Raison D'etre for Boards.

DeVore

I've been working on a basic, short declaration of the long term purpose, raison d'etre, mission statement, call it what you will.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

---

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Its holds these tenets at its core.

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

---

Thoughts?

DeV.

tbh

thoughts are: I agree. As would 90% of posters. It's the 10% you're writing that post for, and they are the 10% who either won't read it, or will read it and won't care. So should you bother? I know it stresses you out, is it worth it? I don't like being so negative, but....it is what it is brother.

DeVore

I'm not taking a vote here
I'm looking for people to add or subtract from it with logical reasons for 'why'. I've found that the best way forward is to "check my head" before committing to something which then has to be corrected on day 2.

There is a lot more behind this document but you are right, most people wont care. I think its important and will become more important as we move forward. Right now, I'd like to nail a decent "objective".

DeV.

Orion

I'd change 3 to "The membership is a privilege which can be revoked for breach of #1 or #2"

seamus

Macros42 wrote: »

I'd change 3 to "The membership is a privilege which can be revoked for breach of #1 or #2"

But now you're applying conditions to it and someone will try to fight a siteban because they didn't breach #1 or #2.

tbh

seamus wrote: »

But now you're applying conditions to it and someone will try to fight a siteban because they didn't breach #1 or #2.

exactly. Ok, if you're looking for contributions, then keep it simple.

"Boards.ie reserves the right to withdraw membership for any reason. If you have a problem with that, don't sign up"

Asiaprod

I prefer it to be open ended and not specific to any one thing. There are many reasons why a membership can be revoked and it is impossible to list them all.

3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

FlutterinBantam

DeVore wrote: »

I've been working on a basic, short declaration of the long term purpose, raison d'etre, mission statement, call it what you will.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

---

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Its holds these tenets at its core.

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

---

Thoughts?

DeV.

I'd definitely remove the comma after 'that true'.

Seems to refer to the opening paragraph.

Oryx

Ive read your tenets, and they are nicely succinct. The main thing I personally hope that boards maintains, is respect for other posters. I think what you are saying is trying to ensure that.

There is already so much muck and 3-second-attention-span type sites on the net, I hope that boards is more than that, that there is no dumbing down here. To me its like a real life/real time/personal, information and social centre. It is civillised, and sane. Mostly. Thats what I like about the place.

The only other point I have, and it seems contradictory, is that the mission statement comes across as a little po-faced. Boards is also slightly nuts, in a good way. You need to find a balance and place for that amongst the respect and civillity.

seamus

Having looked at it again, I would remove the words "true" and "meaningful" from point 1 and replace them with a single word - worthwhile.

The best threads aren't always true, and are not always meaningful, but they're always worthwhile.

dr.bollocko

Hehehe
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055748913
Great minds and all that.

Terry

DeVore wrote: »

I've been working on a basic, short declaration of the long term purpose, raison d'etre, mission statement, call it what you will.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

---

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Its holds these tenets at its core.

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

---

Thoughts?

DeV.

That's very hard to put a standard on.
What's reasonable to some is unreasonable to others.
I'd add something like within the rules to the end of it.

The same could be said for civility.
A couple of weeks ago, I banned someone from AH for what was a mild insult.
Some people questioned the ban and said that I shouldn't have banned someone for something so tame.
They felt that the word used shouldn't have been classed as an insult. I took the hardline approach that any personal attack is a bannable offence.

Basically, you can't please all of the people all of the time. Clauses in this mission statement are needed.

Dades

I have a little issue with the word "mature". The entire site isn't a conduit for mature discussion (and long may that remain the case). So maybe not inferring it is would be prudent?

Maybe this instead?

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the open and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Terry

@Dades, you can't claim open discussion is allowed here.
People interpret open in their own way and will cry oppression if their thread is locked or they are banned.

Now, I'm not complaining about this. I'm fully aware that it's not possible to have a site with full open discussion hosted in this country.

--amadeus--

seamus wrote: »

Having looked at it again, I would remove the words "true" and "meaningful" from point 1 and replace them with a single word - worthwhile.

The best threads aren't always true, and are not always meaningful, but they're always worthwhile.

Or replace "true" and "meaningful" with "interesting". Because not only is good discussion not always either true or meaningful it is often not worthwhile. But it should always be interesting

Dades wrote: »

I have a little issue with the word "mature". The entire site isn't a conduit for mature discussion (and long may that remain the case). So maybe not inferring it is would be prudent?

