Can Ireland win a world cup?

chupacabra

Listening to RuggaMatrix last night, they were interviewing Joel Stransky, a legendary Springbok fly-half who won the 1995 Rugby world cup with the drop goal that separated the sides. He was asked the question "Can Ireland win a world cup?" his reply was simple. "No" followed by a long pause and then an attempt to explain why, the usual stuff "Not enough depth compared to the SH sides", "not enough players", "not enough good players" and an inability to go abroad and play like we do here at home. I for one disagree, I for one think its totally possible for Ireland to win a world cup. Maybe i'm just naive and unrealistic, but i think Rugby is such a sport where upsets occur more often than not and where smaller teams and smaller countries can always push the big lads around. On the contrary, i think its naive to suggest that we CAN'T win the world cup. What do you think?

SomeFool

Look at the last WC and the England team that made the final, a team that were being regularly beaten by Ireland. There's no reason why we can't win a world cup, but we'd have to perform to our hightst standard in at least four games to pull it off, and have out best 15 fit, fresh and hungry.

gcgirl

i'd like to think we do have the man power to win the world cup but time will tell

Sabre0001

We need belief. Afterall, we don't even rate our chances of winning a 6N when we have France and England away from home...

Pisco Sour

Of course we can win a world cup. Its ludicrous to suggest that the 3rd/4th best team in the world cant win a world cup! Imagine saying the 3rd/4th best team in football had no chance of winning the FIFA World Cup. Outrageous to just write us off like that.

siltirocker

04072511 wrote: »

Of course we can win a world cup. Its ludicrous to suggest that the 3rd/4th best team in the world cant win a world cup! Imagine saying the 3rd/4th best team in football had no chance of winning the FIFA World Cup. Outrageous to just write us off like that.

Ah c'mon man, COMPLETELY different sport!

May as well not write off Hearts or Hibs in the SPL with that mentality. Or look at the Darts world rankings, while were at it.

(The 3rd/4th best team in the world wouldn't even be at the WC if football had rugby rules.)

Hyperbullet

If we can learn to dominate at the breakdown and find a replacement for Hayes then there's no reason why we cant. There's so many great players coming through who will be world class, I'm fully confident we can.

Cuchulain

siltirocker wrote: »

(The 3rd/4th best team in the world wouldn't even be at the WC if football had rugby rules.)

I disagree. I'd say it would be more like 7th or 8th

Sorry but I dont think that Ireland can win the World Cup in the next decade.
There is a distinct gap between the SH and NH teams which isnt closing much.
We have never even beaten the kiwis for god sake.

This poll should really be set up after tomorrows match as we could tell a bit more then.

Pisco Sour

Cuchulain wrote: »

I disagree. I'd say it would be more like 7th or 8th

Sorry but I dont think that Ireland can win the World Cup in the next decade.
There is a distinct gap between the SH and NH teams which isnt closing much.
We have never even beaten the kiwis for god sake.

This poll should really be set up after tomorrows match as we could tell a bit more then.

Who are the Kiwi's? Thought we were talking about Union here, not League!

With NZ's history of bottling it when it matters most we may not need to beat them to win a World Cup!

zenmonk

We win a Grand Slam for the first time in whatever!
We need to be winning the 6 nations consistently and beating the SH teams in their backyard to have a chance.
This team is n't good enough, who's to say we can win it in a few years time but 2011 not a hope.

chupacabra

Cuchulain wrote: »

This poll should really be set up after tomorrows match as we could tell a bit more then.

The thread will still be here tomorrow :rolleyes:

Cuchulain

04072511 wrote: »

Please explain how Ireland are only 7th or 8th in the world?

kiwis, all blacks, new zealanders.......whatever.....you know who im talking about.

It was in reference to the previous point pertaining to soccer.
I think that equivalent to the top teams in soccer, Ireland would be placed around 7th or 8th in rugby terms. Meaning that the gap between 3rd and 4th in rugby is the same difference between 3rd and 8th in the soccer.

B0X

In a nutshell: If England could do it at one stage (and then bluff their way through the next one!) , I don't see why we can't.

fifth

Yes I think we can and I think this is the squad to do it.

irishbucsfan

Absolutely we can. Our squad is stronger than the vast majority of the rest of the NH and its certainly stronger than Australia at the moment. We may be missing depth in the front row but apart from that we have a squad that's more than capable of achieving a world cup win.

