIS christmass, works for a bank...
AND makes 15 euro an hour, double time on sunday and has absolutely no qualifications and answers phones for a living...

Rediculous...

Dr. Greenthumb

Darragh29 wrote: »

You know when you see Mc Loone, a public sector FAILURE, standing outside government buildings grinning like a Cheshire cat, that Joe public will be asked to empty his/her pockets again...

True.. the papers are saying the 12 days will generate €800m while other reports put it in the region of €300m, where is the rest coming from??

I don't think my pockets are deep enough

littlebsci

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

Littlebsci are you a teacher? If so what is the general feeling in the teaching profession about taking these 12 days off during the school year?

Are teachers patting themselves on the back about further hampering the development of children within our school system?

Yes I am a teacher and quite frankly I'd prefer if we just had to take a pay cut as it might (only might though!!!) get some of the people baying for our blood off our backs.

Also as a teacher it is such a pain in the ass to have to take personal days at all that I don't fancy the hassle of being forced to take unpaid leave during the year. In my opinion, what will more than likely happen is that many (many) teachers won't bother taking the days allocated and will just take the hit on the salary.

Don't take that to mean though that I feel we should be forced to take them during the summer. That is simply a pay cut and should be declared as such!

Don't be so smug as to suggest that we would be "patting ourselves on the back" about any of this. The majority of us realise we are probably going to have to take a hit. Naturally we don't want to. How many people ever want to take a pay cut, lose jobs etc??? But I know I've just accepted it. (I think my parents are going to have to too.....they'll probably get stuck with me at home for even longer than anticipated now) :rolleyes:

Dannyboy83

muboop1 wrote: »

My dads a teacher and he's pissed.
He never wanted to strike,
But he felt he had every right to protest.

Why?
Because for his qualifications all his mates were off during the boom earning much much more then him. They laughed at him when they were getting their bonuses etc... He got none of this. He planned ahead, he predicted the economy would crash. So he went for job security.

Now hes being punished for his choice, even do he never got to benefit then with bonuses etc... and hes losing his benefits now.

His words not mine.

Hell my mate gets an 8% bonus THIS christmass, works for a bank...
AND makes 15 euro an hour, double time on sunday and has absolutely no qualifications and answers phones for a living...

Rediculous...

Where does he work?
I got an Xmas bonus once in the last 6 years (it was worth €39.99)

I don't know one single person getting bonuses (outside of a Sales role)

littlebsci

Darragh29 wrote: »

Whatever the rate, which I'm sure differs from exam type (leaving cert/junior cert), to subject, etc, I think we can agree that they DO GET PAID FOR CORRECTING EXAM PAPERS!!!

Now whether it is 30 Euro, 40 Euro or 60 Euro, I don't know, I just know what I was told. The salient point is that they do get paid for it, and they also get paid for doing nothing while they are on a 3 month summer holiday, what in the name of Jasus is all that about???

It's nowhere near that amount! If it was we'd all be queuing up to do it for God's sake!

muboop1

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Where does he work?
I got an Xmas bonus once in the last 6 years (it was worth €39.99)

I don't know one single person getting bonuses (outside of a Sales role)

Permanent TSB. The call center in Blackrock.
It's written into his contract apparently. He has to get 8% of what he earns over the year. If he earned 100k he would get 8k etc...

Jip

muboop1 wrote: »

Because for his qualifications all his mates were off during the boom earning much much more then him. They laughed at him when they were getting their bonuses etc...

Why is this bull**** cliché wheeled out all the time ? I've always worked in the private sector and have yet to receive a Christmas bonus.

Dr. Greenthumb

muboop1 wrote: »

My dads a teacher and he's pissed.
He never wanted to strike,
But he felt he had every right to protest.

Why?
Because for his qualifications all his mates were off during the boom earning much much more then him. They laughed at him when they were getting their bonuses etc... He got none of this. He planned ahead, he predicted the economy would crash. So he went for job security.

Now hes being punished for his choice, even do he never got to benefit then with bonuses etc... and hes losing his benefits now.

His words not mine.

Hell my mate gets an 8% bonus THIS christmass, works for a bank...
AND makes 15 euro an hour, double time on sunday and has absolutely no qualifications and answers phones for a living...

Rediculous...

Don't take offence but i assume you are at least 18 or so and your dad has been working since before you were born? By that it seems your dad predicted the economy would crash before the economy even took off but please correct me if i'm wrong.

