Keto Problems:

CoachBoone

Well, not problems really, Im more looking for tips from people on this diet on how they cope with training and recovery.

I've been on it about 10 days now, havent carbed up properly at all yet as I as advised by the good people on here not too for the first while.

I have had a day where I had more carbs than usual, perhaps 70-80g but nothing outrageous.

My questions are:

When on the diet I find recovery takes a hell of a lot longer than usual. I did a workout on monday, full body, and still havent fully recovered? Is there anything I can do to aid this?

Secondly, I find I have very little energy cardio wise when on the diet, I get gassed easier. I find that I get tired and fatigued much quicker? Anyone have any tips for this either?

I suspect the second question is a case of having done the full body workout and not had any carbs to help recovery... but am not entirely sure.

Cheers for the help.

corkcomp

CoachBoone wrote: »

Well, not problems really, Im more looking for tips from people on this diet on how they cope with training and recovery.

I've been on it about 10 days now, havent carbed up properly at all yet as I as advised by the good people on here not too for the first while.

I have had a day where I had more carbs than usual, perhaps 70-80g but nothing outrageous.

My questions are:

When on the diet I find recovery takes a hell of a lot longer than usual. I did a workout on monday, full body, and still havent fully recovered? Is there anything I can do to aid this?

Secondly, I find I have very little energy cardio wise when on the diet, I get gassed easier. I find that I get tired and fatigued much quicker? Anyone have any tips for this either?

I suspect the second question is a case of having done the full body workout and not had any carbs to help recovery... but am not entirely sure.

Cheers for the help.

in my experience, keto diets are very difficult if you are trying to lift heavy and / or do any decent cardio. If you want to do a good cardio session have a bowl of porridge or a couple of apples before hand, it wont make you fat ..

CoachBoone

corkcomp wrote: »

in my experience, keto diets are very difficult if you are trying to lift heavy and / or do any decent cardio. If you want to do a good cardio session have a bowl of porridge or a couple of apples before hand, it wont make you fat ..

Lol. Really? You sure?:D

Seriously though, I realise it wont make me fat(ter) but I dont want to risk undoing all the work Ive done. Im sure it wouldnt happen but its an unknown to me... thats why Im asking.

corkcomp

CoachBoone wrote: »

Lol. Really? You sure?:D

Seriously though, I realise it wont make me fat(ter) but I dont want to risk undoing all the work Ive done. Im sure it wouldnt happen but its an unknown to me... thats why Im asking.

even when I was laying off the carbs a bit previously, I always had porridge and fruit for brekkie, and then hit the gym .. the days I had eggs and bacon instead I was only able to run about 1.5km before hitting the wall .. I dunno, maybe some people can function better on keto diets but fat is the main source of energy for lower intensity exercise and carbs for anerobic so maybe doing keto and trying to do a lot of exercise is counter productive?

brianthebard

Are you getting enough dietary fat? I have a very very rudimentary understanding of this nutrition crack but think I read that fat is what is needed for recovery? (probably totally wrong). Perhaps post your weight and diet and other factors so people can see if everything is as it should be?

john_cappa

post you exact diet including portion sizes

celestial

Glycogen depletion can impede recovery. Like corkcomp says - no need to cut carbs so drastically if you are also training hard - get some good stuff like porridge in etc, for fuel.

john_cappa

celestial wrote: »

Glycogen depletion can impede recovery. Like corkcomp says - no need to cut carbs so drastically if you are also training hard - get some good stuff like porridge in etc, for fuel.

Depends very much on over all diet and whether or not they are doing SKD, TKD or CKD

corkcomp

john_cappa wrote: »

Depends very much on over all diet and whether or not they are doing SKD, TKD or CKD

I think what celestial was trying to say is that getting into ketosis is not necessary to lose weight ... the g's of carbs that you can take in while remaining in ketosis will depend on exercise etc so it might be 30g or it might be 60g ..

john_cappa

corkcomp wrote: »

I think what celestial was trying to say is that getting into ketosis is not necessary to lose weight ... the g's of carbs that you can take in while remaining in ketosis will depend on exercise etc so it might be 30g or it might be 60g ..

