day units meter stopped moving a couple of years ago but ESB only

dublin2000

Hi,

I moved out of my rented apartment and tried to close my ESB a/c, however ESB told me that they just spoted that the day unit meter has broken thus didn't move at all for the last few years. Therefore, they are going to charge me not only the last bill but also whatever was owed in the last couple of years since I moved into the place.

Since its a rented property, different people were in and out of the property, it will be seriously difficulty to get this unexpected large bill shared.

I don't know what should I do.

I think its ESB's responsibility to ensure the meter is working properly not me. Also, they should have spotted the issue when the previous tenant closed their account if the issue existed when they were here.

Also, my ESB bill was about 110 ish every two month during summer and 190ish during winter time. Its only a two bedroom apt. It seems reasonable already and if there were more to be charged, would it be seems too much?

Can anyone suggest?

TouchingVirus

dublin2000 wrote: »

Hi,

I moved out of my rented apartment and tried to close my ESB a/c, however ESB told me that they just spoted that the day unit meter has broken thus didn't move at all for the last few years. Therefore, they are going to charge me not only the last bill but also whatever was owed in the last couple of years since I moved into the place.

Since its a rented property, different people were in and out of the property, it will be seriously difficulty to get this unexpected large bill shared.

I don't know what should I do.

I think its ESB's responsibility to ensure the meter is working properly not me. Also, they should have spotted the issue when the previous tenant closed their account if the issue existed when they were here.

Also, my ESB bill was about 110 ish every two month during summer and 190ish during winter time. Its only a two bedroom apt. It seems reasonable already and if there were more to be charged, would it be seems too much?

Can anyone suggest?

I suggest you ask a mod to move this post to Consumer Issues - It'll get more advice there

dublin2000

TouchingVirus wrote: »

I suggest you ask a mod to move this post to Consumer Issues - It'll get more advice there

Hi There, thanks very much for being the first one reply my post. But I've no idea how to move my post to your advised section. Would you able to tell? Tkx a lot

TouchingVirus

dublin2000 wrote: »

Hi There, thanks very much for being the first one reply my post. But I've no idea how to move my post to your advised section. Would you able to tell? Tkx a lot

No problem.

If you visit the Electrical forum (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1018) where you made this thread and look down the bottom you'll see there are 3 moderators for this forum : delly, Stoner, AlmightyCushion

Click on one of their names, then look for the "Send Message" link under their names on their page, and send a private message to them. Give them a link to this thread (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63286605#post63286605) and ask if they'd be so kind as to move it to Consumer Issues for you - you cannot move threads to other forums as a regular user.

Failing that, I'm sure they'll pop into the forum at some stage, read the thread and move it by using their own discretion

Davy

Dublin2000, i dont see how they can charge you for this. The meter is not your responsibility. Its on your property but you dont own it, nor can you do anything with it legally.

Not only that, they are not going to be able to calculate how much you were using to charge you.

They may say to you, that you should have noticed the bill day units were not changing. But you can say the same thing back to them, they are meant to monitor bills for irregularities. They clearly are just monitoring the bill total as to the actual units.

Can you look up the reading you took from when you first moved in>? Or if you can find your first bill. If the day reading is the same back then, well all the time you haven't been paying for it, but if you can check other bills you could narrow down how long it actually hasnt been recording.

dublin2000

Hi touchingvirus, I followed your suggest steps to request the thread be moved to consumer issues, but got this message - To post new visitor messages in this forum your post count must be 25 or greater. You currently have 2 posts.
Is this means I can't send the message to the mod？

Sorry for constantly asking you questions. Quite new to boards.ie

TouchingVirus wrote: »

No problem.

If you visit the Electrical forum (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1018) where you made this thread and look down the bottom you'll see there are 3 moderators for this forum : delly, Stoner, AlmightyCushion

Click on one of their names, then look for the "Send Message" link under their names on their page, and send a private message to them. Give them a link to this thread (http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63286605#post63286605) and ask if they'd be so kind as to move it to Consumer Issues for you - you cannot move threads to other forums as a regular user.

Failing that, I'm sure they'll pop into the forum at some stage, read the thread and move it by using their own discretion

dublin2000

Hi Davy, that's exactly what I think too, if the meter wasn't working then how do they know how much the bill should be? They must just estimate it and request me to pay it.

