Waterford Town

abouttobebanned

This, is what I wished we were called.

We are not benefiting in anyway by being a "city" and by being compared to the likes of Cork, Galway and Dublin. These are proper cities in my opinion and let me tell you why. (I have never been to Limerick in my adult years so can't say much about it)

Diversity is accepted and encouraged. No matter what your interests are, you'll find something to suit your tastes in one of these cities. Take the night club industry for a second - if you like techno, house, grunge, rock, hip hop, charts...you'll have a home in Galway, Dublin and Cork. In Waterford, we have specialist house places and then every other place is commercial. People in waterford say that they want diversity, but they don't actually support it if someone has a go at facilitating them.

The Spraoi is one of Waterford's most important resources...so much so that it's recognised as being so by the other cities and they are constantly trying to use their skills to enrich their own city-centres. We take it for granted though...each year they try and raise some money to keep their efforts going, and each year I'm told their pleas fall on deaf ears.

Take a look at this
http://www.tntmagazine.com/travel/destinations/europe/ireland/feature/Around-the-towns.aspx

An international view of the top five cities in Ireland. Waterford, rightfully, is not there.

To me, a "city" that dies at 5:30 in the afternoon is not a city at all.

If it wasn't for students (and they're not going out much anymore either) the town would be dead midweek. The weekends are starting to die as well.

People will blame the pubs and clubs for not offering enough or being too expensive...believe me, if they thought people would come out to see it they'd put on whatever you want. And even the city-centre pubs are doing what they can to decrease the price of drinks, although there are a few that could really do a lot more. (but that's a conversation for another time)

Is waterford suffering from the recession more than other places? To me it looks like they are. I think that there are people living in WAterford that have the enthusiasm, foresight and creativity to make exciting things happen but do you know why they don't? You guessed it, it would be wasted on the people of Waterford who seem to spend all their time giving out about their own homeplace instead of helping to make it better, helping to make it a worthy "city".

Right now, at this moment in time I think Kilkenny is more worthy of the title "city" than we are.

Mossy Monk

Do the buses still not run on a Sunday? That for me is ridiculous.

Adyx

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Do the buses still not run on a Sunday? That for me is ridiculous.

Only the Tramore bus runs on Sundays. Although wasn't there a Sunday service put on this time last year?

AdMMM

While I agree that a lot of Waterford people think that we are simply a glorified town, it's an attitude we simply cannot be seen to be publicly adapting. Despite our shortcomings as a city (of which there are countless amounts), we need to join together and figure out how to promote Waterford in the best way possible. A negative outlook will only drag Waterford further into the dregs.

What kills me is that there's only one pub in Waterford City Centre (The Gingerman). I can think of no other town or city in Ireland where this is the case with the vast majority having a combination of pubs, cafes and shops on all their main streets. Whether we like it or not, pubs are the centre of Irish culture and a sure way of keeping people in the CBD after business hours.

Should Egans or The Stand still be open, Waterford would be a completely different city at night i.e. it'd have people in it. While I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding the closure of The Stand, I know that Egans was still making more money than most other pubs in Waterford when it closed. The temptation of a multi-million euro offer was too much to ignore especially considering the widespread, and in hindsight false, belief that the smoking ban was going to decimate the licensed trade

gscully

AdMMM wrote: »

While I agree that a lot of Waterford people think that we are simply a glorified town, it's an attitude we simply cannot be seen to be publicly adapting. Despite our shortcomings as a city (of which there are countless amounts), we need to join together and figure out how to promote Waterford in the best way possible. A negative outlook will only drag Waterford further into the dregs.

What kills me is that there's only one pub in Waterford City Centre (The Gingerman). I can think of no other town or city in Ireland where this is the case with the vast majority having a combination of pubs, cafes and shops on all their main streets. Whether we like it or not, pubs are the centre of Irish culture and a sure way of keeping people in the CBD after business hours.

Should Egans or The Stand still be open, Waterford would be a completely different city at night i.e. it'd have people in it. While I'm not sure of the circumstances surrounding the closure of The Stand, I know that Egans was still making more money than most other pubs in Waterford when it closed. The temptation of a multi-million euro offer was too much to ignore especially considering the widespread, and in hindsight false, belief that the smoking ban was going to decimate the licensed trade

Fully agree with the OP, but also with you! However, what can WE do about it?

The city centre is Waterford's biggest flaw, and not just for the lack of pubs. John Roberts Square should be the biggest catchment area of footfall, but what shops in that square would attract you? Can you honestly say that you could do all of your Christmas shopping there? In other cities, the main street is full of attractive shops. We have a decent stretch of street, light in traffic, from Michael St to the Apple Market, but no shops worth going into. That whole main area from the sqaure up is flooded with mobile phones shops, fast food takeaways and shoe shops!

Egans and the Stand are sorely missed alright. You still have that pub across from the Stand, but does it do any business?

There's just nothing to attract people to the city centre, and that is sad.

Woodgate

gscully wrote: »

You still have that pub across from the Stand

No you don't, no pub across from the Stand, DaVinci's is closed for ages, well over a year prob 2 years

abouttobebanned

And at the moment the pub industry is probably something that only a mad man would want to get into, in this town anyway.

I'm proud to be a waterfordian by the way, I'm just not happy with how things are at the moment.

