How's this for accuracy?

.50 (MOA)

So i've been trying to get some idea of the accuracy of my rifle- a krico .22lr that shoots bolt action and semi-auto, with a 3-9 x 40 AGS scope. I have been shooting some targets to get some idea but the damn things patterning like a shotgun rather than a rifle. Looking on here it seems to me that most of you guys can hit less than a 2 inch circle at 100m, even 1 inch. now I'd like to live up to my username and do 1/2 an inch at 100m but baby step s are required, and at the minute i'm doing over 3 at best.
I am unsure what the problem is, because not only are the groups wide but for identical ammo, on the same day, at the same distance the elevation tends to move up the targets
here's 5 targets i shot on two separate days
10 shots at each target
i was shooting, bolt action, resting the fore-end on a concrete pillar
wind was at most 2 on the beaufort wind scale,
distance was identical- 68 metres using mil-dot estimation and it wasn't moved at all, in fact its still in the same spot ,
ammunition was remington yellow jacket but for one target - no.2 - which was CCI
stingers.
the numbers on the targets are not the order they were shot just me counting off each shot to make sure they were all there (two of the stingers impacted above the target so they are missing. no.1 and 2 were shot on the same day, 3,4 & 5 on a separate day.

targets 1,2 and 4 is 1" dot, then 2" circle, 3" circle. the ligth grey lines are a half inch squares

targets 3 and 5 are 1" circle inside 1" square, 2" circle 2" square, 3" circle 3" square, agine the light grey lines are 1/2" squares



i would expect the stingers to impact higher because of the increased velocity but the ballistics data here says that the difference should be .1 of an inch between the two in impact point at 100m







i corrected the scope by 5 clicks right (1/4" at 100 yds per click) after this target



i moved back 1 click left after this target




notice the pencil mark on the last three, this is th epoint i was taking as the centre of my group, it moves up about half an inch on each subsequent target

any ideas what the problem might be, i haven't discounted the fact that it could be me, not the gun so any advice will be appreciated.


the way i see it, the problem could be

me
the gun
the scope
the ammunition
any combination of the above

rrpc

Ammunition would be pretty poor for target shooting. You'll also get a fair hop of the rifle using stingers or HV's off a concrete rest.

And don't get me started on semi's

And walk before you run. Start at a shorter distance and get dialled in there before you start to move out.

BornToKill

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

How's this for accurracy?

Not great!

.50 (MOA)

rrpc wrote: »

Ammunition would be pretty poor for target shooting. You'll also get a fair hop of the rifle using stingers or HV's off a concrete rest.

And don't get me started on semi's

And walk before you run. Start at a shorter distance and get dialled in there before you start to move out.

its the ammunition i'd be using for hunting, not into targets, but i need to know where the shots going to hit, to have a chance of hitting anything- i cant ask the rabbits i miss where the shot went past them to know how to correct.


what should I use as a rest to get better accuracy?, i forgot to mention on 3,4 and 5 i had a sand bag under the fore end

its not a semi, its a combo action that does both semi and bolt action, for these targets i was using bolt action, loading each round by working the action.


fair enough on the shorter range and moving out, but would it be fair to say that at this range -68m- i should have better accuracy than this, or am i being presumptive in thinking i should be shooting better than i am actually capable of.

i put 525 federal rounds through the gun last winter and got the same results, as a result I tended to stick to the shotgun for most of the summer. This year i'm trying to get somewhere rather than an empty ammo box, empty pocket and lots of holey paper.

Sparks

Not to put you down .50, but you might be expecting a bit too much from that rifle and that ammo. With a match 54 action and a decent barrel and decent ammo, yeah, I've held a 1' circle at 100yds for 20 shots at a time. But with a krico shooting cci stingers? Not a hope. They're built for MOB (Minute of Bunny), not MOA

.50 (MOA)

Sparks wrote: »

Not to put you down .50, but you might be expecting a bit too much from that rifle and that ammo. With a match 54 action and a decent barrel and decent ammo, yeah, I've held a 1' circle at 100yds for 20 shots at a time. But with a krico shooting cci stingers? Not a hope. They're built for MOB (Minute of Bunny), not MOA

Not to worry there yoda uhh..... i mean sparks, i suppose i'm lookin to find out what i should be doing, i'm not planning on getting down to an inch, even two inches would be nice but if i had 3 inches consistently with a good few in the 2" circle i'd be more confident when trying to take on the local rabbits.


Can you put a rough figure on the dimensions of a MOB?
Is 3" too much to ever expect, with this gun and any hunting ammo?


if i was to get some Good (target?) ammunition, and using a more suitable rest and shot at shorter range would this be of any use? would it tell me if its the gun or the ammo?