And, as I've only rented the place, I never had the key to open the box to see the meter reading.

ESB did say that for what they see the day meter stopped working since 4 years ago ( I only lived there for 2 years though). So my point is that they should spotted the issue a long while ago not just now.

ESB also said exactly what you mentioned below：I should have noticed that the day units haven't change, but I believe most people do the same like me---read the total only.

But the end, if they do send me a exceptionally large bill should I pay it? Obviously, I definitly think it shouldn't be me paying them all anyhow as I was only one of the tenants in the house.

Davy wrote: »

Dublin2000, i dont see how they can charge you for this. The meter is not your responsibility. Its on your property but you dont own it, nor can you do anything with it legally.

Not only that, they are not going to be able to calculate how much you were using to charge you.

They may say to you, that you should have noticed the bill day units were not changing. But you can say the same thing back to them, they are meant to monitor bills for irregularities. They clearly are just monitoring the bill total as to the actual units.

Can you look up the reading you took from when you first moved in>? Or if you can find your first bill. If the day reading is the same back then, well all the time you haven't been paying for it, but if you can check other bills you could narrow down how long it actually hasnt been recording.

TouchingVirus

dublin2000 wrote: »

Hi touchingvirus, I followed your suggest steps to request the thread be moved to consumer issues, but got this message - To post new visitor messages in this forum your post count must be 25 or greater. You currently have 2 posts.
Is this means I can't send the message to the mod？

Sorry for constantly asking you questions. Quite new to boards.ie

Hey dublin2000, you don't want to "Post a visitor message", you want to "Send private message



After you send the mod a private message I'd suggest you hop on over to the Newbies & FAQ forum to get acquainted with boards.ie

On topic while it's here, I completely agree with Davy, the meter is the ESB's responsibility. Unless they can prove the amount of units used between the time it broke and the time it was fixed they can't charge you for it. They can't charge you for any units used when you didn't live in the house either just in case it was broken before then.

dublin2000

Hi TouchingVirus, thanks again for your help. I've sent a private message to Delly to move the topic to Consumer Issues.

Regards to my issue, ESB clearly said to me over the phone that they are going to charge me for whatever it should have been charged for the last two years. So if they do, can I just ignor it as its not reasonable and fair by my understanding.

Again, I agree that ESB simply just monitored the total bill amount rather than the meter reading. Otherwise, how come the bil amount was always a reasonable amount. Like we've been charged about 110 euros average for summer time. If only night units was charged, there is no heating on, no one do washing/cooking after 12am. Where is the units consumed?

I am really anger with ESB.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Hey dublin2000, you don't want to "Post a visitor message", you want to "Send private message



After you send the mod a private message I'd suggest you hop on over to the Newbies & FAQ forum to get acquainted with boards.ie

On topic while it's here, I completely agree with Davy, the meter is the ESB's responsibility. Unless they can prove the amount of units used between the time it broke and the time it was fixed they can't charge you for it. They can't charge you for any units used when you didn't live in the house either just in case it was broken before then.

Hoagy

dublin2000 wrote: »

Again, I agree that ESB simply just monitored the total bill amount rather than the meter reading. Otherwise, how come the bil amount was always a reasonable amount. Like we've been charged about 110 euros average for summer time. If only night units was charged, there is no heating on, no one do washing/cooking after 12am. Where is the units consumed?

What has happened is that you have been paying for all the units used at the lower night rate, because the meter hasn't changed over to the day rate.

The ESB will estimate how many of the units should have been at the day rate and will send you a bill for the difference.

The meter reader should have seen that there was a problem.

dublin2000

So ESB is just going to estimate it. But why should I belive their estimate is correct as if its just an estimate !! As other people said and myself believe it too, it should be the problem of ESB's that they should have noticed it earlier rather than leave it 4 years later. Its their negliance to made my a/c being undercharged when everyone moved out of the apt. Why should I pay it myself then?

Hoagy wrote: »

What has happened is that you have been paying for all the units used at the lower night rate, because the meter hasn't changed over to the day rate.

The ESB will estimate how many of the units should have been at the day rate and will send you a bill for the difference.