LETS BE AVN IT

Great OP by the way! Its very sad to see how the city has been dying over the last 18 months or so! Its mad to think nearly every night spot in town is 60 seconds from each other it would be great to think the city could spread out more and have pubs and clubs spreading from o connell st to johns st but its hard to see that happening.

foxylad

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Take a look at this
http://www.tntmagazine.com/travel/destinations/europe/ireland/feature/Around-the-towns.aspx

An international view of the top five cities in Ireland. Waterford, rightfully, is not there.

is it possible to do a write up on Waterford City and post it on all these web sites -
we surely have
Reginalds Tower
The Quays
New Waterfrod Crystal Coming Soon
Old City Walls & Beach Towers
2 Cathedrals
Georgian Architecture on the Mall
Blackfriars & Greyfriars
Theatre Royal, City Hall, Bishops Palace
Waterford Treasures @ The Granary
t&h Doolans for Irish Music
Clock Tower
Longest Quays in Europe
Edmond Rice international Heritage Centre
the award winning Walking tour

im sure there is loads more

i know there is a "focus group" looking at all
the historic sites around Ballybricken too

we should be shouting our history from the rooftops
and making the general public aware of it

abouttobebanned

foxylad wrote: »

is it possible to do a write up on Waterford City and post it on all these web sites -
we surely have
Reginalds Tower
The Quays
New Waterfrod Crystal Coming Soon
Old City Walls & Beach Towers
2 Cathedrals
Georgian Architecture on the Mall
Blackfriars & Greyfriars
Theatre Royal, City Hall, Bishops Palace
Waterford Treasures @ The Granary
t&h Doolans for Irish Music
Clock Tower
Longest Quays in Europe
Edmond Rice international Heritage Centre
the award winning Walking tour

im sure there is loads more

i know there is a "focus group" looking at all
the historic sites around Ballybricken too

we should be shouting our history from the rooftops
and making the general public aware of it

These are all fine, but they have very limited appeal to the local people of waterford. For the most part my rant was aimed at the people of waterford who I don't think do enough to promote their city. The lack of city centre entertainment is a huge problem though.

foxylad

we need tourists - thus we need people aware of what the city has to offer - and promote our city - see it in a good light

all the entertainment is there - people just dont support it
there are bands playing in the city 7 nights a week -
sometimes to 10 or 12 people
there is art exhibitions, theatre, comedy, festivals, poetry readings, book clubs, film screenings ----where is waterfords 55,000 people who say there is nothing on - when only a hand full of people turn up to events

i sat in a city centre bar one sunday afternoon watching a soccer match - 3 asian tourists asked what is there to do in Waterford today - a customer turn to them and said "sure Rubys isnt open till 11 o clock" !

Sully

This thread has given me an idea.

Hrmm...

Bards

... our City Council doesn't do enough to help promote the city that's for sure, in fact they go out of their way to denigrate the City. Look what they have done with the City Arms. Most towns/cities around the World would give their right arm (no pun intended) for a coat of arms with the history like ours, but what does our esteemed City Council do to years of tradition - throw it in the bin and replace it with a modern swish with four straight lines to resemble the new Bridge

Just look at any of their official signage and you can see what I mean


please please please bring back the coat of arms

dazftw

Two things ive said before in the last thread there was about this:


1. Better seating in red square including tables for people to eat there during the day.

2. Shops/cafes stay open til 9 every night like Thursday and Friday or even later if that was possible.

I feel if shops/cafes stay open til late, they would have to hire more staff and that would create more jobs. You could say that they wouldn't make any money becuase no one would be in town but I think if enough places did it, there would be an increase of people coming into town after word has spread. I for one would stay in later.

Psychedelic

AdMMM wrote: »

A negative outlook will only drag Waterford further into the dregs.

Then why are you and others continuing to promote this negativity and praise Kilkenny?

AdMMM wrote: »

What kills me is that there's only one pub in Waterford City Centre (The Gingerman).

WTF!!! Pubs in the city centre (from http://www.ciddytours.com/):

AdMMM wrote: »

In Waterford, we have specialist house places and then every other place is commercial. People in waterford say that they want diversity, but they don't actually support it if someone has a go at facilitating them.

House and techno nights on every weekend, usually both Friday and Saturday nights in Electric Avenue, fairly well attended any time I've been in there. Other styles of music there and in Ryan's Bar and even the Wacky Apple have house & techno DJs playing tomorrow night.

You guessed it, it would be wasted on the people of Waterford who seem to spend all their time giving out about their own homeplace instead of helping to make it better, helping to make it a worthy "city".

what, people like you?

Right now, at this moment in time I think Kilkenny is more worthy of the title "city" than we are.

But Kilkenny isn't a city. What's better about Kilkenny though, really? Do they have more shops? I'm not sure but I don't think so. Do they have Spraoi? Do they have a facility like the Theatre Royal? Where's their house & techno clubs?

gscully wrote: »

There's just nothing to attract people to the city centre, and that is sad.

there is plenty to attract people in to the city centre. pubs, clubs, cinema, theatres, comedy clubs....what do you want?

Bears and Vodka

foxylad wrote: »

is it possible to do a write up on Waterford City and post it on all these web sites -
we surely have
Reginalds Tower
The Quays
New Waterfrod Crystal Coming Soon
Old City Walls & Beach Towers
2 Cathedrals
Georgian Architecture on the Mall
Blackfriars & Greyfriars
Theatre Royal, City Hall, Bishops Palace
Waterford Treasures @ The Granary
t&h Doolans for Irish Music
Clock Tower
Longest Quays in Europe
Edmond Rice international Heritage Centre
the award winning Walking tour

im sure there is loads more

i know there is a "focus group" looking at all
the historic sites around Ballybricken too

we should be shouting our history from the rooftops
and making the general public aware of it

oh you forgot the Forum ))

AdMMM

WTF!!! Pubs in the city centre

I wouldn't call a lot of those pubs "City Centre". I did forget T.H Doolans though. As I said in my original post, most towns and cities have married their cafe/drink culture with their shopping culture with a fine selection of cafes, pubs and shops on their main streets. There's not many pubs in Waterford that you just happen across on your way from A-B and you have to go looking for them. I also didn't include any of the pubs on the Quay because I'd consider it to be quite out of the way, or any of the hotel bars because if we start recommending hotel bars as the creme de la creme of public houses in Waterford, we're really in a sad state of affairs. Anywhere else I'd consider to be outside of the CBD.