The only teams I'd be afraid of meeting in the competition (on current form) would be France, NZ or SA and we might only have to play 1 or 2 out of those three. We know we can beat any of them on our day (Maybe NZ on home soil would be tough)

chupacabra

The sad thing is that in the same podcast, after the interview Les Kiss came on and almost backed up the claim that a world cup would be a bridge too far for Ireland. I know he has to keep us grounded etc. but a bit of optimism would go a long way too.

T-Maxx

Here you go:

Irl 16/1

I guess that makes it a "no"...:p

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Absolutely we can. Our squad is stronger than the vast majority of the rest of the NH and its certainly stronger than Australia at the moment. We may be missing depth in the front row but apart from that we have a squad that's more than capable of achieving a world cup win.

The only teams I'd be afraid of meeting in the competition (on current form) would be France, NZ or SA and we might only have to play 1 or 2 out of those three. We know we can beat any of them on our day (Maybe NZ on home soil would be tough)

Then why can't we beat them at home with a fully fit and our best 15?

French squad is the strongest squad IMO, their second string 22 would still push for a 6 nations scalpe.

siltirocker

T-Maxx wrote: »

Here you go:

Irl 16/1

I guess that makes it a "no"...:p

Jesus. We had much better odds (i believe) for RWC '07.

irishbucsfan

siltirocker wrote: »

Then why can't we beat them at home with a fully fit and our best 15?

French squad is the strongest squad IMO, their second string 22 would still push for a 6 nations scalpe.

Our first game together, hooker and tighthead that hadn't played in months.

If we were playing them tomorrow after two extra weeks together as a team and with a front row that had a bit of game time under its belt im absolutely sure we'd beat them. Australia are poor at the moment, they have a solid front row and a world-class back row but we're a far better team

Pisco Sour

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We know we can beat any of them on our day (Maybe NZ on home soil would be tough)

We have come a lot closer to beating the AB's away from home in recent years than we have at home. I can remember 4 games in the last 6 years or so where we lost by around 10 points or so.

bleg

ya. Sure our golfers are going great.

Beanmachine

For too long Ireland have relished the tag of the underdog mainly because they were, Now they need to believe they are indeed one of the best teams in the world and show a bit more arrogance. Ireland would need every ball to bounce their way in order to win the World Cup,but its not impossible the players and staff just need to realise how good they really are.

PhatPiggins

When I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be a thread about 20/20 Cricket or Bog Snorkeling.

shoutman

PhatPiggins wrote: »

When I saw the thread title I thought this was going to be a thread about 20/20 Cricket or Bog Snorkeling.

Why would they post that in the rugby forum?

PhatPiggins

shoutman wrote: »

Why would they post that in the rugby forum?

It wasn't meant to be a serious post.

sweetie

when the likes of O driscoll and O Connell go will we get replacements of equal calibre though?

Feeky Magee

We have a first team to compete with anyone, but I agree that the squad's depth is not strong enough.

If we get into the mentality of knowing we can take the SH teams, then maybe. But in reality, bar a kind draw, I can't see it happening.

South Africa at Croker will be interesting though, if we win that and take it into the 6N, then perhaps momentum will start to be gained.

pat_mas

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Our first game together, hooker and tighthead that hadn't played in months.

If we were playing them tomorrow after two extra weeks together as a team and with a front row that had a bit of game time under its belt im absolutely sure we'd beat them. Australia are poor at the moment, they have a solid front row and a world-class back row but we're a far better team

That's a bit of a belief ... There is no way I can see Ireland defeating France based on the displays of both teams at this very moment.

evysiren

why not

Sangre

sweetie wrote: »

when the likes of O driscoll and O Connell go will we get replacements of equal calibre though?

We'll be lucky to ever replace someone of BOD's calibre. The guy is a once in a lifetime talent.

irishbucsfan

pat_mas wrote: »

That's a bit of a belief ... There is no way I can see Ireland defeating France based on the displays of both teams at this very moment.

We beat that France team in Paris 9 months ago. We could do it again this weekend.

padser

I think it is absolutely ridiculas to suggest Ireland cant win a world cup. If we play to our ability we should be 1/4 or 1/2 final team most - and certainly at semi final stage its absolutely possible that we could overturn NZ or SA and win the thing outright.