The meter reader should have seen that there was a problem.

danjo

dublin2000 wrote: »

can I just ignor it as its not reasonable and fair by my understanding.

The last thing to do is ignore it because it will come back to haunt you.
Imagine the hassle if you have to apply for a new service.
I think they will pursue you anyway for the monies outstanding and it would not look good if you were ignoring it

IMHO if you receive a large bill you should write to them listing all your points listed here and ask them to review your case.
I would avoid phone calls as you will have no record of what was said.
Good luck!

dublin2000

I know it will look bad on me if they do send out a bill to me and if I ignored. But imaging, the bill was always shared amoung flatmates and just because I'm the a/c name then I have to pay this large bill. Would anyone accept this if they were me? Espcially if it come out with a over 1000 euro bill?

danjo wrote: »

The last thing to do is ignore it because it will come back to haunt you.
Imagine the hassle if you have to apply for a new service.
I think they will pursue you anyway for the monies outstanding and it would not look good if you were ignoring it

IMHO if you receive a large bill you should write to them listing all your points listed here and ask them to review your case.
I would avoid phone calls as you will have no record of what was said.
Good luck!

/V\etalfish

I know my issue is not quite the same thing but I was living in a rented apartment for a period of time and had moved into a new place a few months.
I then got a letter saying that there was money outstanding for the period of time that I was not living there.
After an awful lot of back and forths and I think a year later, I got an apology from them and said that they should not have tried to make me pay the outstanding amounts.

There were some other factors in play too; but it boils down to that kind of situation.
So my point is, it's their responsibilty to look after the meter and there's no way that you should be left with any outstanding amounts, especially from a time period when you were not in the house.

If anyone should be made pay (which in this case, I don't think anyone should) it should be the property owner.

Rev. BlueJeans

If people stuck to the simple rule of reading their meters when they enter, and then again when they leave, most of this type of kerfuffle would be easily avoided.

You wouldn't do it with your internet or tv, why would you do it with your electricity?

That said, if the meters had been read on a regular basis, the faulty timeswitch/meter which caused the problem would have come to light much sooner.

Presumably, the meter continued to record on the night dial, all the time, so that will presumably be adjusted down, and the day reading increased to compensate. This will remove some of the grey area in terms of estimation.

To relate to the OP, they should only be held liable for their period of occupancy, but the outstanding monies will need to be paid. Their supplier (if ESBCS), are more amenable than the others when it comes to payment plans etc.

Another problem in relation to meter reads, which doesn't apply to the OP here, but does relate to the problem of estimation, is the policy of other suppliers to apply a flat fee on each bill, and compensate at the end of the year. This will see many people caught out a year into their dealings with their new supplier, if they exceed the estimated usage.

Davy

You might want to contact the CER also:

http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx

Rev. BlueJeans

BTW, if the original meter is still in the premises, there is no "total" reading, there is both day and night readings.

The meter readers are in many cases a weak link in the chain, and if you applied to close the account (ie. disconnection) then the readings may have only come to light now. The last tenant before you may have never requested a disconnection at all, so the meter may have only been accessed now by Networks staff (as opposed to the meter readers, who are contracted, and should call at least once a quarter).

Said last tenant, should also have submitted a reading when they left, meter cabinets aren't exactly hard to open.

dublin2000

ESB customer care actually threathened me that if I'm not happy with the fact that I have to pay the undercharged amount they maynot close my a/c and I'll be responsible for any other bill in later days even if I'm not living there anymore.
Which make me fee so bad.

/V\etalfish wrote: »

I know my issue is not quite the same thing but I was living in a rented apartment for a period of time and had moved into a new place a few months.
I then got a letter saying that there was money outstanding for the period of time that I was not living there.
After an awful lot of back and forths and I think a year later, I got an apology from them and said that they should not have tried to make me pay the outstanding amounts.

There were some other factors in play too; but it boils down to that kind of situation.
So my point is, it's their responsibilty to look after the meter and there's no way that you should be left with any outstanding amounts, especially from a time period when you were not in the house.

If anyone should be made pay (which in this case, I don't think anyone should) it should be the property owner.