I want to try to become more accurate, I need somewhere to start.

foxshooter243

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

So i've been trying to get some idea of the accuracy of my rifle- a krico .22lr that shoots bolt action and semi-auto, with a 3-9 x 40 AGS scope. I have been shooting some targets to get some idea but the damn things patterning like a shotgun rather than a rifle. Looking on here it seems to me that most of you guys can hit less than a 2 inch circle at 100m, even 1 inch. now I'd like to live up to my username and do 1/2 an inch at 100m but baby step s are required, and at the minute i'm doing over 3 at best.
I am unsure what the problem is, because not only are the groups wide but for identical ammo, on the same day, at the same distance the elevation tends to move up the targets
here's 5 targets i shot on two separate days
10 shots at each target
i was shooting, bolt action, resting the fore-end on a concrete pillar
wind was at most 2 on the beaufort wind scale,
distance was identical- 68 metres using mil-dot estimation and it wasn't moved at all, in fact its still in the same spot ,
ammunition was remington yellow jacket but for one target - no.2 - which was CCI
stingers.
the numbers on the targets are not the order they were shot just me counting off each shot to make sure they were all there (two of the stingers impacted above the target so they are missing. no.1 and 2 were shot on the same day, 3,4 & 5 on a separate day.

targets 1,2 and 4 is 1" dot, then 2" circle, 3" circle. the ligth grey lines are a half inch squares

targets 3 and 5 are 1" circle inside 1" square, 2" circle 2" square, 3" circle 3" square, agine the light grey lines are 1/2" squares



i would expect the stingers to impact higher because of the increased velocity but the ballistics data here says that the difference should be .1 of an inch between the two in impact point at 100m







i corrected the scope by 5 clicks right (1/4" at 100 yds per click) after this target



i moved back 1 click left after this target




notice the pencil mark on the last three, this is th epoint i was taking as the centre of my group, it moves up about half an inch on each subsequent target

any ideas what the problem might be, i haven't discounted the fact that it could be me, not the gun so any advice will be appreciated.


the way i see it, the problem could be

me
the gun
the scope
the ammunition
any combination of the above

short answer and maybe a bit curt but im being honest!--get rid of the rifle-buy a good bolt action maybe an anschutz in 22lr-use decent ammo and watch your groups get smaller..and a decent scope will help;)

I have used the same rifle you have and they arent particulary accurate!

G17

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

me
the gun
the scope
the ammunition
any combination of the above

To save your sanity do what I do for a new set up.
Bring your rifle, a box of TARGET ammo (Tenex, Centre-x or the like), a decent rest like a sandbag, a table and chair oh and a shooter friend.

Shoot groups at 20 40 60 yards and so on, the important thing is consistency, consistent groups will do a lot for your confidence and ONLY match grade ammo will give you that and until you can get these elusive groups you won't be happy. THEN bring in your hard hitting stuff, Stingers, Yellow Jackets etc. The friend? Get him or her to fire groups too, with your rifle, if they are getting groups and you're not, it's you.

Good luck.

rowa

the problem with semi's is they have big sloppy chambers so they'll feed reliably , not great for accuracy at all .

newby.204

judging from where you say the rounds are landing, trigger pull seems to be a problem your snatching the trigger as appose pulling it till it breaks, also get rid of the scope, you dont have to go too high end but i wouldnt put an ags on an air rifle!!!

when shooting consistency is accuracy, first off is the eye relief on your scope correct, place the butt into your shoulder and swing it up to a firing position and find out where your cheek weld is, this is where your cheek naturally meets with the stock you should have a clear sight picture, if not adjust the scope forwards or backwards in the mounts till this is so

also check that the scope is plum, ie the vertical line on the reticle is completely vertical and the horizontal line is horizontal otherwise the rifle is canted and this will affect your accuracy

trigger pull, your index finger is broken up into thirds, place the last third, thats the bit underside of your nail on the trigger and squeeze, slowly, until the trigger breaks, never expect the rifle to fire just keep squeezing until it does, and then don't release straight away and slowly let the trigger back out again don't just take it off the trigger so it resets!!


just my 2c if that doesn't work then change the rifle

or i'm not being clear let me know ill try and explain myself better

CJhaughey

Why don't you get a few boxes of standard HV HP ammo, maybe Minimags or similar, those hypervelocity rounds never group well IME.

rrpc

It's a combination of things. The rifle is not good, the scope is pretty bad, the ammo wouldn't be that consistent and the rest would be poor enough.

