Wolf sightings in Ireland

cruizer101

I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure that wolves havn't been introduced in Scotland.

Paul Lister the land owner is trying to bring them back but is having problems with the legality of it, as there is no legislation in place in UK for large nature reserves.
So its either enclosed and a zoo, illegal to have prey and predator together, or not enclosed and the wolves can wander freely.

I've had a look at the Alladale website and could find no mention of wolves being realeased so unless they did it and just aren't publisising the fact I don't think its happend yet.

It is something I'd love to see, but I'm not sure if Ireland has a large enough unpopulated area for it.

Finally just taken from website:
In the past 400 years a wild wolf has never killed a person in North America.

Amtmann

Grey Prickly Shoulder wrote: »

As for the assertion that Wolves would be shyer than Foxes and no threat to humans....Don't even start me on the errors in that.

Indeed. While I have no experience with wild wolves, I met a German ecologist who was working in many forested regions of Europe for the EU. He had no doubt that wolves can be very dangerous, particularly for women and children.

doctor evil

In Scotland they have right to roam where people can (supposedly in a responsible fashion) go across any land. The problem here is that for the enclosure needs to be permanently fenced in so noone will be able to cross it.

lightening

I may have read it wrong. Still looks like an amazing project.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kw6dftleQlU

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

lightening wrote: »

I didn't have any "digs" at the farming community, I just said they wouldn't go for it and I'm probably right.

Of course you are right in the case of wolves in that environment, or indeed any in Ireland at present. But it's irrelevent to the discussion as the feelings of farmers on this would not be an issue as it's an impractical suggestion anyway.

I realise this is only a discussion but that doesn't negate the need to have a proper balanced and educated debate. Lets reintroduce the Great Bustard although we don't have any of the conditions necessary for it's survival. Let's bring back Bears etc...

No high horse intended. I just correct where necessary and try to give the practical points omitted in some assertions made.

lightening

Grey Prickly Shoulder wrote: »

No high horse intended.

Yeah, fair enough... I was sort of clambering up on one myself there.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

cruizer101 wrote: »

In the past 400 years a wild wolf has never killed a person in North America.

Research carreid out (Linnell et al 2002) showed that in the last fifty years the researchers could only find records of something over seventeen people killed in Europe and Russia, and none in North America. However hundred of non-fatal attacks were recorded.
They identified three kinds of wolf attack:
Rabid - where wolves have gone mad because the rabies virus has infected their brains.
Predatory - unprovoked attacks where wolves appear to regard humans as prey.
Defensive - where wolves are provoked by people to attack, such as when trapped or cornered.

In 1996 a wolf was reported to have killed dozens of small children from about 50 villages in Uttar Pradesh, central north India (Jhala et al 1997).

Why do attacks on children occur? One hypothesis (Mech 1998) is:

- there is almost no wild prey for the wolves;

- the wolves live very close to people;

- the wolves lose their fear of people;

- the wolves are inquisitive;

- a wolf approaches small isolated children;

- the wolf learns children can be grabbed;

- the learning spreads to other wolves;

Food for thought!

johngalway

doctor evil wrote: »

In Scotland they have right to roam where people can (supposedly in a responsible fashion) go across any land. The problem here is that for the enclosure needs to be permanently fenced in so noone will be able to cross it.

That's not actually strictly true. There is a right to roam, but, it doesn't apply to all land. Don't ask me for the specific correction as I read it on a site I'm no longer welcome on But there are limitations to the right to roam.

lightening

Srameen, I have been to India. Things are so different over there it's just not comparable. The way kids are raised, the freedom, the isolation, the poverty, the lack of education, the age they start working on the land, the lack of natural prey for the wolf. In general the regard for life is different. From what I can gather nobody worked out if it was a rogue wolf (old or injured), a pack or different wolves that killed the kids. But, its a dot compared to the amount of kids that die from other causes in India. It's the maddest country I a have been to. Driving is taking your life in your hands!

I reckon Ireland would be more comparable to North America. If we had the room, but you reckon we don't. I don't really know, I have done a good bit of hillwalking and climbing around Killarney and Jaysus, if really feels big!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

lightening wrote: »

I have done a good bit of hillwalking and climbing around Killarney and Jaysus, if really feels big!