Oh fair enough. Decent link below for info. First 125 or so pages are free!


http://books.google.ie/books?id=JtCZBe-2XVIC&dq=ketogenic+diet&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=dMNRe3DRHE&sig=aDeLTn4y8oEFyzjcrP3zeSeWycM&hl=en&ei=7W4FS-6zAYiF4Qae98XLCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCcQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

celestial

corkcomp wrote: »

I think what celestial was trying to say is that getting into ketosis is not necessary to lose weight ... the g's of carbs that you can take in while remaining in ketosis will depend on exercise etc so it might be 30g or it might be 60g ..

Yup. Really it's a case of seeing what works for you in accordance with your goals. Absolutely no doubt that reducing starchy carbs is great for fat loss but if it's affecting your training then you probably need to increase them a little (and see what effect that then has).

CoachBoone

My exact diet is~:

3 egg Omellete with 3 rashers and cheese. Pint water with some mi wadi.

2 Mince Burgers with Mayo and Cheese.

Fried/Grilled Chicken Breast with salad and tomatos.

Smoked Salmon stuffed with Cheese.

Another Chicken Salad.

Then prob 3 spoons of peanut butter daily.

CoachBoone

celestial wrote: »

Yup. Really it's a case of seeing what works for you in accordance with your goals. Absolutely no doubt that reducing starchy carbs is great for fat loss but if it's affecting your training then you probably need to increase them a little (and see what effect that then has).

Yeah this is what I was looking for really. I want enough carbs to be able to train properly but not enough to go out of ketosis.

Im not sure how I would judge whats enough and whats too much, I guess thats the crux of the issue.

corkcomp

CoachBoone wrote: »

Yeah this is what I was looking for really. I want enough carbs to be able to train properly but not enough to go out of ketosis.

Im not sure how I would judge whats enough and whats too much, I guess thats the crux of the issue.

you need way more carbs in the form of veg man .. stuff like brocolli and other greens wont over load you with carbs .. also, you dont really need to be 100% in ketosis unless you chose to be.. from what i can see you have barely any carbs at all in there ...

CoachBoone

corkcomp wrote: »

you need way more carbs in the form of veg man .. stuff like brocolli and other greens wont over load you with carbs .. also, you dont really need to be 100% in ketosis unless you chose to be.. from what i can see you have barely any carbs at all in there ...

I thought that was the idea? At least to start with?

CoachBoone

Another thing I might add is:

I find it very hard to actually eat. I have to force some meals into me. I feel full pretty much all the time. I'd say I force 2-3/5 meals a day into me.

What if I was to have some Veg soup every day. Include some steam broccoli with some meals too? Would that cover me carbs wise?

ragg

I carb up before and after training - your on the same track, but you get the energy boost before and you the carbs are needed to recover after lifting

corkcomp

ragg wrote: »

I carb up before and after training - your on the same track, but you get the energy boost before and you the carbs are needed to recover after lifting

thats the thing tou, the op doesnt appear to be taking carbs before OR after training, ive found in the past i could get away with pre wo carb up and not many carbs pwo .. but not taking in some form of carb anytime around training will ensure you dont perform to full potential imo ..

CoachBoone

Cheers for the help lads,

I was in a rush to training today so had a small bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes (I know...). I couldnt get over the difference it made.

Anyone have any suggestions for quick meals pre workout that arent full of sugar?

kumate_champ07

Ive cut down carbs myself and today was the first time it really effected me. I almost collapsed while deadlifting on my last set, started to drift away and the weight dropped and it took me a min or 2 to come fully back, it was scary

carried on the workout and felt like I was running on empty. a few hrs later I had a short cycle and on the way back I was zapped, ready to collapse from low blood sugar so I had to get some chocolate. I need to look more closely at my diet!

corkcomp

CoachBoone wrote: »

Cheers for the help lads,

I was in a rush to training today so had a small bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes (I know...). I couldnt get over the difference it made.

