Who or what is God?

Turtwig

Sam Vimes

Soul Winner wrote: »

If they can conclude that the Higgs particle does not exist then they will have to practically rewrite science. Why would they want to do that?

Wow, that's a very odd thing to say. Scientists LOVE finding out that they're wrong. The question to be asked here is why would they want to hold onto an idea of science that's wrong? If they find out that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist they'll increase their understanding of the universe

Turtwig

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Wow, that's a very odd thing to say. Scientists LOVE finding out that they're wrong. The question to be asked here is why would they want to hold onto an idea of science that's wrong? If they find out that the Higgs Boson doesn't exist they'll increase their understanding of the universe

Einstein said it best:

No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong

A lot of heads will probably roll first though - all those years working/studying a theory........when they could have been living in ignorance.

RodgerTheDoger

kelly1 wrote: »

Hello Mangaroosh, to be honest, it's very difficult to get a handle on God and many say it's impossible. My understand of God is that "He" is an infinite Spirit who's omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent. I believe God is ultimate Good and is kind, caring and merciful. But I also believe God abhors sin and is a God of justice.

I don't believe in the God of Deism. After all, when we made a mess of things, "God so loved the world, that He sent His only Son to die for us". This shows me how much God loves us but also how big an issue sin is for God.

It's far easier for us humans to relate to Jesus Christ as the human compassionate, caring face of God. I think Christians have an easier time relating to God, compared say with Jews and Muslims, for this very reason.

God bless,
Noel.

You think Christians have an easier time relating to God, compared say with Jews and Muslims?

I find that statement somewhat unnerving.
You feel Christians relate to a Jewish man that lived in Israel 2000 years ago more so than the jews or muslims, good for you

What is god to me? For me it's an idea, to think that we could really comprehend such a thing I feel is impossible... It would be like trying to understand everything all at once.

I feel it is important to approach god with an open mind, pointing the finger at other religious back ground and saying "well that cannot be" or "they are wrong" or "they don't understand" is pointless, it really just shows that you have approached it with preconceived ideas and with eyes closed.

Fanny Cradock

RodgerTheDoger wrote: »

You feel Christians relate to a Jewish man that lived in Israel 2000 years ago more so than the jews or muslims, good for you
I feel it is important to approach god with an open mind, pointing the finger at other religious back ground and saying "well that cannot be" or "they are wrong" or "they don't understand" is pointless, it really just shows that you have approached it with preconceived ideas and with eyes closed.

Well, given that neither Judaism nor Islam accepts that Jesus was God, I would say that it is perfectly correct to say that they would have a harder time relating to Jesus, his claims to divinity and his resurrection.

I`m not sure that Kelly actually said, "well, that can not be" etc. He was discussing how one relates to God, not specificially the validity of other religions. For my part, while I believe that christianity is true (in the fullest sense of the word), I don`t deny that Jews and Muslims can`t know God. Indeed, I sometimes wonder if God would be more pleased with a faithful Jew or Muslim than a slack Christian?

Besides all this, in attempting to deny someone the right to say that X is wrong - for example, the opinion that Jesus isn`t God, or that he was`t resurrected - you are ironically enforcing your own preconceived postmodern ideas and ideals on somone else.

While it might be terribly unPC, there is nothing wrong with believeing someone is wrong and saying so. I`d be quite happy to have a chat with a Jew or Muslim about why I believe Christianity is true, and I wouldn`t deny them the same right to make their case.

roosh

Interesting responses here. There are a few things that lend themselves to misunderstanding I think, one such was the reference to God as a person, which made me think of human being. It wasn't until I looked up the word that I saw it relates to christian theology, and is used to describe the trinity in its individual states.

Perhaps, a bit like the word theory when used in the scientific sense.


Just a general question:

Do people here believe that God is external from them, that they may meet "an independent third party" after some time in purgotory?

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

Just a general question:

Do people here believe that God is external from them?

Yes.

that they may meet "an independent third party" after some time in purgotory?

No, since I don't believe in purgatory.

Joe1919

If horses could draw, they would draw their gods like horses'(Xenophanes).

There is an ancient (pagan) pre-Christian idea of god as the word or 'Logis' or logic or intelligence behind the world.

I would agree with this 'pagan' view of seeing god as the 'word' (word = logic) and as suggested in the bible by John
'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' (John 1:1)

Everything else is really an 'add-on' or addition to this view e.g The incarnated, personal god etc.
Christianity (imo) has many its of its origins in paganism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

http://www.lausher.com/documents/Xenophanes.pdf

roosh

PDN wrote: »

Yes.

