Next public sector strike confirmed for 3rd December...

Darragh29

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/new-nationwide-strike-confirmed-for-december-3-435640.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1124/partnership.html

Dannyboy83

Every shop North of Tipperary must be writing P45s as we type.

Sconsey

Well the first strike saved the govt. a couple of hundred thousand, pissed of tourists, pissed off those needing medical care, kept the shopkeepers in Newry very busy and reduced traffic on my commute to work.

Good job PS Unions, I am shaking in my boots.

BOHtox

great news I really hate thursdays in school

Oliver1985

Id say the Government will be happy another days wages saved now!!

glaston

Retailers in the North are undoubtedly delighted.

gerry28

Work to rule would be better

Darragh29

gerry28 wrote: »

Work to rule would be better

Public sector workers have been on a permanant work to rule for years. No change, no real improvements, change and opportunity obstructed at every single turn, despite pallets of cash having been handed over via the benchparking process...

ixoy

For those who voted in this dispute - did you vote only for one day of industrial action (today) or was the vote for just general strike action with your union deciding how much? Did you know you could be made go out again when you voted?

Can't see what difference another day will make - a view shared by most of the PS/CS workers I spoke to.

jenzz

ixoy wrote: »

For those who voted in this dispute - did you vote only for one day of industrial action (today) or was the vote for just general strike action with your union deciding how much? Did you know you could be made go out again when you voted?

Can't see what difference another day will make - a view shared by most of the PS/CS workers I spoke to.

I was just thinking this . From what im aware it was a specific date of striking was voted on but then again who looked at the small print?????????

Ok if the Government baks down at this late stage whatever they were taking in PS cuts where else can they or make up the balance sheet? BTW what date is budget on ?

ongarite

Great, I'll remember not to go near any shopping centres on the 3rd December then.

You would swear its the 24th December, not the 24th November today because I have never seen the shops as busy all year.

Darragh29

jenzz wrote: »

I was just thinking this . From what im aware it was a specific date of striking was voted on but then again who looked at the small print?????????

Ok if the Government baks down at this late stage whatever they were taking in PS cuts where else can they or make up the balance sheet? BTW what date is budget on ?

I think the mandate sought was for general and open-ended industrial action for as long as there is no agreement between the unions and the government.

It is absolutely fu*king revolting, seeing Peter Mc Loone, a man who resigned in disgrace as chairman of the FAS board, who is paid a trophy salary himself, well over 100K, threatening the government and the rest of us, as to the consequences of not complying with his and his members wishes.

If he stood over such imcompetence in a similar private sector position, as he presided over while chairman of the FAS board, he would have been arrested and questioned on suspicion of fraud and misappropriation...

ParkRunner

gerry28 wrote: »

Work to rule would be better

I agree. A second day of strike action will not attain the same level of support from within the public sector. I cant afford to lose yet another days pay anyway and have already cancelled my gym membership and health insurance.

georgelowden

its just wonderfull to come down off a roof and hand these people 30% of any money i made.....

Oliver1985

Second day wont do anything !!!

ParkRunner

georgelowden wrote: »

its just wonderfull to come down off a roof and hand these people 30% of any money i made.....

The banks?
The long term unemployed?
Those in need of humanitarian assistance because of the floods?

Gumbo

georgelowden wrote: »

its just wonderfull to come down off a roof and hand these people 30% of any money i made.....

you mean the revenue......yeah we all hate taxes but what ya gona do?

BroomBurner

I would be more open to a work-to-rule day, or even a week of it, than another strike day.
Work-to-rule has to be one of the most effective ways of making a point.

Darragh29, it's very unfair to say that the whole PS has been on a work-to-rule for ages, it's simply not true, at least not where I've worked.

Darragh29

BroomBurner wrote: »

I would be more open to a work-to-rule day, or even a week of it, than another strike day.
Work-to-rule has to be one of the most effective ways of making a point.

Darragh29, it's very unfair to say that the whole PS has been on a work-to-rule for ages, it's simply not true, at least not where I've worked.

