Boards.ie is obsessed with the Public Sector

imme

Just when you thought there wasn't enough time or space or words left, well here it is, ANOTHER public sector thread on Boards.ie.
Boards is a talking shop, right? So, it's fairly representative of society at large. Or is it? I'm pretty new to boards.ie, so wasn't on boards.ie for the Tiger years. Were people on boards.ie as obsessed with house prices/mortgages/child care fees/school fees.
I do understand the need to reform government (in all it's aspects incl PS reform).
Anyway the last few months people on Boards.ie seem to be obsessed with the Public Sector, is this a topic du jour or is it from a genuine societal/economic standpoint.

bad2dabone

a bit of both.

i think most people are just frightened that the country is ****ed big time.

i know i am

Darragh29

imme wrote: »

Just when you thought there wasn't enough time or space or words left, well here it is, ANOTHER public sector thread on Boards.ie.
Boards is a talking shop, right? So, it's fairly representative of society at large. Or is it? I'm pretty new to boards.ie, so wasn't on boards.ie for the Tiger years. Were people on boards.ie as obsessed with house prices/mortgages/child care fees/school fees.
I do understand the need to reform government (in all it's aspects incl PS reform).
Anyway the last few months people on Boards.ie seem to be obsessed with the Public Sector, is this a topic du jour or is it from a genuine societal/economic standpoint.

Maybe people are obsessed because they are paying for it for a start. This isn't their (public sector workers) fault to be honest... This government let this partnership process become a private forum for unionised public sector and a small number of private sector workers, while excluding many other people such as the unemployed (nearly at 500,000 people now), and the vast majority of non-unionised private sector workers. Of course people are right to be angry now that this madness is continuing, more partnership talks behind closed doors while the majority of the people in the country have no real input into the process, there is no balance to any of this, that is what is making people angry I think, it's more of the same, more talking behind closed doors with everyone who is at the table paid well in excess of 100K...

imme

I see a few more threads have been added to the bloated lot of Boards. Shopping Action, further strike action, any chance of any more?

There was me thinking Obsession was a perfume by Calvin Cline.

Gumbo

imme wrote: »

I see a few more threads have been added to the bloated lot of Boards. Shopping Action, further strike action, any chance of any more?

There was me thinking Obsession was a perfume by Calvin Cline.

well you were totally wrong....its by Calvin Klein

bridgitt

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

imme

bridgitt wrote: »

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

by people starting up 75,000 threads on the subject on a discussion forum, what will this accomplish?
In the Tiger years were people as obsessed with current affairs/economics. Were people on here advocating pay restraint, value for money auditing in government expenditure, reform of the Dáil, abolition of the Seanad, reform of a bloated public sector. Is it the topic du jour.

BroomBurner

The masses need someone to hate, someone that's easy to target. Who is easier to target than a faceless, giant body of staff such as the PS? With the added benefit of having loads of easy one-line insults to throw aswell, it pretty much writes itself.

cee_jay

bridgitt wrote: »

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

And why exactly do you think it is justifiable?

brayblue24

Of all the related threads on Boards there has been more sense spoken on this one page alone than the rest of them combined. We need to remember that no matter which "side" one is on (I work in the public sector for what it's worth) the long term repercusssions of this manufactured divide is what concerns me. A divided society, no matter what one's occupation, is not a good thing-short (obviously) or long term. This is the 3rd recession I have witnessed-it is due to the last one that I am a public servant-but I have never witnessed this sort of spite and hatred before, and all for having a job to go to?

Short answer is Yes Boards is obsessed with the PS

Diom

imme wrote: »

by people starting up 75,000 threads on the subject on a discussion forum, what will this accomplish?
In the Tiger years were people as obsessed with current affairs/economics. Were people on here advocating pay restraint, value for money auditing in government expenditure, reform of the Dáil, abolition of the Seanad, reform of a bloated public sector. Is it the topic du jour.

As you say... I'm sure people were talking about Ansbacher and Ben Dunne when they were the current affairs.

What is your point?

privateBeavis

I'm new enough to boards.ie too and yeah its the topic du jour alright and seems to me that whenever heating discussion breaks out about the Public vs Private sector more posters against public sector, so would it be interesting to see what is the representation of public vs private sector posters on boards... a poll anyone?