For the sake of establishing a base line it's best to get a box of Eley Club/Team or Lapua Super Club/Centre X and shoot it at 25 yards first. Stick with the same ammo and shoot prone off a sandbag or similar. It's probably not worth going for the more expensive ammo as (like Rowa says) the breech on the Krico will take some of the accuracy out of the rounds anyway.

Make sure the scope is set up correctly (as newby.204 explained) and shoot groups of five or ten. Once you've got a group established then change to the HV ammo at the same distance and see what that does: DON'T ADJUST YOUR SIGHTS, just shoot a group of five to see the difference in POI and size of group. If it's bad there and your subsonic group is good well you know the problem.

Move out to 50m and do the same thing.

You'll learn a lot about your rifle and ammo just doing that.

clivej

I'm by no means good at the target shooting and these targets were shot not long after I got to a range with my CZ Style 22lr. All @50m.
Brookes trigger kit is fitted. Eley subs. 12mm center black bull.

5 shot groups


10 shot group


HV rounds still usung the bull as my aimpoint



CZ Style then



CZ Style NOW. Piller bedded, deeply free floated by 4mm all round and only 1 action screw.

johngalway

foxshooter243 wrote: »

short answer and maybe a bit curt but im being honest!--get rid of the rifle-buy a good bolt action maybe an anschutz in 22lr-use decent ammo and watch your groups get smaller..and a decent scope will help;)

I have used the same rifle you have and they arent particulary accurate!

I'd ditch the rifle as well.

Sako and CZ also make decent shooting .22lrs.

dCorbus

if i was to get some Good (target?) ammunition, and using a more suitable rest and shot at shorter range would this be of any use? would it tell me if its the gun or the ammo?

All of the above a good idea IMHO.
Can't comment on the krico s/a, but can concur with the thumbs-up for the CZ's. Great 22!
Although, when I'm shooting badly and nothing is grouping well, it's usually something I'm doing wrong (I blame the kit, the wind, the coffee, the cold, etc. anyway!:D). The variables introduced by the human body are the ones which need the most practice, as I'm finding out slowly but surely myself.

If you do decide to stick with the krico for now, then get some better ammo (22 rounds are reasonably cheap / cost-effective anyway, so maybe splash out on the lapua centre-x! You're only talking an extra cent or two a round AFAIK:)) You don't need to use this on the wabbits but at least you won't be able to blame the ammo:D- thusly, removing one variable that can go wrong.

For accuracy, a stable position is a must - so get a sling, a benchrest, bipod, or other method to give the rifle a nice stable position. A benchrest is probably the handiest on the range for accuracy and a bipod might be useful if you're in the field.

Get a better scope.:D

But IMHO Most importantly: Annoy the hell out of your fellow shooters and get as much advice and pointers as possible!:D Pick their brains and learn from their experience as much as you can - Generally make a nuisance of yourself! (That's what I've been doing!:D)

Dvs

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

Can you put a rough figure on the dimensions of a MOB?
Is 3" too much to ever expect, with this gun and any hunting ammo?


if i was to get some Good (target?) ammunition, and using a more suitable rest and shot at shorter range would this be of any use? would it tell me if its the gun or the ammo?


I want to try to become more accurate, I need somewhere to start.

Hello .50,
The way this thread is going, get rid of the rifle, the scopes no good, yada yada, someone will soon tell you that you might as well give up shooting altogether......

But fear not, all is not lost,
CCI stingers never worked for me, inconsistent point of impact,
remington yellow jackets have always worked well for me, so if you have some of them left hold off on getting any match ammo.

One of the primary issues that you are having is caused by using a concrete post to rest the fore-end on having to use a post while hunting may happen, but put your hand, a hat or something else between the fore-end and the post, even at that, the stock can still move a lot at the rear especially if you do not have a stable stance, it will impart movement to the muzzle. hold a pencil between your left index finger and thumb two inches from the point then grasp the end in your right index finger and thumb and move it in a small circle you can see how much it affects the point or in the case of your rifle muzzle end, hold the pencil point lightly on a piece of paper occasionally push hard to represent shots and it will draw a group very similar to your groups.

Here is some advice I posted in a previous similar thread that may help you,
the moderator is not applicable but everything else should help solve your problems.


Safety warning !


Do not allow anyone forward of the rifle,
without first unloading and proving clear !

Putting on the safety catch is not the same thing


To zero any rifle you should clean it first,
and then fire a fouling shot and work from there,
the logic being that you want the barrel clean,
but not without a fouling shot unless you intend to clean after each shot.