You see this the very kernel of the problem here... I'm convinced that public sector workers don't understand how change happens automatically in the private sector. If you don't change, then you don't get the opportunity to stay in business. Even if you do change, despite all your very best efforts, you still might not get the opportunity to remain in business.

Are you telling me that wherever you work, you can change work practices or go to your manager and make a suggestion that will improve the standard of service for the customer??? Can you sit down with your co-workers and discuss opening for a half day on a Saturday or two extra hours two evenings a week, (unpaid by the way), to keep the ship pointing to port???

No you can't, and that's why I don't work in the public sector. I need change to happen to stay sane, so that's why I do what I do.

seclachi

This is stupid, I`ll accept the first strike as sabre rattling before the budget, but I think ultimately its a waste of time.

Lets take a quote from rte.ie

"Public sector unions say the Government has refused to engage with them on other ways of cutting the state pay and pensions bill by €1.3bn, without hitting pay, pensions or services."

I`m fairly sure those 3 pretty much cover the whole Public sector budget. I think suspension of reality is what is going on here. Nobody wanted a recession, nobody wants to cut pay, but the country can`t keep borrowing the ludicrous amounts of money is currently taking to keep the budget balanced.

Flex

Honestly, at this point I hope they keep up the strikes because Im becoming more and more in favour of the IMF coming in to sort this out. It might get the fact across that the private sector cant keep shouldering the burden of this recession alone. We all have to live in the real world. By the way, if some idiots are waddling around with the idea in their head that people think the public sector should take a paycut to avoid a tax increase then theyre wrong.

If you were working for a company where your employer was in the red and borrowing obscene amounts of money every week just to balance the books, what do you think would happen? Well, it depends; in the private sector you get short time, pay cuts, job losses, poor job security.... but if youre in the public sector, apparantly you go on strike and demand other people take the loss in income instead of you (because when the public sector gets a pay decrease then everyone has to shoulder it for them because its state money, but when they get a pay increase its entirely theirs to keep despite the fact its state money :rolleyes:)

Where in the name of God do people think the government will find somewhere in the region of €20B in the economy over the next 4 or 5 years without cutting their ****ing spending? It definitely isnt all gonna come from taxes (although personally Im more than happy and willing to give over a much larger % of my salary in tax), going by the Laffer curve Id say Ireland is at the point of diminishing returns. And please drop the BS "Durr tax dhe rich, them iz dhe gready ones widh awl dhe munneys!!!!!", give a real solution.

Nearly €500million is being borrowed by our government every week just to keep things ticking over, we cant keep borrowing that forever though. Are public sector workers aware of what the IMF would/will do when theyre entrusted to sort out our countries economy? Hint; theyll slash public spending (theyll do other things as well of course, my point is the public sector are better off doing a deal with the government because their attitude of "lol go ahead and try cut my pay, Ill just strike " wont go far with the IMF).

But then Im sure the IMF will agree that the public sector isnt in need of paycut too, given all of their convincing arguments and points

Iggy Pop

Decreased tax revenue + more unemployment benifit payments + huge interest payments = introduction of higher taxes and public sector paycuts/cut backs. No way around it.

Remember in the mid '80s paying 55% tax? I do and it could be deja vu all over again.

Something has to give. Nut up and face reality. Hope you didn't spend next months Mortgage payment on trays of Tuborg.

psycho-hope

there goes my driving test, oh well guess ill have to wait for another 4 months:rolleyes:

Darragh29

Flex wrote: »

Honestly, at this point I hope they keep up the strikes because Im becoming more and more in favour of the IMF coming in to sort this out. It might get the fact across that the private sector cant keep shouldering the burden of this recession alone. We all have to live in the real world. By the way, if some idiots are waddling around with the idea in their head that people think the public sector should take a paycut to avoid a tax increase then theyre wrong.