Then why are you and others continuing to promote this negativity and praise Kilkenny?

Quite simply because in a honest thread which is inviting introspective opinions of the City, I'm not going to put on the rose tinted glasses and say we're great. I'd hardly call Boards.ie to be go-to guide for prospective tourists so I feel I can speak with some kind of honesty here rather than put my head in the sand and convince myself that there's nothing wrong with the City.

nkay1985

I was only discussing this with my fiancée yesterday.

The way I see it, you have to attract two groups: other Irish people and international tourists.

The way you attract other Irish people is by having a good shopping setup and a decent nightlife.

The issues with the KRM development have really held us up. If that had gone ahead when it was supposed to, the whole Michael Street area would be a proper attraction for out of town shoppers. It got delayed and when it's finally been given the go-ahead we're smack bang in the middle of a recession; there couldn't be a worse time to open a shopping and leisure complex!
So, now we're left with Michael Street having lots of empty and/or run down shops that serves as the no-man's land between Waterford by day (City Square and Red Square) and Waterford by night (John's Street area). That's one issue.


On the issue with tourists, Flash has pointed out some great aspects about our city. There are few places in the world with the kind of history our city has. We're steeped in it and the likes of the city walls and Reginald's Tower are in great shape considering their age. The Granary is an award-winning museum.

The only issue now is getting the word out there internationally. I think this fact has been recognised. It should have been long ago, but better late than never. The Government realise that we're no longer going to be making our money from high-volume manufacturing and the like so tourism is our next best thing. I think Discover Ireland and initiatives like this have sprung up in the last couple of years and our Tourism Board are putting a big push on internationally. It's up to our city planners to make sure we're well-placed to take advantage of any surge in tourism figures that may come once the recession passes.


I wonder does our city council have something along the lines of a 'Tourism Plan'? The public are able to pose questions to the council, aren't they?

What are the city's plans for attracting more visitors in the coming years?
It would be an interesting one to ask, wouldn't it?

foxylad

nkay1985 wrote: »

What are the city's plans for attracting more visitors in the coming years?
It would be an interesting one to ask, wouldn't it?

there is a "tourism meeting" next week to brainstorm ideas -
but Waterford Crystal in the old ESB offices and bolton st should bring tourists to the city centre
what we need now is make the public and front line retail staff aware of our heritage and clean up our sity centre - remove grafitti, paint shops, sidy up empty ones - and keep our city clean & tidy!

chrism2007

i dont bother going into town anymore for one simple reason. the Parking

absolute joke that the council havent brought in a free parking solution for people to just pop into town and have a look around without knowing what there going to buy.

i used to go in every weekend and spend hundreds on random purchases. whatever took my fancy at the time.

now, although i have the same amount of money, prefer to go somewhere that wont charge me for the pleasure.

id have buses running into town 7 days a week, free of charge, every 10 minutes. the bigger shops could maybe help out with the running costs.

that would give the city a big boost in my opinion when everyones counting there cents

if i need anything for the car il go to halfords instead of into the irish shops in town

if i need clothes ill go to tkmaxx and as a last resort go into town

if i need electronics ill go straight to kelly and dollard rather than into town

etc etc...

these shops are always busy, so people obviously think the same way as me

fricatus

chrism2007 wrote: »

i dont bother going into town anymore for one simple reason. the Parking [...] now, although i have the same amount of money, prefer to go somewhere that wont charge me for the pleasure [...] these shops are always busy, so people obviously think the same way as me

That's exactly the problem. Parking charges are a disincentive to go into the city centre, just as the N25 toll is a disincentive to use the new bridge.

What we need is a free N25, a congestion charge in the city centre and (free) park and ride sites on the outskirts to bring people into town.

As for the OP's earlier mention of Kilkenny, don't get me wrong, it's a fine city with lots of nice shops, particularly the little boutiques, but you're looking at it through rose-tinted specs if you think we have more problems than they do.

Carlow and Newbridge are taking shoppers away in their droves, and Waterford will too if it gets its act together (especially given the new motorway). They don't even have a Tesco (somthing which really rankles with them), and while there was talk of getting M&S into the Citymart development, that's about as likely as the Shannon basin being drained at this stage.

Add to that that McDonagh Junction is suffering from serious footfall and tenancy issues, and there are no pedestrianised streets, and I know which city I would prefer to be in charge of.

gscully

Psychedelic wrote: »

there is plenty to attract people in to the city centre. pubs, clubs, cinema, theatres, comedy clubs....what do you want?

You're talking purely about nightlife! My point was that in the city centre, which happens to be John Roberts Sq area, there is nothing to attract people. Very few decent shops.

If you want to continue the nightlife point, there's only two pubs in that area, NO CINEMA, no clubs etc. That's the city centre, and it's dead at night.

chrism2007

fricatus wrote: »

That's exactly the problem. Parking charges are a disincentive to go into the city centre, just as the N25 toll is a disincentive to use the new bridge.

What we need is a free N25, a congestion charge in the city centre and (free) park and ride sites on the outskirts to bring people into town.

imagine if that parking space beside tesco poleberry had a system where you could get free parking for 3 hours, then 5 euro an hour after to stop people parking there and going to work.

might be a quicker solution than park and ride systems

if its council land that is

Psychedelic

There is no free parking in any of the other cities, so why should Waterford be different, if in fact in wants to be a city, which was what the original post was about. "Oh we want to be a city but don't want to pay for parking like in every other city"....as far as I know Waterford is the cheapest city for parking. It's only €3.60 per day in Millers Marsh car park and €4 per day in the Aldi car park at the moment - is that supposed to be expensive?!!!