Rev. BlueJeans

dublin2000 wrote: »

ESB customer care actually threathen me that if I'm not happy with the fact that I have pay the undercharged amount they maynot close my a/c and I'll be responsible for any bill later even if I'm not living there anymore.
Which make me fee so bad.

AIUI, they will de-energise the premises (well, they'll send a supplier request to Networks to do it), but you'll be held liable for the amount, up to that time. Once you can agree on a start date, then you are liable for what you used, it's that simple. If other people were in and out of the place using energy under your name, then that was a bit of an error on your part unfortunately.

You haven't said how much is outstanding, but if you contact ESBCS, then they can review meter readings and previous bills to clarify matters.

Before you contact the CER, this is your first step:http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/how_to_make_a_complaint.pdf

dublin2000

I don't agree that I have to pay this amount as if its not my responsiblity to ensure the meter is functioning properly and I have paid the amount on the bill everytime.

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

If people stuck to the simple rule of reading their meters when they enter, and then again when they leave, most of this type of kerfuffle would be easily avoided.

You wouldn't do it with your internet or tv, why would you do it with your electricity?

That said, if the meters had been read on a regular basis, the faulty timeswitch/meter which caused the problem would have come to light much sooner.

Presumably, the meter continued to record on the night dial, all the time, so that will presumably be adjusted down, and the day reading increased to compensate. This will remove some of the grey area in terms of estimation.

To relate to the OP, they should only be held liable for their period of occupancy, but the outstanding monies will need to be paid. Their supplier (if ESBCS), are more amenable than the others when it comes to payment plans etc.

Another problem in relation to meter reads, which doesn't apply to the OP here, but does relate to the problem of estimation, is the policy of other suppliers to apply a flat fee on each bill, and compensate at the end of the year. This will see many people caught out a year into their dealings with their new supplier, if they exceed the estimated usage.

Rev. BlueJeans

At the end of the day, the energy was consumed under your name, so, yes you are. Two years of estimated bills is not something I would allow, personally.

It is very rare for a meter to stop recording altogether, as I say it most likely continued merrily spinning away on the night dial, so their estimate should be fairly accurate.

Once you're billed from the date you took occupancy, you have little chance of winning the argument with them. That said;

-the meter should have been read on a more frequent basis by ESB, assuming access was possible.

-you should have submitted a start and end reading during your time there.

-you should follow up any shortfall you now have with your housemates, if you can.

dublin2000

They can't tell yet how much was undercharged as it was roughly 4 years the meter stopped working. Which was well well before I moved in. I don't know in this long time no one in ESB found the issue??? Should they not be accountable for this?

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

AIUI, they will de-energise the premises (well, they'll send a supplier request to Networks to do it), but you'll be held liable for the amount, up to that time. Once you can agree on a start date, then you are liable for what you used, it's that simple. If other people were in and out of the place using energy under your name, then that was a bit of an error on your part unfortunately.

You haven't said how much is outstanding, but if you contact ESBCS, then they can review meter readings and previous bills to clarify matters.

Before you contact the CER, this is your first step:http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/downloads/how_to_make_a_complaint.pdf

Rev. BlueJeans

The meter was obviously not read in that time. That, along with the failure by you and previous tenants to submit readings, is the cause of the problem.

Was there an access problem in relation to the meter, behind a gate, protected by a large dog? If no, then you can make the case that the readings should have been taken at least a half dozen times during your occupancy.

You obviously put your name on the bill at one point, you should not, and won't, be liable for anything before that time, if they have a reading from when you moved in.

davelerave

I thought this was a faulty meter issue?it's common with dual tarriff anyhow.
I understood it was their problem(ESB) assuming no tampering.

TouchingVirus

Rev. BlueJeans wrote: »

The meter was obviously not read in that time. That, along with the failure by you and previous tenants to submit readings, is the cause of the problem.

Was there an access problem in relation to the meter, behind a gate, protected by a large dog? If no, then you can make the case that the readings should have been taken at least a half dozen times during your occupancy.

You obviously put your name on the bill at one point, you should not, and won't, be liable for anything before that time, if they have a reading from when you moved in.