The Volt

imme wrote: »

Just when you thought there wasn't enough time or space or words left, well here it is, ANOTHER public sector thread on Boards.ie.
Boards is a talking shop, right? So, it's fairly representative of society at large. Or is it? I'm pretty new to boards.ie, so wasn't on boards.ie for the Tiger years. Were people on boards.ie as obsessed with house prices/mortgages/child care fees/school fees.
I do understand the need to reform government (in all it's aspects incl PS reform).
Anyway the last few months people on Boards.ie seem to be obsessed with the Public Sector, is this a topic du jour or is it from a genuine societal/economic standpoint.

Not just obsessed but they also seem to be buying the line pedalled by the media that somehow the public service and the unions are to blame for our economic plight and not the Government, bankers, land owners and property developers. Unless of course, many of the people on boards.ie have been put there to help the powers that be pedal their lies.

The Volt

bridgitt wrote: »

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

A lot of this 'justifiable' anger comes from Dick Turpin who wore a mask during the boom. Builders and tradesmen who made a fortune during the boom and who charged ordinary householders outrageous prices for the smallest task. It's extremely difficult to have symathy for those people who had no interest in Public sector jobs at the time as they viewed them as 'beneath them'.

BroomBurner

privateBeavis wrote: »

I'm new enough to boards.ie too and yeah its the topic du jour alright and seems to me that whenever heating discussion breaks out about the Public vs Private sector more posters against public sector, so would it be interesting to see what is the representation of public vs private sector posters on boards... a poll anyone?

We're all too busy working... drumroll please!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

imme

Diom wrote: »

As you say... I'm sure people were talking about Ansbacher and Ben Dunne when they were the current affairs.

What is your point?

Point 1: Is it the topic du jour?
Point 2: Are we obsessed with the status quo? Has any innovation/entrepreneurship been advocated by anyone in the debate (nationally, government, pol parties, unions, stakeholders). There are many way of skinning a cat you know. Do we ever think outside the box. Even if you don't like the expression, you know what I mean. Do we always have to think in a linear fashion?

Dannyboy83

imme wrote: »

Point 1: Is it the topic du jour?

I think the PS Unions have firmly and intentionally made it so.
There is a second day of action planned.

Point 2: Are we obsessed with the status quo? Has any innovation/entrepreneurship been advocated by anyone in the debate (nationally, government, pol parties, unions, stakeholders). There are many way of skinning a cat you know. Do we ever think outside the box. Even if you don't like the expression, you know what I mean. Do we always have to think in a linear fashion?

I think someone suggested tax increases.
Tax increases on a recessing economy=putting out a fire with petrol.

We can all take LSD and think our heads off, but that still won't change the fact that there is only one path to safety and there is no way to out-think it this time.

Diom

imme wrote: »

Point 1: Is it the topic du jour?
Point 2: Are we obsessed with the status quo? Has any innovation/entrepreneurship been advocated by anyone in the debate (nationally, government, pol parties, unions, stakeholders). There are many way of skinning a cat you know. Do we ever think outside the box. Even if you don't like the expression, you know what I mean. Do we always have to think in a linear fashion?

1) Yes of course it is! The country is bankrupt and the public sector are striking...what would you be expecting us to talk about on the forum dedicated to the Irish economy? Katie Price's exit from the jungle?

2) What? The best way of controlling public sector spending is by cutting the wages of over-paid public servants. There are plenty of other things going on, but that is the simplest, most effective, quickest and fairest thing to do. The private sector is not in a position to support the public wages bill as it was in the past, and if we don't cut spending we will condemn the next few generations of Irish people (our prospective children) to a life spent paying off HUGE debts.

The other way out of this is to pull out of the euro, print more money and de-value our economy!

imme

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

I think someone suggested tax increases.
Tax increases on a recessing economy=putting out a fire with petrol.

We can all take LSD and think our heads off, but that still won't change the fact that there is only one path to safety and there is no way to out-think it this time.

Putting petrol on a fire makes it take off surely? The economy is actually contracting, the government better watch out they contract it further.

I wasn't advocating the use/misuse of proscribed drugs.

SouthEast

bridgitt wrote: »

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

Your right, in fairness, the recession is all their fault:rolleyes:

Diom

imme wrote: »

Putting petrol on a fire makes it take off surely? The economy is actually contracting, the government better watch out they contract it further.

I wasn't advocating the use/misuse of proscribed drugs.

Less spending in shops by public sector employees is preferable to tens of billions of public debt!

doc_17

bridgitt wrote: »

There is a huge amount of justifiable anger at those who have secure, well paid , well pensioned work and who are striking.