Free park & ride is a very good idea though. It was used for the Tall Ships and should have been built upon.

i used to go in every weekend and spend hundreds on random purchases.

so you'd gladly spend hundreds on random purchases but not a measely few euro on parking?

Quite simply because in a honest thread which is inviting introspective opinions of the City, I'm not going to put on the rose tinted glasses and say we're great. I'd hardly call Boards.ie to be go-to guide for prospective tourists so I feel I can speak with some kind of honesty here rather than put my head in the sand and convince myself that there's nothing wrong with the City.

Yeah we've had dozens of these threads about the 'dying city centre' so it's not like we all don't know about the problems and are in denial about them. There are positive things happening and those things should be given as much if not more attention.

You're talking purely about nightlife! My point was that in the city centre, which happens to be John Roberts Sq area, there is nothing to attract people. Very few decent shops.

Well that was what the original post was about, city is dead after 5.30 i.e. no night life. But yes you're right about there being nothing in John Roberts Square.

chrism2007

Psychedelic wrote: »

so you'd gladly spend hundreds on random purchases but not a measely few euro on parking?

yes.

why pay to park when i can go somewhere else and get it for free.

youd rather pay for something you could get for free?

chrism2007

chrism2007 wrote: »

yes.

why pay to park when i can go somewhere else and get it for free.

youd rather pay for something you could get for free?

in fact some might say the government is missing out on hundreds of tax euros from me because they wont implement a free parking system :pac:

but im the bad one in this because i dont like paying for something i can get for free elsewhere

foxylad

chrism2007 wrote: »

but im the bad one in this because i dont like paying for something i can get for free elsewhere

would FREE parking in the city make that much difference?
or would the hundread of retail staff just jump on them -
leaving none for the general public?

i think the exodus of all the office to the perimiter of the city and dampened the footfall -
there used to be a case of all car parks being full - i havent seen that in the last few years - even on Saturdays!

chrism2007

foxylad wrote: »

would FREE parking in the city make that much difference?
or would the hundread of retail staff just jump on them -
leaving none for the general public?

i think the exodus of all the office to the perimiter of the city and dampened the footfall -
there used to be a case of all car parks being full - i havent seen that in the last few years - even on Saturdays!

as ive said already free parking for 2-3 hours then 5 euro an hour after to eliminate that problem

put in one of those ticket systems like they have on the quay on the car park beside tesco poleberry

Bards

chrism2007 wrote: »

as ive said already free parking for 2-3 hours then 5 euro an hour after to eliminate that problem

put in one of those ticket systems like they have on the quay on the car park beside tesco poleberry

all that would happen is people would move their cars after 3 hours to another car park and park there for free for another 3 hours and so on

Park and Ride is the best solution - there should be a number of big car parks on the approaches to the City (West, North and East) with buses going every 10 to 15 minutes during peak hours and every 30 mins during off peak

chrism2007

Bards wrote: »

all that would happen is people would move their cars after 3 hours to another car park and park there for free for another 3 hours and so on

Park and Ride is the best solution - there should be a number of big car parks on the approaches to the City (West, North and East) with buses going every 10 to 15 minutes during peak hours and every 30 mins during off peak

so every day everyone will leave work every 2-3 hours to move there cars?

although i do agree with the park and ride. so simple yet it could be so effective

back in the days when i had no car i used to walk everywhere as the bus system was a joke. 3 years later theres still no buses on a sunday

justin007

Actually also waterford as a fifth largest city in ireland， but never feel like a city， such as city center where does not have enough modern buildings or fashion shops that people can go 。 Waterford City Council people shoud be go out and visit other city。 Pay more attetion on how to develop waterford become a good city in ireland。 Waterford has not been a big changed in the recent years 。 Also we look forward to seeing a new waterford in the future。

justin007

Actually also waterford as a fifth largest city in ireland， but never feel like a city， such as city center where does not have enough modern buildings or fashion shops that people can go 。 Waterford City Council people shoud be go out and visit other city。 Pay more attetion on how to develop waterford become a good city in ireland。 Waterford has not been a big changed in the recent years 。 Also we look forward to seeing a new waterford in the future。

googlefan

Free parking in parts of Dublin city centre after 2pm Thurs-Sunday for the Christmas period.

rude awakening

for starters we need a HMV cos we only have two music stores in the city so not much competition there. and what happened to talks of making the old cinema a night club? have they died down

abouttobebanned

rude awakening wrote: »

for starters we need a HMV cos we only have two music stores in the city so not much competition there. and what happened to talks of making the old cinema a night club? have they died down

Sure hardly anyone visits the night clubs we have at the moment, don't think we need another.

rude awakening

abouttobebanned wrote: »

Sure hardly anyone visits the night clubs we have at the moment, don't think we need another.

doesn’t necessarily have to be a night club, just saying that was the rumor at the time, all they have to do is change it into something that will bring more people into the town, u know like Brown Thomas, HMV itself even, there’s already a restaurant in Patrick street so no point in putting another there

chrism2007

if i heard it right on the telly this morning they were saying how Cork and Dublin have brought in free parking

they were saying that Waterford, although a good place to shop is doing nothing to attract shoppers

spaceylou

I've read over what everyone else has said and while I agree with the general theme of what is being said there were one or two things I feel the need to stick my two cents worth in about.....

1. Parking: maybe this is because i spent the last few years living in dublin and abroad but to pay for parking seems totally natural to me, its not that expensive, and because it deters people from abandoning their cars for the entire day in certain areas (people working can use millers marsh etc for the full day) I can almost always get parking close to where the shops are.

Now maybe to encourage shopping in the run up to christmas, more could be done than making parking half-price in the mornings mon - fri but surely we want the city/town to be alive all year round so this would only be a short-term solution - if indeed the lack of free parking is a problem at all.