If you were working for a company where your employer was in the red and borrowing obscene amounts of money every week just to balance the books, what do you think would happen? Well, it depends; in the private sector you get short time, pay cuts, job losses, poor job security.... but if youre in the public sector, apparantly you go on strike and demand other people take the loss in income instead of you (because when the public sector gets a pay decrease then everyone has to shoulder it for them because its state money, but when they get a pay increase its entirely theirs to keep despite the fact its state money :rolleyes:)

Where in the name of God do people think the government will find somewhere in the region of €20B in the economy over the next 4 or 5 years without cutting their ****ing spending? It definitely isnt all gonna come from taxes (although personally Im more than happy and willing to give over a much larger % of my salary in tax), going by the Laffer curve Id say Ireland is at the point of diminishing returns. And please drop the BS "Durr tax dhe rich, them iz dhe gready ones widh awl dhe munneys!!!!!", give a real solution.

Nearly €500million is being borrowed by our government every week just to keep things ticking over, we cant keep borrowing that forever though. Are public sector workers aware of what the IMF would/will do when theyre entrusted to sort out our countries economy? Hint; theyll slash public spending (theyll do other things as well of course, my point is the public sector are better off doing a deal with the government because their attitude of "lol go ahead and try cut my pay, Ill just strike " wont go far with the IMF).

But then Im sure the IMF will agree that the public sector isnt in need of paycut too, given all of their convincing arguments and points

Your dead right, the government are not able to fix this now. We should support those on strike so that we bring forward the day when the IMF will arrive and do the required surgery, and they won't be fannying around with wooly talk of reform or "going forward", they'll just come in and start the chainsaw and take it to the public sector and then we might finally start getting somewhere...

BroomBurner

Darragh29 wrote: »

You see this the very kernel of the problem here... I'm convinced that public sector workers don't understand how change happens automatically in the private sector. If you don't change, then you don't get the opportunity to stay in business. Even if you do change, despite all your very best efforts, you still might not get the opportunity to remain in business.

Are you telling me that wherever you work, you can change work practices or go to your manager and make a suggestion that will improve the standard of service for the customer??? Can you sit down with your co-workers and discuss opening for a half day on a Saturday or two extra hours two evenings a week, (unpaid by the way), to keep the ship pointing to port???

No you can't, and that's why I don't work in the public sector. I need change to happen to stay sane, so that's why I do what I do.

Wow, you have some seriously romantic views of how things work in the private sector, and very outdated views on how things work in the PS.

Speaking only from personal experience, which is what I try to do on this site, and not pit around conjecture or made up facts, I have worked in some absolutely pitiful excuses for private sector companies. I've also worked for very good, successful, efficient private sector companies. IN the larger companies, change was indeed difficult, that's the nature of the beast. The bigger the company, the more people are effected by a suggested change and, therefore, it takes a bit longer. It also means that companies are not at the whim of some crackpot director (of which there are countless).

And to answer your question, yes, I have always had regular meetings where I have worked in the PS. Both with my own staff, and with my superiors. All meetings have been open for discussion/suggestions on how to imrpove work practice. Any ideas with merit are tried out. Of course things are slow, due to the organisation being big, and any change that may affect the public needs to be thought-out and not random. There is also the issue of informing the public of any changes to services, which is lengthy and once done, is difficult to retract. Hence, the caution with some things.

Seriously, Darragh29, what do you really think goes on behind all the doors of the various bpdies of the PS? If you think we all just clock in and out and do sweet FA, you are seriously small-minded.

Absurdum

the boards.ie hardon for the IMF shows no signs of softening....

Darragh29

BroomBurner wrote: »

Wow, you have some seriously romantic views of how things work in the private sector, and very outdated views on how things work in the PS.

Speaking only from personal experience, which is what I try to do on this site, and not pit around conjecture or made up facts, I have worked in some absolutely pitiful excuses for private sector companies. I've also worked for very good, successful, efficient private sector companies. IN the larger companies, change was indeed difficult, that's the nature of the beast. The bigger the company, the more people are effected by a suggested change and, therefore, it takes a bit longer. It also means that companies are not at the whim of some crackpot director (of which there are countless).

