High Velocity .22 rimfire bullets

fiestaman

Lads is there anyone on ere using HV in there .22. just woundering is there a good brand to use. my gun is cz452 and was using subs all the time but was thnging of using the HV for flatter trajectory. i no i cant use a silencer but i dont mind that.

pm.

Hi i use cci velocitor and find them really good.

cavan shooter

used velocitor and stingers (though I think they are a hyper velocity round) in my 452 when I had it also used remington golden bulletts, cci mini mags try also winchesters

Feidhlim Dignan

CCI stingers i find best there a coper plated hollow point 32 grain bullet quoted velocity is 1640fps

lucy333springer

Fiesta, why do think you can't use a moderator with hv's, I keep mine on all the time, shooting hv's, sub's, cb's ?

clivej

HV try getting a good group with them. Then your'll go back to using the subs.

fiestaman

I mean using the HV at the same distance as the subs,no further than 80yrds. are they tthat bad even at 80yrds. i know you can use the silencer but i meant it was ineffective with HV's.

CJhaughey

I don't really rate HV anymore, less accurate and noisier than Subs.
I have some Win. Super-X and CCI minimags and some Remington Cyclone but thats all the HV .22 stuff I have left.
I have still hit and killed rabbits with subs out to 80-90m so a few extra feet doesn't make that much difference.
The Mod makes a difference even with HV ammo! You still get the crack but not the pop.
If you want a flatter shooting rimmy use a .17 Mach2 but be prepared for ammo sticker shock!

rrpc

fiestaman wrote: »

I mean using the HV at the same distance as the subs,no further than 80yrds. are they tthat bad even at 80yrds. i know you can use the silencer but i meant it was ineffective with HV's.

HV's are generally lighter than subs and so more susceptible to wind. More recoil, so again will affect accuracy and they just don't seem to group as well as you'd expect so there may be quality issues also.

bunny shooter

Winchester "Laser" or "Powerpoint" if you can find 'em

ivanthehunter

bunny shooter wrote: »

Winchester "Laser" or "Powerpoint" if you can find 'em

What are they?? And where can i get me some!


Best i have found are the velocitors and i have weighed them.. but i still got fliers

bunny shooter

"Powerpoint" were available last year in my local dealers. None left now Anyone comes across them let me know

"Laser" Paul in Drangan usually has them. HV HP .22lr, very good I find

http://www.guncity.co.nz/winchester-laser-.22lr-brick-xidp97147.html

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=144655

happyjack

pm. wrote: »

Hi i use cci velocitor and find them really good.

Yeah, I've found CCI Velocitors great, it's 40 grain hollow point doing about 1300fps, I found them to be more accurate the most high velocity fodder, plus they do a good job on anchoring rabbits at longer ranges.

Theirs a bulk box of Federals (525 rounds per box) doing the rounds for 20 to 30 euro, it's okish stuff for the money but I'm not totally sure if they'd be good for a barrel long term.

I find that subsonics beat the wind better than high velocity stuff and is more accurate, just not as flat shooter.

Winchester 40 grain hollow point subsonics are a great killer, you can really hear the impact of the bullet if they connect.

Good hunting,

HJ

CJhaughey

happyjack wrote: »

Theirs a bulk box of Federals (525 rounds per box) doing the rounds for 20 to 30 euro, it's okish stuff for the money but I'm not totally sure if they'd be good for a barrel long term.

Why do you say that? All .22lr bullets are just soft lead with possibly a gilded metal coating.

foxshooter243

I find that subsonics beat the wind better than high velocity stuff and is more accurate, just not as flat shooter.


Good hunting,

HJ[/quote]

You must be the only person, as its the faster bullet that is less affected by wind:rolleyes:

rrpc

CJhaughey wrote: »

Why do you say that? All .22lr bullets are just soft lead with possibly a gilded metal coating.

It's actually a copper wash or some such slightly harder metal. Will leave traces in your barrel and would need to be cleaned out more regularly than the plain lead ones.

kowloon

bunny shooter wrote: »

Winchester "Laser" or "Powerpoint" if you can find 'em

... but Joe, what are they going to do about these laser bullets? I hear you can buy these in gunshops all over the country, and I know what I'm talking about, I'm a parent!

.

kowloon

rrpc wrote: »

It's actually a copper wash or some such slightly harder metal. Will leave traces in your barrel and would need to be cleaned out more regularly than the plain lead ones.

I assumed the Copper was used because of its ductility, it would strip off less at the higher velocity than lead. Am I missing the the real reason?

happyjack

CJhaughey wrote: »

Why do you say that? All .22lr bullets are just soft lead with possibly a gilded metal coating.