Also teachers get paid an hourly rate a lot greater than €15/hr and before any teacher starts giving out about that... do the maths

Riskymove

Jip wrote: »

Why is this bull**** cliché wheeled out all the time ?

hmm...yes i wonder....you certainly never see clichés about public servants here.....:pac:

johnp23

muboop1 wrote: »

My dads a teacher and he's pissed.
He never wanted to strike,
But he felt he had every right to protest.

Why?
Because for his qualifications all his mates were off during the boom earning much much more then him. They laughed at him when they were getting their bonuses etc... He got none of this. He planned ahead, he predicted the economy would crash. So he went for job security.

Now hes being punished for his choice, even do he never got to benefit then with bonuses etc... and hes losing his benefits now.

His words not mine.

Hell my mate gets an 8% bonus THIS christmass, works for a bank...
AND makes 15 euro an hour, double time on sunday and has absolutely no qualifications and answers phones for a living...

Rediculous...

Does this friend of yours get a 3 month Paid holiday ...........................


Didnt think so. Teachers just like all public sector and private sector workers need to cope on The good times are over everyone needs to pull up there socks and be counted and pay for there piece of the pie it doesnt mattter if you ate if or not. The first thing should be the Public sector pension that should be gone completely if you want a pension pay for it yourself. I didnt buy a house during the boom i didnt buy a fancy car in good times i just pottered on rented and that was that. Now i have to pay and income levy to pay for some private sector banker to stay in his job or for some public sector pen pusher to sit behind a desk and do SFA.


PS all unions and there so called boards should be disbanded. Just my tupence worth

Dr. Greenthumb

littlebsci wrote: »

Yes I am a teacher and quite frankly I'd prefer if we just had to take a pay cut as it might (only might though!!!) get some of the people baying for our blood off our backs.

Also as a teacher it is such a pain in the ass to have to take personal days at all that I don't fancy the hassle of being forced to take unpaid leave during the year. In my opinion, what will more than likely happen is that many (many) teachers won't bother taking the days allocated and will just take the hit on the salary.

Don't take that to mean though that I feel we should be forced to take them during the summer. That is simply a pay cut and should be declared as such!

Don't be so smug as to suggest that we would be "patting ourselves on the back" about any of this. The majority of us realise we are probably going to have to take a hit. Naturally we don't want to. How many people ever want to take a pay cut, lose jobs etc??? But I know I've just accepted it. (I think my parents are going to have to too.....they'll probably get stuck with me at home for even longer than anticipated now) :rolleyes:

I would be as smug as to say your putting your own financial gain over the welfare and future of the kids you claim to love teaching!!

The_Honeybadger

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

Don't take offence but i assume you are at least 18 or so and your dad has been working since before you were born? By that it seems your dad predicted the economy would crash before the economy even took off but please correct me if i'm wrong.

Also teachers get paid an hourly rate a lot greater than €15/hr and before any teacher starts giving out about that... do the maths

qualified substitute teachers get over 50 euro an hour. It varies for permanent people with lenght of service but its sure alot more than 15 euro per hour.

MI5

littlebsci wrote: »

Yes I am a teacher and quite frankly I'd prefer if we just had to take a pay cut as it might (only might though!!!) get some of the people baying for our blood off our backs.

Also as a teacher it is such a pain in the ass to have to take personal days at all that I don't fancy the hassle of being forced to take unpaid leave during the year. In my opinion, what will more than likely happen is that many (many) teachers won't bother taking the days allocated and will just take the hit on the salary.

Don't take that to mean though that I feel we should be forced to take them during the summer. That is simply a pay cut and should be declared as such!

Don't be so smug as to suggest that we would be "patting ourselves on the back" about any of this. The majority of us realise we are probably going to have to take a hit. Naturally we don't want to. How many people ever want to take a pay cut, lose jobs etc??? But I know I've just accepted it. (I think my parents are going to have to too.....they'll probably get stuck with me at home for even longer than anticipated now) :rolleyes:

Hi, are you primary or secondary?
If secondary, I would like to hear your views on the "free class" syndrome which seems so prevalent in some schools at least.
The secondary where my kids go is an absolute joke. Seems like the average number of free classes is about 8 per week, for one lame duck reason or another.
Another question. Have you ever seen a teacher properly diciplined for below par performance.
For example ..... teacher with pretty bad alcohol dependency problem. Missing classes, smell on breadth, poor general achievement by students in this teachers subjects.

