"Starting Strength" questions

kipple

I want to start starting strength a program for beginners that has you train for 3 nonconsecutive days per week doing the following.

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Barbell Rows


My gym (crunch in Temple bar) does not have a squat rack. What are my alternatives? Does this mean I need to use the leg press?

Crunch has only 1 "normal" bar that has the possibility of adding weight to and lots of barbells with fixed amount of weight. Can I use these fixed barbells safely for Standing Press and Barbell Rows?

If I need the one "normal" bar for Bench Press/Deadlift and when this piece of equipment is under heavy use what is the usual procedure in a gym to share. For example do I wait my turn and then its mind until my workout is finished or do otheres use it between my sets.

Finally if Squats are great why no squat rack in a gym and why are people not interested in Squating. Another obversation is that I have yet to see anybody doing deadlifts in crunch.

Thanks,
T.

amacachi

kipple wrote: »

Finally if Squats are great why no squat rack in a gym and why are people not interested in Squating. Another obversation is that I have yet to see anybody doing deadlifts in crunch.

Thanks,
T.

If the demand isn't there they won't have one. And you can't trust people, people like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis.

d'Oracle

kipple wrote: »

Finally if Squats are great why no squat rack in a gym and why are people not interested in Squating. Another obversation is that I have yet to see anybody doing deadlifts in crunch.

Thanks,
T.

Its gonna be hard to answer that question without going into a discussion on the fitness industry, its shortcomings and difference in training approaches.

Bottom line is a good gym has at least one rack.
And Deadlifting is awesome.

brianblaze

The one problem I have with Crunch, apart from the 'Brothel Décor' is the lack of a squat rack. The Smith machine is not really a great alternative.

G-Money

Is it ok to use dumbbells for the bench press rather than a barbell? I have both at home, however I don't have a rack for holding the barbell so I'm thinking it could be tricky to bench press it if I've nothing to set it onto.

Frogdog

kipple wrote: »

I want to start starting strength a program for beginners that has you train for 3 nonconsecutive days per week doing the following.

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Standing military press
3x5 Barbell Rows


My gym (crunch in Temple bar) does not have a squat rack. What are my alternatives? Does this mean I need to use the leg press?

Crunch has only 1 "normal" bar that has the possibility of adding weight to and lots of barbells with fixed amount of weight. Can I use these fixed barbells safely for Standing Press and Barbell Rows?

If I need the one "normal" bar for Bench Press/Deadlift and when this piece of equipment is under heavy use what is the usual procedure in a gym to share. For example do I wait my turn and then its mind until my workout is finished or do otheres use it between my sets.

Finally if Squats are great why no squat rack in a gym and why are people not interested in Squating. Another obversation is that I have yet to see anybody doing deadlifts in crunch.

Thanks,
T.

Simple answer to all of the above - change gyms. It's the answer Rip would have given you.

And Barbell Rows in Workout B? Don't you mean Power Cleans???

G-Money

I thought with the Starting Strength programme you did 3 sets of 5 reps on each exercise. From looking at other peoples logs, they seem to be doing 5 or 6 sets of stuff.

Also, I assume each day you need to add more weight to the barbell?

InKonspikuou2

grandmaster wrote: »

Is it ok to use dumbbells for the bench press rather than a barbell? I have both at home, however I don't have a rack for holding the barbell so I'm thinking it could be tricky to bench press it if I've nothing to set it onto.

grandmaster wrote: »

I thought with the Starting Strength programme you did 3 sets of 5 reps on each exercise. From looking at other peoples logs, they seem to be doing 5 or 6 sets of stuff.

Also, I assume each day you need to add more weight to the barbell?

Without a rack to place the barbell it wouldn't be wise to try benching. Other than using a very light weight i can't even see how you would perform the exercise without injury. Stick to the dumbbells if you have no other alternative. Both are good chest work outs.

Regarding the increase of sets. I always find that people find a program and then like to change it. More often then not the change isn't usually for the best because people end up adding in more exercises or increase the sets. They think that 3 exercises for only 3 sets isn't going to do you much good in terms of muscle mass. But if they were doing it at a proper weight they shouldn't have the energy to do any more than what is in a program. A lot of these programs are designed by experienced professionals and are tailored perfectly as they are. No need for extra exercises or sets.

With the above said i use a similar program. But it's 5x5 and includes all the major compound movements. There are lots of different 5x5 programs out there such as Big Al's, FrankieNY or Tony Starks. So maybe the people's logs you have read are on something similar to Rippetoes.

Also adding weight to the barbell each day should be your goal but realistically you are not going to achieve that. If it's 3x5 or 5x5 people normally lift a specific weight until they can lift that weight for the 3x5 or 5x5. Then they increase the weight. If you pick a correct weight you should initially struggle to lift the weight for the desired amount of reps per set. E.g.

