Can you identify this raptor?

Fredrick

Anyone know what type of raptor this one is, notice the white on the back of the wings?

cuddlycavies

Male sparrowhawk or Goshawk possibly.

Poll Dubh

female Hen Harrier

http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/hen-harrier.asp (see illustration toward bottom of page)

cuddlycavies

Poll Dubh wrote: »

female Hen Harrier

http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/hen-harrier.asp (see illustration toward bottom of page)

Defo not. White rump would be obvious in photos and wrong shape.

tricky D

Buzzard

Fredrick

cuddlycavies wrote: »

Male sparrowhawk or Goshawk possibly.

Think you might be right cuddleycaveies, was googling Goshawk pics and it looks like a male Took these in monaghan during the summer. It was very high up.

Poll Dubh wrote: »

female Hen Harrier


http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/hen-harrier.asp (see illustration toward bottom of page)

The tail and wings do look similar besides the white bit though?

tricky D wrote: »

Buzzard

Dont think its a buzzard tricky, they don't have the bands on the tail and the wings have a distintive pattern underneath, bit like the golden eagle

Birdnuts

Has the look of a goshawk to me or a very large female sparrowhawK

Kess73

Going with a large female sparrowhawk, based on the marking being quite pronounced on the underwings, when it is less so on a male goshawk, and there does not seem to be white or cream undertail coverts on that bird.

Plus the wing length looks short for a Goshawk which has a much longer wing in proportion to it's body than a sparrowhawk does.


Would not be shocked if it did turn out to be a male goshawk though.

Fredrick

Kess73 wrote: »

Going with a large female sparrowhawk, based on the marking being quite pronounced on the underwings, when it is less so on a male goshawk, and there does not seem to be white or cream undertail coverts on that bird.

Plus the wing length looks short for a Goshawk which has a much longer wing in proportion to it's body than a sparrowhawk does.


Would not be shocked if it did turn out to be a male goshawk though.

Yeah, was just looking at pics of the female sparrowhawk also, and they are very alike in appearance, so i dont just dont know, thanks for the replies everyone

cuddlycavies

I thought that the stockier type body in a couple of the shots eliminated female sparrowawk, but maybe not. I guess the defining question would be. Was it a larger bird? Like substantially larger than a pigeon? If so, Goshawk.

210

Was it circling when you saw it ? Buzzards tend to circle quite high looking for dinner on the ground. Also did it make any sound - the buzzard has a pretty distinct meaww type call.

Fredrick

cuddlycavies wrote: »

I thought that the stockier type body in a couple of the shots eliminated female sparrowawk, but maybe not. I guess the defining question would be. Was it a larger bird? Like substantially larger than a pigeon? If so, Goshawk.

Yes it was a large bird around the size of a buzzard cuddly.

210 wrote: »

Was it circling when you saw it ? Buzzards tend to circle quite high looking for dinner on the ground. Also did it make any sound - the buzzard has a pretty distinct meaww type call.

Yes it was circling 210 it wasnt meawing though, have seen common buzzards before but not with the white on the back of the wings and the tail looks different?

Half-cocked

Buzzard plumage can vary quite a lot from bird to bird.

Fredrick

Half-cocked wrote: »

Buzzard plumage can vary quite a lot from bird to bird.

Fair enough Half-Cocked.

Half-cocked

OK, more confusion, I showed the OP's pics to an expert and here's what he emailed me:

The long tail rules out vultures, eagles and buzzards. No fork rules out kites.
Not a harrier (no white rump, and barred tail rules out Marsh Harrier), and the rounded wings and face pattern rule out falcons. Most likely to be a female/immature Sparrowhawk or Goshawk. The white tips to the greater wing coverts are puzzling, but may be a juvenile feature. The slightly fluffed white under tail coverts could suggest a Goshawk.

cuddlycavies

And large size suggests Goshawk

tomahawk101

Lads, the pics are of a male goshawk, it is over one year of age as it is in adult plumage and it is under five years of age as its eyes are still light yellow as opposed to the darker orange then red they get when they get old.

Were these pics taken in Ireland? If so what part?
On warm days around 1oam onwards, goshawks and spars will soar like buzzards but the difference is that these true hawks do about five quick wingbeats every so often as opposed to the buzzard that sets her wings slightly upwards and soars away only doing the odd flap now and again.

I have seen quite a few goshawks around over the past couple of years, as they are moving back into our shores again. Four hundred years ago Irish goshawks were renowned and shipped throughout Europe as superior Falconry birds.

