Whaling- what do you reckon?

dan719

Just after watching whale wars on Discovery Channel, and was pretty much disgusted at the tactics of the Sea Sheppard crew. Okay, I understand you disagree with whaling, but putting just one human life in danger is far too high a cost to save what is ultimately an animal.

It also got me thinking, why is whaling so looked down upon. We think nothing of catching thousands of tonnes of cod in our own waters, as well as most other type of fish. The Japanese have used used whales as a food source for a long time, why should they not be entitled to build a sustainable fishing industry similar to what we have for cod/lobster/monk and so on. Just as an aside, mink whales (which the Japanese catch 935 of a year for 'research' are currently increasing).

So what do you think, should whaling be allowed in countries where it was traditionally practiced?

Edit; I'm pro whaling- I don't see it as any different to catching other fish for food.

starbelgrade

When I see a whale die, I feel all blubbery.

The_Minister

We did this a few days ago.

And your sig makes you seem a little more biased than you're letting on.

The_Minister

starbelgrade wrote: »

When I see a whale die, I feel all blubbery.

May none of your sons carry your blood.

dan719

The_Minister wrote: »

We did this a few days ago.

And your sig makes you seem a little more biased than you're letting on.

Sorry I'll edit my post. Just to clarify, I am pro whaling. Also I don't remember that thread.

starbelgrade

The_Minister wrote: »

May none of your sons carry your blood.

Especially not if they're carrying it off in buckets down to the black market. :eek:

Borneo Fnctn

You'd swear whales were the only animals killed by humans that feel pain. I think it's reckless to mess with the balance of ecosystems though. Killing a huge mammal like a whale has a fucking huge effect on other species.

starbelgrade

jackpalance wrote: »

You'd swear whales were the only animals killed by humans that feel pain. I think it's reckless to mess with the balance of ecosystems though. Killing a huge mammal like a whale has a fucking huge effect on other species.

The history of civilisation is based on messing with the planets' eco-systems - from farming, to industrialization. Do you suggest we go back to living in caves?!

On another note - anyone know what whale meat tastes like? (Don't say "a bit like chicken")

CHD

Whale meat tastes like chicken

orourkeda

I prefer dogging

Borneo Fnctn

starbelgrade wrote: »

The history of civilisation is based on messing with the planets' eco-systems - from farming, to industrialization.

I don't think it's a good idea to have a free for all. Knock off a few whales if they can be spared. You won't know how killing too many whales will affect the fishing industry (for example) until it happens.

Do you suggest we go back to living in caves?!

No, of course not.

dan719

jackpalance wrote: »

I don't think it's a good idea to have a free for all. Knock off a few whales if they can be spared. You won't know how killing too many whales will affect the fishing industry (for example) until it happens.

TBF it would probably have a benefit on the fishing industry, in that they would no longer have to compete with whales for fish. It is also reasonable enough to assume that a suitable increase in fishing quota would keep the food chain relatively stable.

clikityclak

Those 'Sea Shepards' are a bit of a farce really aren't they? I think for countries where it's the native industry thats somewhat acceptable, but then that gets exploited too....

Stercus Accidit

I saw the south park episode of these guys before I watched the show tonight, and I was lol'ing my hole off at these gits

Gormless lame hippies, clueless surfers and socially inept losers (I'm looking at you first mate) not to mention tubby the captain, the japs might inadvertently fire a harpoon at him given the amount of blubber he's packing.

A lol fest all round, recommended!

MikeC101

starbelgrade wrote: »

On another note - anyone know what whale meat tastes like? (Don't say "a bit like chicken")

Depends on where on the whale it's from - the bit I had was a little similar to beef I think - though it was with a pretty spicy sauce. Some cuts are oilier / fishier tasting apparently, they had "whale bacon" as well. (This was in a restaurant that served whales that were accidentally killed or died naturally - so they claimed.)

dynamopiev

one of top five best walls in the world

starbelgrade

MikeC101 wrote: »

This was in a restaurant that served whales that were accidentally killed or died naturally

Yuk - I wouldn't eat a cow that died of old age or eat roadkill.. if it's going in my mouth, I wanna know that it was born, bred & slaughtered for my pleasure - not afterthought.

damone

so nobody here would mind if any of these specie s of whale s went the same way the dodo did ?

starbelgrade

damone wrote: »

so nobody here would mind if any of these specie s of whale s went the same way the dodo did ?