Essentially you're saying that if I moved into a house with a faulty meter and lets say I lived there for a year I'd be liable for the day units used from the time it broke? I'm fairly sure the OP is not liable for the past 4 years worth of day units if they have lived in the premises for less than 4 years, they are only liable for the units consumed after the account was moved into their name, regardless of there being a meter reading at the point of changeover or not. I fail to see how the OP can be liable for energy used before they moved in and really doubt it could be held up in court unless I'm missing something obvious

limklad

dublin2000 wrote: »

They can't tell yet how much was undercharged as it was roughly 4 years the meter stopped working. Which was well well before I moved in. I don't know in this long time no one in ESB found the issue??? Should they not be accountable for this?

First of all you need to read this from Citizen Information.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/energy-and-water-services/electricity_services_in_ireland

http://www.energycustomers.ie/faqs/index.aspx wrote:

ESB Networks are responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of meters and the electricity network for all customers.

Call ESB Networks on 1850 372 757 and they will investigate the situation with the meter, ESB Networks normally aim to read your meter up to 4 times a year.

I recommend you contact ESB Networks with this issue and notify them that ESBCS found the issue after 4 years. Request a written response why the meter was not check for four years as ESBCS is suggesting.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie wrote:

An ESB Networks meter reader calls to your home to read the meter four times a year. When the meter reader fails to gain access to read the meter, he or she leaves a card inviting you to submit your meter reading online or to dial in the reading to a special number CallSave 1850 337 777. (This is an Interactive Voice Response System that is available 24 hours every day.) If a reading is not received within 48 hours, an estimated bill is issued.

Did ESB meter reader leave a note on the door to do the above? Contact you neighbours if they are only getting estimate bills in you area during that time, Did the meter reader leave a note to call in the meter reading?

You are also not alone with meter issues
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055492104

Back to "ESB Customer Supply" ESBCS and with ESBCS customer relations
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/2009/06/22/red-letter-day-for-esb-customers/

If you moved in two years ago and got the account changed to your name and the ESB confirm that it was not working 4 years ago and the meter reader have no read the meter in all that time and now they are trying to charge you now, then you have a good case against them in the complaint
for 2 years since you moved in.
You have Day and Night Rate, then ESBCS should have noticed that meter was not working.

From now on communicate with them with written messages, preferably by email with cc yourself, as you will have verifiable copies with "Delivery Receipt" and "Read Receipt" if possible. Follow the guidelines shown here http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx#6
Confirm from them in writing how they calculate the bill during the duration of you stay in the apartment and get copies of each bill you paid for each month with units and price per unit billing on both Day/night rate at that time, basically you need each bill to try and confirm their estimations for night and day usage. If they refuse keep pressing them for that information.
Under no circumstances should you threaten them, even if threaten by them or ignore the bill. Confirm on each response that you want to resolve this matter as soon as possible

Do not try to negotiate with them on the first/second email/letter that is for Clarification/understanding of the problem.
Negotiate with them your estimate on following responses thereafter.
Make sure you explain the date you moved in if they keep mentioning the four years of non estimate readings if you see that on the bills. The two previous years are not you responsibility (Do not mention this to them until negotiations stage) and get clarification why the ESB meter reader failed to see and read the meter in all of that time or if no note was left to phone in a read from the meter. This will be useful if you need to go to the ombudsman.

What you need to do in the mean time for yourself is to get Wattages of each electrical appliances that are plugged in and estimate running times, refrigerator, Shower, clock radio/TV/video/DVD players (don't forget standby times they are higher than you think), electric heaters, showers, Hoover, kettle/oven/washing machine/drier/ Heating system(motor/pump driven), phone chargers etc.
In your estimation try in both ESB favour and your favour to get an approximate using the initial ESB figures for each billing period.

Most important, Keep all emotive language out of communications and re-explain you case to them at each time as you may be dealing with a different person. If you need to take it further, you will have written evidence of communication of who dealt with your case. If you are not getting anywhere take it further with ESB management, if that fails, try the CER/ombudsman. Make sure you keep all records of Communications.

Your case is over-charging and should be straight forward for the ombudsman to close it out quickly, provided you got copies of the Bills you paid and with ESB estimations for each period. I doubt it very much if you need to get to CER(Commission for Energy Regulation)/ombudsman.