2. Whether we are called a city or a town is pretty irrelevant - its only a name, and even Dublin 'our big city', would be considered a large town in some countries.

3. People seem to have honed in on the lack of nightlife and I know that the pub is a big part of irish culture but by saying that, and not accepting that there is a need for something more than pubs, we fail to cater for people (irish or otherwise) who would rather not have their social life revolve around the pub. We need more cafes, and I don't mean more chain type stores with passable coffee that close at 6pm, I mean cafes that do decent coffee, teas etc, have an atmosphere, good affordable food - no matter if you are looking for a snack or a meal, and we need to support the ones we do have, otherwise no where new will open.

4. We really really really need to promote what we have. The waterford today, for example, which I am guessing makes all of its revenue from ads seen as it is delivered free around the city always seems to be full of ads for events that are booked out, or already took place. And I do tend to read it the day its delievered so its is not that I am leaving it too late to read it! And that is just one example of how we don't promote events. The arts festival was on back in october, and while I know most of the events were well attended, the amount of people who didn't know it was on, was astounding. Even if they weren't intersted, they should have been able to tell other people that it was on.

Okay, this post is longer than i intended, but we (as the citizens of waterford) need to take pride in our city/town and promote what we have, rather than laying the blame for the slow painful death of the cbd at 'other' peoples feet, and we need to realise that having a 'hmv' or an 'M&S' or a pub where The Stand used to be won't solve our woes, nor will free parking.

Bards

..what really gets on my nerve is Waterford Poeple talking down our CITY and that lobster attitude of draggin everyone down to their level

you would not find a Kilkenny person referring to their city as a town

If we're not going to promote our City how can we expect others to do it for us

Green Hornet

Bards wrote: »

..what really gets on my nerve is Waterford Poeple talking down our CITY and that lobster attitude of draggin everyone down to their level

you would not find a Kilkenny person referring to their city as a town

If we're not going to promote our City how can we expect others to do it for us

Sorry if it offends Bards but I think most people outside of Waterford do regard Waterford as a town. Same goes for Kilkenny for that matter.

Bards

Green Hornet wrote: »

Sorry if it offends Bards but I think most people outside of Waterford do regard Waterford as a town. Same goes for Kilkenny for that matter.

... where are your facts to back this up....

who do you call "Most People"????

Dubs perhaps, who think that anything outseide the Pale is - "down the country"

or are these the same people when Galway was smaller than Waterford still regarded Galway as a CITY????

road_high

Waterford city on RTE news there, re budget day.

merlante

The only thing that holds Waterford back is Waterford people. Waterford people, by and large, are a fairly miserable do-nothing, whinging bunch. Sad to say as a Waterford man, but it's true.

Evidence:
1. There is plenty of nightlife, but Waterford people would rather die than support it. They weren't out in town in 2 years, but they're sure there's nothing there anyway. But didn't we have a great laugh in place X? I suppose... You won't pay Bub Twaddy's prices, well why don't you go to place Y? Ah, I'd never go in there boy. Is that place not closed down?

2. People who live outside the centre don't come in anymore, they don't realise that new businesses are opening all the time on O'Connell st and the Quay,etc. They don't know about Berfranks on the Quay, haven't realised there's a new Londis on the Quay/O'Connell st., barely aware that the Theatre Royal has even been done up, let alone that it has a cafe open inside it, Lemon Grass. They probably don't realise that practically every weekend there is something going on in the city centre, whether it's a food festival or something else. Sure there's no restaurants in Waterford boy. Despite the fact we have a restaurants quarter on High st. There's no pubs in the city centre. There are a ton of pubs in the city centre, just not in the 100m radius of the cross... except the (nearly) the Tap room, the Gingerman, and T&H's. What about the fact that Waterford has a nightlife centre? So what if there isin't a pub beside Penneys.

3. There's no parking in Waterford and it's too expensive. There is always parking in Waterford and it's relatively cheap, it's just you've been living out on the Dunmore rd. too long and want a big dirty free car park outside every building, ala Tesco Ardkeen. (Why not learn to parallel park?)

4. Whenever an apartment building is/was built in Waterford, it's going to be a slum. Thank god for 'slums' that house people like students and migrants, because they've breathed life back into the city centre that the natives are incapable of doing. The scales in the Spirit gym is more often set to kilograms than stone and lbs -- that gives me some hope for Waterford, that maybe the negativity will be bred out of us, by groups of people that actually open businesses and take risks.

If people would just stop whinging and actually take part in what's going on, there would be no problem. There was never such a bunch of people in history to point the finger at everyone except themselves. They complain there's nothing and when you point out what's there, they turn up their nose like they wouldn't **** on it. If it was in Galway it would be the dog's bollocks of course. The biggest pack of begrudgers in a pretty begrudging country. The sort of people who'd boycott your business and tarnish a person's name just for trying to make something of themselves. But maybe the place is just too inbred and corrupt to wish people well, but I'd rather be optimistic.

I challenge all the whingers to come into town next weekend, buy a coffee and a sandwich, and look in a few shops. If enough of ye did it, it would make a difference. But it'll be more of the same, "sure why would I go in there boy, it's a dirty **** hole with no shops?" Fair enough, **** off to Kilkenny with you then, they need the population.

AdMMM

2. People who live outside the centre don't come in anymore, they don't realise that new businesses are opening all the time on O'Connell st and the Quay,etc. They don't know about Berfranks on the Quay, haven't realised there's a new Londis on the Quay/O'Connell st., barely aware that the Theatre Royal has even been done up, let alone that it has a cafe open inside it, Lemon Grass. They probably don't realise that practically every weekend there is something going on in the city centre, whether it's a food festival or something else. Sure there's no restaurants in Waterford boy. Despite the fact we have a restaurants quarter on High st.

