Would you be a teacher? - NOT FOR ALL THE TEA IN CHINA

jenzz

Im not a public sector nor a private sector worker - im in the redundant sector !

The controversy over yesterdays strike got me thinking - would I go in & be a teacher even for just a day.

Not a hope in living hell ! People go on about what perks they get, holidays, 2 months off, pensions etc etc.

30 little loopers in my charge for 6 hours a day, correcting homework. teaching them. verbal abuse from parents, physical abuse from parents, assaults from parents. Parents forgetting to collect kids, prep for tomorrow, board meetings, parents assoc meetings, calls to parents, union jazz, striking. Arts for the classroom, research -

Whenever the media seem to report on Public sector they always seem to say Teachers & nurses. God help them both - Ill take my hat off to what they do every day & firemen & Gardai & doctors & the frontline list goes on- I certainly couldnt cope- not for all the Tea in china.

--amadeus--

Pretty negative picture you've painted, not sure anyone would want that job!

But how many teachers daily reality is actually like that? Maybe in inner city Dublin, Cork or Limerick but there is a whole big country outside that. Lots of people like kids, it's a job that has teh potential to give vast job satisfaction, you can impact someone life positively (everyone remembers a good teacher). The hours aren't that bad compared to many jobs and you get the summer off. It's not physically hard and it is varied and stimulating. For every negative there is a positive!

jenzz

Thats very true ....

ei.sdraob

your title got me thinking

in wonder how many Chinese teachers we can pay with a 55K salary

hmmmm

ntlbell

is a class room where every single child is troublesome the norm?

i would have thought having a handful would be the norm

which is why you spend years studying to learn how to cope with it?

4 months paid holidays in some cases.

a few hours a day

sign me up brother.

--amadeus--

ei.sdraob wrote: »

your title got me thinking

in wonder how many Chinese teachers we can pay with a 55K salary

hmmmm

We could outsource it. Ship the kids out there at 6 and back again at 18 :P

Absurdum

new PS scandal : "Teacher refuses job over lack of tea"

Elmo

Having thought adults I can safely say that I wouldn't want to teach kids regardless of age. At least we kids you can tell them to be quite, very difficult to tell an adult that they are now just waffling on.

I agree with both above posts. But there is no way I would want to be a full time teacher.

What we forget about in these discussion is that frontline public sector workers made a choice to become a Teacher, a Garda and a Nurse. Just in the same manner that many people choose not to go on to further education after school since the money in Construction was better.

Do people still think that the public sector workers made a bad choice? As amedeus says there are pros and cons to all jobs.

ei.sdraob

--amadeus-- wrote: »

We could outsource it. Ship the kids out there at 6 and back again at 18 :P

would open the eyes of some of the little brats :pac:

and sure speaking mandarin is all the rage these days

outsourcing FTW

ntlbell

Elmo wrote: »

Having thought adults I can safely say that I wouldn't want to teach kids regardless of age. At least we kids you can tell them to be quite, very difficult to tell an adult that they are now just waffling on.

maybe that's where a teacher needs to learn how to listen better?

there's a lot of ways to skin a cat, most teachers know one.

ei.sdraob

Elmo wrote: »

Having thought adults I can safely say that I wouldn't want to teach kids regardless of age. At least we kids you can tell them to be quite, very difficult to tell an adult that they are now just waffling on.

I agree with both above posts. But there is no way I would want to be a full time teacher.

What we forget about in these discussion is that frontline public sector workers made a choice to become a Teacher, a Garda and a Nurse. Just in the same manner that many people choose not to go on to further education after school since the money in Construction was better.

Do people still think that the public sector workers made a bad choice? As amedeus says there are pros and cons to all jobs.

does their choice entitle them to a job which they cant be fired from?

or does it entitle them to hold the whole country ransom??

Elmo

ntlbell wrote: »

is a class room where every single child is troublesome the norm?

It isn't just troublesome kids it is all of the kids you have to get their attention. As I said I have thought Adults and you would think they would be easy to teach. No way after teaching adults would I want to teach Kids and Teens.

jenzz

How did they hold the whole country to ransom ?

Elmo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

does their choice entitle them to a job which they cant be fired from?

or does it entitle them to hold the whole country ransom??