Here is the links for further reading.
http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx (CER) Commission for Energy Regulation
http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/PressReleases/


From http://www.energycustomers.ie/electricity/consumer_codes.aspx#c

Here is ESBCS Customer Charter
http://www.esb.ie/main/energy_home/customer_charter.jsp
above link is not working here is their service guarantees
https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/new_customers/our_service_guarantees.jsp
https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/downloads/coc_charter.pdf


ESB Network customer Charter
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/about_us/customer_charter/customer_charter.jsp

Rev. BlueJeans

davelerave wrote: »

I thought this was a faulty meter issue?it's common with dual tarriff anyhow.
I understood it was their problem(ESB) assuming no tampering.

The meter is their responsibility of course.

I have seen people billed on foot of this very problem, when the night rate continues to rise. They didn't have unread meters for the most part, (although one guy did-poor bugger was unwell, and when the bill for 8 grand came in it didn't help him at all-the previous tenant had banged in a low reading due to a mix up, and the meter reader dropped the ball for two years due to incorrect meter details. Happily he got sorted in the end.)

They may be open to negotiation on the amount, I'm not sure. I'm also not sure what happens if the meter stops altogether and they have to estimate retrospectively.

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Essentially you're saying that if I moved into a house with a faulty meter and lets say I lived there for a year I'd be liable for the day units used from the time it broke? I'm fairly sure the OP is not liable for the past 4 years worth of day units if they have lived in the premises for less than 4 years, they are only liable for the units consumed after the account was moved into their name, regardless of there being a meter reading at the point of changeover or not. I fail to see how the OP can be liable for energy used before they moved in and really doubt it could be held up in court unless I'm missing something obvious

Nope, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying he's liable for what he used while the account was in his name-which isn't the same thing as occupancy in all cases. I said as much in the last few posts tbh.

limklad wrote: »

First of all you need to read this from Citizen Information.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/energy-and-water-services/electricity_services_in_ireland


I recommend you contact ESB Networks with this issue and notify them that ESBCS found the issue after 4 years. Request a written response why the meter was not check for four years as ESBCS is suggesting.

Did ESB meter reader leave a note on the door to do the above? Contact you neighbours if they are only getting estimate bills in you area during that time, Did the meter reader leave a note to call in the meter reading?

<snip>

This is a crucial part of the issue tbh. The ball seems to have been dropped in a big way in relation to the reads, *as with the OP themselves in terms of submitting their start and end reads*.

BTW, worth noting that ESBN have over 2 million meters. Errors are inevitable from time to time. Dealing with them should be a simpler matter for all involved, and the customer has a role in all this too.

dublin2000

Thanks so much limklad for your such detailed help. While, I surely never saw a note left in the letter box from ESB meter reading staff for the entire period. The meter box is behind the apartment as I only new it at the day I moved out my landloard told me this.

I have thrown away all bills when I moved out of the house so is there a way to get a copy of them all from ESB?

I'll definitely follow your suggestion to write them an email about this. Its wired that ESBCS not like others have the call recorded.

limklad wrote: »

First of all you need to read this from Citizen Information.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/consumer-affairs/energy-and-water-services/electricity_services_in_ireland


I recommend you contact ESB Networks with this issue and notify them that ESBCS found the issue after 4 years. Request a written response why the meter was not check for four years as ESBCS is suggesting.

Did ESB meter reader leave a note on the door to do the above? Contact you neighbours if they are only getting estimate bills in you area during that time, Did the meter reader leave a note to call in the meter reading?

You are also not alone with meter issues
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055492104

Back to "ESB Customer Supply" ESBCS and with ESBCS customer relations
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/pricewatch/2009/06/22/red-letter-day-for-esb-customers/

If you moved in two years ago and got the account changed to your name and the ESB confirm that it was not working 4 years ago and the meter reader have no read the meter in all that time and now they are trying to charge you now, then you have a good case against them in the complaint
for 2 years since you moved in.
You have Day and Night Rate, then ESBCS should have noticed that meter was not working.