I believe some cheap ammo uses salts of some kind in the powder, thus making it barrel unfriendly, I had a niffty Ruger 10/22 for years, and the accuracy went after shooting about four boxes of that federal stuff, so I blamed the ammo, I mean really went now, the gun was really tricked out, free floated bedded barrel, two stage trigger that released at 2lb, and after four or so boxes of that stuff the groups doubled in size for ever more.
So I think it's the residue thats left behind, seems very gritty.
I agree about 22lr bullets being soft lead, and I've read that a 22lr barrel should last 50,000 to 100,000 rounds. My opinion is that cheap ammo will shorthen barrel life. Theres no free lunch.

HJ

happyjack

foxshooter243 wrote: »

I find that subsonics beat the wind better than high velocity stuff and is more accurate, just not as flat shooter.


Good hunting,

HJ

You must be the only person, as its the faster bullet that is less affected by wind:rolleyes:[/quote]


;)Try grouping subs and HV 22lr at 100 yards in a 10 mph steady cross wind, you'll find that the subsonic ammo drifts less, it's due to ammo with starting speed below the speed of sound not creating as much disturbence in the air. Try it out for yourself, it's amazing, infact subsonic point twenty two ammo drifts about the same or less than the next caliber up 22wmr. Wind drift is the cause of a lot of missed shots when hunting with a twenty two, so even though the HV stuff is flatter shooting, it's just not as accurate and drifts twice as much as a sub on the way to target.

Point 22 long rifle rimfire Wind drift: 10mph cross wind thats steady

25 yards about 1/4" inch if you zero a rimfire at this distance on a windy day, your dailing in a very inaccurate zero which will be some 6"inches left or right at 100 yards, and totally impossible to judge and allow for a different wind effect, it's best to zero all rifles in totrally still wind conditions, ie, smoke not drifting in any direction



50 yards in a 10 mph cross wind is about 1" inch

100 yards in a 10 mph wind it's about 6" inches.

Heres how to judge wind speed without a meter, and its suprisingly accurate;-

Pull up a good tuft of grass, fist full, hold it straight over your head and let go, count how many feet it drifts from you, each foot is 1 mile per hour of drift, 10 feet = 10 mph.

On days of justy wind where it blows down range more, the wind will have far less effect on the bullet than if the wind was blowing strong near the muzzle, strong wind in front of the guns muzzle changes impact the most.

I've shot in gales in Kerry where centerfire rifle bullets were moved 4 to 6" inches at 100 yards and 22lr several feet!

The wind effects all bullets, but subsonics less so as they start under the sound barrier.

Ditches and walls make for very interesting wind effects on bullets.

I remember one night shooting a fox in a gale at 150 yards, aiming for its head and hitting him in the arse as the wind drifted the bullet, he was in a standing profile position, calibre was point 22 hornet, what you hear about the 17 Rem being a devil in the wind isnt true either, lock time, time of flight helps, calibres with very quick lock time beat the wind well, when I had a Ruger VT .220Swift it made light work of windy nights, that said I can remember being very suprised when shooting targets in windy weather seeing bullets drift I thought swift bullets would not drift, but all bullets drift in the wind, just some more than others.

In windy weather it's best to wait for a profile shot and let the wind drift the bullet on to the pest, more lee way for mistakes that way.

Good shooting

HJ,

Ps;- I reckon you learn more rifle craft from weaker calibres, bigger guns need less skill.

foxshooter243

happyjack wrote: »

You must be the only person, as its the faster bullet that is less affected by wind:rolleyes:

;)Try grouping subs and HV 22lr at 100 yards in a 10 mph steady cross wind, you'll find that the subsonic ammo drifts less, it's due to ammo with starting speed below the speed of sound not creating as much disturbence in the air. Try it out for yourself, it's amazing, infact subsonic point twenty two ammo drifts about the same or less than the next caliber up 22wmr. Wind drift is the cause of a lot of missed shots when hunting with a twenty two, so even though the HV stuff is flatter shooting, it's just not as accurate and drifts twice as much as a sub on the way to target.

Point 22 long rifle rimfire Wind drift: 10mph cross wind thats steady

25 yards about 1/4" inch if you zero a rimfire at this distance on a windy day, your dailing in a very inaccurate zero which will be some 6"inches left or right at 100 yards, and totally impossible to judge and allow for a different wind effect, it's best to zero all rifles in totrally still wind conditions, ie, smoke not drifting in any direction



50 yards in a 10 mph cross wind is about 1" inch

100 yards in a 10 mph wind it's about 6" inches.