You dont say if its iron sights or telescopic sight,
check everthing is tight on the rifle no movement between action and stock, no loose sight mounts etc.

Take off the moderator and clean it too,
in the first instance zero without the mod on the rifle.

Get a clear calm day (good luck with this at the moment)
pick the ammo you want to use in your rifle,
stick with the same ammo exactly,
similar is not the same,
if you change you will have to re-check your zero.

Start with a safe backstop and large piece of cardboard for a target,
with a 1 inch or 25 mm coloured sticker as your point of aim,
start at twenty five yards or metres,
whichever you prefer measure it with a range finder or a tape,
dont step it out and say thats near enough,
if you want accuracy take the time to do it right.

Have eveything you need to adjust the sights within reach,
You need to zero the rifle in the shooting position that you will shoot it in, prone, sitting, off hand, try to support the rifle with sand bags or rest bags, old socks filled with dry kids play from a toy shop sand will work, so it wont move between shooting a sighter and making sight adjustments, or you will chase your shots around the target, if you can, have someone else check you hits with binos,
so you don't have to move too much between shots and adjustments.

if you get the windage and elevation right at twenty five,
you should just have to adjust elevation to set your hunting zero at whatever you want within reason, after you are shooting point of aim at twenty five try the mod and see if it shifts point of impact.



Regards,
Dvs

Hezz700

Hi MOA,

Its all pretty much been covered here by folks who know alot more than me , but i would just like to add one thing....after your followed the prdominant advice regarding your equipment.

You really don't need to use HV ammo to take bunnies reliably and at decent ranges. if your planning to use a moderator(permit approved) subsonic's are the only option. Zero an inch and a half high at 75yards and you really can't go wrong.

Hezz

dCorbus

Hey MOA,

Best thing for you to do is take all of the above advice.
It's all sound - and apart from the rifle selection, everyone seems to agree on the general principles! (A rare and strange occurance around here, I think I need to lie down!):D

If you're looking for Sub 0.5inch MOA accuracy, as your O/P seems to imply, all of the above advice from everyone is relevant and useful. That sort of accuracy, particular outdoors and at longer ranges, is not easy to achieve. It's kinda a personal goal of mine too! And I'm not expecting it to happen soon either!:)

IMHO if you really seek the holy grail of Sub 0.5inch MOA accuracy, you will need the following:

Good Rifle
Good Ammunition
Good Scope
Good Shooting Posture / Position
Good Rifle Position
Good Weather

and lots of:

Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice, Practice:D

Pick whichever you can best start out with and work on each of these elements.

And best of luck!:D

.50 (MOA)

lots of good stuff there for me to try. don't really want to go to the hassle of changing, if changing will do no good, so i'll persist with the gun i have and only change if i need to.

still have 39 yellow jackets left here so i think i'll work on each of the things i can do to increase the accuracy and se what happens.

things i can do to increase accuracy that won't cost anything (either time or money)

• trigger pull- squeeze gently and be surpised (kinda)
• rest- use a sand bag under the forend whilst prone or use a table and chair
• scope setup- make sure the crosshairs are perfectly horizontal/vertical- how do i do this?
• most (if not all of the stuff in Dvs' post)
• range- shoot at shorter distances. 25 metres would seem to be the figure, as well as doing groups at 20, 40 and 60. go to 25m for these last 39 yellow jackets? or stay with 68m and doing the other 3 things above so the results will be comparable?

other things i can do

• use some subsonic/ target ammo to get a baseline then try the yellowjackets/stingers- will do this when i get time to go and get the ammo.

what i'm likely gonna have to do

• new scope
• new gun

dCorbus

Hard to get the head around all this info, I know, .50(MOA)!:D

Do you have anyone experienced who can work with you on this? It's often very difficult to spot the sometime very minor mistakes one is making and the equally minor adjustments you may need to make.

If at all possible, find someone experienced and skilled who you can practice shoot with. Are you a member of a rifle club or range? If so, you should be able to get lots of useful (and some not so useful!:rolleyes:) advice there.

Trigger pull - Squeeze nice and gently in one motion, use the top or pad of your trigger finger. Make sure to follow through correctly - I find it useful to count to 3 after breaking the shot. It's a bit like golf in this way! Pull the trigger, keep your position, and count to 3 before you lift your head.

use a sand bag under the forend whilst prone or use a table and chair

A good steady front resting position is essential. A good heavy sand bag with good resistance should help. Get a bipod if you can or a proper front rest - Although if you're going to shooting "in the field" a bipod will prove to be a good longterm investment.

make sure the crosshairs are perfectly horizontal/vertical- how do i do this?