Good One!
I've spent time in the wild in the US Mid-West and it's impossible to describe the isolation and the sheer vastness of the place. The same was true in Alaska when we moved away from the coast. Even flying over the place it's huge. Our little island seemed insignificant when we flew in on the way home.

I accept the difference in India but it still remains that Wolves have attacked and injured many people in Europe and will avail of opportunities.

jackthekipper

Bit off topic, but on News Talks sports show Off the Ball they do a section called Murphs Country Pages where they read ridiculous pieces from regional newspapers. Think it was last summer they read about a sighting of a black beast in Kerry. it was described as having the head of a dog with the legs of a dog.

Judgement Day

How unusual ' the head of a dog with the legs of a dog' - was there no body or was it just the head with four legs sticking out of it?

Valmont

cruizer101 wrote: »

Finally just taken from website:
In the past 400 years a wild wolf has never killed a person in North America.

Wrong I'm afraid. Kenton Joel Carnegie was killed by wolves in 2005 (coroner's inquest after two years said so). The point that wolves are, for all intents and purposes, harmless still stands however as the odds of even seeing a wolf in North America let alone get attacked by one are slim indeed.

We definitely don't have the room for wolves here in Ireland although I'd imagine that Scotland could maintain a few dozen of them. I don't see it happening to be honest, too much red tape.

Srameen, where were you in Alaska? I lived in Healy for 5 months this year and 4 months last year. I also spent a month on the Kenai peninsula. I loved the place and am still sad I can't go back.

Valmont

Furet wrote: »

He had no doubt that wolves can be very dangerous, particularly for women and children.

Was he implying that wolves will knowingly go for women but not men? I really don't see where the idea that wolves are really that much of a threat to people. I say this as I was surprised by one this summer and it passed to within 10 feet from me (no exaggeration, you can the photo I posted), I came across two of them last summer and they ran off and finally I was out camping this August when a pack decided to start howling, they couldn't have been more than half a mile around me. Plus, with all the Alaskan hunters and trappers I spent time with, I never even heard anything about a wolf that implied they are a threat. My two cents anyway.

Amtmann

Valmont wrote: »

Was he implying that wolves will knowingly go for women but not men? I really don't see where the idea that wolves are really that much of a threat to people.

Many large mammalian predators such as wolves go for the females and young of prey species.

Also, see here.

lightening

Grey Prickly Shoulder wrote: »

I've spent time in the wild in the US Mid-West and it's impossible to describe the isolation and the sheer vastness of the place. The same was true in Alaska when we moved away from the coast. Even flying over the place it's huge. Our little island seemed insignificant when we flew in on the way home.

Yeah, never been to that part of the world so I can only imagine. I guess you have to see it to appreciate it. Shame about the lack of our own indigenous forests. Have you been in the wilds in Kerry? I mean a good bit in? It's pretty wild, you wouldn't wonder in without a compass, map, bivvy bag and all sorts of other stuff, wild deer, wild goat, plenty of people have been helicoptered out, dead and alive. I probably have a bit of a romantic childish imagination, but I can really visualize a small pack there along with boars and other long forgotten Irish wildlife. More wishful thinking than anything else I guess. Imagine, Irish safaris and wildlife excursions with a chance to see wolves.

Dusty87

lightening wrote: »

Killarney might be a goer for this type of a project in Ireland, but I really can't see the farming community going for it. Also, it might leave a few upset hunters with us reverting back to the natural way of culling the deer.

There's Red Deer in Kerry, and if im not mistaken cant be hunted anyway.
Could be wrong, maybe one of the deer hunters could confirm this.

lightening wrote: »

There are urban foxes in most urban areas, but they are no harm. Wolves would be a good bit shyer than foxes. I don't think there would be a threat to humans.

I wouldnt think a hungry pack of wolves would be shy if a child wanders by after getting lost in the park. How often do children get lost? I dunno but it has happened.

lightening

Dusty87 wrote: »

I wouldnt think a hungry pack of wolves would be shy if a child wanders by after getting lost in the park. How often do children get lost? I dunno but it has happened.