That's like asking - should we eat all the cows until there's none left? The discussion is not about whaling them into oblivion.

The_Minister

damone wrote: »

so nobody here would mind if any of these specie s of whale s went the same way the dodo did ?

Only some species of whale are endangered. Minke whales could be hunted in large numbers and be ok.

Stercus Accidit

damone wrote: »

so nobody here would mind if any of these specie s of whale s went the same way the dodo did ?

You could say the same about cows, and be equally wrong.

Minke whales are under the "least concern" category according to the IUCN.

FarmerGreen

MikeC101 wrote: »

(This was in a restaurant that served whales that were accidentally killed or died naturally - so they claimed.)

Marine road kill.
Its horrible, tough as old boots and fishy.
Try kangaroo or horse.
Human beings "long pig" tastes like pork so I'm told. Certainly smells like it, if ever you've been burnt.

starbelgrade

FarmerGreen wrote: »

Marine road kill.
.

I accidentally reversed into a whale in the floods in Cork.

MikeC101

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yuk - I wouldn't eat a cow that died of old age or eat roadkill.. if it's going in my mouth, I wanna know that it was born, bred & slaughtered for my pleasure - not afterthought.

The impression I got was that they were "accidentally" caught in nets, rather than accidentally, and that was just there to keep the environmental lobbies happy. Plus it might be a little hard to breed whales for food all that easily, they're kinda big.

(Much like dog restaurants just went a little lower profile after international pressure, which seems to have led to overall worse conditions for the dogs.)

starbelgrade

MikeC101 wrote: »

The impression I got was that they were "accidentally" caught in nets

Or on big fishing rods.

damone

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

You could say the same about cows, and be equally wrong.

Minke whales are under the "least concern" category according to the IUCN.

yeah id say there might be a few more cows around than whales!
are minkes the only whale that are being fished ?

Crow71

**** u whale and a **** u dolphin

Only kidding, it is terrible though

dan719

MikeC101 wrote: »

The impression I got was that they were "accidentally" caught in nets,

I looked at this for a while and was equally incredulous, but there is actually at least two methods of fishing where this could happen.

One is seine or purse(ringnetting) fishing. Basically a massive net is shot in a big circle enclosing the entire area and everything in it. It's used to target so-called pelagic species such as herring and mackerel. I've heard of many cases of dolphins being caught, so it's not hard to imagine the same happening to whales.

The other is mid water trawling. Again this targets pelagic fish and involves a massive net being towed along. The net covers all but a small bit of the water column, and can theoretically have large mammals as bycatch.

Demersal fisheries (i.e. seabed floor species) using bottom trawling and tangle nets could not realistically catch a whale. They are simply too big.

Edit. Apparently it is possible for whales to become trapped in gillnets. These nets are used mainly for cod and pollock in Ireland and kill the fish by 'drowning it', it catches it's gills on the mesh (hence the name) and cannot breathe. I suppose that with large enough mesh sizes (gaps in net), whales can be killed also.

mcmoustache

If whales could be slaughtered sustainably, I don't see the problem.

But just to make my biases clear, I am also of the opinion that poor people should eat poorer people:eek:

Ddad

There are a number of reasons why it is inadvisable to continue the harvest of large whales. All whale populations exist at a fraction of their populations a century ago.

Whales also reach their size slowly and as such they become a sink for the pollutants that us fine folk wash into the sea. As such they contain very high levels of mercury etc. For the most part many of these whales that are killed for 'scientific' reasons are harvested for consumption. In Japan much of the ehale meat that is harveted is not consumed by humans as the demand for the whale meat follows an older demographic and consumer concumption has dropped. As such the meat is in frozen stock piles or makes its way into the animal food chain.

The argument is often advanced that traditional consumption of whale meat should be allowed for cultural reasons. This is a tenuos one as in the case of many whale species their numbers are in such peril the need for cultural consumption will ultimately result ib their extinction. The people of Fiji practised cannibalism a century and a half ago as part of their culture but they got over it.

On an economic front none of the whaling operations in the world are independently profitable, they all require substantial supports from their governments.