Make sure your rifle is in a steady position, vertical, and cannot move, slightly loosen the scope rings, and rotate the scope slightly until the reticle is aligned correctly, then slowly tighten the scope rings. (If theres a better of method doing this, the lads here will tell you!:D) Get an experienced shooter to do this for you if you are unsure yourself. Make sure the rifle and scope are boresighted and zero'd.

go to 25m for these last 39 yellow jackets? or stay with 68m and doing the other 3 things above so the results will be comparable?

I would suggest 25m and 50m as your distances. Not sure where the 68m distance is arising.?

Take all the time in the world for each shot (Another little mistake of mine!:o) - It's not a race!:D

And again, best of luck with your practice!:)

(Oh yeah, BTW I'm a novice myself so this is just me reiterating advice I've been given recently - any and all mistakes are my own - and there are a lot more far more experienced and skilled shooters on here than me - so take their advice!:D)

rrpc

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

lots of good stuff there for me to try. don't really want to go to the hassle of changing, if changing will do no good, so i'll persist with the gun i have and only change if i need to.

still have 39 yellow jackets left here so i think i'll work on each of the things i can do to increase the accuracy and se what happens.

Try and get some subs as soon as you can. The effect recoil is having on your group will show up when you switch to subs and once you can quantify it, you can then start to deal with it.

things i can do to increase accuracy that won't cost anything (either time or money)

• trigger pull- squeeze gently and be surpised (kinda)
• rest- use a sand bag under the forend whilst prone or use a table and chair
• scope setup- make sure the crosshairs are perfectly horizontal/vertical- how do i do this?
• most (if not all of the stuff in Dvs' post)
• range- shoot at shorter distances. 25 metres would seem to be the figure, as well as doing groups at 20, 40 and 60. go to 25m for these last 39 yellow jackets? or stay with 68m and doing the other 3 things above so the results will be comparable?

You can also use a two point sling for a rest instead of a sandbag. It's a very useful tool when you're out hunting (a lot of the cissy types here use bipods :P) as it works equally well in any position: standing, prone, sitting or kneeling

other things i can do

• use some subsonic/ target ammo to get a baseline then try the yellowjackets/stingers- will do this when i get time to go and get the ammo.

what i'm likely gonna have to do

• new scope
• new gun

Bear in mind that you may be better off with the subs in the long run. Shooting bunnies is more about getting the placement right and subs are a bit more forgiving at a distance. Target lads are hitting a 1" ten ring at 100 yards with subs, so they'll go the distance alright.

.50 (MOA)

dCorbus wrote: »

Do you have anyone experienced who can work with you on this? It's often very difficult to spot the sometime very minor mistakes one is making and the equally minor adjustments you may need to make.

If at all possible, find someone experienced and skilled who you can practice shoot with. Are you a member of a rifle club or range? If so, you should be able to get lots of useful (and some not so useful!:rolleyes:) advice there.

not really much chance of any of this happening, not in a rifle club/range, and don't know any one who shoots much with a rifle, (mostly shotgun people i'm afraid) i'm just trying to be able to hit most of what i aim at

dCorbus wrote: »

Trigger pull - Squeeze nice and gently in one motion, use the top or pad of your trigger finger. Make sure to follow through correctly - I find it useful to count to 3 after breaking the shot. It's a bit like golf in this way! Pull the trigger, keep your position, and count to 3 before you lift your head.

will have to try this one thing at the very least

dCorbus wrote: »

A good steady front resting position is essential. A good heavy sand bag with good resistance should help. Get a bipod if you can or a proper front rest - Although if you're going to shooting "in the field" a bipod will prove to be a good longterm investment.

will work out something here

dCorbus wrote: »

I would suggest 25m and 50m as your distances. Not sure where the 68m distance is arising.?

will do on the 25 and 50, the 68m is the distance the target ended up away when i set it up and ranged it with the mil-dots, i just left it there so that each target would be at a consistent range

dCorbus wrote: »

Take all the time in the world for each shot (Another little mistake of mine!:o) - It's not a race!:D

might be guilty of this

.50 (MOA)

rrpc wrote: »

Try and get some subs as soon as you can. The effect recoil is having on your group will show up when you switch to subs and once you can quantify it, you can then start to deal with it.