Anyone have any suggestions for quick meals pre workout that arent full of sugar?

porridge made in microwave? or muesli? or home made oat pancakes/ flapjacks?

the prob with restricting carbs too much (for some people) is thatyou will end up going for chocolate or while bread or other junk .. far better to take in complexcarbs which will reduce cravings for bad stuff, for me anyways ..

ragg

CoachBoone wrote: »

Cheers for the help lads,

I was in a rush to training today so had a small bowl of crunchy nut cornflakes (I know...). I couldnt get over the difference it made.

Anyone have any suggestions for quick meals pre workout that arent full of sugar?

Chicken sandwich on granary with a cup of coffee -

Also, things like crunchy nut cornflakes shouldn't be had, as they are full of sugar, will spike isulun, the resulting crash will make you feel hungry.

A low GI carb source like porridge or granary bread, wont be as bad.

CoachBoone

corkcomp wrote: »

porridge made in microwave? or muesli? or home made oat pancakes/ flapjacks?

the prob with restricting carbs too much (for some people) is thatyou will end up going for chocolate or while bread or other junk .. far better to take in complexcarbs which will reduce cravings for bad stuff, for me anyways ..

Would you believe we dont have a microwave? I dont know why either. Just never had one. I think we are the only house in the country not to have one.:pac:

That said, I dont really get cravings but I still realise the benefits of complex carbs, its just this time I was pretty stuck for time.

ragg wrote: »

Chicken sandwich on granary with a cup of coffee -

Also, things like crunchy nut cornflakes shouldn't be had, as they are full of sugar, will spike isulun, the resulting crash will make you feel hungry.

A low GI carb source like porridge or granary bread, wont be as bad.

Yeah, same as above, I realise this but am able to not eat when I know Im I dont actually need it, cravings arent really affecting me lately.

Cheers lads.

Vampireskiss

Im my opinion low carb diets are a band aid approach to losing weight. I mean do you intend to stick to this diet forever and if not and you do lose weight and reach your goals then your only going to revert back to the way you were if you go back to the same diet you were on before you started this diet.Carbs arent bad, in fact if you are training hard they are essential

CoachBoone

Vampireskiss wrote: »

Im my opinion low carb diets are a band aid approach to losing weight. I mean do you intend to stick to this diet forever and if not and you do lose weight and reach your goals then your only going to revert back to the way you were if you go back to the same diet you were on before you started this diet.Carbs arent bad, in fact if you are training hard they are essential

I intend to change my long term diet to something healthier and sustainable once I lose the weight.

That said, I have read many of your opinions, mostly on the soccer forum, and tbh, they hold zero weight with me. This is just another in a long line I will be ignoring.

celestial

CoachBoone wrote: »

Yeah this is what I was looking for really. I want enough carbs to be able to train properly but not enough to go out of ketosis.

Im not sure how I would judge whats enough and whats too much, I guess thats the crux of the issue.

I wouldn't focus too much on the ketosis aspect, just keep the starchy carbs low and see what results you are getting. A good approach is to have carbs for breakfast (e.g. porridge, Shredded Wheat, Weetabix, fruit), less carbs for lunch (e.g. meat, veg, small amount of potato etc) and then none for dinner/evening meal (e.g. meat, fish, cheese, nuts, eggs). This works well as it gives you an energy build up during the early part of the day for training, while at the same time reducing overall carb intake (and cutting them out in the later evening before bed). This is my diet.

Long term the above is something you can easily manage - it's a great way of phasing into a low carb lifestyle without feeling like a shock to the system (which ketosis can prove to be) and without feeling like you are missing out on spuds/bread etc (bread especially feels like stodge after a while!)

corkcomp

CoachBoone wrote: »

I intend to change my long term diet to something healthier and sustainable once I lose the weight.

That said, I have read many of your opinions, mostly on the soccer forum, and tbh, they hold zero weight with me. This is just another in a long line I will be ignoring.

i dont remember right off if ive read any other posts by vampirekiss so I can only comment on the one above and its spot on IMO .. if you cut out the obvious bad carbs and keep the good ones like fruit, veg, porridge and some whole grains you should be able to come up with a sustainable diet in the long term .. unless you want to spend your life in ketosis, i wouldnt bother ... ive lost a LOT of weight previously, withoutever going into ketosis

imstrongerthanu

Your not doing keto op.................