So, to recap.......the meat is bad, it's not profitable, there are very few of them around and the whole moral question of pursuing a species to the point of extinction hangs in the air. Still seem like a good idea to eat whales?

kumate_champ07

the reason why its different to killing cows,chickens and pigs for food is that its a very slow, distressing and painful death for a whale

starbelgrade

I like whales, but I couldn't eat a whole one.

Run_to_da_hills

Not another thread about the minister for Health.

ardinn

So, to recap.......the meat is bad, it's not profitable, there are very few of them around and the whole moral question of pursuing a species to the point of extinction hangs in the air. Still seem like a good idea to eat whales?[/quote]

Earlier poster said it tasted like beef - and there are hundreds of varieties of whales so you have to try em all!!

Nothing is profitable anymore - not ever the taxman

There is lots of mink whales that could sustain large catches (according to earlier posts)

Morals? Most people here are o.k. with it - its the same as being a veggie!

Is it cold on that boat??

Stercus Accidit

damone wrote: »

yeah id say there might be a few more cows around than whales!
are minkes the only whale that are being fished ?

Mainly minke, there are 600k of them, the japanese kill 900 or so per year.

Thats 0.15%?

Grand.

Ddad

ardinn wrote: »

So, to recap.......the meat is bad, it's not profitable, there are very few of them around and the whole moral question of pursuing a species to the point of extinction hangs in the air. Still seem like a good idea to eat whales?

Earlier poster said it tasted like beef - and there are hundreds of varieties of whales so you have to try em all!!

Nothing is profitable anymore - not ever the taxman

There is lots of mink whales that could sustain large catches (according to earlier posts)

Morals? Most people here are o.k. with it - its the same as being a veggie!

Is it cold on that boat??[/QUOTE]

It's poisonous meat, beef for the most part isn't. Minke whales are one of the only large whale populations left because they usen't hunt them because they were too small, but when everything else is gone.......

A boards forum is not a steering comitee for morals it's a discussion. If whaling were morally acceptable to most people we'd alll be paying a fortune for a bit of Minke.

For the most part the global fishing industry is doing a right old job of destroying the oceans, why indeed exclude the whales. Why bother leaving anything for future genrations??

ardinn

Ddad wrote: »

Earlier poster said it tasted like beef - and there are hundreds of varieties of whales so you have to try em all!!

Nothing is profitable anymore - not ever the taxman

There is lots of mink whales that could sustain large catches (according to earlier posts)

Morals? Most people here are o.k. with it - its the same as being a veggie!

Is it cold on that boat??

It's poisonous meat, beef for the most part isn't. Minke whales are one of the only large whale populations left because they usen't hunt them because they were too small, but when everything else is gone.......

A boards forum is not a steering comitee for morals it's a discussion. If whaling were morally acceptable to most people we'd alll be paying a fortune for a bit of Minke.

For the most part the global fishing industry is doing a right old job of destroying the oceans, why indeed exclude the whales. Why bother leaving anything for future genrations??[/quote]

Thats the spirit!

dan719

ddad wrote:

For the most part the global fishing industry is doing a right old job of destroying the oceans, why indeed exclude the whales. Why bother leaving anything for future genrations??

Want to offer anything to back that up, or can I laugh at you without even having to prove you wrong.

starbelgrade

ardinn wrote: »

A boards forum is not a steering comitee

Sound of whales breathing a sigh of relief (though not a loud enough sigh that the Japanese can hear).

opinion guy

Didn't any of you see Star Trek: The Voyage Home ???

The Whales are our future !!!!!!


KHANNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!:mad:

Ddad

dan719 wrote: »

Want to offer anything to back that up, or can I laugh at you without even having to prove you wrong.

I did my masters thesis on it. Read the end of the line (google), check out boris Wormhttp://wormlab.biology.dal.ca/ and take it from there. Loads of free info on the web if your interested. Methinks your not up for a debate on it though.:rolleyes: If you are get back to me.

opinion guy

Ddad wrote: »

I did my masters thesis on it. Read the end of the line (google), check out boris Wormhttp://wormlab.biology.dal.ca/ and take it from there. Loads of free info on the web if your interested. Methinks your not up for a debate on it though.:rolleyes: If you are get back to me.

Now thats ownage...

damone

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Mainly minke, there are 600k of them, the japanese kill 900 or so per year.

Thats 0.15%?