You can also use a two point sling for a rest instead of a sandbag. It's a very useful tool when you're out hunting (a lot of the cissy types here use bipods :P) as it works equally well in any position: standing, prone, sitting or kneeling

Bear in mind that you may be better off with the subs in the long run. Shooting bunnies is more about getting the placement right and subs are a bit more forgiving at a distance. Target lads are hitting a 1" ten ring at 100 yards with subs, so they'll go the distance alright.

subs it is then, i can just hear the dealer when i ask for them

"i don't think they'll work in your gun, they probably won't cycle"

and myself having to explain the whole combo action situation to him again (this is what happened when i got some #12 shot cartridges for the gun earlier on on the year)

com1

Its been years since I shot but I remember when I got my first gun a BRNO II .22 with a hakko scope (I think it was a hakko anyway, it was 25 years ago...:-( ) the exact same thing happened to me when I tried to zero it. I got my gun dealer to check the scope and we found that it was damaged - the cross hairs moved at every shot. Another thing the dealer warned me about was to ensure that there were no burrs on the scope mounts, if there is not full contact the scope will move at the shock of every shot and you will lose the zero. Of course also make sure everything is tight...

ivanthehunter

Try some Eley Subs- If these don't give you better groups than Yellow jackets or stingers then I'll eat my hat.

Make sure that your resting you rifle on something relatively soft so as not to induce sliding! Make sure that your constant in you grip and always aim through the shot (follow on!) i.e. keep trying to hold you aim for a moment just after the shot and alway use the most sensitive part of your finger.
Remember that if you are pulling the rifle onto your shoulder, be consistent and be careful that you only pull directly along the axis of the stock i.e. don't introduce any hand-torque which becomes exaggerated when the rifle fires.
And remember that if you have any issues in seeing both the target clearly and the cross-hairs sharply at the same instance when the hammer hits the firing pin then alway insure that it is the cross hair that you focus on at this last instance!! If its very bad then get parallax sorted out!!

If possible try and arrange your targets so that you are either shooting in or out of thew wind!

Also remember the cci stingers and yellow jackets being Hypervelocity rounds are notorious erratic. They also lack downrange energy due to the light projectile weights. You might find that the CCI velocitirs at 40 grains give the best hypervelocity results IMO due to their higher mass and longer projectile bodies!!

Also check you crown for simple dents and such. Crown repair can easily be done at home. Dents in the crown could easily give a wide dispersion pattern.

Any rifle benefits for bedding! I used a simple hardening compound and oiled my action before securing the two together! Now the action will not move when secured to the stock!!

Try and see if a credit card sized piece of paper can slide up between the barrel and the forewood. If not you'll need to read up on free-floating which can increase you accuracy!

It might sound silly but check your scope to ensure its mounted tightly. Always avoid parallax by ensuring your eye is centered in the view and that the cross hairs seem nicely centered on the view as a whole. Experiment with your set up so that you might see the errors of parallax.

I suppose you know about shooting after you exhale and all that stuff but only shoot when you feel comfortable but do try and be consistent.

Conclusion

Stick to the sub-sonic ammo! it will kill rabbits as fas as you can shoot!
I have had kills at 150y with 22lrs and the bullet passed through the chest cavity and then hit the furthest rear knee before being forced up in to the inner thigh muscle.
TBH your at nothing with hyper vel ammo- its just too loud!!

I'd love to see a picture of that kirco's dual action! I tried looking on you-tube but nothing there. You be the first to post it there AFAIK

Regards Ivan

rrpc

This might be it: Krico model 260

riflehunter77

Alot of good info been given already, it might be worth your while striping down your scope and rings and mounts and re zero it again. It could be as simple as a bit of grit under your scope or a loose mount. Give it a good clean and start again. If you can get a your hands on a bipod it would be a big plus as well. Subs all the way...

ivanthehunter

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

subs it is then, i can just hear the dealer when i ask for them

"i don't think they'll work in your gun, they probably won't cycle"

and myself having to explain the whole combo action situation to him again (this is what happened when i got some #12 shot cartridges for the gun earlier on on the year)

Are you talking about rat shot!!
If so theres plenty of folk out there that reckon it one of the worst things you can send down a rifled barrel!

Check out some lead cleaning products but go easy on the brush!

Too much brushing is simply causing premature ware!

ivanthehunter

rrpc wrote: »

This might be it: Krico model 260

Any close up photos of the dark side of that action;)

rrpc

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Any close up photos of the dark side of that action;)

Afraid not. We'll have to rely on the OP to provide them.

ivanthehunter

Well .50(moa) give us some photos please!

PS never mind the others here just PM to me:D:D:D

.50 (MOA)

Here's a few I took earlier, they show, what I think, is all that can be shown in a picture.







bolt handle out for semi auto mode



bolt handle pushed in for bolt action mode









bolt handle out- semi auto (bolt/ firing pin components only)




bolt handle pushed in- botl action mode (bolt/firing pin components only)

ivanthehunter

Wow! some great photos there!! Thanks very much for posting them all!
I have been looking on the net for some time for photos such as those but I'm probable just not looking in the right place!