If that's the case then they're being marketed in an entirely incompetent way. If a business hasn't the basic sense to try appeal to it's audience, then it deserves to fail. I'm not going to wander down streets in my spare time looking for new shops or give them my custom if they aren't bothered trying to reach out to me, or whoever their target market is. Ploughing your redundancy money into a business may be admirable and courageous in these times but neglecting to advertise properly is foolish. A simple rule in marketing is that it's easier to cater towards attitudes rather than attempt to change them.

There's no pubs in the city centre. There are a ton of pubs in the city centre, just not in the 100m radius of the cross... except the (nearly) the Tap room, the Gingerman, and T&H's. What about the fact that Waterford has a nightlife centre? So what if there isin't a pub beside Penneys

Waterford is certainly well catered for in terms of night life (for the sake of convenience lets call that 11pm-2am) but is woefully deficient when it comes to evening life (6pm-11pm). There is simply no reason for people to stay in the city centre during these evening hours.

merlante

AdMMM wrote: »

If that's the case then they're being marketed in an entirely incompetent way. If a business hasn't the basic sense to try appeal to it's audience, then it deserves to fail. I'm not going to wander down streets in my spare time looking for new shops or give them my custom if they aren't bothered trying to reach out to me, or whoever their target market is. Ploughing your redundancy money into a business may be admirable and courageous in these times but neglecting to advertise properly is foolish. A simple rule in marketing is that it's easier to cater towards attitudes rather than attempt to change them.

It's not about marketing, can you honestly say that businesses aren't marketing themselves adequately? Can you say that if they were that people would necessarily come in and find them? I doubt they would.

In other places, people automatically go into town whenever they want to buy, eat, drink, etc., but not in Waterford. Often the people who are would-be business owners, many of them, don't like the city centre either, and simply don't believe that business can be done after 6pm.

There is a low level of life in the centre from 5.30pm onwards, but if you're not familiar with the centre, you might not know what's going on. The fact is, people coming in from the likes of the Dunmore rd. have a picture of Waterford from 2002 or something. A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

The city centre is surviving on the 10,000 people who live there, not the 40,000 people that live outside of it. I personally think we'd be better off building the city around the people who actually care about it than the people who go to the Uluru every week and bitch about the centre and parking incessantly. (Unfortunately, it's not the wealthy 10,000 that live there.)

And by the way, Berfranks, by way of example, is probably the best cafe in Waterford and is doing a roaring trade. City centre businesses tend to rely on a thing called footfall. When you have to market businesses that have prominent street fronts, there is something very very wrong. What kind of city centre has no passing trade? Luckily, the centre is not quite that bad.

AdMMM wrote: »

Waterford is certainly well catered for in terms of night life (for the sake of convenience lets call that 11pm-2am) but is woefully deficient when it comes to evening life (6pm-11pm). There is simply no reason for people to stay in the city centre during these evening hours.

There are a few places open and it could be a lot better, and indeed in the 90's it was a lot better. We had three cafes opening until well after midnight: Luna, Global Village and Sizzlers. But it's a two way street. The 'money' has left the city centre for the lush pastures of the Dunmore rd., and the suburbs in general. The centre will have a renaissance at some point, but attitudes have to change. I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

AdMMM

It's not about marketing, can you honestly say that businesses aren't marketing themselves adequately

A lot of it is about poor marketing. I live very close to the City Centre myself but I had no idea about the new restaurants opening along O'Connell St, or of the cafe you mentioned on the Quay. Both of those areas don't have enough footfall to allow them to ignore advertising. Advertising and marketing needs to be a bit more innovative than putting a small advert in the Waterford Today every week, especially during these times.

A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

This is a case of the business failing to communicate a message. I think it's wrong of you to blame the people for not realising there's a change in owner, name or both.

I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

Essentially we have a stand off. People aren't going to go into the City Centre unless there's well organised and well advertised activities. Businesses/Organisations aren't going to develop these activities because there's nobody in the City Centre.

I realise that you live in the heart of the City Centre which is why you're acutely aware of the desolate nature of the place and of the various activities that are going on too. Understand that people who live outside the City Centre and come in to work in the morning and travel home in the evening aren't aware of such things.

Even those that are aware, may not see any added benefit in going there if they're already content with what is convenient to them. Your argument all along seems to be that the City Centre isn't all that bad and that there's enough to do. The problem is that the outskirts of the city has more than enough facilities to be content with. Convince those living in the outskirts that the Centre has more to offer and we'll have won half the battle.

Psychedelic

AdMMM wrote: »

A lot of it is about poor marketing. I live very close to the City Centre myself but I had no idea about the new restaurants opening along O'Connell St, or of the cafe you mentioned on the Quay. Both of those areas don't have enough footfall to allow them to ignore advertising. Advertising and marketing needs to be a bit more innovative than putting a small advert in the Waterford Today every week, especially during these times.

An advert in the Waterford Today isn't good enough? That paper is delivered to nearly every home in the city I think, how can that not be an effective way for a business to inform people about their business? What do you want them to do exactly? Why does it have to be innovative? Do you see an advert and go "ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

AdMMM wrote: »

Essentially we have a stand off. People aren't going to go into the City Centre unless there's well organised and well advertised activities. Businesses/Organisations aren't going to develop these activities because there's nobody in the City Centre.

Do you not read the local papers? They all have websites too so check them out and find out what's happening in the city. No excuses for not knowing what's going on. Have a listen to WLR or Beat, you can do that online too. There is a sticky thread on this very forum with events on in the city - check it out. Visit upthedeise.com and other local websites. What do you want the businesses and event promoters to do? Do you expect them to spoon feed you the information or something?

AdMMM wrote: »

I realise that you live in the heart of the City Centre which is why you're acutely aware of the desolate nature of the place and of the various activities that are going on too. Understand that people who live outside the City Centre and come in to work in the morning and travel home in the evening aren't aware of such things.

