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Climategate?
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The emails are dodgy - they seem to show scientists worried about questions that people are raising about their data, and it's very bad form that they (a) wouldn't just release the full data set and (b) would discuss a deletion of emails to avoid an FOI request relevant to AR4 queries.
Of course, banks and oil companies regularly delete emails and shred files, just so that people won't be able to leak them. That isn't a scandal, but an accepted business practise.
Scientists are supposed to be above all of that and these guys have really shot themselves in the foot.
But that shouldn't be used as an excuse to ignore all of the other changes that are happening in the world. The CO2 is way above what it has ever been in recorded history. The earth has a fever. That aspect isn't in dispute.CO2 concentration has never gone above 280ppm in all the recorded cycles and now we are at 385ppm.
Lakes in Africa are drying up (Lake Chad for example, which was bigger than Israel). Research says that people have had to take more water from the rivers/lake because of droughts and climate change.
There is a 20 minute video on TED which shows time lapse photography of glaciers disappearing, retreating. It's stunning. (even though it takes about 10 mins to get going!)
http://www.ted.com/talks/james_balog_time_lapse_proof_of_extreme_ice_loss.html Here's a screenshot, but watching it in motion will shock you.
Climate scientists are not living lives of luxury, generally. Even though they have a motivation (funding) to convince people of their 'side', the money at stake is far less than on the sceptic side. Last year, Exxon posted profits of $45,000,000,000. Profit, not revenue. That's equivalent to our entire national budget.
So on the anti-climate change side, there is a profit motivation in discrediting researchers and plenty of the lobby groups are funded by oil companies. (here's an example)
I would ask the people on this thread that are saying the scientists are corrupt - how do you explain the disappearance of the glaciers?
No one disputes that the climate is changing. It was ever thus, although what is being claimed is that this time its different. The earth has been warmer than it is today and we are told the Vikings lived in a comparatively warm period.
The unfortunate consequence of these emails is that the veracity what these scientists have been saying is now shrouded in doubt, created by theses emails which appear to show that they are trying to fit the facts to suit their case, rather than developing their case based on the facts.
It may even be they are right, but their behaviour and antics now appear to call their veracity into question, assuming the emails are not a hoax.0 -
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The irony of many sceptics is how willing their are to believe selectively.
Interesting reading:
Statement from Professor Phil Jones, Head of the Climatic Research Unit, University of East Anglia.
CRU statement, including a detailed response to the allegations including:
https://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/2009/nov/homepagenews/CRUupdate
Irony is right.
Those emails touched upon another subject, the altering of the temperature record in order to conceal the true magnitude of the Mediaeval Warm Period (MWP)
From one of those emails:
The famous Mann hockey stick deflated the MWP so that it looked as if current temperatures were historically unprecedented, to the point there were claims that 20th century temperatures were the highest for a million years.
From: "Michael E. Mann" <mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: Phil Jones <p.jones@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, rbradley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, Tom Wigley <wigley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, Tom Crowley <tcrowley@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, Keith Briffa <k.briffa@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, trenbert@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, Michael Oppenheimer <omichael@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>, Jonathan Overpeck <jto@u.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Prospective Eos piece?
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 2003 10:17:57 -0400
Cc: mann@xxxxxxxxx.xxx, Scott Rutherford <srutherford@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
...
I think that trying to adopt a timeframe of 2K,
rather than the usual 1K, addresses a good earlier point that Peck made w/ regard to the
memo, that it would be nice to try to "contain" the putative "MWP", even if we don't yet
have a hemispheric mean reconstruction available that far back
There is another source that corroborates what is being suggested in that email - just in case anyone wants to claim it is taken out of context:
The extent of Mann's fiddling of the temperature record?Dr. David Deming (University of Oklahoma, College of Earth and Energy) said in his testimony to congress URL]http://epw.senate.gov/hearing_statements.cfm?id=266543[/URL “I had another interesting experience around the time my paper in Science was published. I received an astonishing email from a major researcher in the area of climate change. He said, "We have to get rid of the Medieval Warm Period.”
http://uddebatt.wordpress.com/2008/12/27/documenting-the-global-warming-fraud-%E2%80%9Cgetting-rid%E2%80%9D-of-the-medieval-warming-period/
The revisionist view of the temperature record just does not stand up to scrutiny.
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/news/archive/pr0310.htmlA review of more than 200 climate studies led by researchers at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics has determined that the 20th century is neither the warmest century nor the century with the most extreme weather of the past 1000 years. The review also confirmed that the Medieval Warm Period of 800 to 1300 A.D. and the Little Ice Age of 1300 to 1900 A.D. were worldwide phenomena not limited to the European and North American continents. While 20th century temperatures are much higher than in the Little Ice Age period, many parts of the world show the medieval warmth to be greater than that of the 20th century.
Those emails reveal a concerted effort by climatologists to peddle a pre-determined view by perverting the way science is supposed to be done - from fiddling the figures, to peer reviewing each others papers, to trying to get rid of inconvenient editors at scientific publications to political activism.
Just ask George Monbiot.It’s no use pretending that this isn’t a major blow. The emails extracted by a hacker from the climatic research unit at the University of East Anglia could scarcely be more damaging(1). I am now convinced that they are genuine, and I’m dismayed and deeply shaken by them.- George Monbiot on his personal blog
Oh yes, the irony!0 -
Climategate - The Video
Classic!
How someone came up with this so fast.. impressive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk
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You entirely miss the point that the main concern with global warming in this century is the rate at which it is proceeding. I don't think anyone is claiming that the 20th century or 21st are the warmest ever on record, nor do I think that claim is central to the science behind AGW.Several other studies have confirmed the key conclusion of Mann et al., i.e. the world is warmer today than at any point over the last thousand years. But it’s something of a moot point; the conclusion that we are currently making the world warmer does not depend on reconstructions of temperature prior to direct records.
both from the same side of the fence and completely different views..... somebodies logic is flawed here
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