It seem that when in bolt action mode the simple through bolt slots in to the far side of the action! Yes! But it doesn't look as if it put any positive pressure on the rifle bolt so as to cause a secure bolt face/breech face union!
It seem that the rifle bolt could still in theory be allow to move by some small amount depending on the amount of ware in the slot/hole in the receiver!

Regards Ivan

rrpc

.50 (MOA) I see you have a sling on the rifle. You should use that as your rest as it will give you all the support and steadiness you need in any position.

.50 (MOA)

got out this evening to do some hole punching

heres the latest results

these were shot prone with winchester super X SUBSONIC at 25m and 50m (measured with a tape) with the rifle resting on my fist and the but resting on the ground. care was taken over each shot without rushing it and squeezing the trigger gently (so gently i could feel it moving a small amount sometimes without going off (creep i think this is called????))

MOA meaurement is made by drawing a line between the centres of the two farthest apart holes and drawing a circle to ensure it encompasses all of the shots. measuring the diameter of this circle and multiplying by 4 (for 25m) or 2 (for 50m) and dividing by 25.4 (mm/inch)

just under 3MOA for the first target was the best i got
then shot two 50m targets and was nearly twice as wide but brought it back to 3.46 MOA for the final 50m target.

foxshooter243

.50 (MOA) wrote: »

got out this evening to do some hole punching

heres the latest results

these were shot prone with winchester super X SUBSONIC at 25m and 50m (measured with a tape) with the rifle resting on my fist and the but resting on the ground. care was taken over each shot without rushing it and squeezing the trigger gently (so gently i could feel it moving a small amount sometimes without going off (creep i think this is called????))

MOA meaurement is made by drawing a line between the centres of the two farthest apart holes and drawing a circle to ensure it encompasses all of the shots. measuring the diameter of this circle and multiplying by 4 (for 25m) or 2 (for 50m) and dividing by 25.4 (mm/inch)

just under 3MOA for the first target was the best i got
then shot two 50m targets and was nearly twice as wide but brought it back to 3.46 MOA for the final 50m target.

Thats about right for that rifle I reckon , used one before and it gave pretty much the same results:)

ivanthehunter

are you taking your time between shots? I know 22lr subs are not running too hot but this might give some consistency.

Did you test you scope for faults?
Did you even try and bed your guns action?

Try this out of badness, Get some cigarette box paper or similar and fold up one or two small bits so as they fit under the action of your gun and they touch the timber in the stock. Try and place them (paper bits) that they might remove any chance of even movement of the action in the stock.

I suppose a bit of trial and error might be needed;)

Also try a good cleaning solution, especially when you consider the fact that you used #12shot :eek:

i don't know if you have access to a vise but it might be help full if you clamped you gun in one and tried adjusting you scope to see if it zero is moving. Be sure you go easy with the vice and do not bend or crimp the barrel. tbh it might be best to clamp it closer to the action.

The above testing and modifying should only take an hour or so!

regards Ivan

rrpc

Try using the sling instead of resting it on the ground. What you do is (if right handed) put your left elbow through the sling from the left side, catch the sling on the left side of your elbow, pull it to the left until it is almost tight then slip your left hand around the sling near the fore end in a corkscrew motion and place your hand under the fore end. The sling should now go from the butt of the rifle, around the outside of your left elbow, back over your wrist, under the back of your hand and then to the sling swivel at the fore end.

It sounds complicated, but if you have the length of the sling adjusted right and get the hang of it, it's very quick; done all in one motion, and provides a very stable platform and support for your rifle in any position.

LB6

a pic of what RRPC just described! Single version!

rrpc

LB6 wrote: »

a pic of what RRPC just described!

That's actually a single point sling LB6, here's a pic of a two point sling:

.50 (MOA)

o.k. been working on the targets and the best yet is 2.13 MOA at 50m with dynamit nobel subsonics.

just a couple of questions on sighting

as the cross hairs sit on the target they obviously move about a small amount due to small muscle twitches, heartbeat, breating etc. does the magnitude of this movement bear any relation to how much you miss by? for instance i an aiming at a 1" dot, but the crosshairs would be moving about over an area of about 1/4" or less, does this movement add 1/8" in each direction or can it add much more?

if the rifle was able to put all the rounds through 1 hole if it were clamped in a vice (improbable but as a generalisation), would this 1/4" diameter of movement make the group 1/4" bigger when i use it

i think this explains what i'm trying to find out




if the view in the sight is not being viewed as centrally as possible, in what direction will this cause a miss.