I agree. Although it does come through as jealousy from some. No public servant should be earning more than 100k

Darragh29

Diom wrote: »

1) Yes of course it is! The country is bankrupt and the public sector are striking...what would you be expecting us to talk about on the forum dedicated to the Irish economy? Katie Price's exit from the jungle?

2) What? The best way of controlling public sector spending is by cutting the wages of over-paid public servants. There are plenty of other things going on, but that is the simplest, most effective, quickest and fairest thing to do. The private sector is not in a position to support the public wages bill as it was in the past, and if we don't cut spending we will condemn the next few generations of Irish people (our prospective children) to a life spent paying off HUGE debts.

The other way out of this is to pull out of the euro, print more money and de-value our economy!

I think it's time now though that we put the public sector under the microscope now and have a day of judgement... We need to identify those that are on moderate enough salaries, those on say under 50K for the sake of argument and put those people aside for the moment and shake out those that are on 50K plus, and agressively cut their wages. For every 10K of additional salary over and above 50K, there should be a 3% paycut, so if you are on 100K, your salary will be cut by 15%, if you are on 150K, your salary will be cut by 30%, 200K = 45%, etc...

tommyfitz

doc_17 wrote: »

I agree. Although it does come through as jealousy from some. No public servant should be earning more than 100k

Im a public servant for 5 years and my salary is 26k as a clerical officer.
I worked for 25 years in the private sector. The company I worked for, closed down at the height of the so-called Celtic Tiger. Am I overpaid?
Im not permanent and can be let go in the morning. I have taken 2 sick days in last 5 years.
All I read about in the Sunday Independent is what a burden I am on this country. Its Tony O'Reilly and his cronies that are behind all this rubbish that is printed in papers. Divide ordinary working people and make sure the RICH get away with every mistake they make in propertry and investments in banks.

thatsa spicy

People who hate the public sector workers so much are often just jealous of the comfortable, worthwhile and well-paid jobs they have. Which begs the question, why didn't the haters get into a public sector career in the last 10 years? Oh right, 'cause there was far better money to be made elsewhere. :rolleyes:
It suits them to complain now.
I'll admit that I often get angry myself at how out-of-touch some public sector workers can seem.
It also pisses me off greatly when they say things like "we didn't cause the recession, why should we pay?". Listen, you had your pay increased greatly during the boom years to keep up with the incomes of your private sector friends; now its time to have them pulled down again.

People in the public sector should have some common sense and realise that, regardless of the fact that it is as a result of their own actions/ decisions, they are in a very very good position in comparision to most other workers and the involuntarily unemployed. I know the strikes today are just to make a point, but seriously, if those workers don't understand that there needs to be savage cuts, both in the areas of pay and staff numbers, then they are deluded.

We're going to be stuck in this mess until every working and unemployed person on this island bites the bullet and suffers a massive drop in disposable income and living standards. End of.

ParkRunner

To get back to the OP's original point..yes Boards.ie is obssessed with the Public Sector. The amount of productivity lost by the litany of regurgitated anti-public sector rants, not to mention the amount of time spent by the media doing same, has no doubt cost this economy numerous jobs and much needed tax receipts.

Darragh29

tommyfitz wrote: »

Im a public servant for 5 years and my salary is 26k as a clerical officer.
I worked for 25 years in the private sector. The company I worked for, closed down at the height of the so-called Celtic Tiger. Am I overpaid?
Im not permanent and can be let go in the morning. I have taken 2 sick days in last 5 years.
All I read about in the Sunday Independent is what a burden I am on this country. Its Tony O'Reilly and his cronies that are behind all this rubbish that is printed in papers. Divide ordinary working people and make sure the RICH get away with every mistake they make in propertry and investments in banks.

Right, you should not be asked to take another hit for the moment I think. But some of your co-workers are paid stupid salaries and you owe it to yourself to identify those you work with that are paid trophy salaries without having to deliver any results and put them out there for us all to see.

glaston

EF wrote: »

To get back to the OP's original point..yes Boards.ie is obssessed with the Public Sector. The amount of productivity lost by the litany of regurgitated anti-public sector rants, not to mention the amount of time spent by the media doing same, has no doubt cost this economy numerous jobs and much needed tax receipts.

Not to mention the time spend by public sector employees posting on this forum when they should be working.

ParkRunner

glaston wrote: »

Not to mention the time spend by public sector employees posting on this forum when they should be working.

Works both ways, but I think it is safe to say public sector workers are vastly outnumbered on boards, especially during office hours.

imme

glaston wrote: »

Not to mention the time spend by public sector employees posting on this forum when they should be working.