And to answer your question, yes, I have always had regular meetings where I have worked in the PS. Both with my own staff, and with my superiors. All meetings have been open for discussion/suggestions on how to imrpove work practice. Any ideas with merit are tried out. Of course things are slow, due to the organisation being big, and any change that may affect the public needs to be thought-out and not random. There is also the issue of informing the public of any changes to services, which is lengthy and once done, is difficult to retract. Hence, the caution with some things.

Seriously, Darragh29, what do you really think goes on behind all the doors of the various bpdies of the PS? If you think we all just clock in and out and do sweet FA, you are seriously small-minded.

I'm not small minded at all. I don't think you understand how "collective bargaining" works. It works by unionised employees collectively agreeing to changes in work practices, in exchange for improved terms & conditions.

So if you are in a unionised workplace, change is part of a process of collective negotiation and if you are in a non-unionised workplace, change is nothing less than an expectation that is upon you all the time.

So what's happened here is a minority of workers in Ireland are inside a process of collective bargaining, and have been pandered to for the last 15 years, and the majority of workers are outside this process and have no experience of exchanging improvements in work practices for improved terms & conditions, they have to run with change to keep their jobs...

The minority of workers inside the bargaining process now, better known as Benchmarking, are now upset that the cow has been milked dry and are demanding that the private sector deliver another cow with a fresh pair of tits...

I'm all for improved terms, conditions and salaries for productivity improvements, once those improvements can be verified and that the value for the improved terms is apparent for all to see. But as for throwing money at industrial relations problems or suggested problems, and automatic salary increments for everyone, I've a major problem with this and rightly so.

BroomBurner

Darragh29 wrote: »

I'm not small minded at all. I don't think you understand how "collective bargaining" works. It works by unionised employees collectively agreeing to changes in work practices, in exchange for improved terms & conditions.

So if you are in a unionised workplace, change is part of a process of collective negotiation and if you are in a non-unionised workplace, change is nothing less than an expectation that is upon you all the time.

So what's happened here is a minority of workers in Ireland are inside a process of collective bargaining, and have been pandered to for the last 15 years, and the majority of workers are outside this process and have no experience of exchanging improvements in work practices for improved terms & conditions, they have to run with change to keep their jobs...

The minority of workers inside the bargaining process now, better known as Benchmarking, are now upset that the cow has been milked dry and are demanding that the private sector deliver another cow with a fresh pair of tits...

I'm all for improved terms, conditions and salaries for productivity improvements, once those improvements can be verified and that the value for the improved terms is apparent for all to see. But as for throwing money at industrial relations problems or suggested problems, and automatic salary increments for everyone, I've a major problem with this and rightly so.

Now you seem to have changed the goalposts. First, you were commenting on how you wouldn't work in the PS as you wouldn't be able to abide by how slow it is to effect any kind of change. Never* once did you mention anything about these changes being in relation to pay terms and conditions. In fact, you mentioned change in relation to providing a better service to our customers, the public. Was it that my answer didn't quite meet the needs of your pre-existing views that you needed to then switch to talking about "collective bargaining" in relation to pay and conditions?

Try to make your posts clear and concise if you want some kind of a debate, you can't just change the subject to fit your needs.

*Edit to say that you did suggest working extra on Saturdays. Sorry, but you can't possibly say that that does not already happen in the PS.

westtip

Great news about more money saved - I reckon we might save enough in each strike to cut out the need for borrowing each week of the strike.

Asda, Tesco, Erne Shopping centre Enniskillen brace yourselves the southern Public Sector Tsunami is on its way again next Wednesday....

And nobody has one bit of sympathy for them.

And lets not forget post we have to save another 4 billion next year ...... the bearded gentlemen will say tax more more more....

Arnold Layne

I wasn't affected by this one day strike as the post still came this morning with my SW cheque as I am on a 3 day week. Why not put all Public Sector workers on a 4 day week in the New Year, working alternate hours of course. This way the country will save on the wage bill and pension payments and also the PS worker cannot claim Social Welfare for a 4 day week.