MI5

muboop1

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

Don't take offence but i assume you are at least 18 or so and your dad has been working since before you were born? By that it seems your dad predicted the economy would crash before the economy even took off but please correct me if i'm wrong.

Also teachers get paid an hourly rate a lot greater than €15/hr and before any teacher starts giving out about that... do the maths

Dont mistake me for a child, I'm in my final year of college doing an engineering degree, so im a good few years older then 18.

I'm also entering into the private sector.

Im not nieve at all tbh. I know teachers get paid well. But difference is i think rightly so.

15 an hour isnt bad pay for the job they perform. Getting a bonus on top of that is rediculous. Banks claim to not have money and borrow off government then they pay bonuses? So he at the bottom rung gets 8%, what do his superiors get etc...

Ill be honest, teachers get paid whatever, and if it cant be paid then there should be a cut. But no so long as the government is supporting paying bonues to banks!

muboop1

mickeyk wrote: »

qualified substitute teachers get over 50 euro an hour. It varies for permanent people with lenght of service but its sure alot more than 15 euro per hour.

I agree that is ridiculous. But thats not what my point was at all.
15 an hour for bottom rung in his first year isn't bad. My problem is the bonus!

johnp23

muboop1 wrote: »

I agree that is ridiculous. But thats not what my point was at all.
15 an hour for bottom rung in his first year isn't bad. My problem is the bonus!

Is he doing his job as per what his job spec says. If so he is entitled to the Bonus. The Irish Goverment own most of the Irish banks so there the ones to blame they can make the decision to defer the bonus but there not.

bladespin

super_furry wrote: »

Teachers don't get paid during the summer.....

No they get paid for it during the working year, pretty good deal if you ask anyone else who works.

Stark

muboop1 wrote: »

15 an hour for bottom rung in his first year isn't bad. My problem is the bonus!

You're begrudging someone on €30k for being paid a performance bonus? The other side of the coin is that if he doesn't perform, he gets paid no bonus and no salary increase. Whereas the public sector worker will get paid their salary increment regardless.

muboop1

johnp23 wrote: »

Does this friend of yours get a 3 month Paid holiday ...........................


Didnt think so. Teachers just like all public sector and private sector workers need to cope on The good times are over everyone needs to pull up there socks and be counted and pay for there piece of the pie it doesnt mattter if you ate if or not. The first thing should be the Public sector pension that should be gone completely if you want a pension pay for it yourself. I didnt buy a house during the boom i didnt buy a fancy car in good times i just pottered on rented and that was that. Now i have to pay and income levy to pay for some private sector banker to stay in his job or for some public sector pen pusher to sit behind a desk and do SFA.


PS all unions and there so called boards should be disbanded. Just my tupence worth

Mate that is a ridiculous statement. The thing is, if the education system got an over haul and they got less holidays I'm sure they would accept it! That the education system allows them this is another issue.

As for the public sector pension, most teachers would gladly lose that pension if they got an option to pay into their own along with the state pension like everyone else.

As for the rest of your self serving rant... well done???

The_Honeybadger

muboop1 wrote: »

Mate that is a ridiculous statement. The thing is, if the education system got an over haul and they got less holidays I'm sure they would accept it! That the education system allows them this is another issue.

As for the public sector pension, most teachers would gladly lose that pension if they got an option to pay into their own along with the state pension like everyone else.

As for the rest of your self serving rant... well done???

Sorry but I have to disagree, if you tried to take any holidays off teachers there would be absolute murder and strikes. Same goes for their pensions.

littlebsci

Dr. Greenthumb wrote: »

I would be as smug as to say your putting your own financial gain over the welfare and future of the kids you claim to love teaching!!

If you read my reply, you'd see I've clearly stated that taking a pay cut is something I've accepted we are going to have to do. All I would prefer is that the powers that be would just come out and say "right we're cutting you pay by X%" and let that be the end of it. These unpaid days are going to cause even more bad blood between private and public sectors.

Dr. Greenthumb

muboop1 wrote: »

I agree that is ridiculous. But thats not what my point was at all.
15 an hour for bottom rung in his first year isn't bad. My problem is the bonus!