I agree - no reason to lay down a standard of maturity. Indeed why qualify it at all:

to provide a platform for the discussion of topics of interest to its members

Ludo

To me that all sounds good until you get to the very last sentence (3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.).

It does not fit in to a mission statement/raison d'etre. Everything else in it is a positive statement about what the purpose of the site is and your vision...point 3 is a negative which appears to be tagged on unnecessarily. It should be a term and conditions apply kind of statement on an advert...not an actual part of the mission statement.
You didn't set up the site with a wish to ban people did you? Therefore this point is not a part of the core tenets. No need to go negative in something like this just because of < 1% of the users.

Just my immediate thought on reading it.

DeVore

one the basic things we have to get our heads around is that there arent any rules. We will never have a sufficient rule book for Boards.

So, its completely ok to use words like "civil" as they are going to be interpreted by the Moderators along with things like "racism". I also dont want to end up tying ourselves in knots trying to cover all the edge cases. I'd like to nail the spirit of the thing. To that end, I take the point about "mature" not being a terrific word in the context. This is the sort of stuff I was looking for posting here though, if I wrote it as a "fait accompli" it would have to be revised and revised.

DeV.

bonkey

The concept of forums (emphasis on the plural) is, perhaps, missing.

A central tenet of The Way Things Work here is that reasonable discussions also have an approriate forum (or, in some cases, appropriate forums). We have "homes" for all sorts of discussions, including discusions about problems, and so on...and ccnsequently, discussions are reasonable in an appropriate forum.

Maybe its a level of detail too far, though...its just that boards.ie seems to me to provide a collective of platforms, rather then a single platform.

Jazzy

DeVore wrote: »

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

---

Thoughts?

DeV.

sounds like a club. Id want to stay away from that image as much as possible

Papad

Jazzy wrote: »

sounds like a club. Id want to stay away from that image as much as possible

Which is the impression (to many, except to the club members) of boards.ie already.

"The membership is a privilege which can be revoked." is a bit much, irrespective of the fact that it is in private ownership. It gives the air of "ain't we lucky to be part of it".

Bringing a "Constitution" into play opens up a whole new can of worms.

Jazzy

it also creates the problem of mentality. if ppl join thinking its a 'club' and not a discussion website then any actual views they have will be skewed towards keeping it cool in da club. it will add to the already rampant ass lickery and do nothing to promote intelligent discussion

DeVore

I do want to promote a sense of "membership" of a community rather then just "somewhere I can rant", so I dont mind if it implies that. I take the point it might be a bit negative though.

The inclusion of the basic concept of "multiple communities" might well solve the issue of mature vs fun discussions. I'll try to reword things to take those into account.

DeV.

The Hill Billy

I've always been drawn to the community aspect of boards myself.

What about:

"Boards.ie exists to provide a platform of community forums for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members..."

and

"3. Community Membership is a privilege which can be revoked."

--amadeus--

I've always thought of / explained Boards as a collection of websites under a single URL.

And it's not membership thats revoked, it's posting privileges, which are slightly different things. You can still watch from teh sidelines when banned, you just can't take part.

Jazzy

DeVore wrote: »

I do want to promote a sense of "membership" of a community rather then just "somewhere I can rant", so I dont mind if it implies that. I take the point it might be a bit negative though.

i think it isolates irelands most popular chat website away from what it is though. its like purposely putting it on a higher tier then other sites simply to make it look better. it shows a certain lack of modesty

Oryx

Bearing in mind the points that have been made here, this is how it would read to me... much the same as your original.


Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Its holds these tenets at its core.

1. That discourse between members is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The the right to contribute is a privilege which can be revoked.

Overheal

This business of Mature and Civil - basically does away with the Cuckoos Nest, Thunderdome, After Hours, Lolocaust, etc etc. and yet what normally goes on in those forums is perfectly acceptable in those forums.

themadchef

Hill Billy wrote: »

"3. Community Membership is a privilege which can be revoked."

Don't get me wrong but it sounds a bit like exiling someone from a cult Hope Dev is going to wear some mad gear and a tin foil hat and promise us all a space ship will come for us .

When i joined Boards it took a bit of getting used to. I think you find your feet fairly fast here, and if you like the place you'll stay.

Number 3 sounds a bit like being here is a privilege we can take from you any time we like, and that's fine when you're in here and get to know how things work. If i heard that day one i think i would have skipped along though.

Just my 2 cents.