No I think that rules should be put in place if they aren't doing the job.

The country up for ransom, please get of your high horse the government are trying to hold them up for ransom, why should the public sector workers pay for the mistakes of the banks and developers?

As many said there should be equality in terms of tax. The government just want to keep taxes "down" and increase the number stealth taxes. Stop being fooled by FF into thinking that we are a low tax economy or that we can afford to be a low tax economy, if you have low taxes be prepared for high stealth taxes. (High stealth taxes takes money from the consumer to shop in retail outlets or to have buying power).

Making Teachers, Nurses, Doctors and Gards redundant won't help the economy, they will all be on the dole. Same goes for all public workers.

ulysses32

A teacher without tea would just be a cher!

ei.sdraob

jenzz wrote: »

How did they hold the whole country to ransom ?

dont cut our wages or "else" < insert from below > :

* your house would burn down
* your house can stay flooded
* your kids wont get educated
* your operation can wait
* your passport can wait
* crimes wont be investigated and judged
etc etc


thats what i call holding the country ransom

now if we could replace the people who are striking with people who are willing to work

that wont be holding the country ransom

ulysses32

Or maybe a cher BA HDE!

jenzz

Exactly - more job losses more dole queues.

Anyway my point is teachers arent the only ones striking. Give mrs O brien in rang 5 a break - she didnt cause this mess, she didnt iniate the strike, she does a great job & they deserve a clap on the back for the job they do.

At the school gate this morning I overheard 2 parents: " & that stupid dosey c... out on strike yesterday, cheek of her. All the money she gets. Stupid B. & they were wrecking my head all day - noise from that f..in x box all day. Ill be f..ing askin her when I go in did she enjoy her day off . & she'd the f..in cheek to give them homework while she scratched herself for the day"

Thats what they are up against ! ( that was after scooping jaw off ground)

Elmo

ei.sdraob wrote: »

dont cut our wages or "else" < insert from below > :

* your house would burn down
* your house can stay flooded
* your kids wont get educated
* your operation can wait
* your passport can wait
* crimes wont be investigated and judged
etc etc

All emergencies were taken care of.

The government continued over the last ten years to hold us all up for ransome:-

*those extra fire fighter we could afford well no we won't employ them
*planning for floods ah come on we have a temerate climate no need to have plans of action
*Small class sizes no problem, when the election is on but we don't have any real interest
*More doctors and nurse trained in our colleges, so that we can reduce waiting list nah sure private hospitals will pay and you'll pay for your health insurance.
*Passport you want your passport, one day doesn't change the 5 day wait.
*More police, more customs officers, more judges, reductions in crime sure FG and FF will get them no problem

A LOT DONE, A **** LOAD MORE DO TO.

now if we could replace the people who are striking with people who are willing to work

Yeah I will just get those untrained non professional nurses to look after you.

Gumbo

i would love to try it out!

would love to teach Junior Cert Maths or Geography......mqybe venture into leaving cert Geography.

jenzz

ei.sdraob wrote: »

dont cut our wages or "else" < insert from below > :

* your house would burn down
* your house can stay flooded
* your kids wont get educated
* your operation can wait
* your passport can wait
* crimes wont be investigated and judged
etc etc


thats what i call holding the country ransom

now if we could replace the people who are striking with people who are willing to work

that wont be holding the country ransom

I WOULDNT BE A TEACHER FOR ALL THE TEA IN CHINA...
teachers - can only see them being responsible for educating kids!, They dont do floods, issue passports , operate, investigate crimes..

This is another of my points the public sector is not just muinteoirs so give them a break .,

Tim Robbins

jenzz wrote: »

30 little loopers in my charge for 6 hours a day, correcting homework. teaching them. verbal abuse from parents, physical abuse from parents, assaults from parents. Parents forgetting to collect kids, prep for tomorrow, board meetings, parents assoc meetings, calls to parents, union jazz, striking. Arts for the classroom, research -

I ref rugby matches every weekend. Also has 30 loopers, also get a lot of abuse from sidelines. I do it all for free for the love of the game.

I don't co-ordinate with parents or have to wait for them to pick up their kids. But the coaches do. And they also do it for free.