It's not all the banks fault, they are regulated by the Financial Regulator (Public Service Body), just like the developers couldn't build without planning or paying local authority fees.

angeldelight

But of course they would take the days during the school year. The idea is to have unpaid leave - all the other public servants would get an extra 2 weeks off work.. so teachers should get the same. Otherwise it's the same holidays but less money so it's a pay cut for teachers only while the rest of the public service get holidays.

I'm not a teacher by the way, I don't work in the public sector at all.

My OH works in the private sector and he had to take unpaid leave to correspond to a 10% reduction in salary. The whole point was that it wasn't a pay cut - he was getting the time off to make up for it. This is the same thing... if the teachers don't get the extra holidays at a time they wouldn't be off already it's unfair. It shouldn't matter how many days holidays any public servant has to start with - this is extra time off to compensate for a drop in earnings

muboop1

Stark wrote: »

You're begrudging someone on €30k for being paid a performance bonus? The other side of the coin is that if he doesn't perform, he gets paid no bonus and no salary increase. Whereas the public sector worker will get paid their salary increment regardless.

Ah yeh but with no qualifications, first year working 30*0.08=2.4k,
So he gets 32.4k a year approx. For his first year in a job, totally unqualified.
He has pleanty of room to be promoted...
He says this himself.

Granted at least his salary increase will be performance based.
But the potential for it is still there. As for if he doesnt perform, his words were he has to get it according to his contract.
I do not know teachers starting salary, 36 or so probably? can't remember im sure someone here knows. But im damn sure within the next 4 years he will up his salary by that much. So by that logic after 4 years he will have at least the same wage a new qualified teacher has. Except the new qualified teacher wasn't earning the whole way along.

The fecking gap isn't as big as everyone assumes. Not for all cases.

johnp23

You seem to say the teachers will glady do this and do that . Why dont you do it then???. Practise what you preach to the students to be pro-active in life. Teachers are comfortable now and in all fairness have no interest and changing anything

Darragh29

littlebsci wrote: »

If you read my reply, you'd see I've clearly stated that taking a pay cut is something I've accepted we are going to have to do. All I would prefer is that the powers that be would just come out and say "right we're cutting you pay by X%" and let that be the end of it. These unpaid days are going to cause even more bad blood between private and public sectors.

I can tell you one thing, if this government was running a private sector business, it would have been long since put into liquidation if it even got up and running in the first place...

All that is required here is a decision and then a commitment to execute the decision without fear or favour. The worst thing that can happen, is what is happening here, dithering and procrastinating and sending out mixed signals all over the place.

Just make a f*cking decision for once and IMPLEMENT IT!!! Cut pay, everyone over 40K is taking a pay cut, keep it simple and stop fannying around with stupid ideas like unpaid leave and such sh*te which are completely unworkable.

There is only one thing worse than a bad decision and that is NO DECISION...

muboop1

mickeyk wrote: »

Sorry but I have to disagree, if you tried to take any holidays off teachers there would be absolute murder and strikes. Same goes for their pensions.

Can you back up the pension thing do really?

If they got their money for whatever as put in to date, and changed existing contracts for same deals bar they do their pension themselves most wouldn't have a problem. I know this from talking to my dad and his mates.

If you made their holidays shorter, end of day thats tuff. If education system got an overhaul many would be ok with it i'm sure, once it was structured with a significant improvement.

johnp23

muboop1 wrote: »

Can you back up the pension thing do really?

If they got their money for whatever as put in to date, and changed existing contracts for same deals bar they do their pension themselves most wouldn't have a problem. I know this from talking to my dad and his mates.

If you made their holidays shorter, end of day thats tuff. If education system got an overhaul many would be ok with it i'm sure, once it was structured with a significant improvement.

Then why didnt the teachers suggest these cost cutting mesaures they can jump up and down when someone suggests something else but keep there mouths shut when there asked to speak. Teachers can say we would give up this we would give up that . All i would say it do it lead by example your the educators of this country lead by example and stop hiding behind your big brother(the Unions)

MI5

Darragh29 wrote: »

I can tell you one thing, if this government was running a private sector business, it would have been long since put into liquidation if it even got up and running in the first place...

All that is required here is a decision and then a commitment to execute the decision without fear or favour. The worst thing that can happen, is what is happening here, dithering and procrastinating and sending out mixed signals all over the place.

Just make a f*cking decision for once and IMPLEMENT IT!!! Cut pay, everyone over 40K is taking a pay cut, keep it simple and stop fannying around with stupid ideas like unpaid leave and such sh*te which are completely unworkable.