5starpool

What about:

Boards.ie: It is what it is, so take it or leave it.

Wibbs

themadchef wrote: »

Number 3 sounds a bit like being here is a privilege we can take from you any time we like, and that's fine when you're in here and get to know how things work. If i heard that day one i think i would have skipped along though.

Yes I would agree. I know it's not DeV's intention, but the wording of that may put a fair section of people off. That and the club vibe that jazzy referred to. I have heard that from a lot of people who lurk but never join up. I would suspect its one of the reasons for that and for those who join up and don't stay(which is a pretty huge number).

Hard one to balance in words though without it either sounding like rant central or at the other end cliquey in a bad way. Ditto with the notion of posts being "important". It depends on viewpoint.

I would be of the opinion that a mission statement type deal is mostly of use/interest for those who come up with it for their own personal yardstick for direction and the odd person outside of that who is interested. I would say the vast majority of users and potential users respond and react for good or ill to other more subtle things on a forum to forum basis. So taking the analogy of say a golf club; The owners of the club, the board and the commitaaaay will have a strong interest in such things. The average member/player won't really unless it impacts on them for good or ill in their pursuit of knocking a golf ball around.

That's not to say it's not important. It is. Nice to see it being discussed too. I'm not surprised it is either, which for me is a major thumbs up. Kudos on that score.

Fajitas!

I definitely think boards as a community should be part of it, as in to provide an online community/support/platform/learning experience for a range of interests. Tbh, I think it's one of the most attractive parts of Boards.ie in the long term for a user.

mike65

5starpool wrote: »

What about:

Boards.ie: It is what it is, so take it or leave it.

Quite, the charter idea is all rather pompous fannying about to my frail mind.

Boards is for passing time, imparting or absorbing the odd nugget of knowledge and just every now and again a way of alerting those who run our lives to a 'bustle in the hedgerow' that they might want to look at.

Earthhorse

DeVore wrote: »

I've been working on a basic, short declaration of the long term purpose, raison d'etre, mission statement, call it what you will.

Here's what I have come up with so far:

---

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members. To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

Its holds these tenets at its core.

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.
2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.
3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

---

Thoughts?

DeV.

boards.ie is a community of people sharing their ideas and experiences. We believe that how you behave is more important than who you are and that what you know more important than who. We believe that everybody should be allowed to take part in our community so long as they do not disrupt other's ability to do the same.

---

Okay, so I know you didn't ask for a rewrite but that is more along the lines of what I would go for if you had.

It places the focus on community rather than platform; platforms are two a penny and what distinguishes boards, in part, is the community.

By removing some of the adjectives such as "true", "meaningful", "civil", you also remove the pedantry that can result. The phrase "how you behave" implies civility without mentioning it. It suggests that there are acceptable and unacceptable ways of behaving without getting caught up in what they are.

Finally, we touch on the concept of participation essentially being a privilege without outwardly threatening revocation, which may not be as black and white as the statement you make but I think it would be pretty hard to argue it isn't clear what's meant.

AckwelFoley

mike65 wrote: »

Quite, the charter idea is all rather pompous fannying about to my frail mind.

Boards is for passing time, imparting or absorbing the odd nugget of knowledge and just every now and again a way of alerting those who run our lives to a 'bustle in the hedgerow' that they might want to look at.

Fully agree with this, i was thinking it, you said it, mind you at nearly 50,000 posts you sure have passed some time Mike!

Look, internet to me is exactly as mike said, however, i cant expect all members to feel the same and many members take the business of boards.ie very serious, somewhat akin they would the football team they support and want to feel they are heard when decisions are made. So in essance Dev is trying to please everyone.

The only thing you are letting yourself in for is when there is an arguement about a banning the rasion d'etre is going to be referred to and argued

metrovelvet

Yeah but youd have to get rid of After Hours.

TBH it makes it sounds like a golf club.

Why does it have to be meaningfull? Is anything in life meaningfull?

Define "reasonable"

And the worst has to be civilly and "privilege". There's a recession on. No one wants to hear that word.

dr.bollocko

Punch it up to a higher level than this. You're alienating a lot of disparate communities. My favourite communities. AH, Tdome and R&R.