I live in Tramore, work in the city centre yet I'm well aware of a lot of the new shops opening and the other events happening.

AdMMM wrote: »

Even those that are aware, may not see any added benefit in going there if they're already content with what is convenient to them. Your argument all along seems to be that the City Centre isn't all that bad and that there's enough to do. The problem is that the outskirts of the city has more than enough facilities to be content with. Convince those living in the outskirts that the Centre has more to offer and we'll have won half the battle.

No nightclubs, no theatres, no Forum and no cinemas in the suburbs.

AdMMM

An advert in the Waterford Today isn't good enough? That paper is delivered to nearly every home in the city I think, how can that not be an effective way for a business to inform people about their business? What do you want them to do exactly? Why does it have to be innovative? Do you see an advert and go "ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

It's a way to reach customers, yes. However, stuffing your ad in beside a tonne of other ads doesn't really achieve much at the end of the day. Unless you're looking for ads, which I can tell you most people are not. Rapid Cabs delivered a fridge magnet a few years back which had the numbers of all the restuarants in Waterford (well, all the ones who participated). Something like that is very effective as it's relatively cheap to produce, it serves a purpose and is unlikely to be thrown out. Of course it also benefited all parties with Rapid Cabs getting the extra taxi trade from people who wanted to have a bottle of wine with their meal and the restaurants themselves being able get their name out there and attract new customers.

By all means, companies should use the Waterford Today to advertise but they should be aware that just because it's distributed to 40,000 people doesn't mean that 40,000 will read it. Only a fraction of the people will be exposed to the ad and a fraction of that will be interested in it.

"ah look at that, a new business has opened up in the city centre....oh wait, they've only advertised in the Waterford Today, not innovative enough for me, won't be checking them out."

Interesting that you should raise that. A lot of people will completely disregard an advert in something that they have little value in. A paper like the Waterford Today is wholly supported by advertising revenue so on the face of it, its content wouldn't be something many consider to be credible. However, if the same ad was to appear in the News and Star or Munster Express then it would most likely yield a better response.

So in essence, no, the Waterford Today isn't enough.

Do you not read the local papers? They all have websites too so check them out and find out what's happening in the city. No excuses for not knowing what's going on. Have a listen to WLR or Beat, you can do that online too. There is a sticky thread on this very forum with events on in the city - check it out. Visit upthedeise.com and other local websites. What do you want the businesses and event promoters to do? Do you expect them to spoon feed you the information or something?

Guides like Whazon are brilliant for local events and something like that is much more effective than Radio for advertising events. In fact, Radio is probably the worst medium for advertising events given that listeners are often distracted while listening (be it driving or at home doing housework) so it's very easy for them to miss important pieces of information such as the date and time. Even in this hyper-connected age, very few people would follow up on something they vaguely heard on the radio unless it was something that really interested them. Social Networking is the obvious way to appeal to younger generation but the only evidence I've seen of such campaigns has been those ran by Heineken and Corrs to promote their music events around the town. Facebook is an extremely cost-effective way of reaching a target audience but it seems many local businesses are hesitant to get involved!

As for your references to Boards and Up The Deise, the vast majority of people have never heard of either site. Although in saying that, the Waterford Dictionary would have done wonders for UTD so hopefully they've been able to convert some non-believers over the years.

I live in Tramore, work in the city centre yet I'm well aware of a lot of the new shops opening and the other events happening.

Em... well done???

No nightclubs, no theatres, no Forum and no cinemas in the suburbs.

I don't really get what you're trying to prove here. Or you entirely misinterpreted my previous post. People still come into town to go out at night (as I said, we have a good selection of nightspots) and I think they always will come into town to go out at night (the suburbs aren't a popular place to go out in any of the cities I've been to). When there's choice available for shops and restaurants, more often than not, when there's no distinct advantage of either option, they'll choose to go where's most convenient for them or where they've had positive experiences before.

gscully

merlante wrote: »

3. There's no parking in Waterford and it's too expensive. There is always parking in Waterford and it's relatively cheap, it's just you've been living out on the Dunmore rd. too long and want a big dirty free car park outside every building, ala Tesco Ardkeen. (Why not learn to parallel park?)

merlante wrote: »

There is a low level of life in the centre from 5.30pm onwards, but if you're not familiar with the centre, you might not know what's going on. The fact is, people coming in from the likes of the Dunmore rd. have a picture of Waterford from 2002 or something. A business that opened 3 years ago is 'new'. Such and such a restaurant is bad even though the place has changed name and owner since they were last there.

The city centre is surviving on the 10,000 people who live there, not the 40,000 people that live outside of it. I personally think we'd be better off building the city around the people who actually care about it than the people who go to the Uluru every week and bitch about the centre and parking incessantly. (Unfortunately, it's not the wealthy 10,000 that live there.)

There are a few places open and it could be a lot better, and indeed in the 90's it was a lot better. We had three cafes opening until well after midnight: Luna, Global Village and Sizzlers. But it's a two way street. The 'money' has left the city centre for the lush pastures of the Dunmore rd., and the suburbs in general. The centre will have a renaissance at some point, but attitudes have to change. I think waiting until the streets are paved with gold and until every shop and every form of entertainment and shopping is in place before setting foot there is probably not realistic. We have to live with what we've got for now, which is actually not all that bad if you make the most of it. But people don't make the most of it.

You seem to have a degree of bitterness about people who live in the Dunmore Rd area. I've noticed this before in some of your posts. Do you actually believe that anyone who lives there cares nothing about the city centre? As far back as I can remember, the Kenneally's bus was always packed going into town, day and night!

As for everyone out that area being wealthy? People all over the city have been affected by the recession and unemployment, not least those on the Dunmore Rd.