Do you believe that God resides in heaven?

roosh

Joe1919 wrote: »

If horses could draw, they would draw their gods like horses'(Xenophanes).

There is an ancient (pagan) pre-Christian idea of god as the word or 'Logis' or logic or intelligence behind the world.

I would agree with this 'pagan' view of seeing god as the 'word' (word = logic) and as suggested in the bible by John
'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' (John 1:1)

Everything else is really an 'add-on' or addition to this view e.g The incarnated, personal god etc.
Christianity (imo) has many its of its origins in paganism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logos

http://www.lausher.com/documents/Xenophanes.pdf

very interesting point. I'd be inclinde to agree. That is part of of the description of God.

I must check out the links. cheers

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

Do you believe that God resides in heaven?

I don't think heaven is a physical location. I would rather see heaven as another dimension in which God dwells.

roosh

PDN wrote: »

I don't think heaven is a physical location. I would rather see heaven as another dimension in which God dwells.

cool. what does it mean to you, that "the kingdom of heaven is within" us?

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

cool. what does it mean to you, that "the kingdom of heaven is within" us?

It means that the presence of God has broken into our dimension and that He is moving among us.

Or, to express it in spatial terms, heaven touching earth.

roosh

PDN wrote: »

It means that the presence of God has broken into our dimension and that He is moving among us.

Or, to express it in spatial terms, heaven touching earth.

OK, but the kingdom of heaven is said to be within us, "heaven touching earth" would not, I beleive, be an accurate description. Could you clarify it a bit further?

Also, with regard to what Jesus said, that we are all God's children, does this make us the son's and daughters of God also, in the same sense that Jesus was the son of God?

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

OK, but the kingdom of heaven is said to be within us, "heaven touching earth" would not, I beleive, be an accurate description. Could you clarify it a bit further?

Happy to clarify. Jesus said η βασιλεια του θεου εντος υμων εστιν - or "The kingdom of God is your midst". At that point Jesus, as the incarnate Son of God was standing in their midst. Heaven touching earth would sound a very accurate description indeed.

Also, with regard to what Jesus said, that we are all God's children, does this make us the son's and daughters of God also, in the same sense that Jesus was the son of God?

Sorry, where did Jesus say we are all God's children?

roosh

PDN wrote: »

Happy to clarify. Jesus said η βασιλεια του θεου εντος υμων εστιν - or "The kingdom of God is your midst". At that point Jesus, as the incarnate Son of God was standing in their midst. Heaven touching earth would sound a very accurate description indeed.

Fair enough, although it would not be the only interpretation.

PDN wrote: »

Sorry, where did Jesus say we are all God's children?

You'll have to pardon my ignorance, and allow me to ask a different question, just to get a clearer understanding.

where does the idea that "we are all God's children" come from? and what would be your interpretation of that?

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

You'll have to pardon my ignorance, and allow me to ask a different question, just to get a clearer understanding.

where does the idea that "we are all God's children" come from? and what would be your interpretation of that?

I think the idea comes from a sentimentality that is based on wishful thinking rather than on the Bible. It sounds nice and fluffy, but I can't see that Jesus said any such thing in the Scriptures.

roosh

PDN wrote: »

I think the idea comes from a sentimentality that is based on wishful thinking rather than on the Bible. It sounds nice and fluffy, but I can't see that Jesus said any such thing in the Scriptures.

I just did a quick google search, to see where I got it from, or where it came from. I just followed this link.

Just a couple of quick questions, just to clarify a couple of things I have heard also.

What would be your interpretation of the word sin meaning "to miss the target"?


Also, with regard to the Virgin Mary, the interpretation that what was actually meant was that she was without sin?

PDN

mangaroosh wrote: »

Just a couple of quick questions, just to clarify a couple of things I have heard also.

What would be your interpretation of the word sin meaning "to miss the target"?

I would prefer to say it is one definition, albeit incomplete, of 'sin'. It means to transgress against the will of God. So, if we believe that perfection was God's plan for mankind, then anything that falls short of that mark of perfection would therefore be sin.

Also, with regard to the Virgin Mary, the interpretation that what was actually meant was that she was without sin?

Some of our Catholic posters may want to give you a different perspective, but my understanding is that Mary was a sinner. The only sinless person was Jesus Christ Himself.