There's a major culture problem in this country. The public service is no exception.

Elmo

kceire wrote: »

i would love to try it out!

would love to teach Junior Cert Maths or Geography......mqybe venture into leaving cert Geography.

Now is the time to train

http://www.pac.ie/hdip.php

Elmo

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I ref rugby matches every weekend. Also has 30 loopers, also get a lot of abuse from sidelines. I do it all for free for the love of the game.

I don't co-ordinate with parents or have to wait for them to pick up their kids. But the coaches do. And they also do it for free.

There's a major culture problem in this country. The public service is no exception.

It is their career not a hobby.

Amhran Nua

ei.sdraob wrote: »

your title got me thinking

in wonder how many Chinese teachers we can pay with a 55K salary

hmmmm

Twenty four.

jenzz

kceire wrote: »

i would love to try it out!

would love to teach Junior Cert Maths or Geography......mqybe venture into leaving cert Geography.

Good on ya

BrianD3

jenzz wrote: »

30 little loopers in my charge for 6 hours a day, correcting homework. teaching them. verbal abuse from parents, physical abuse from parents, assaults from parents. Parents forgetting to collect kids, prep for tomorrow, board meetings, parents assoc meetings, calls to parents, union jazz, striking. Arts for the classroom, research -

Add to that
-Physical abuse from pupils. Teacher in my secondary school had his jaw broken with a punch, pupil was expelled. His parents screamed blue murder over the "injustice" of it all.
-In my primary school, teachers had to patrol the toilets to stop dirty protests
-Allegations of sexual assault against teacher, pupil later admitted that they were fabricated
-Pupils tried to burn down the school
-Pissing and sh1tting on the floor. Getting up on the teacher's desk, squatting down and having a sh1te on it before she came in.

Lots of other stuff too. And this was not in an inner city school either.

ulysses32

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I ref rugby matches every weekend. Also has 30 loopers, also get a lot of abuse from sidelines. I do it all for free for the love of the game.

I don't co-ordinate with parents or have to wait for them to pick up their kids. But the coaches do. And they also do it for free.

There's a major culture problem in this country. The public service is no exception.

I have a sneaking suspicion teachers all over the country do this for free too, or are all those colleges, sciath na scoil results in the newspapers fantastical wonderings of journalists?

ntlbell

BrianD3 wrote: »

Add to that
-Physical abuse from pupils. Teacher in my secondary school had his jaw broken with a punch, pupil was expelled. His parents screamed blue murder over the "injustice" of it all.

Maybe the teacher provoked the child with their condescending know it all attitudes?

maybe the child was extremely frustrated by teachers teaching style and felt he was being left behind and as they tend to be quiet young lashed out in a moment of stupidity?

it's never right, but there's usually a lot more going on behind these stories, but it's easier to just blame the child.

BrianD3 wrote: »

Lots of other stuff too. And this was not in an inner city school either.

not an inner city school's lets make a blind sweeping generalization about pupils who attend these are they're all from the "rough" side of the tracks

nice balanced argument :rolleyes:

Elmo

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe the teacher provoked the child with their condescending know it all attitudes?

maybe the child was extremely frustrated by teachers teaching style and felt he was being left behind and as they tend to be quiet young lashed out in a moment of stupidity?

it's never right, but there's usually a lot more going on behind these stories, but it's easier to just blame the child.

No but when you do lash out expect consequences, if hopefully the social services are called and a full investigation is carried out.

Just because someone is condescending to you doesn't mean you break their jaw. It's 5 years of your life perhaps the teacher is condescending towards you is because they have seen it all before and are sick and tired of trying to bash their head against a wall.

Its time people got over their impression that teachers talk down to students.
Perhaps if students acted a little more like adults.

--amadeus--

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps if students acted a little more like adults.

I didn't know schoolkids were adults. Better tell my 6 year old to pull her finger out and get a job...

ntlbell

Elmo wrote: »

No but when you do lash out expect consequences, if hopefully the social services are called and a full investigation is carried out.

Just because someone is condescending to you doesn't mean you break their jaw. It's 5 years of your life perhaps the teacher is condescending towards you is because they have seen it all before and are sick and tired of trying to bash their head against a wall.