OnTheBalls

What I saw today in Ireland was not a strike. If you want a real strike come to france. One Day striking is pointless. One needs to strike continously for weeks if you really want to be listened to. I mean last year in Grenoble the lectures went on strike for 5 months!

Darragh29

BroomBurner wrote: »

Now you seem to have changed the goalposts. First, you were commenting on how you wouldn't work in the PS as you wouldn't be able to abide by how slow it is to effect any kind of change. Never* once did you mention anything about these changes being in relation to pay terms and conditions. In fact, you mentioned change in relation to providing a better service to our customers, the public. Was it that my answer didn't quite meet the needs of your pre-existing views that you needed to then switch to talking about "collective bargaining" in relation to pay and conditions?

Try to make your posts clear and concise if you want some kind of a debate, you can't just change the subject to fit your needs.

*Edit to say that you did suggest working extra on Saturdays. Sorry, but you can't possibly say that that does not already happen in the PS.

My posts couldn't be clearer. Change has to happen automatically, not used as a bargaining chip to take more money from the state...

lmimmfn

ahh carry on, have a few more strikes, saved me loads of time going to work today with no roadworks or school.

doc_17

Darragh29 wrote: »

IIt is absolutely fu*king revolting, seeing Peter Mc Loone, a man who resigned in disgrace as chairman of the FAS board, who is paid a trophy salary himself, well over 100K, threatening the government and the rest of us, as to the consequences of not complying with his and his members wishes.

If he stood over such imcompetence in a similar private sector position, as he presided over while chairman of the FAS board, he would have been arrested and questioned on suspicion of fraud and misappropriation...

Please supply an example of anyone in the private sector who has been arrested and questioned despite all what went on in banks?

you speak of the private sector as if it's the best thing in the world. Look at the private sector....raising the price of water containers 4 fold after the floods. Disgusting. Where's your outrage for that?

Just out of curiousity, what is it they plan to do if the govt. just ignore them and put the pay cuts ahead anyway?

All quit? Hardly gonna be worth their while.

Anybody watch prime time tonight, what's the deal, one person earning near €56,000 a year and they can't live

Darragh29

doc_17 wrote: »

Please supply an example of anyone in the private sector who has been arrested and questioned despite all what went on in banks?

you speak of the private sector as if it's the best thing in the world. Look at the private sector....raising the price of water containers 4 fold after the floods. Disgusting. Where's your outrage for that?

The private sector has its faults, I know for sure because I couldn't work for some of the empoyers in the sector, hence why I'm self employed. But the one thing about the private sector is that with the exception of the banks and I totally and utterly disagree with the bail out they have received and are still receiving, if you do not run an efficient and lean business in the private sector, you go out of business, that's capitalism.

There is a balance that we still I have to find, I don't put the private sector model of doing things out there either, but there is a solution that we haven't found yet, and we could possibly start to look for it if we didn't have Peter Mc Loone and his ilk out there not able to see any further than his own members narrow set of interests...

The unions could easily be a part of the solution here, I fully agree that someone on 30K or 40K should not be asked to take a cut, but what about those on 50K, 100K, 130K, 170K, what have the unions to say about those people??? They have sweet f*ck all to say about those people, because the likes of Peter Mc Loone and Jack O' Connor couldn't keep a straight face if they were ever asked to tell us why people on that kind of money should be told they are taking a pay cut in the order of 50%. Same for the politicians, what position are they in to ask people on trophy salaries to take a pay cut of massive proportions to sort all this out???

gerry28

hellboy99 wrote: »

Anybody watch prime time tonight, what's the deal, one person earning near €56,000 a year and they can't live

I cringed a little at that myself.

She didn't mention children so i assume she has none. If a single person can't survive on 56K we are in trouble.

gurramok

hellboy99 wrote: »

Anybody watch prime time tonight, what's the deal, one person earning near €56,000 a year and they can't live

Maybe thats the PS equivalent of 'struggling on a low wage'?

gurramok

gurramok wrote: »

Maybe thats the PS equivalent of 'struggling on a low wage'?