I don't believe PS workers would have access to Social Networking sites such as Boards, those that access to the internet that is.

Darragh29

thatsa spicy wrote: »

People who hate the public sector workers so much are often just jealous of the comfortable, worthwhile and well-paid jobs they have. Which begs the question, why didn't the haters get into a public sector career in the last 10 years? Oh right, 'cause there was far better money to be made elsewhere. :rolleyes:
It suits them to complain now.

Simply not true... The culture and attitude within the public sector doesn't actually suit most people. Most people want to perform better in their job over time, they seek out challenges within their current job and naturally seek to improve their work environment and also the service experienced by the customer.

This is the main reason why I would never have looked for a job in the public sector, it is a place that I would end up being completely depressed working in. Nothing whatsoever to do with better earning opportunities elsewhere, I couldn't retain my dignity and my sanity in a workplace that is so inherently opposed to change and improvement, so overrun with petty rules, union directives, promotion on seniority, collective consultations required on even the smallest decisions and change, not for me I'm afraid...

imme

Darragh29 wrote: »

Simply not true... The culture and attitude within the public sector doesn't actually suit most people. Most people want to perform better in their job over time, they seek out challenges within their current job and naturally seek to improve their work environment and also the service experienced by the customer.

This is the main reason why I would never have looked for a job in the public sector, it is a place that I would end up being completely depressed working in. Nothing whatsoever to do with better earning opportunities elsewhere, I couldn't retain my dignity and my sanity in a workplace that is so inherently opposed (1) to change and improvement, so overrun with petty rules, union directives, (2) promotion on seniority, collective consultations (3) required on even the smallest decisions and change, not for me I'm afraid...

(1) not widespread in my experience
(2) not at all in my experience
(3) not unknown, but not widespread in my experience

thatsa spicy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Simply not true... The culture and attitude within the public sector doesn't actually suit most people. Most people want to perform better in their job over time, they seek out challenges within their current job and naturally seek to improve their work environment and also the service experienced by the customer.

This is the main reason why I would never have looked for a job in the public sector, it is a place that I would end up being completely depressed working in. Nothing whatsoever to do with better earning opportunities elsewhere, I couldn't retain my dignity and my sanity in a workplace that is so inherently opposed to change and improvement, so overrun with petty rules, union directives, promotion on seniority, collective consultations required on even the smallest decisions and change, not for me I'm afraid...

I'd actually tend to agree with you on all this. Its just that I find it so :rolleyes: that the same people who, 5 years ago, would have scoffed at the idea of joining the guards now see it as an extremely attractive career. Same as teaching.

Darragh29

imme wrote: »

(1) not widespread in my experience
(2) not at all in my experience
(3) not unknown, but not widespread in my experience

I can't speak for where you work, but promotion within the whole civil service is on the basis of seniority. There is no appitite for improving the level of the service offered to the public unless the whole thing has been discussed at partnership level and a figure/salary increase has been attached to the change required. Go into any public office in town, just for example the CRO, they open at 9:30AM and close at 4:30PM, Monday-Friday...

http://www.cro.ie/ena/about-cro-opening-hours.aspx

These people start a half an hour after the rest of the workforce and finish an hour and a half before the rest of the workforce.

tommyfitz

Darragh29 wrote: »

Right, you should not be asked to take another hit for the moment I think. But some of your co-workers are paid stupid salaries and you owe it to yourself to identify those you work with that are paid trophy salaries without having to deliver any results and put them out there for us all to see.

I'm the only clerical person in my section, the rest are medical scientists.
Some of them are obsessed with getting more money for doing the same work. They werent on strike today because their union didnt sanction strike. I didnt vote for strike but had no option but to lose a days pay. Looks like another strike coming up next week.
I clock in every day but they can go and come as they please and 2 or 3 of them do. Also the attitude to taking sick days is disgusting by some of them. Its seen as a perk.

Diom

tommyfitz wrote: »

Im a public servant for 5 years and my salary is 26k as a clerical officer.
I worked for 25 years in the private sector. The company I worked for, closed down at the height of the so-called Celtic Tiger. Am I overpaid?
Im not permanent and can be let go in the morning. I have taken 2 sick days in last 5 years.
All I read about in the Sunday Independent is what a burden I am on this country. Its Tony O'Reilly and his cronies that are behind all this rubbish that is printed in papers. Divide ordinary working people and make sure the RICH get away with every mistake they make in propertry and investments in banks.