Overheal

Honestly I think you need to look back, and try and find some of the older posts of this nature. Things like Amp's take on it. Theres at least a dozen such proclaimatory postings floating around in the archives like this - some more readible than others. But in it you find what people view the site as to them. Thats really going to be your best springboard for "What is Boards?" "Why is it here?" "Where is it going?"

iWillBeReborn

Consider this thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055724541

Consider how little of the users/members of the site care beyond getting the information/help they like versus the site being a good spot on de internets to get help


There are like 30 of you posting abut this stuff.

Take a step back.

While you are doing that look at these communities....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=463
No issues.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=19
No issues.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=607
No issues.

There are many, many boards and members that have no issues.

Noise ratio?

Nevyn

This is not about how things are but how to make sure that the core of what boards.ie is remains intact as it grows and moves forward.

iWillBeReborn

Thaedydal wrote: »

This is not about how things are but how to make sure that the core of what boards.ie is remains intact as it grows and moves forward.

No.

It is about moving forward.

What" core" do you mean?

Have your read the thread and got over being one of the oldskool members?

Embrace change.

Overheal

iWillBeReborn wrote: »

Thaedydal wrote: »

This is not about how things are but how to make sure that the core of what boards.ie is remains intact as it grows and moves forward.

No.

It is about moving forward.

What" core" do you mean?

Have your read the thread and got over being one of the oldskool members?

Embrace change.

Oh God.


Boards just got its first Republican and Democrat.

dr.bollocko

Overheal wrote: »

Oh God.


Boards just got its first Republican and Democrat.

I'm voting for Nader.

Nevyn

iWillBeReborn wrote: »

It is about moving forward.

As more and more people get online boards is going to keep growing, this is invetible it's happening and it can't be stopped.

Well the admins could stop it they could just not let any more account be created but they don't want to do that, so it's gonna happen.

So these sort of discussions have to happen to that the communities we have aren't damaged and keep growing and ticking along with out intervention.

iWillBeReborn wrote: »

What" core" do you mean?

The ideology and philosophy of boards.ie, this is about enshrinement so that those and the values which stem form them are not lost along the way and people then leave the site and communities then falter and fail.

iWillBeReborn wrote: »

Have your read the thread and got over being one of the oldskool members?

I have been reading the thread, I have been reading all the thread for the last 11 months around here watching boards grow and shift and evolve.

And I am not an oldskool member, those would be those who have a Feb 98 sign up date.

iWillBeReborn wrote: »

Embrace change.

This is part of that, a lot of things will change, the site had to grown and evolve and it has to be let do that and a lot of it will happen driven by members making it their own talking about the things they want to talk about and using the site to make wonderful things happen in their life.

But if the site get swamped and it's essense/culture gets so diluted and it's idealogies lost, then what makes this place different and what draws people in will be lost and the site will end up going into decline.

To prevent this from happens and to be able to foster and support the organic growth of the site there has to be things written down.

At this whole place was an idea DeV had which someone told him couldn't be done and here we all are a decade later, I would like to think that this place or a reincarnation of this place will be still around in 20s years time but to make sure that happens the ideologies and philosophies of the site have to be played forward and that mean having them defined and written down.

And as this was all DeV's brain child the poor bastard has to try and attempt that I would not like to do it as it is in some ways ethereal and means many things to many people who have often no more in common with each other then their passion for this place and what it has brought into their lives.

While we can to a point document how things work around here, why it works is imho a bit of mystery.

Thoie

DeVore wrote: »

Boards.ie exists to provide a platform for the mature and reasonable discussion of topics of interest to its members.

Bring it back to basics. Who is being provided with this platform - Irish people, Irish residents, ex-pats, random others? What do you mean by platform? What is this platform - is it just an internet site, or is there more to it than that?

DeVore wrote: »

To entertain, educate and inform both its members and its readers and to provide a neutral place to interact.

How is Boards itself entertaining, educating and informing? What are the benefits of being a member rather than a reader? What gap is being filled by being a neutral place?

DeVore wrote: »

1. That true, meaningful discourse is civil.

Can we say that any other way? Are we saying that incivility is not acceptable, or are we saying that if you're not civil you have no meaningful arguments?

DeVore wrote: »

2. That its members have a right to hold and civilly express reasonable opinions.

How do you define a reasonable opinion? In the situation where, say, Boards is under legal threat from an outside entity, do the members still have the right to express reasonable opinions?

DeVore wrote: »

3. The membership is a privilege which can be revoked.

You could probably just leave it at "Membership is a privilege."