Check out my website for all hawk related stuff; woodlandsfalconry.com
cheers, tom

Fredrick

tomahawk101 wrote: »

Lads, the pics are of a male goshawk, it is over one year of age as it is in adult plumage and it is under five years of age as its eyes are still light yellow as opposed to the darker orange then red they get when they get old.

Were these pics taken in Ireland? If so what part?
On warm days around 1oam onwards, goshawks and spars will soar like buzzards but the difference is that these true hawks do about five quick wingbeats every so often as opposed to the buzzard that sets her wings slightly upwards and soars away only doing the odd flap now and again.

I have seen quite a few goshawks around over the past couple of years, as they are moving back into our shores again. Four hundred years ago Irish goshawks were renowned and shipped throughout Europe as superior Falconry birds.

Check out my website for all hawk related stuff; woodlandsfalconry.com
cheers, tom

Thanks Tomahawk one of the earlier posters cuddly was pretty sure also. The pics were taken over >location snipped by mod<, nice looking bird. Will have a look at the site.

(On advice from Birdwatch Ireland I have removed the location until confirmation or otherwise. There are some bad people out there people. boneless)

cuddlycavies

Theres that go with first instinct thing again. First instinct was Goshawk, then you start looking at maybe this or that.

boneless

I was speaking to the good people in BWI today (see edit above). The jury is out as regards to identification of the bird with them but it was relayed to me that if it is a goshawk, it may be an escapee from a falconery. I would love to see these raptors back in numbers. I spent great days in North West Germany watching them.

boneless

According to Killian Mullarney it is a large female sparrowhawk. That identification is good enough for me .

Dusty87

boneless wrote: »

it was relayed to me that if it is a goshawk, it may be an escapee from a falconery.

Wasnt there a lad on here looking for his escaped goshawk???

tomahawk101

There was a chap on here that lost his male gos, but that was in a completely different part of the country. It is impossible to tell its a "big" female spar as the size of the bird cannot be determined when there is only sky as a background. This bird is a Goshawk, and as stated they are plentiful enough in Germany and are being seen over here on a more regular basis. I have kept and flown both male and female Goshawks and I have kept and flown both male and female sparrowhawks, and as an avid birdwatcher have watched both species here in the wild in Ireland. This bird is a male Gos between 2 and 6 years old. If the original poster who took the photos is still in any doubt, I would invite him to see my goshawk and video footage of a sparrowhawk being flown.
Cheers, Tom

Risarow

boneless wrote: »

According to Killian Mullarney it is a large female sparrowhawk. That identification is good enough for me .

Hi boneless

I would be very interested to know if Mr Mullarney was 100% certain with his identification of this bird as a sparrowhawk.

The reason I ask is that quiet a few posters reckoned it was a goshawk (I would list the posts if I knew how to multi-quote ) and if fact one poster listed enough detail to convince me that he has a detailed knowledge of raptors.

I also believe that the bird in the photos is a goshawk but, hey, what would I know

cuddlycavies

Risarow wrote: »

I also believe that the bird in the photos is a goshawk but, hey, what would I know

Once the scale if the bird in the photo was established, it could be confirmed that this bird is a Goshawk and that was confirmed by our falconer friend who flies them all the time .GOSHAWK

boneless

cuddlycavies wrote: »

Once the scale if the bird in the photo was established, it could be confirmed that this bird is a Goshawk and that was confirmed by our falconer friend who flies them all the time .GOSHAWK

Then the jury is still out on this ... Killian however, makes his living as an illustrator, so I would tend to be biased towards him. I love threads like this!!

Risarow

boneless wrote: »

Then the jury is still out on this ... Killian however, makes his living as an illustrator, so I would tend to be biased towards him. I love threads like this!!

I have seen Killians credentials - google is a wonderful thing - and I have to say they are impressive. I would, however, be interested to know has he ever flown raptors?

tomahawk101 wrote: »

I have kept and flown both male and female Goshawks and I have kept and flown both male and female sparrowhawks, and as an avid birdwatcher have watched both species here in the wild in Ireland. This bird is a male Gos between 2 and 6 years old.

You may be biased towards Killian but I would have to side with the falconer

boneless

We need more pics then !! OP, get the camera out again.

I am sure I don't have to remind people to keep the location under wraps just in case there are some individuals out there who would bear malice against such a bird.