ScottTNT

To me there has to be some seperation between god and religion. Organised religion seems to be a bit of a deviation from the real point. Most religions i find focus on us people as sinners, or general negative beings who must repent. we exist therefor we must repent. Have you seen a small child? They are full of life. They don't have any bad views of the world unlsess they learn them from their parents or others later in life. If they were to continue without any of the negative influences that society or even religio would inflict on them they would grow up living their lives from their inate instincts of kindness and ultimately be themselves. God to me in synonymous with life. Everyone is born with this beautiful life inside them. Look inside of yourself. If you can push aside all of the negative thoughts that you carry around, and meanings that you have for everything you will find how you truly feel. How you truly feel deep down underneath those layers is your true self, the expression of life. god if you will. This feeling or energy that you have inside is all powerful.. the ability to create, and to feel euphoric. When you get connected to that you gain insights, or even direction on what to do next in your life that would work perfectly for you and everythign that you do falls into place. Life itself isn't meant to be a struggle in theslightest.. or a matter of living in fear lest you do the wrong thing.. There is a path for everyone and it can be drawn out from inside of you. You may have noticed that sometimes when you are really enjoy yourself things in life just seem to fall into place no matter what.. the whole right place at the right time phenomenon. It really isn't a coincidence. you are connected then. If you look even closer god is in all things. That energy and life is in all things.. we are all god, or a peice of god.. created in his image.. it all means the same thing. we may be but a drop in the ocean. but we are also the ocean. all one. magicians in a sea of energy.

Fanny Cradock

Better suited to the spirituality forum, Scott.

ScottTNT

i appologise, i didn't realize god and spirituality were two seperate topics.. To some people they aren't. I'll leave you guys to it then Have a happy Christmas all

Fanny Cradock

No need to apologise. In Christianity - certainly orthodox Christianity - we aren't God, we are individuals separate to God while also being dependent on him. What you are describing is really more like pantheism and not Christianity.

roosh

ScottTNT wrote: »

To me there has to be some seperation between god and religion. Organised religion seems to be a bit of a deviation from the real point. Most religions i find focus on us people as sinners, or general negative beings who must repent. we exist therefor we must repent. Have you seen a small child? They are full of life. They don't have any bad views of the world unlsess they learn them from their parents or others later in life. If they were to continue without any of the negative influences that society or even religio would inflict on them they would grow up living their lives from their inate instincts of kindness and ultimately be themselves. God to me in synonymous with life. Everyone is born with this beautiful life inside them. Look inside of yourself. If you can push aside all of the negative thoughts that you carry around, and meanings that you have for everything you will find how you truly feel. How you truly feel deep down underneath those layers is your true self, the expression of life. god if you will. This feeling or energy that you have inside is all powerful.. the ability to create, and to feel euphoric. When you get connected to that you gain insights, or even direction on what to do next in your life that would work perfectly for you and everythign that you do falls into place. Life itself isn't meant to be a struggle in theslightest.. or a matter of living in fear lest you do the wrong thing.. There is a path for everyone and it can be drawn out from inside of you. You may have noticed that sometimes when you are really enjoy yourself things in life just seem to fall into place no matter what.. the whole right place at the right time phenomenon. It really isn't a coincidence. you are connected then. If you look even closer god is in all things. That energy and life is in all things.. we are all god, or a peice of god.. created in his image.. it all means the same thing. we may be but a drop in the ocean. but we are also the ocean. all one. magicians in a sea of energy.

Excellent description.

roosh

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

No need to apologise. In Christianity - certainly orthodox Christianity - we aren't God, we are individuals separate to God while also being dependent on him. What you are describing is really more like pantheism and not Christianity.

The original question however, was not what is the Christian interpretation of God, rather who or what is God?

Christianity is just an interpretation of what God is, or rather the interpretation of what Jesus said about God. There is a very good possibility that his message has been misinterpreted.

Judaism and Islam are both different interpretations of the same God.

Puck

mangaroosh wrote: »

The original question however, was not what is the Christian interpretation of God, rather who or what is God?

Christianity is just an interpretation of what God is, or rather the interpretation of what Jesus said about God. There is a very good possibility that his message has been misinterpreted.

Judaism and Islam are both different interpretations of the same God.