€22k coming into my household at present and we have one child, we're getting by fine, how would she cope on that :rolleyes:, probably wouldn't work for that kind of money. It's about time these people get a reality check if you ask me.

Dannyboy83

psycho-hope wrote: »

there goes my driving test, oh well guess ill have to wait for another 4 months:rolleyes:

Is it down to 4months now?

From 2004, I had to wait 58 weeks, failed it, wait another 56 weeks, missed it as I did a civil service exam, wait another 54 weeks, passed it in 2007.

Sent letters from various employers, all ignored.
3 years to pass a 45min test.

A lot done, more to do.........

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

lmimmfn

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Is it down to 4months now?

From 2004, I had to wait 58 weeks, failed it, wait another 56 weeks, missed it as I did a civil service exam, wait another 54 weeks, passed it in 2007.

Sent letters from various employers, all ignored.
3 years to pass a 45min test.

A lot done, more to do.........

I applied in September 2007 after being driving for a year, had the test in March 2008, passed it, tried the letters thing, waste of time tbh.

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Same as that, id absolutely love that in fact.

thomasvmh

More than half of the "strikers" took a sick day and went to Newry shopping for x-mas. There complaining about not Getting enough money but they can afford shopping sprees. Also they didn't even support the Irish economy, it's pathic and sad and corrupt and wrong. I'm in 3 rd year nd i'm meant to be doing an exam in June, that will go well with strikes every second week. The farmers have go huge cuts to a small salary and the strikers have more money than sense and they still want more. Typical!!!!!

lmimmfn

theyre reeaaalllllyyyyy winning the public over, its a joke.

irish_ninja

hellboy99 wrote: »

Anybody watch prime time tonight, what's the deal, one person earning near €56,000 a year and they can't live

I think the problem is that everyone in Ireland thinks that they need to buy a house and when they have a few cents left after the day they say to themself
"hmm I have a bit of money today.....this will last forever....I think i'll buy a house"
Why do I see people on the news against pay cuts saying
"I am barely surviving.(tear)..I have a morgage,car loan and credit card debt"
Oh no, what do you think that that this is our fault, that we made you do this, that you had to do this?
If you borrow more than you can pay back its your fault! Not mine
"But I lost my job"
Tough, you should have money saved so you can survive for lets say two years(and pay your morgage if you had one). You should only take out a loan when you are guarenteed to pay it back. You are not owed a morgage. You didn't have to go on one or two+ holidays a year and then come back and continue paying a morgage.
It's just stupidity.

ardmacha

More than half of the "strikers" took a sick day and went to Newry shopping for x-mas.

None of the strikers took a sick day. A few thousand may have gone to Newry with many others but this was not a majority or anything remotely resembling a majority.

Pudzianowski

thomasvmh wrote: »

More than half of the "strikers" took a sick day and went to Newry shopping for x-mas. There complaining about not Getting enough money but they can afford shopping sprees. Also they didn't even support the Irish economy, it's pathic and sad and corrupt and wrong. I'm in 3 rd year nd i'm meant to be doing an exam in June, that will go well with strikes every second week. The farmers have go huge cuts to a small salary and the strikers have more money than sense and they still want more. Typical!!!!!

Agreed. Two neighbours of ours, one a vice principal, the other a nurse, both got sick certs for this week, and are in Belfast shopping for a few days, staying up overnight, disgraceful.

lmimmfn

ardmacha wrote: »

None of the strikers took a sick day. A few thousand may have gone to Newry with many others but this was not a majority or anything remotely resembling a majority.

If any did take a sick day i sincerely hope a cert is required?

Pudzianowski

lmimmfn wrote: »

If any did take a sick day i sincerely hope a cert is required?

A sick cert may not be the most difficult thing to acquire, some might tell you.

lmimmfn

Pudzianowski wrote: »

A sick cert may not be the most difficult thing to acquire, some might tell you.

nah, its not that, at least it costs money to get