Heres how to judge wind speed without a meter, and its suprisingly accurate;-

Pull up a good tuft of grass, fist full, hold it straight over your head and let go, count how many feet it drifts from you, each foot is 1 mile per hour of drift, 10 feet = 10 mph.

On days of justy wind where it blows down range more, the wind will have far less effect on the bullet than if the wind was blowing strong near the muzzle, strong wind in front of the guns muzzle changes impact the most.

I've shot in gales in Kerry where centerfire rifle bullets were moved 4 to 6" inches at 100 yards and 22lr several feet!

The wind effects all bullets, but subsonics less so as they start under the sound barrier.

Ditches and walls make for very interesting wind effects on bullets.

I remember one night shooting a fox in a gale at 150 yards, aiming for its head and hitting him in the arse as the wind drifted the bullet, he was in a standing profile position, calibre was point 22 hornet, what you hear about the 17 Rem being a devil in the wind isnt true either, lock time, time of flight helps, calibres with very quick lock time beat the wind well, when I had a Ruger VT .220Swift it made light work of windy nights, that said I can remember being very suprised when shooting targets in windy weather seeing bullets drift I thought swift bullets would not drift, but all bullets drift in the wind, just some more than others.

In windy weather it's best to wait for a profile shot and let the wind drift the bullet on to the pest, more lee way for mistakes that way.

Good shooting

HJ,

Ps;- I reckon you learn more rifle craft from weaker calibres, bigger guns need less skill.[/quote]


In what way does the lock time affect the wnd drift on the bullet, could you please explain.

happyjack

foxshooter243 wrote: »

;)Try grouping subs and HV 22lr at 100 yards in a 10 mph steady cross wind, you'll find that the subsonic ammo drifts less, it's due to ammo with starting speed below the speed of sound not creating as much disturbence in the air. Try it out for yourself, it's amazing, infact subsonic point twenty two ammo drifts about the same or less than the next caliber up 22wmr. Wind drift is the cause of a lot of missed shots when hunting with a twenty two, so even though the HV stuff is flatter shooting, it's just not as accurate and drifts twice as much as a sub on the way to target.

Point 22 long rifle rimfire Wind drift: 10mph cross wind thats steady

25 yards about 1/4" inch if you zero a rimfire at this distance on a windy day, your dailing in a very inaccurate zero which will be some 6"inches left or right at 100 yards, and totally impossible to judge and allow for a different wind effect, it's best to zero all rifles in totrally still wind conditions, ie, smoke not drifting in any direction



50 yards in a 10 mph cross wind is about 1" inch

100 yards in a 10 mph wind it's about 6" inches.

Heres how to judge wind speed without a meter, and its suprisingly accurate;-

Pull up a good tuft of grass, fist full, hold it straight over your head and let go, count how many feet it drifts from you, each foot is 1 mile per hour of drift, 10 feet = 10 mph.

On days of justy wind where it blows down range more, the wind will have far less effect on the bullet than if the wind was blowing strong near the muzzle, strong wind in front of the guns muzzle changes impact the most.

I've shot in gales in Kerry where centerfire rifle bullets were moved 4 to 6" inches at 100 yards and 22lr several feet!

The wind effects all bullets, but subsonics less so as they start under the sound barrier.

Ditches and walls make for very interesting wind effects on bullets.

I remember one night shooting a fox in a gale at 150 yards, aiming for its head and hitting him in the arse as the wind drifted the bullet, he was in a standing profile position, calibre was point 22 hornet, what you hear about the 17 Rem being a devil in the wind isnt true either, lock time, time of flight helps, calibres with very quick lock time beat the wind well, when I had a Ruger VT .220Swift it made light work of windy nights, that said I can remember being very suprised when shooting targets in windy weather seeing bullets drift I thought swift bullets would not drift, but all bullets drift in the wind, just some more than others.

In windy weather it's best to wait for a profile shot and let the wind drift the bullet on to the pest, more lee way for mistakes that way.

Good shooting

HJ,

Ps;- I reckon you learn more rifle craft from weaker calibres, bigger guns need less skill.

In what way does the lock time affect the wnd drift on the bullet, could you please explain.[/quote]


Ok, lock time is time from trigger to target, my .308 takes one full second to travel 800 yards. Fast lock time like in a swift leaves the bullet in the air for less time there for less time to get effected.

Air guns have the longest lock time, they take ages to leave the barrel, let alone reach the target, so they take the greatest skill, holding the gun steady, follow through after the trigger is pulled.

Rounds like the 17 Rem and .220 swift which travel around 4000fps have an amazingly fast lock time, till the round gets out really far, then larger calibers begin to shine.