It probably wouldn't happen though - we would need to quite a few things to go right for us - so odds are it will not happen - but that doesn't mean we cant win it.

Incidenly on the 16 / 1 odds - that seems about right to me. If we played the WC 16 times

NZ / SA - win it three times each
Aus / France - win it twice each
Eng / Ire / Wales and Argintina - win it once each
(and a spread of 2 WC's to keep the bookies in business!)

-- seems about right to me.

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We beat that France team in Paris 9 months ago. We could do it again this weekend.

No we didn't. We beat them in Croker in what was IMO the best Irish display against a top ten nation since the English game of '07.
And this French squad is arguably much stronger. Than the one that played against Ireland.

thomond2006

chupacabra wrote: »

The sad thing is that in the same podcast, after the interview Les Kiss came on and almost backed up the claim that a world cup would be a bridge too far for Ireland. I know he has to keep us grounded etc. but a bit of optimism would go a long way too.

Yeah, he sounded almost dismissive. :mad:

You need luck and a good draw to win the world cup. In 2007, the Springboks played Fiji in the QF, Argentina in the SF and England in the final.

I think we can beat any team in the world and win the world cup. For me, it's all about BOD staying fit and staying in form and also finding a replacement for Hayes.

irishbucsfan

siltirocker wrote: »

No we didn't. We beat them in Croker in what was IMO the best Irish display against a top ten nation since the English game of '07.
And this French squad is arguably much stronger. Than the one that played against Ireland.

Yeah haha! My mistake. I couldn't get tickets so I wasn't there, so now in my memory it was an away match..

We're arguably a better squad than the one that played against France, we know much more about ourselves. I wouldn't say that French team is much stronger than the one that played us.

profitius

Kiss was probably not trying to be too optimistic. Keep everything low profile thats the Kidney way of doing things.

Kidney always try to balance things. When theres alot of hype he'll keep the players feet on the ground by talking up the other team. When the teams confidence is low he'll talk them up and fill them with belief. In this instance he'd want to keep a low profile.

Kidney wouldn't answer that question. He'd say they take 1 game at a time which is the right way to do things. Remember the last world cup what happened. Expectations got out of hand and heaped pressure on the players.

pat_mas

Yep, Ireland won at home against France last year but don't forget the match. Up until the last 20mins, France could have won but then the green squad started to play with our weak scrum and that's when it all went wrong.

Now if you look at our current team, our only weakness is that we don't have a good #10 but when you have such strong forwards + a very competitive back line you've got plenty of opportunities even without a good #10.
The teams that can cause issues to the current French squad are the teams that want to play with the ball (and used to). As far as i can see, Ireland much prefers to kick and do some pick and go ... other than that well not much to offer.

danthefan

We can win a World Cup, of course. Just not the 2011 one.

anonymous_joe

We could.

We almost certainly won't.

Why:

Numbers - us and the Welsh both have playing populations around 20,000. Smallest of the big countries. And what that means is that while both teams have great squads, one or two injuries can fcuk that all up. There's only one BOD, one Shane Williams, etc. There's about a dozen Cory Janes or Ma'a Nonus. Simply because those countries have a lot more players than us, and a lot more of 'em are of international standard.

We only have true depth in full back.

Our first team is one of the world's best, but it has two flaws - the scrum and the breakdown. We need more muscle in the pack, especially more youthful muscle (*looks purposefully at Hayes and Horan there*) and we're fairly cack at the breakdown. I say that because the standard has been set by McAwe et al in the SH. We've no equivalent players, and that's the minimum standard.

If, in two years, we've a world-class 7 and tighthead, then maybe.

Chucky the tree

USA can win a WC, doesn't they will though. While Ireland have a far better chance of winning it the 16/1 chance says it all, and when you factor in how tight the bookies are it's an even long shoot realistically.

Aidric

Stransky was on RTE Radio last night talking up the Irish ahead of the weekends game and how strong a side we have.
We don't have the depth to win a world cup in the immediate future but if we continue to have success in the HC & 6 Nations then I'm sure that will have a positive effect on player numbers in to the future. Maybe then we could have a right shot at winning a world cup.

evysiren

except BOD who are the best players

twinytwo

Cuchulain wrote: »

I disagree. I'd say it would be more like 7th or 8th

Sorry but I dont think that Ireland can win the World Cup in the next decade.
There is a distinct gap between the SH and NH teams which isnt closing much.
We have never even beaten the kiwis for god sake.