Grand.

whay does mainly actually mean? ,where are you gettin youre numbers from?,doe you believe you re sources ,if these figure s are/were correct why was there a ban on the killing of whales in the first place?

The Saint

Well I'm a simple man with a basic understanding of the world. I've also had a fair few pints too.

Anyway, although I think that whaling is an extremely emotive debate, it is one that I struggle with when I really think about it.

As a comparison with commercial farming it seems fundamentally different. It's a natural resource and not commercially produced like farm animals. We largely don't even know about most whales reproductive cycles or even where they breed, therefore, I think it's best to use the precautionary principle when dealing with such issues (if you don't know what's going to happen but there's a chance it might seriously all fuck up, don't do it).

Although breeding farm animals is resource intensive, which is usually not environmentally sustainable, we have control over their breeding cycle and painless method of slughter, unlike a species that is not controlled by our artificial manufacure of products for consumption but by natural processes (which it should be said that we are interferring with). Saying this, whaling, in most circumstances is not economically or commercially sustainable in the long term, even excluding the long term effects.

The Japanese are even trying to generate a demand for whale meat that, in the younger generation, doesn't exist. They are manufacturing demand for something that largely isn't wanted.

Now this is where my conscience comes in. Whaling is an inherently brutal method of harvesting meat. While there have been arguements by whalers that the method of slaughter is painless this largely does not stand up to scrutiny. All other animals are slaughtered quickly and humanely under strict regulations. These don't exist for whales.

However, if there are truely sustainable species of whales that could be harvested in a humane manner, without interferring with the marine ecosystem, then I could not argue. I would be a cultural hypocrite otherwise. I might not like it but c'est la vie.

However, I believe that any whales that are in any way vulnerable, or even below their pre-whaling levels should not be hunted.

Ideally I would prefer not any whales be hunted. I think this might have kinda been coherent. I did have many pints.

dan719

Ddad wrote: »

I did my masters thesis on it. Read the end of the line (google), check out boris Wormhttp://wormlab.biology.dal.ca/ and take it from there. Loads of free info on the web if your interested. Methinks your not up for a debate on it though.:rolleyes: If you are get back to me.

Ever work on a fishing boat? End of the Line is sensationalist rubbish, I'll come back to you this afternoon when I have time to expand on this further. Also I'll direct you to the most recent editions of The Marine Times and The Irish Skipper. Both emphasise how Irish and Scottish fishermen in particular have introduced extremely sustainable methods of fishing. And look, I didn't even have to bring qualifications into it.:rolleyes:

doctor evil

dan719 wrote: »

Edit. Apparently it is possible for whales to become trapped in gillnets. These nets are used mainly for cod and pollock in Ireland and kill the fish by 'drowning it', it catches it's gills on the mesh (hence the name) and cannot breathe. I suppose that with large enough mesh sizes (gaps in net), whales can be killed also.

Just want to make the distinction that whales are mammals and come up for air.

It's the method of killing I have issue with, I don't see harpooning as a quick death.

Kernel

Ddad wrote: »

So, to recap.......the meat is bad, it's not profitable, there are very few of them around and the whole moral question of pursuing a species to the point of extinction hangs in the air. Still seem like a good idea to eat whales?

It depends. What do they taste like?

The Aussie

While we are at it why dont we let the people from that whole region hunt tigers, rhinos and anything else that will give them a bonner to extinction, or we could send Pele over with the Viagra, either or works for me...

Bandit12

100% anti whaling myself. Fair play to them for trying to protect the whales.

GavRedKing

My biggest gripe is wth the Sea Shepherd ship and its crew, you got to reckon that if there was no cameras around they would resort to other tactics then they are "allowed" to use, same can be said for the whale ships.

I think the most laughable thing about it is they can get away with whaling by calling it research and then they have it all over there ships, stupid series but whaling is what the Japanese do, if they have a reasonable quota then I cant see a problem with it, at least you know what they are allowed to catch and "research" and not just go off and kill at will countless numbers of whales.

The_Minister

The Aussie wrote: »

While we are at it why dont we let the people from that whole region hunt tigers, rhinos and anything else that will give them a bonner to extinction, or we could send Pele over with the Viagra, either or works for me...

Not all whales are in danger of extinction. People are only talking about sustainable hunting.