There is only one thing worse than a bad decision and that is NO DECISION...

Bang on. In fact if the ministers in this government were company directors, they could be charged with reckless trading, with all the legal ramifications which follow. Example, barred for 5 years from acting as a director .
Shame, we can't fire the whole lot of them except Lehihan. I think he actually is taking his responsibilities seriously.

muboop1

johnp23 wrote: »

You seem to say the teachers will glady do this and do that . Why dont you do it then???. Practise what you preach to the students to be pro-active in life. Teachers are comfortable now and in all fairness have no interest and changing anything

Typical rubbish point of view, begrudging public sector worker.
People will always strike when given a pay cut. Accept it.
Im not a teacher so doesn't apply to me anyway.

Practice what you preach to the students??? care to elaborate? in any context regarding this thread makes no sense.

Teachers have no interest in changing anything? well done for having an opinion. Go do a survey get some concrete facts and come back. Then claim its a fact... else your just producing word vomit.

Fact is most teachers would be ok with change, but nobody in the world is ok with a pay cut...

muboop1

johnp23 wrote: »

Then why didnt the teachers suggest these cost cutting mesaures they can jump up and down when someone suggests something else but keep there mouths shut when there asked to speak. Teachers can say we would give up this we would give up that . All i would say it do it lead by example your the educators of this country lead by example and stop hiding behind your big brother(the Unions)

Pointless post. You really need to elaborate your point, give an example or two please. Else you aren't making sense!

The_Honeybadger

muboop1 wrote: »

Can you back up the pension thing do really?

If they got their money for whatever as put in to date, and changed existing contracts for same deals bar they do their pension themselves most wouldn't have a problem. I know this from talking to my dad and his mates.

If you made their holidays shorter, end of day thats tuff. If education system got an overhaul many would be ok with it i'm sure, once it was structured with a significant improvement.

We are both only expressing opinions, I don't think talking to your dad and his mates counts as backing anything up quite frankly. Teachers have a very poor record in being co-operative in any type of reform so it is naive in the extreme to think most would be ok with reduced holidays, they would look for extra pay at least and would go on strike at worst IMO.

Their pensions are linked to their final salary and many get promotions before they retire, they would be crazy to enter a private defined benefit scheme, again IMO.

NOGMaxpower

littlebsci wrote: »

Yes I am a teacher and quite frankly I'd prefer if we just had to take a pay cut as it might (only might though!!!) get some of the people baying for our blood off our backs.

Also as a teacher it is such a pain in the ass to have to take personal days at all that I don't fancy the hassle of being forced to take unpaid leave during the year. In my opinion, what will more than likely happen is that many (many) teachers won't bother taking the days allocated and will just take the hit on the salary.

Don't take that to mean though that I feel we should be forced to take them during the summer. That is simply a pay cut and should be declared as such!

Don't be so smug as to suggest that we would be "patting ourselves on the back" about any of this. The majority of us realise we are probably going to have to take a hit. Naturally we don't want to. How many people ever want to take a pay cut, lose jobs etc??? But I know I've just accepted it. (I think my parents are going to have to too.....they'll probably get stuck with me at home for even longer than anticipated now) :rolleyes:

welcome to the reality us in the private sector had to face earlier in the year.

Stark

muboop1 wrote: »

I do not know teachers starting salary, 36 or so probably? can't remember im sure someone here knows. But im damn sure within the next 4 years he will up his salary by that much. So by that logic after 4 years he will have at least the same wage a new qualified teacher has. Except the new qualified teacher wasn't earning the whole way along.

A teacher with a Hdip will start on €40k for 9 months work (which works out to about €53k if you take it pro-rata).

LoLth

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Where does he work?
I got an Xmas bonus once in the last 6 years (it was worth €39.99)

I don't know one single person getting bonuses (outside of a Sales role)

I've worked for 4 companies over 10 years and I've gotten a Christmas bonus every year, even the year where the company announced "no christmas bonus" I was one of five employees elected by the board of directors to receive a bonus! €600 , not to be sneezed at either (though I felt bad as I went shopping for Christmans presents, that others in the company werent getting anything).

Diarmuid

muboop1 wrote: »

My dads a teacher and he's pissed.

Well you should tell him to cop the f on. He's earning 26% more than his private sector equivalent, not to mention his pension.