This poll should really be set up after tomorrows match as we could tell a bit more then.

tbh if we lined out against NZ in a semi final by god we would give them a run for their money.. as for winning the wc... we have a good a chance as any.. i mean we on our day can beat anyone. In the wc it wont matter that we have never beaten the NZ it will come down to how we play on the day

Chucky the tree

twinytwo wrote: »

tbh if we lined out against NZ in a semi final by god we would give them a run for their money.. as for winning the wc... we have a good a chance as any.. i mean we on our day can beat anyone. In the wc it wont matter that we have never beaten the NZ it will come down to how we play on the day

No it wont, it will come down to trying to keep the same 15 players injury free through out the tournament as our strength in depth is fairly shocking.

Pisco Sour

thomond2006 wrote: »

You need luck and a good draw to win the world cup. In 2007, the Springboks played Fiji in the QF, Argentina in the SF and England in the final.

It annoys me when people suggest Fiji were a light touch. Did anybody actually watch that Quarter Final?!? South Africa were extremely lucky to win that game. Fiji twice knocked on with the try line in sight which would have put them 25-23 ahead with a conversion to come with just 12 minutes left.

If South Africa had played Wales in the Quarters people wouldnt have said it was an easy draw, even though Fiji actually beat Wales.

Same with Argentina. They beat France twice in the competition but if SA played France in the semi's it wouldnt have been called an "easy" draw.

twinytwo

Chucky the tree wrote: »

No it wont, it will come down to trying to keep the same 15 players injury free through out the tournament as our strength in depth is fairly shocking.

yes we do need a deeper squad... i can never understand our lack of props... but then rugby will never be the first sport in ireland if we had as many playing rugby as gaa then we would have alot more talent coming through. .

we would need at least 3 more props a second row both a bs and 2 os id love to see wallace move to 8 taking nothing from heaslip but with his power and pace he would cause serious trouble. and and oc

[Jackass]

Of course we can!!

And we have a new generation coming through better than the last I think! For the next world cup based on where players are now and where the young players will hopefully have improved more by the world cup, we could have a squad, and more importantly, if fully fit and on form, a 22 good enough to take on anybody. And on the day, we can do it...you can put together a very respectable 22 from the following players...we have lots of depth imo and it's only going to get stronger and stronger as more and more academy players of high standard come through. (and I'm probably missing loads of players)

Props:
Healy
Hayes
Court
Horan
Ross

Hookers:
Best
Flannery
Cronin

Second Row:
O'Connell
O'Callaghan
Cullen
Ryan
Toner
Caldwell

Backrow:
Heaslip
Wallace
Ferris
Jennings
O'Brien
McLoughlin
Ronan
Pollock
Best

Scrum-Half:
O'Leary
Stringer
Reddan
Boss
Murphy

Out-Half:
Sexton
O'Gara
Keatley
O'Connor
Humphries

Wing:
Bowe
Fitzgerald
Horgan
Earls
Carr

Centres:
O'Driscoll
D'Arcy
Wallace
Cave
McFadden

Full-Back:
Kearney
Murphy
Jones
Dempsey

thomond2006

[Jackass] wrote: »

Full-Back:
Kearney
Murphy
Jones
Dempsey

I doubt Dempsey will be involved in an Irish set up again. Gavin Duffy would be our fourth option at 15. Earls (although I don't like him at 15), Fitzgerald and Bowe can all play there.

subfreq

Both times the Aussies won it they had a fantastic first 15 but no great depth beyond that.

To win it you need about 5 or 6 genuine world class players. By that I mean guys that should be in a world 15.

Currently Ireland have BOD, Kearney and possibly Heaslip. POc is unlucky to miss the cut but Matfield would beat him by a nose to just about everyone's world 15. Bowe is another possible based on form this last calendar year.

By 2011 Earls, Sexton, Fitz, Ferris and Healy could all push their way into that bracket. They have the potential.

ROG will still be there as one of the most experienced fly halves in the world.

If Declan keeps this group together and hits a peak for the tournament then I think Ireland are a very serious contender.

Biggest hurdle is beating the All Blacks and getting that monkey off their back next Autmun. If they can do that then I think the sky is the limit.

T-Maxx

4/1 so far, jaysus, someone please phone up Paddy Power and tell him the odss are completely wrong...