It takes real skill to hit things at a distance with slow bullets. Some like a challenge and enjoy the shot all the more for it, others want things as easy as possible with have to learn trajectory curves or wind effect.

To my mind its worth owning a 22lr for cheap practice and to hone rifle shooting skills, then swopping over to a centerfire for actual hunting.

Rimfires pay for themselves in money saved on cheap ammo and easy target practice.

I dont like the .243, I've never owned one, but I've gone hunting with others who did, never saw more foxes run off after being hit than with a .,243 using the wrong type of bullets, foxes were hit, infact dead, but not on the spot as they had 6mm straight through holes, so they'd run until the pressure on their hearts would give out, theirs a wee door on the heart which shuts down to keep blood pressure for awhile, but eventually it gives out 100/ 200 yards of running or effort needed to jump a ditch, I never have seen a fox run after being hit with either a .270 or .308 no matter what they of bullets used except FMJ, same goes for 220 swift and 22/250. 100 grain deer bullets in a 243 dont work well on foxes, no expansion.

Good hunting

HJ

Good hunting,

HJ

It wasn't me!

Lock time is the time between pulling the trigger, as in the sear tripping, and the firing pin hitting the primer. It's nothing to do with bullet travel time, as it's specific to the design of the action and the bolt, not the cartridge.

foxshooter243

happyjack wrote: »

In what way does the lock time affect the wnd drift on the bullet, could you please explain.

Ok, lock time is time from trigger to target, my .308 takes one full second to travel 800 yards. Fast lock time like in a swift leaves the bullet in the air for less time there for less time to get effected.

Air guns have the longest lock time, they take ages to leave the barrel, let alone reach the target, so they take the greatest skill, holding the gun steady, follow through after the trigger is pulled.

Rounds like the 17 Rem and .220 swift which travel around 4000fps have an amazingly fast lock time, till the round gets out really far, then larger calibers begin to shine.

It takes real skill to hit things at a distance with slow bullets. Some like a challenge and enjoy the shot all the more for it, others want things as easy as possible with have to learn trajectory curves or wind effect.

To my mind its worth owning a 22lr for cheap practice and to hone rifle shooting skills, then swopping over to a centerfire for actual hunting.

Rimfires pay for themselves in money saved on cheap ammo and easy target practice.

I dont like the .243, I've never owned one, but I've gone hunting with others who did, never saw more foxes run off after being hit than with a .,243 using the wrong type of bullets, foxes were hit, infact dead, but not on the spot as they had 6mm straight through holes, so they'd run until the pressure on their hearts would give out, theirs a wee door on the heart which shuts down to keep blood pressure for awhile, but eventually it gives out 100/ 200 yards of running or effort needed to jump a ditch, I never have seen a fox run after being hit with either a .270 or .308 no matter what they of bullets used except FMJ, same goes for 220 swift and 22/250. 100 grain deer bullets in a 243 dont work well on foxes, no expansion.

Good hunting

HJ

Good hunting,

HJ[/quote]

I think you may be a bit mixed up, lock time in a rifle is the time between the sears disengagement and the firing pin striking the primer , its by no means from trigger to target and has no bearing on wind deflection.

happyjack

Then whats the time called from muzzle to target?

foxshooter243

happyjack wrote: »

Then whats the time called from muzzle to target?

praying time:D

foxshooter243

happyjack wrote: »

Then whats the time called from muzzle to target?

Transit time I think they call it;)

puheen

Have to agree with happjack on those bulk pack Federals not being barrel friendly

i was given a box by a mate who traded his 22 and i found them an absolutly filthy round

i normally use eley or cci subs and occasionally velocitiors

bunny shooter

.308 takes 1 second for 800 yards ? No way

ronn

any one try RWS subs good heavy grain 45g i think,, but very difficult to find them though,,

if ya,s see any let me know,

bunny shooter

Had one box of RWS subs years ago, they were on the dealers shelf and had fallen down at the back of some other stuff ............. THEY WERE AWSOME !!!!!!!!

Never seen 'em since

ronn

there was an add in the isd a while back a shop in kilkenny supplies them, wonder would he sell them by the wheelbarrow,

It wasn't me!

bunny shooter wrote: »

.308 takes 1 second for 800 yards ? No way

It leaves the barrel at about 860m/s (for a 150gr, courtesy of Wiki) and immediately starts to decelerate. Depending on ballistic coefficient, should take a little bit more than a second, probably between 1.2 and 1.5 seconds.

fiestaman

ronn wrote: »

any one try RWS subs good heavy grain 45g i think,, but very difficult to find them though,,

if ya,s see any let me know,

East coast dog and gun in gorey used o have them

happyjack

It wasn't me! wrote: »

It leaves the barrel at about 860m/s (for a 150gr, courtesy of Wiki) and immediately starts to decelerate. Depending on ballistic coefficient, should take a little bit more than a second, probably between 1.2 and 1.5 seconds.