Its time people got over their impression that teachers talk down to students.
Perhaps if students acted a little more like adults.

But the vast majority of them are not adults, they're young kids.

if they're getting sick and tired of bashing their head on a wall as i said maybe they should look at themselves and how they go about teaching.

not every child is the same, not all respond the same not all learn the same, not all act the same.

you must be able to adjust your style.

teachers in my personal experience were one trick pony's it's not good enough.

(not excusing the violence either)

ulysses32

I know loads of students who act like adults. They drink, smoke, complain about every bit of work they have to do, complain about their teachers, blame the Poles for there being no jobs, tell teachers not to tell them what to do because their parents earn more money and know better.....

Tipp Man

Oh let me see, here's the details for a secondary teacher

The minimum starting salary for a teacher is E37,468. The maximum starting salary for a teacher is E41,383.

A full teaching load of 22 hours per week, 33 weeks per year

Teaching salaries rise by an average of E1.5K a year for the first ten years. That figure excludes inflation related pay rises. They rise by an average of E1K a year thereafter until the top point of the salary scale is reached at E63,361.


They have it very tough don't they, why on earth would anybody be a teacher???????



Note: thanks to Bandroi in this thread for the figures which i have unashamedly robbed http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520

ulysses32

Tipp Man wrote: »

Oh let me see, here's the details for a secondary teacher

The minimum starting salary for a teacher is E37,468. The maximum starting salary for a teacher is E41,383.

A full teaching load of 22 hours per week, 33 weeks per year

Teaching load and workload don't seem to be the same thing, unless of course one does no planning, preparation, corrections, extra curric, parent meetings, tutoring/mentoring, administration, meetings, collaboration with outside agencies, etc.

Yes. i see where you're coming from. Note to self: stop all unpaid activity post haste!

ntlbell

ulysses32 wrote: »

Teaching load and workload don't seem to be the same thing, unless of course one does no planning, preparation, corrections, extra curric, parent meetings, tutoring/mentoring, administration, meetings, collaboration with outside agencies, etc.

Yes. i see where you're coming from. Note to self: stop all unpaid activity post haste!

most teachers i speak to can plan and mark and do prep work while the class works during certain parts of the day on certain days.

IIRC a lot of secondary school teachers would have periods duirng the day where they might not have classes and can do it then also.

some people are very good at prioritising their time.

there's a lot of private sector workers who bring home work with them

do prep work out of hours

etc etc.

it's not like these things are hidden before you do it

and not all teachers contribute as much outside as others

a bit like the private sector, so blanketing across the education spectrum is not a fair assessment.

ntlbell

ulysses32 wrote: »

Yes. i see where you're coming from. Note to self: stop all unpaid activity post haste!

and give back the wages for summer holidays?

sounds fair.

Elmo

I didn't know schoolkids were adults. Better tell my 6 year old to pull her finger out and get a job...

If your 6 year old is able to break someones jaw then I suggest that they get a job. If your 6 year old is suggesting that "teacher, was talking condescendingly to me today during my times table, I already know my 6 times tables, uhh" then I suggest you bring your 6 year old to a specialist school that can take care of Kids with high intelligence and can develop your 6 years olds marshal arts skills.

I was talking about Secondary School kids who should know better than Breaking someones jaw no matter the excuse and it is only an excuse. (bar the teacher attacking the child which would be investigated).

ulysses32

ntlbell wrote: »

most teachers i speak to can plan and mark and do prep work while the class works during certain parts of the day on certain days.

IIRC a lot of secondary school teachers would have periods duirng the day where they might not have classes and can do it then also.

some people are very good at prioritising their time.

quote]

Agree entirely, but correct me if I'm wrong but are those "periods during the day" included in the oft quoted 22 hours?

For the record, the majority of teachers never realise the quoted starting salary either as the vast majority spend years on part-time contracts.

Lots of people want to be teachers.

http://www.educationposts.ie/

Primary vacancies advertised: 95
Second level vacancies advertised: 15
Third level vacancies advertised: 0
Job seekers registered: 6,386

Just take a peek over here:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1022
or
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=621
To see how hard it is to get into that sector....