I think that it should be made clear to everyone that Boards is a privately owned company, and members do not necessarily have a right to free speech or blah blah. At the end of the day, Boards is a company that allows me to use its facilities, in many cases for free. My local gym might offer me a free pass for a day, but it doesn't mean I can then do my laundry in the swimming pool. Spell out what the privilege means somewhere.

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

The ideology and philosophy of boards.ie, this is about enshrinement so that those and the values which stem form them are not lost along the way and people then leave the site and communities then falter and fail.


.

When I start seeing language like ideology and enshrinement, I start to get a bit nauseous.

You people cant be serious?

It was bad enought ripping off the American Express slogan "membership is a privlige" but adopting theological frameworks is just bizarre on top of it.

And what are the privieges? The sex forum. Big wow.

DeVore

Metro, please dont turn this thread into a rant against the Establishment or whatever.



DeV.

metrovelvet

DeVore wrote: »

Metro, please dont turn this thread into a rant against the Establishment or whatever.



DeV.

Not at all. Im critisizing the language that you and others are using. If you take that as ranting aganist the establishment, then Im getting some idea of what you mean as reasonable

I wouldnt consider boards to be part of any establishment so no need to rant against it, but it does come across a bit like you are trying to become a type of establishement, a type of insitution when you talk about mission statements, privilege,enshrinement, core values etc. It just seems weird for a website to want to start growing ivy up its virtual walls.

Nevyn

I have no idea who or what american express is or what thier philosophies are.

Posting to the site is a privilege, being able to use any of the site functions is privilege.

When people abuse the site and break the terms and conditions agreed to they find those privileges taken away, be it the posting privilege in a forum (ie a forum ban) or the posting privilege to all the forums and removal of access to thier pm box and the rest of the functions on the site (site ban).

metrovelvet

Thaedydal wrote: »

I have no idea who or what american express is or what thier philosophies are.

Posting to the site is a privilege, being able to use any of the site functions is privilege.

When people abuse the site and break the terms and conditions agreed to they find those privileges taken away, be it the posting privilege in a forum (ie a forum ban) or the posting privilege to all the forums and removal of access to thier pm box and the rest of the functions on the site (site ban).

But without people contributing you wouldn't have a site. You need people to post, you need it for the survival of the website and for whatever advertising revenue you are getting.

When you use the word privilege, and words like enshrinement and ideology, it raises red flags.

I wouldn't call what you are describing above as privilege, but more that if abused then some of the features of your participation are removed, either temporarily or permanently.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by enshrinement and ideology?

American Express is a credit card which uses the slogan "membership has its privileges." I would suggest you guys check out copywrite infringements.

DeVore

Ok, I get your point now... I guess I wanted to use that kind of language because I want it to invoke a certain style and something a little more high minded. this isnt going to be "yo, dont be a dick and it'll all be cool".
It deserves language that promotes its own message. That we take ourselves and our site more seriously then that. I know people mock that idea, but people have mocked my ideas most of my life...

We are by far the biggest single public site in Ireland, its not even close. We already ARE the establishment in a sense. What I want to do is enshrine what is culturally unique about us so we dont forget that in the coming years. So that this island in the sun will exist and still have its basic tenets at its heart even if I'm dead.

DeV.

nesf

Thoie wrote: »

Bring it back to basics. Who is being provided with this platform - Irish people, Irish residents, ex-pats, random others? What do you mean by platform? What is this platform - is it just an internet site, or is there more to it than that?


How is Boards itself entertaining, educating and informing? What are the benefits of being a member rather than a reader? What gap is being filled by being a neutral place?

Can we say that any other way? Are we saying that incivility is not acceptable, or are we saying that if you're not civil you have no meaningful arguments?


How do you define a reasonable opinion? In the situation where, say, Boards is under legal threat from an outside entity, do the members still have the right to express reasonable opinions?

You could probably just leave it at "Membership is a privilege."

I think that it should be made clear to everyone that Boards is a privately owned company, and members do not necessarily have a right to free speech or blah blah. At the end of the day, Boards is a company that allows me to use its facilities, in many cases for free. My local gym might offer me a free pass for a day, but it doesn't mean I can then do my laundry in the swimming pool. Spell out what the privilege means somewhere.

I so agree with the above.

It's a privilege, we're guests here mods included. These are the rules of the house party, so long as you keep them you can stay. Invoking rights invites a whole load of crap from people thinking that they actually have a right to say whatever they think is reasonable when it blatantly isn't but good luck explaining that to them.

Oh and drop the meaningful, it makes it seem like we look down on AH etc.