I believe you, it's like being in a old western movie shooting at 800 yards, bang recoil, then a second later you see a small bullet hole through scope on target then a second or two after that again the sound of the impact comes back at you, feels like shooting a twenty two at 200 yards.

Thanks for info.

HJ:o

happyjack

foxshooter243 wrote: »

praying time:D

Thats funny, at one time down here in the bog we used to be able to get tracer twelve gauge fodder in boxes of 10, cant remember the price but it was dear for ten rounds, shot size was number 6, shot a few bunnys and crows with them, it was really really funny, the poor crows, the look of surprise as the bolt of light shot at them with a bang, it was like killing game with shot and heart attacks at the same time!!

I got a box again recent, the dealer in fairness gave them free as he nows me well, the tracer element is in the wad.

Sorry, changed the subject there out of the blue.

I guess you like lamping foxes with a 243, any good lamping story?

HJ

happyjack

happyjack wrote: »

Thats funny, at one time down here in the bog we used to be able to get tracer twelve gauge fodder in boxes of 10, cant remember the price but it was dear for ten rounds, shot size was number 6, shot a few bunnys and crows with them, it was really really funny, the poor crows, the look of surprise as the bolt of light shot at them with a bang, it was like killing game with shot and heart attacks at the same time!!

I got a box again recent, the dealer in fairness gave them free as he nows me well, the tracer element is in the wad.

Sorry, changed the subject there out of the blue.

I guess you like lamping foxes with a 243, any good lamping story?

HJ

Ps, forgot to say you were right on the lock time, stand corrected there.

ronn

fiestaman wrote: »

East coast dog and gun in gorey used o have them

popped into him he only had them for target pistol, very hard to get:(

rrpc

ronn wrote: »

popped into him he only had them for target pistol, very hard to get:(

As far as I know, there's no-one with the agency for RWS or the agent doesn't bother with them.

Very annoying as they're a really good round.

It wasn't me!

rrpc wrote: »

As far as I know, there's no-one with the agency for RWS or the agent doesn't bother with them.

Very annoying as they're a really good round.

I've seen them for sale a few times in various places. Geoff had some centrefire stuff last I was in, Neil McVeigh stocks R50 at least and there's a place in Kilkenny that does the whole range, so someone's got to be bringing it in.

ivanthehunter

I think i picked up two boxes of RWS 22lr subs from cresent sporting! was about two-three months back!!

I think thats where i got'em??

Goosie

ronn wrote: »

any one try RWS subs good heavy grain 45g i think,, but very difficult to find them though,,

if ya,s see any let me know,

Got some RWS shorts from Duffys last week.

jingojonson

Hey did you try cleaning the barrel after shooting? If its residue thats reducing your accuracy cleaning should fix it?

Anyone else?

ivanthehunter

Just going to add on here!

Wouldn't a jacketed HV .22lr round shoot better than a simple copper coated?

I have heard of an air rifle designed in the UK called Dan Taylor and he has manage to form smooth rifling in a barrel by applying a die to the outside of a barrel.

This type of rifling improves accuracy in 22 air rifle pellets and Dan Taylor hoped to carry out tests on 22lr.
He basically claimed that conventional rifling causes damage to the contact surface on the bullet but that his smooth rifling caused less damage and was therefore a better flier??.

If it works it would be great! ??

bunny shooter

He's done it with 22lr Ivan was in a recent edition of the UK magazine "Shooting Sports" I think it was a 10/22 he made the barrel for and the results were exceptional

buckasssailor

what are the best .22lr subs to use with a moderator
im using CCI subs but cant get a good group and have had afew flyers but no duds in 1000 rounds
i have got a good group bout 1.5 with American Eagle HV .22 38 grain copper plated at 75 yards

bunny shooter

Best Subs IMO are Winchester followed by Eley

ivanthehunter

bunny shooter wrote: »

He's done it with 22lr Ivan was in a recent edition of the UK magazine "Shooting Sports" I think it was a 10/22 he made the barrel for and the results were exceptional

Do you remember which months edition?

Did you happen to remember any results from the HV ammo?

bunny shooter

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Do you remember which months edition?

Did you happen to remember any results from the HV ammo?

I have the mag at home. I'll dig it out for you tomorrow.

bunny shooter

Ivan

Found magazine, it's January 2010 edition, which might still be in shops eg Easons

If you don't get it let me know and I'll sort you a copy of the article