Your argument might have more merit if you didn't generalise so much. The Dunmore Rd area has a diverse culture and population and that adds so much more to the city than the general begrudgery attitude you seem to have adopted.

As for the issue at hand, so what if Berfranks is the best deli in town? If it hadn't been mentioned on boards, I'd never have known about it, yet I do read Waterford Today, and I do listen to local radio, and I do go into the city centre! Not once have I seen or heard an ad for this place. No flyers have been delivered to my door! Oh, but the nasty Godfathers, Dominos, Kongs and Fans have managed to force their menus into my house. I guess they can afford the paper given their location eh? :rolleyes:

merlante wrote: »

If people would just stop whinging and actually take part in what's going on, there would be no problem. There was never such a bunch of people in history to point the finger at everyone except themselves.

Like pointing the finger at people who happen to live out the Dunmore Rd perhaps? :rolleyes:

merlante

gscully wrote: »

You seem to have a degree of bitterness about people who live in the Dunmore Rd area. I've noticed this before in some of your posts. Do you actually believe that anyone who lives there cares nothing about the city centre? As far back as I can remember, the Kenneally's bus was always packed going into town, day and night!

Well, when you selectively highlight parts of my post it would seem like that. I have zero bitterness towards the Dunmore rd., I am just trying to emphasize a dynamic that is going on in Waterford, a movement towards suburban living and an antipathy towards the centre and towards slightly difficult parking. There is a certain ignorance after growing up amongst people who would have known the centre very well as kids but not parrot generalisations that aren't necessarily true to their suburban friends.

gscully wrote: »

As for everyone out that area being wealthy? People all over the city have been affected by the recession and unemployment, not least those on the Dunmore Rd.

Your argument might have more merit if you didn't generalise so much. The Dunmore Rd area has a diverse culture and population and that adds so much more to the city than the general begrudgery attitude you seem to have adopted.

There is a great value in generalising. It gets the point through without having to do a 300 page academic study. I would hope that people don't actually think I'm referring to every man, woman and child in one specific area.

gscully wrote: »

As for the issue at hand, so what if Berfranks is the best deli in town? If it hadn't been mentioned on boards, I'd never have known about it, yet I do read Waterford Today, and I do listen to local radio, and I do go into the city centre! Not once have I seen or heard an ad for this place. No flyers have been delivered to my door! Oh, but the nasty Godfathers, Dominos, Kongs and Fans have managed to force their menus into my house. I guess they can afford the paper given their location eh? :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure they advertised in the Waterford today, I'd be surprised if they haven't been/don't appear on WLR in the near future. The place is so busy on Saturdays you can't get in the door, so they must be doing something right.

I think the advertising and marketing argument is a red herring. I think business do advertise in general, and statistics prove that the likes of the Waterford Today and WLR do work, and offer much better bang for their buck than the likes of whazon, which another poster mentioned. The point is that Waterford people are not particularly receptive to the messages that are being sent out. I've lived in other cities in Ireland and abroad, and the typical attitude is, "I heard such and such a place has opened up, lets go there and check it out." Can anyone honestly tell me that this is the typical attitude in Waterford? Waterford people are more likely to wait 6 months to see if a place is going to close down before they will even try the place. That's all too often the attitude.

gscully wrote: »

Like pointing the finger at people who happen to live out the Dunmore Rd perhaps? :rolleyes:

People complaining about the centre incessantly, who quite clearly don't live there and fail to show an accurate knowledge and assessment of the centre, are starting to sound like a broken record imho. Many of those people do live on the Dunmore rd., lets face it. The generalisation is a useful one, just as the D4 generalisation in Dublin is a useful one. It's a dynamic that is worth recognising.

gscully

merlante wrote: »

Well, when you selectively highlight parts of my post it would seem like that. I have zero bitterness towards the Dunmore rd.

No, I selected four or five pieces from two posts of yours in this thread alone that single out the Dunmore Rd area. If there are mentions of other suburban areas, I must've missed them!

merlante wrote: »

There is a great value in generalising. It gets the point through without having to do a 300 page academic study. I would hope that people don't actually think I'm referring to every man, woman and child in one specific area..

There is never great value in generalising! Every man, woman and child is different, regardless of their situation. You reckon getting the point through is more important than displaying a true reflection of the area you're purporting to be at fault for the state of the city centre?

merlante wrote: »

I think the advertising and marketing argument is a red herring. I think business do advertise in general, and statistics prove that the likes of the Waterford Today and WLR do work, and offer much better bang for their buck than the likes of whazon, which another poster mentioned. The point is that Waterford people are not particularly receptive to the messages that are being sent out. I've lived in other cities in Ireland and abroad, and the typical attitude is, "I heard such and such a place has opened up, lets go there and check it out." Can anyone honestly tell me that this is the typical attitude in Waterford? Waterford people are more likely to wait 6 months to see if a place is going to close down before they will even try the place. That's all too often the attitude..

Places like Harveys, Escape, Twister Vicks, New York Burger etc all seem, or seemed to do well once they opened. There will always be a novelty value about a new business, but people need to know about it, not stumble across it! People are not being receptive, because they message is not being driven home to them.

merlante wrote: »

People complaining about the centre incessantly, who quite clearly don't live there and fail to show an accurate knowledge and assessment of the centre, are starting to sound like a broken record imho. Many of those people do live on the Dunmore rd., lets face it. The generalisation is a useful one, just as the D4 generalisation in Dublin is a useful one. It's a dynamic that is worth recognising.

Not really, as you're showing the reverse. I assume you don't live near the Dunmore Rd, yet you're forming a completely inaccurate assessment of the area and its people. Dublin 4 is not a good yardstick either, as people in D4 have all the amenities they need on their doorstep. The same cannot be said of any Waterford suburb!