It was a question posted on the Christianity board.

chozometroid

ScottTNT wrote: »

To me there has to be some seperation between god and religion. Organised religion seems to be a bit of a deviation from the real point. Most religions i find focus on us people as sinners, or general negative beings who must repent. we exist therefor we must repent. Have you seen a small child? They are full of life. They don't have any bad views of the world unlsess they learn them from their parents or others later in life. If they were to continue without any of the negative influences that society or even religio would inflict on them they would grow up living their lives from their inate instincts of kindness and ultimately be themselves. God to me in synonymous with life. Everyone is born with this beautiful life inside them. Look inside of yourself. If you can push aside all of the negative thoughts that you carry around, and meanings that you have for everything you will find how you truly feel. How you truly feel deep down underneath those layers is your true self, the expression of life. god if you will. This feeling or energy that you have inside is all powerful.. the ability to create, and to feel euphoric. When you get connected to that you gain insights, or even direction on what to do next in your life that would work perfectly for you and everythign that you do falls into place. Life itself isn't meant to be a struggle in theslightest.. or a matter of living in fear lest you do the wrong thing.. There is a path for everyone and it can be drawn out from inside of you. You may have noticed that sometimes when you are really enjoy yourself things in life just seem to fall into place no matter what.. the whole right place at the right time phenomenon. It really isn't a coincidence. you are connected then. If you look even closer god is in all things. That energy and life is in all things.. we are all god, or a peice of god.. created in his image.. it all means the same thing. we may be but a drop in the ocean. but we are also the ocean. all one. magicians in a sea of energy.

That sounds nice and all, but so do the words of Satan. Don't mean to offend, but spiritualism is exactly what Satan would like people to believe. We are marvelous creatures who should not be limited by rules, god is everything/everything is god, we can gain knowledge and ascend to higher levels of being (on our own), etc.
Any spirit "realm" that is without Jesus Christ the Son of God is one consisting solely of demons.

roosh

chozometroid wrote: »

That sounds nice and all, but so do the words of Satan. Don't mean to offend, but spiritualism is exactly what Satan would like people to believe. We are marvelous creatures who should not be limited by rules, god is everything/everything is god, we can gain knowledge and ascend to higher levels of being (on our own), etc.
Any spirit "realm" that is without Jesus Christ the Son of God is one consisting solely of demons.

whoah, that all sounds a bit apocalyptic.

spirituality is all about "repenting", taking responsibility for your actions and being a better person, indeed it is the embodiment of what Christ taught and how christ was.


spirituality is at the core of all religions. To believe in christ but not be spiritual is more damning than not believing in christ and being spiritual.

I could be showing my ignorance, but christ did not really require people to believe in him, but rather live a spiritual life. Would this be even remotely correct.

Also, just a quick question, did Jesus ever refer to himself as the son of God?

chozometroid

mangaroosh wrote: »

whoah, that all sounds a bit apocalyptic.

spirituality is all about "repenting", taking responsibility for your actions and being a better person, indeed it is the embodiment of what Christ taught and how christ was.

Spirituality is much broader than that.

spirituality is at the core of all religions. To believe in christ but not be spiritual is more damning than not believing in christ and being spiritual.

I never said anything about believing in Christ and not being spiritual. I certainly believe a Christian should be walking in the Spirit (of God).

I could be showing my ignorance, but christ did not really require people to believe in him, but rather live a spiritual life. Would this be even remotely correct.

John 14:6-9
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


John 11
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

It's pretty clear that we must believe in Christ to have everlasting life.

And the popular John 3:16 (being the Word of God):
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Also, just a quick question, did Jesus ever refer to himself as the son of God?

No He did not. But the above verses show that He claimed to be one with God.

hivizman

mangaroosh wrote: »

Also, just a quick question, did Jesus ever refer to himself as the son of God?

This Wikipedia article entitled Son of God gives a list of Biblical verses where the term "Son of God" is used.

Most of the verses where Jesus himself uses the expression are in John's Gospel - in the other gospels, it is usually others who describe Jesus as "Son of God". Most notably, in the trial of Jesus (Matthew 26:63-64, Mark 14:61-62, Luke 22:70), the High Priest challenges Jesus as to whether he is "the Messiah, the Son of God", and Jesus replies (according to Matthew and Luke) "You say that I am". This enigmatic statement can be read as agreement or denial. Mark, however, uses a slightly different wording for the question: "Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?" [ο χριστος ο υιος του ευλογητου], to which Jesus replies "I am".

It is a standard argument of Muslim apologists that Jesus nowhere categorically says that he is the Son of God, but we have to remember that, to contemporary Jews, the expression would probably have been understood simply as a synonym for the Messiah (see Psalm 2), or as referring to a relationship akin to that between God and David (see II Samuel 7:14, where God, speaking through Nathan the Prophet, says of David: "I will be a father to him, and he shall be a son to me").