Sorry Tommy, but it has absolutely nothing to do with how deserving you personally are. The money for your salary is accountable to the public, and they deserve excellent value.
You are a clerical officer right? That job requires few enough skills so I'd imagine as long as your competent and switched on. Even still I wouldn't say you're over-paid, not right now. In fact for a man of your experience this is the kind of good value I would like to see across the board.
My problem is with people in your position who get 40+k for simply being "senior".

imme

Darragh29 wrote: »

I can't speak for where you work, but promotion within the whole civil service is on the basis of seniority. There is no appitite for improving the level of the service offered to the public unless the whole thing has been discussed at partnership level and a figure/salary increase has been attached to the change required. Go into any public office in town, just for example the CRO, they open at 9:30AM and close at 4:30PM, Monday-Friday...

http://www.cro.ie/ena/about-cro-opening-hours.aspx

These people start a half an hour after the rest of the workforce and finish an hour and a half before the rest of the workforce.

Where I work, promotions are on competitive interview.
In my experience I haven't witnessed a change/improvement that was accompanied by salary increase.
Some public offices mightn't open till 9.30, BUT there is work to be done behind the scenes you know.

gollem_1975

tommyfitz wrote: »

Im a public servant for 5 years and my salary is 26k as a clerical officer.
I worked for 25 years in the private sector. The company I worked for, closed down at the height of the so-called Celtic Tiger. Am I overpaid?
Im not permanent and can be let go in the morning. I have taken 2 sick days in last 5 years.
All I read about in the Sunday Independent is what a burden I am on this country. Its Tony O'Reilly and his cronies that are behind all this rubbish that is printed in papers. Divide ordinary working people and make sure the RICH get away with every mistake they make in propertry and investments in banks.

I have heard it said that at lower paid levels there is an even higher premium paid to people working in the public service over the people working in the private sector.

the government and all the opposition parties say that the public sector wage bill needs to be reduced.

you say yourself you are not permanent, therefore you may be let go in the morning so that your permanent colleagues get to keep their present salary levels ?

i think it would be preferable for there to be reductions in pay rather than redundancies.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

I can't speak for where you work, but promotion within the whole civil service is on the basis of seniority.

Not true. You are a long way out of date on that.

... Go into any public office in town, just for example the CRO, they open at 9:30AM and close at 4:30PM, Monday-Friday...

http://www.cro.ie/ena/about-cro-opening-hours.aspx

These people start a half an hour after the rest of the workforce and finish an hour and a half before the rest of the workforce.

The hours for public access to offices are not the same as the working hours for the staff.

Darragh29

imme wrote: »

Where I work, promotions are on competitive interview.
In my experience I haven't witnessed a change/improvement that was accompanied by salary increase.
Some public offices mightn't open till 9.30, BUT there is work to be done behind the scenes you know.

Again, I can't speak for where you work, maybe its an exception to the general rule, but for the vast majority of public sector posts, promotion is on seniority, for example 3rd level entities, schools, civil service, etc...

tommyfitz

gollem_1975 wrote: »

I have heard it said that at lower paid levels there is an even higher premium paid to people working in the public service over the people working in the private sector.

the government and all the opposition parties say that the public sector wage bill needs to be reduced.

you say yourself you are not permanent, therefore you may be let go in the morning so that your permanent colleagues get to keep their present salary levels ?

i think it would be preferable for there to be reductions in pay rather than redundancies.

Unfortunately temporary people like me will be the ones to lose their jobs so those higher up can keep their big salaries.

Darragh29

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Not true. You are a long way out of date on that.



The hours for public access to offices are not the same as the working hours for the staff.

You see this is more of it again... The focus is yet again on the employee and not the customer... The customer loses 2 hours of access to services a day so that the employee gets to do the minimum of work.

In the private sector, the doors stay open from 9AM until 6PM, often until 9PM and also during weekends, and people do what they have to do to keep the doors open to the customer and turn a few bob...

Honestly, I've never been more convinced that you people in the public sector, you just don't understand how the world is currently turning in the real market and the real economy... Sometimes I get angry about this and other times I just accept it because you guys just don't know any other way of doing things other than the way you know how to do it in your insulated working environment and I mean this genuinely.... It's like wanting to kick your new dog for sh*tting on your new carpet, you don't do it because you know the poor dog just doesn't get the problem...

tommyfitz

Diom wrote: »

Sorry Tommy, but it has absolutely nothing to do with how deserving you personally are. The money for your salary is accountable to the public, and they deserve excellent value.
You are a clerical officer right? That job requires few enough skills so I'd imagine as long as your competent and switched on. Even still I wouldn't say you're over-paid, not right now. In fact for a man of your experience this is the kind of good value I would like to see across the board.
My problem is with people in your position who get 40+k for simply being "senior".