Especially threads like this:
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055524290

As to subbing ,as so many fully qualified primary teachers are unemployed ,you may find it very difficult to get work.

There are many fully qualified primary teachers looking for work at the moment, as well as those who will be qualifying in the coming months

thats actually my plan to ask to "volunteer"

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055491660

There are plenty trained teachers looking for work so you may find it very hard.

With the amount of people willing to do this kind of job we should, in theory, have an extremely competitive jobs market in this sector. The reality of a heavily unionised sector prevents this and prevents children getting the best most motivated teachers that they could.

Tipp Man

ulysses32 wrote: »

Teaching load and workload don't seem to be the same thing, unless of course one does no planning, preparation, corrections, extra curric, parent meetings, tutoring/mentoring, administration, meetings, collaboration with outside agencies, etc.

Yes. i see where you're coming from. Note to self: stop all unpaid activity post haste!

Ah hold on your only teaching 22 hours a week, that gives you a whole 18 hours to do the planning, correcting etc etc to give you a 40 hour week

Don't give me this bull about how many hours yer putting it, fact is its the cushiest number going

jenzz

& since when is it ok for anyone to lash out at another? Why should any front line work accept physical abuse let alone verbal.

Why should a teacher be abused by a parent just because Johnie was given out to in school today?

& not just because Johnie was given out to... because teacher gave him homework, because its PE day, because its raining.... Seen it all

Overheard again:

School finished 15 minutes early today due to essential emergency drainage work. Note & text sent to all parents, 1 of the many late collectors -" you would think you might bother your ar.. to send a letter out or a bloo.. phonecall"

Muinteoirs - is this normal everyday behaviour or are my kiddies in beruit?

& now add in Teaching principals.... Sweet lord - teach & manage...????

Elmo

Tipp Man wrote: »

Don't give me this bull about how many hours yer putting it, fact is its the cushiest number going

Why don't you do it?

Tipp Man

And ye have the guts of 5 months holidays per year

ntlbell

ulysses32 wrote: »

Agree entirely, but correct me if I'm wrong but are those "periods during the day" included in the oft quoted 22 hours?

For the record, the majority of teachers never realise the quoted starting salary either as the vast majority spend years on part-time contracts.

I had teachers in primary and secondary it went like this

"lads, pages 20-32 read and answer 1-10 "

now the teacher has time to prepare for tomorrow, mark exams and various other activities.

it happens all the time

ulysses32

ntlbell wrote: »

and give back the wages for summer holidays?

sounds fair.

I'd love to give back those hard-earned sheckles but apparently salaried workers are not paid by the hour/ day anyway! I'm told my salary is aggregated out over the year; similar to every other salaried worker in the economy apparently. Oh, to be paid overtime!

Elmo

Tipp Man wrote: »

And ye have the guts of 5 months holidays per year

And why don't you do it?

jenzz

Elmo wrote: »

And why don't you do it?

Because Elmo refer to my original post - I WOULDNT ! Hence why i take my hat of to all ye teachers. Everyones is naturally entitled to their own opinion but mine of muinteoirs is positive - the majority of ye do a sterling job, for very little thanks from both the parents & the system.

Tipp Man

Elmo wrote: »

And why don't you do it?

I choose a different career path, is that not obvious

Tipp Man

jenzz wrote: »

Because Elmo refer to my original post - I WOULDNT ! Hence why i take my hat of to all ye teachers. Everyones is naturally entitled to their own opinion but mine of muinteoirs is positive - the majority of ye do a sterling job, for very little thanks from both the parents & the system.

They get plenty of thanks, the monetary kind. do you know how much they get paid??

ulysses32

ntlbell wrote: »

I had teachers in primary and secondary it went like this

"lads, pages 20-32 read and answer 1-10 "

now the teacher has time to prepare for tomorrow, mark exams and various other activities.

it happens all the time

That's the luck of the draw, sounds like my carpenter who resorted to google to figure out how to fit out my B & Q kitchen!

Again, must revert to type and give inane instruction as detailed above. Don't think the oul cigire would be happy with your teacher!

In the immortal words of Roy Keane "Fail to prepare, prepare to fail!"