Thanks Folks.

cuddlycavies

The bird is a GOSHAWK. Photographer has verified that the bird was bigger than a ''big'' hen spar. Expert falconer has verified with key identification features. I and others also thought Goshawk but can see that without that other info, a sparrowhawk option could not be ruled out. In light of this information being provided, it is a Goshawk. I have seen one over Glen Of The Downs five years ago.

Superdaddy

I know both Tommy and Killian and both are experts in their field. I think the photos are inconclusive and don't lend themselves to a positive ID. While what Tommy says about Goshawks in Ireland is 100% correct. My gut feeling is that it is a Female Sparrowhawk and thats where i'd put my money. But Tommy knows Goshawk better than i do, which makes me doubt my gut. I get similar pictures all the time and asked to identify species, i normally get it right. I think we'll never actually know unless we get better photos with more detail.

Connacht

Why don't you just ask the bird ...

Fredrick

Connacht wrote: »

Why don't you just ask the bird ...

I tried and it just made this high pitch sound and gave me this funny look???

Fredrick

By the way thanks to all that posted and the help, I have some more pics but the ones in the original post were the best of the bunch.

Cheer all

Risarow

Fredrick wrote: »

By the way thanks to all that posted and the help, I have some more pics but the ones in the original post were the best of the bunch.

Cheer all

Post the photos anyway.
There may be something that will help the experts to identify the bird and settle the arguement once and for all.

Sparrowhawk - goshawk?? goshawk - sparrowhawk ???

Now if only you had a gun instead of a camera ident would be so much easier....

Before I get lynched .... I was only JOKING :D

Fredrick

Risarow wrote: »

Post the photos anyway.
There may be something that will help the experts to identify the bird and settle the arguement once and for all.

Sparrowhawk - goshawk?? goshawk - sparrowhawk ???

Now if only you had a gun instead of a camera ident would be so much easier....

Before I get lynched .... I was only JOKING :D

Good one will try upload more today.

Fredrick

OK lads what about these :

cuddlycavies

Conclusive.Goshawk.

boneless

cuddlycavies wrote: »

Conclusive.Goshawk.

I am beginning to be swayed to this conclusion as well. I would still like to have something to scale the size of the bird though... I am a Doubting Thomas at the best of times.

Feargal as Luimneach

Fredrick wrote: »

Anyone know what type of raptor this one is, notice the white on the back of the wings?

Just browsing through archives, this looks like a sparrowhawk to me.

1. ear coverts colour appear too light in colour for goshawk, in goshawk alot darker
2. tail edges square-like, more rounded in goshawk.
3. wing tips blunt, goshawk more pointed.
4. goshawk has more deep-bellied appearance than this bird.
5. iris colour in this bird is yellow, orange in goshawk

Kess73

Fredrick wrote: »

OK lads what about these :

Only got to see this second set of pics from last year today thanks to Feargal bringing the thread back.

On the first page of this thread I said I thought it was a female sparrowhawk, and thses pics compound that for me for the same reasons.

The marking definition on the underwing and the wing length compared to body length.

Mr. Presentable

http://www.birdingintaiwan.org/Birdsintwn/Chinese%20Goshawk1.600.jpg

http://www.galleryofbirds.com/Europe/ImagesDec08/Sparrowhawk%20Slimbridge%20flight%20600.jpg

Much as I wish it wasn't, it's a sparrowhawk

Harry Hussey

Hi all,
May I state categorically that this bird is a definite Sparrowhawk, seemingly a juvenile on what can be seen of the plumage. If it is a juvenile, then that excludes any slim hopes of Goshawk immediately, as juvenile Goshawks are streaked below, not barred...
Otherwise, the head does not protrude as much as that of a Gos, the bird is comparatively lightweight, with a narrow ventral area (sometimes, especially when displaying, Sparrowhawks can fluff out their undertail coverts, making them look more like a Goshawk, but this bird isn't doing that) and a square-ended tail (as noted already).
Accurate assessment of the size of a lone bird is inherently unreliable, and even experienced birders can be way off in their judgement from time to time, so one can excuse claims that this was a very large bird. I once saw a bird, which I identified as a Sparrowhawk displaying, and thought to myself that it seemed quite large, and could be mistaken by some for a Goshawk...imagine my surprise when its mate got up and was much larger than it, the first bird was a MALE Sparrowhawk! They really do look larger when flying with slow wingbeats above the nesting wood. A Buzzard later got up in the same area, and dwarfed both birds, as could be expected (female Goshawk is almost the same size as a Buzzard).
Regards,
Harry