i.e. if my eye is to the left side of the scope, whilst still having a sight picture. as opposed to finding the most central image i can find. will i miss right or left? the same would hold for up/down as well. this is to do with parralax isn't it

thanks lads

.50

fiestaman

lad i got HV ammo for my CZ cci and yellow jackets and at 75yrds they wont group inside 2.5'' maybe 3'' and the odd flyer. im gone back to subs now. if i were you id go to subs and stick with them but like clivej posted you should be able to put subs inside 1.5'' atleast at 50m and if your used to a gun and confident 1.5'' out to 80yrds should be no problem. if subs are not an option for you then buy a .17hmr and shoot 1'' group out to 120yrds and further.

Have a read of this about high velicoty.
http://www.riflesintheuk.com/rimfire.htm

this is just my opinion

Cass

Sticking this in here to continue on the same theme rather than start an unneeded new thread.

Was out on the weekend and was testing difference batches of ammo with the tuner on. Finally got the rifle shooting tight groups.

These were shot at 50mtr in an 8-10 kph left to right (8 O'Clock) breeze. Its a 5 shot group. Measuring 7mm.

shanmoll308

:eek: Well now I know you can shoot bud..now all you have to do is read the wind!!

Shanmoll308

Cass

But thats why i shoot beside you all the time.......:D

Now if i could only get you into the 50mtr range for an hour..................;)

ivanthehunter

Ok seeing as i suspected the bedding was the main issue for this 22 rifle i decided to place my own 22lr action in to a stock with as little bedding as possible!!
#Basically it resting on the flat at the front and resting on one point at the rear...
All the groups opened up wildly.. At 100yards i was even missing A4 paper with hyper velocity stuff:eek: and subs were forming 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards:eek:

Now before i changed to this stock i was getting 3" groups at 135yards with subs and its a semi auto!:)

So above all i would say that an ill fitting action in any stock is the number one accuracy killer IMO..
or perhaps a loose barrel;)

Glensman

ezridax wrote: »

Sticking this in here to continue on the same theme rather than start an unneeded new thread.

Was out on the weekend and was testing difference batches of ammo with the tuner on. Finally got the rifle shooting tight groups.

These were shot at 50mtr in an 8-10 kph left to right (8 O'Clock) breeze. Its a 5 shot group. Measuring 7mm.

Can you define tuner for me?? :rolleyes:

poulo6.5

clivej wrote: »

I'm by no means good at the target shooting and these targets were shot not long after I got to a range with my CZ Style 22lr. All @50m.
Brookes trigger kit is fitted. Eley subs. 12mm center black bull.

5 shot groups


10 shot group


HV rounds still usung the bull as my aimpoint



CZ Style then



CZ Style NOW. Piller bedded, deeply free floated by 4mm all round and only 1 action screw.

good results . have you ever tried winchester subs. i have a style and i get great results with them.

how do you find it now that you have some work done . and is it ok to have only one screw holding the action.

clivej

poulo6.5 wrote: »

good results . have you ever tried winchester subs. i have a style and i get great results with them.

how do you find it now that you have some work done . and is it ok to have only one screw holding the action.

Tried the Win subs but as with all the different ammo I always come back to the Eley and Lapua subs, can't beat them in this little rifle. Just the standard €4.50 a box stuff.

A lot of the yanks use just the one action screw. As they find using the front action screw will pull the barrel down.
Good CZ rimfire forum here
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18

My CZ Style is ,well to me anyway, about as good as it will get with the jobs done on it. Shoots 1/2" groups @50m and I'm able to hit the rabbits @120m.

Cass

Glensman wrote: »

Can you define tuner for me?? :rolleyes:

Sorry i call it that for short. Its a barrel harmonics tuner. By adjusting the weight on the tuner forward or back i can manipulate the harmonics of the barrel and tighten up a group if using untested ammo (ie. not batch tested). It can be useful but if i'm using my normal ammo i don't bother with it. They come in all shapes and sizes and have a measurement scale on it (like a scope) so i can record what setting suits what ammo.

Something like these...............

Glensman

ezridax wrote: »

Sorry i call it that for short. Its a barrel harmonics tuner. By adjusting the weight on the tuner forward or back i can manipulate the harmonics of the barrel and tighten up a group if using untested ammo (ie. not batch tested). It can be useful but if i'm using my normal ammo i don't bother with it. They come in all shapes and sizes and have a measurement scale on it (like a scope) so i can record what setting suits what ammo.

Something like these...............

So then when you go hunting do you leave it on??