When I joined public sector, my 25 years work in private sector was totally disregarded. Yet a postman can carry his public sector years service with him into HSE or any County Council. The same applies to Aer Lingus employees. I know 2 people who did this. But neither An Post, Aer Lingus or ESB Workers were targeted by Pension levy. Why?

Wheety

Darragh29 wrote: »

Again, I can't speak for where you work, maybe its an exception to the general rule, but for the vast majority of public sector posts, promotion is on seniority, for example 3rd level entities, schools, civil service, etc...

You are just wrong on this point, well as far as the Civil Service is concerned anyway.

In the Civil Service you have to do an exam and then an interview if you're going for promotion.

Wheety

Darragh29 wrote: »

You see this is more of it again... The focus is yet again on the employee and not the customer... The customer loses 2 hours of access to services a day so that the employee gets to do the minimum of work.

In the private sector, the doors stay open from 9AM until 6PM, often until 9PM and also during weekends, and people do what they have to do to keep the doors open to the customer and turn a few bob...

Honestly, I've never been more convinced that you people in the public sector, you just don't understand how the world is currently turning in the real market and the real economy... Sometimes I get angry about this and other times I just accept it because you guys just don't know any other way of doing things other than the way you know how to do it in your insulated working environment and I mean this genuinely.... It's like wanting to kick your new dog for sh*tting on your new carpet, you don't do it because you know the poor dog just doesn't get the problem...

In what area of the private sector are you talking about?

Banks open 10-4 in general.

zootroid

SouthEast wrote: »

Your right, in fairness, the recession is all their fault:rolleyes:

I disagree with comments like this. First of all, there are numerous groups who played a role in Ireland's current problems. For example, where was the financial regulator (public sector) when it was supposed to be keeping an eye on the banks? It is easy to simply blame the banks, politicians and property developers, but people still bought into the property boom because of their own greed. (I'm not saying banks and property developers should be absolved of any blame, just that there was more than factor to the problems we currently face).

Secondly, saying the recession "is not our fault" is irrelevant. The country is borrowing heavily to spend money it hasn't got. This has to stop, and making cuts to the public sector pay bill is just one area where this can be done.

Of course I feel for ordinary workers at the lower end of the scale, and also feel that those earning more (especially politicians) should have their pay reduced before anybody else. But this won't solve all our problems either.

graduate

promotion is on seniority, for example 3rd level entities,

I don't know about ITs, but this is not true academics at Universities. Promotion requires a good performance in research etc. Some people never proceed beyond the grade they enter at. Do you actually know anything about "3rd level entities" or are you just making it up as you go along, like the government.

P. Breathnach

Darragh29 wrote: »

You see this is more of it again... The focus is yet again on the employee and not the customer... The customer loses 2 hours of access to services a day so that the employee gets to do the minimum of work.

In the private sector, the doors stay open from 9AM until 6PM, often until 9PM and also during weekends, and people do what they have to do to keep the doors open to the customer and turn a few bob...

Banks are in the private sector; they don't keep the doors open for the hours you describe.

ParkRunner

Darragh29 wrote: »

Again, I can't speak for where you work, maybe its an exception to the general rule, but for the vast majority of public sector posts, promotion is on seniority, for example 3rd level entities, schools, civil service, etc...

You can scrap the civil service from that list because promotion in the civil service is based on a competitive selection process and has nothing to do with seniority.

brianthebard

doc_17 wrote: »

I agree. Although it does come through as jealousy from some. No public servant should be earning more than 100k

How many public servants are earning over that?

Absurdum

Darragh29 wrote: »

I can't speak for where you work, but promotion within the whole civil service is on the basis of seniority. There is no appitite for improving the level of the service offered to the public unless the whole thing has been discussed at partnership level and a figure/salary increase has been attached to the change required. Go into any public office in town, just for example the CRO, they open at 9:30AM and close at 4:30PM, Monday-Friday...

http://www.cro.ie/ena/about-cro-opening-hours.aspx

These people start a half an hour after the rest of the workforce and finish an hour and a half before the rest of the workforce.

Offices generally stay open to suit demand, they can't please everyone. If they were to operate from 8am to 8pm, they'd need to either pay overtime or employ more staff. You can't have it every way.