1st set - 5 x 100kg
2nd set - 4 x 100kg
3rd set - 3 x 100kg

When you get your lifts looking like this

1st set - 5 x 100kg
2nd set - 5 x 100kg
3rd set - 5 x 100kg

You then increase the weight.

Some people like to increment the weight for each set. But i prefer keeping it the same until i can do the full 5x5.

InKonspikuou2

Frogdog wrote: »

Simple answer to all of the above - change gyms. It's the answer Rip would have given you.

And Barbell Rows in Workout B? Don't you mean Power Cleans???

It's barbell rows or power cleans. I personally prefer bb rows as my core gets hit enough from the deads, squats and overhead press. But if i was on this i'd probably alternate the exercises every 8 or 12 weeks. bb rows for the first 2/3 months and then the power cleans.

kipple

Frogdog wrote: »

Simple answer to all of the above - change gyms. It's the answer Rip would have given you.

And Barbell Rows in Workout B? Don't you mean Power Cleans???

Rippetoe thinks that a coach is 100% necessary to learn the power clean so the row is a substitute, pull up/chin up is another substitute.

Changing gyms is not an option because I paid for the year and cash is low right now. The main reason I joined crunch was that it was the most convenient gym and so when it is convenient I am much more likely to go.

Back to my original question. Some possible substitute's for the Squat???

1. Do lots of Squats with a lighter weight or even just body weight
2. Leg Press
3. Smith Machine
4. Do Deadlift each workout
5. Some combination of the above.

For 1. above I dont have a understanding of the physiology of the difference between low reps vs v.high reps. However at least with the light weight squats I am working in Gravity an so my intrinsic muscles are working and I have the benefit of the biomechanics of the compound movement. So for 2. the leg press is at best OK.

Any comments?

InKonspikuou2

kipple wrote: »

Rippetoe thinks that a coach is 100% necessary to learn the power clean so the row is a substitute, pull up/chin up is another substitute.

Changing gyms is not an option because I paid for the year and cash is low right now. The main reason I joined crunch was that it was the most convenient gym and so when it is convenient I am much more likely to go.

Back to my original question. Some possible substitute's for the Squat???

1. Do lots of Squats with a lighter weight or even just body weight
2. Leg Press
3. Smith Machine
4. Do Deadlift each workout
5. Some combination of the above.

For 1. above I dont have a understanding of the physiology of the difference between low reps vs v.high reps. However at least with the light weight squats I am working in Gravity an so my intrinsic muscles are working and I have the benefit of the biomechanics of the compound movement. So for 2. the leg press is at best OK.

Any comments?

Could try the hack squat. A pretty under valued exercise in my opinion. Or the leg press. Either of those aren't a bad substitute.

d'Oracle

kipple wrote: »

Back to my original question. Some possible substitute's for the Squat???

1. Do lots of Squats with a lighter weight or even just body weight
2. Leg Press
3. Smith Machine
4. Do Deadlift each workout
5. Some combination of the above.

For 1. above I dont have a understanding of the physiology of the difference between low reps vs v.high reps. However at least with the light weight squats I am working in Gravity an so my intrinsic muscles are working and I have the benefit of the biomechanics of the compound movement. So for 2. the leg press is at best OK.

Any comments?

Leg press is not a substitute for Squat, its a totally different movement.
Rip is clear on this also. Squats are substitute for the squat.

Smith Machine is an inadequate replacement for a squat, but probably better than the leg press.

Deadlift is not the same as squat, plus when it gets heavy deadlifting 3 times a week would probably crush you.

The only thing I can think of is dumbbell squats like a gobelet squat or dumbbell overhead squat, but its not Starting Strength without a Low bar back Squat.

token

InKonspikuou2 wrote: »

It's barbell rows or power cleans

It's powercleans. Rows are sub'd in to the program by people on the internet. Which if you spend a bit of time on Rip's Q&A forum pisses him off no end.

kipple wrote: »

Rippetoe thinks that a coach is 100% necessary to learn the power clean so the row is a substitute

Likewise this one comes up on his forum from time to time. I don't have an exact quote but basically he said he wouldn't have put it in the program and explained it in his book if he thought a coach was necessary to learn it followed by a bunch of obscenities. It's not that difficult to learn, read the book & either get his dvd or look at videos on the net.

Rip's forum btw
http://www.startingstrength.com/resources/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=129

kipple

d'Oracle wrote: »

but its not Starting Strength without a Low bar back Squat.

I appreciate the information and I would prefer to think of "starting strength" as a way to get generally fit not as an end in its self. Lets not loose sight of the woods for the trees.

Starting strength is just a book I read about strength training and I like the fact it was for beginners and that it concentrated on a minimum of compound exercises. Now I find that my gym does not have a squat rack this is NOT an excuse to stop. Any advice?


T.

d'Oracle

No, sorry.

token

Well personally I'd change gyms but if you have to make due (would want to be a very good reason) I would go and get very proficient at the powerclean/full clean so you can get a decent weight to your shoulders and perform front squats.