From now on communicate with them with written messages, preferably by email with cc yourself, as you will have verifiable copies with "Delivery Receipt" and "Read Receipt" if possible. Follow the guidelines shown here http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx#6
Confirm from them in writing how they calculate the bill during the duration of you stay in the apartment and get copies of each bill you paid for each month with units and price per unit billing on both Day/night rate at that time, basically you need each bill to try and confirm their estimations for night and day usage. If they refuse keep pressing them for that information.
Under no circumstances should you threaten them, even if threaten by them or ignore the bill. Confirm on each response that you want to resolve this matter as soon as possible

Do not try to negotiate with them on the first/second email/letter that is for Clarification/understanding of the problem.
Negotiate with them your estimate on following responses thereafter.
Make sure you explain the date you moved in if they keep mentioning the four years of non estimate readings if you see that on the bills. The two previous years are not you responsibility (Do not mention this to them until negotiations stage) and get clarification why the ESB meter reader failed to see and read the meter in all of that time or if no note was left to phone in a read from the meter. This will be useful if you need to go to the ombudsman.

What you need to do in the mean time for yourself is to get Wattages of each electrical appliances that are plugged in and estimate running times, refrigerator, Shower, clock radio/TV/video/DVD players (don't forget standby times they are higher than you think), electric heaters, showers, Hoover, kettle/oven/washing machine/drier/ Heating system(motor/pump driven), phone chargers etc.
In your estimation try in both ESB favour and your favour to get an approximate using the initial ESB figures for each billing period.

Most important, Keep all emotive language out of communications and re-explain you case to them at each time as you may be dealing with a different person. If you need to take it further, you will have written evidence of communication of who dealt with your case. If you are not getting anywhere take it further with ESB management, if that fails, try the CER/ombudsman. Make sure you keep all records of Communications.

Your case is over-charging and should be straight forward for the ombudsman to close it out quickly, provided you got copies of the Bills you paid and with ESB estimations for each period. I doubt it very much if you need to get to CER(Commission for Energy Regulation)/ombudsman.

Here is the links for further reading.
http://www.energycustomers.ie/complaints/index.aspx (CER) Commission for Energy Regulation
http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie

http://www.ombudsman.gov.ie/en/PressReleases/


From http://www.energycustomers.ie/electricity/consumer_codes.aspx#c

Here is ESBCS Customer Charter
http://www.esb.ie/main/energy_home/customer_charter.jsp
above link is not working here is their service guarantees
https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/new_customers/our_service_guarantees.jsp
https://www.esb.ie/esbcustomersupply/residential/downloads/coc_charter.pdf


ESB Network customer Charter
http://www.esb.ie/esbnetworks/about_us/customer_charter/customer_charter.jsp

delly

Thread moved at OP's request.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Bottom line is the Op used the juice and it has to be paid for. ESB will estimate (and such estimates are usually very accurate) the additional amount due for his period of occupancy. They have an element of responsibility as the meter reading should have shown some problems - although only the occupant knows what's going on in any single premises. They will probably strike a deal on the amount due and will give payment arrangements. This problem would exist no matter which supplier the OP was with, only ESBCS are more likely to make a deal and collect the money over a period. If this is not sorted the OP will have problems getting supply anywhere else.

Talk to ESB. Get a figure. Agree an amount and agree payment terms.

ch750536

In my opinion it is not the consumer or supplier at fault here, it is the network.

As an aside, I jave a 4 bedroom single storey, work from home so house has 4 PC's running most of the time.

€50 a month on leccy.

So the amount you are paying is very high already, perhaps this is worth pointing out. If the meter is faulty for the day units maybe its charging 10* the number of night units, perhaps they owe you money.

dudara

OP, the ESB do know the amount of electricity used - it was just recorded on the night meter as opposed to day meter. They will have to recalculate the electricity used during the occupancy.

Your ESB bills seem very high, and doubly more so for someone who is being charged a night time rate.

I agree that the onus is on the ESB to resolve this for you in a fair manner, as they are ultimately responsible for the meters but in fairness, you should have been checking the meter yourself occasionally to ensure that you were being billed the correct amount.

dilallio

I agree with dudara here - your night readings are very high.

It would be useful to verify that both your day and night supply is not connected in error to your night meter.

You will be able to do this by switching on a number of high wattage appliances (during the day) such as immersion, heaters, kettle, etc, and running out and physically check the night meter to see if the little wheel is spinning around. If it is, then you will have been over-paying for your night supply, and the ESB will have to take this into account by reducing your bill.