I don't know what park you are talking about. I am pretty sure kids get lost in parks around the country all the time. I actually don't have any wolves, and I don't intend to release packs of hungry wolves with machine guns strapped to their heads in to various parks and playgrounds to maul and eat the poor trildren. I am just having a discussion about a very wild part of Ireland where lots of indigenous wildlife already exists. It's a vast area with lots of mountains and valleys. The terrain is pretty rough and I don't think a kid would get far before being missed to be honest.

anonymous_joe

Haven't they reintroduced wolves in Scotland?

I know that the over proliferation of deer married to wild goats, etc, is meant to be playing havoc with various woodland areas.

johngalway

Dunno what ye're worrying about farmers for anyhow.

Joe Duffy, would have a field day.

M.Maa.Maire! You're, in Kerrrrrrrreeeeee is that roight?

Mai Gahd, Maire, and, are they scratching at your window as we talk Maire?

Dear, dear me Maire, is the baby safe Maire, Should the army be called in Maire?

My God Maire...


And so forth

lightening

I know, imagine the hysteria. We are just talking about it here, dreaming about it, imagining it and already we have them raping and eating lost kids in the park.

Joe would love it... "does he have you by the larynx Mary, or is it a bad line, me screen is lighting up here"

spudington16

Valmont wrote: »

If I recall correctly, it was 1786 (I read it in a natural history article somewhere). An absolute shame really. There is nothing quite as magical as trying to sleep in the woods with a pack howling only a mile away!

I'm pretty sure it was July the 19th - I'll check...

Yup - July 19:

1. End of the Ice Age
2. Galway liberated from the Indians
3. Holiday
4. Last wolf killed in Kerry

jackthekipper

johngalway wrote: »

Dunno what ye're worrying about farmers for anyhow.

Joe Duffy, would have a field day.

M.Maa.Maire! You're, in Kerrrrrrrreeeeee is that roight?

Mai Gahd, Maire, and, are they scratching at your window as we talk Maire?

Dear, dear me Maire, is the baby safe Maire, Should the army be called in Maire?

My God Maire...


And so forth

Dear God Joe, he's humping my leg, this never used to happen years ago.

Rovi

Nah, the wolf will be outside the house, huffing and puffing...

jackthekipper

Grey Prickly Shoulder wrote: »

Good One!
I've spent time in the wild in the US Mid-West and it's impossible to describe the isolation and the sheer vastness of the place. The same was true in Alaska when we moved away from the coast. Even flying over the place it's huge. Our little island seemed insignificant when we flew in on the way home.

I accept the difference in India but it still remains that Wolves have attacked and injured many people in Europe and will avail of opportunities.

I think in Yellowstone there are camping trips available where the aim is to go wolf spotting, at night you can hear them howling, must be cool as hell is sh!t the togs kind of way.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Haven't they reintroduced wolves in Scotland?

I know that the over proliferation of deer married to wild goats, etc, is meant to be playing havoc with various woodland areas.

1. No they haven't.
2. Deer married to wild Goats? They wouldn't even crossbreed let alone have any kind of formal marriage arrangement.:D

Amtmann

lightening wrote: »

Yeah, never been to that part of the world so I can only imagine. I guess you have to see it to appreciate it. Shame about the lack of our own indigenous forests. Have you been in the wilds in Kerry? I mean a good bit in? It's pretty wild, you wouldn't wonder in without a compass, map, bivvy bag and all sorts of other stuff, wild deer, wild goat, plenty of people have been helicoptered out, dead and alive. I probably have a bit of a romantic childish imagination, but I can really visualize a small pack there along with boars and other long forgotten Irish wildlife. More wishful thinking than anything else I guess. Imagine, Irish safaris and wildlife excursions with a chance to see wolves.

Surely you're ever only about 2km away from the nearest one-off house. What a blight they are. :mad:

stevoman

try keep it serious kids

lightening

Furet wrote: »

Surely you're ever only about 2km away from the nearest one-off house. What a blight they are. :mad:

Naaaah... No way? Has it got that bad? The celtic tiger tack mansions? I actually haven't been a good bit in to the interior in a while. Jaysus, you are a lot more than two klicks away from a one of house on Djouce in Wicklow, surely Kerry hasn't got that bad?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Just to settle this. If you go to Google Maps and get the satellite image for the area, zoom in and see if you can get a radius of 2Km anywhere around Killarney without a house or road.