DTT Mt Leinster, Ch45 blocking Presely in the South East

slegs

Digifriendly wrote: »

Have you accurate figures for this?

According to an RTE publication called Television Audience Measurement 18% of households or 272k who receive TV receive RTE from terrestrial analog. 82% of TV households or over 1.2m receive RTE as part of a multichannel package.

Sam Russell

I have sourced a supply of STBs that cost $20 in low numbers (~100) from the far east. That price translates into less the €40 end user, and could be supplied in large numbers fairly quickly. The key to successful ASO is the supply of low cost STBs in large numbers that are simple to install and configure. The shorter the switchover, the more effective it will be. The telly is important to very many people, and losing it will spur them to action. I have had a succession of $ky people at my door telling me lies about how I would have to convert to $ky because of ASO. A concerted concentrated campaign would work. (IMHO) The only problem I see are those pre-SCART tellies.

Whether there is a pay DTT is irrelevant to this. Those bringing pay DTT will have to supply their own STB with encryption installed, and have to subsidise them. Those currently receiving RTE from an aerial have resisted paying for TV so far, and are not likely to change.

The Cush

slegs wrote: »

1. DTT will and has to happen if only because there is no VIABLE alternative. Your alternative is pie in the sky and in any case the majority of the investment is now made. The rollout has stopped until the question of what Pay DTT is clarified. When will it officially launch? should be next year but who knows.

The rollout is still underway, Suir Valley and Waterford have just recently rolled out. They were in a group of 13 relays tendered for last Feb.

Castlebar was down for maintenance during the last two days according to an announcement on RTE 1 last, upgrade work??

copacetic

slegs wrote: »

According to an RTE publication called Television Audience Measurement 18% of households or 272k who receive TV receive RTE from terrestrial analog. 82% of TV households or over 1.2m receive RTE as part of a multichannel package.

http://tvsales.rte.ie/downloads/TV_Audience_Measurement.pdf

STB

Deleted User wrote: »

If you have a presely aerial in wexford/south wicklow and other parts of the south east -you will get close to 20 psb radio and tv channels from wales free and untouched by rte interference.
You will get nothing on 3 of the mt leinster channels that rte are "supposed" to be marketing to one vision.

Now the point is,who in their right mind would take down their presely aerial so as to allow the other mt leinster channels to come in when you get BBC1,2,ITV1 and 2,BBC3,4, channel four and five etc for free and one vision would want you to pay for that??!

No one will be disconnecting their presely aerials anytime soon and the freeview boxes and the ability to tune the channels in on digital tv's is spreading like wildfire in the area.

Its nice of course to receive free foreign TV but terrestrial overspill is not a divine right and should not be depended on.

STB

Mr DTV please get it into your head that Freeview has no bearing on the Irish DTT population as a whole outside of the border area of this country. Infact most of the country have never heard of Freeview nor DVB-T2 and never will.

Freeview boxes will not work in this country for Irish DTT and British DTT as a single standalone.

People using cheap MPEG2 boxes along the east coast of Ireland should not depend on the stability of overspill anyway. The UK terrestrial licence does not extend to this country. Whatever about satellite paterns, I'm sure your country's taxpayers dont intentionally pay for terrestrial signal to extend so far.

You do seem to have an agenda about the licenced frequencies for Ireland though affecting the reception of UK terrestiall overspill into Ireland which amuses me.

You also trumpet DVB-T2 as the next saviour of the world (and maybe it will be !!!) but unfortunately in the medium term it will bear little difference to the MPEG4 DVB-T technology that the majority of EU countries have adopted and use. I know your excited about it but it really doesnt effect our rollout of DTT in Ireland.

Again its a brave move by the UK to test this initially but that is all it is a test - 2 or 3 Mpeg4 HD stations on DVB-T2 is not a full service by UK standards. The truth in that matter is that these few stations will co-exist alongside the same UK MPEG2 technology that has existed for years in the UK and more many more years to come. The full rollout of DVB-T2 for all muxes and all content in the UK is a long long way down the road so it is inevitable that it will take years to move people in the UK to this new expensive equipment with the promises of a few HD stations which are freely available on satellite via affordable HD sat boxes and HD Combo Sat DVB-T1 boxes. You are alone for now. When DVB-T2 takes off comercially in your country and boxes become affordable (dont forget people in th UK will be reluctant to pay £180 for "HD" on DVB-t2 for the same sevices they can watch in SD on a £20 MPEG2 box) then those along the border may wish to invest in this common technology. In the meantime there is plenty of affordable MPEG4 DVB-T receivers readily available for Ireland (AND the UK!).

Yes there is certainly a monstruous market for the BBCs and ITVs in Ireland and always has been through the proliferation and success of pipe TV in Ireland (long before Sky came in).

That Ireland benefits from Sat patterns and with the launch of freesat/fta BBC etc is and has been the elephant in the room. With more and more people now discovering that they dont actually need to pay Sky for these stations and when RTE finally say okay we are kicking on with or without a partner then you will see a lot more use of of combo boxes in Ireland. Who knows, they may choose to use have a second mux themselves down the road.

Fortunately digital will roll out regardless sooner rather than later. The only reason I respond to your posts is to stop the confusion you cause in relation to technology not applicable to the whole of Ireland now or in the next 5 years.

Digifriendly

copacetic wrote: »

http://tvsales.rte.ie/downloads/TV_Audience_Measurement.pdf

Thanks very much. ROI well advanced in terms of receiving multi-channel television especially with satellite/cable. Maybe they should just forget about DTT altogether and save some money!

slegs

Digifriendly wrote: »

Thanks very much. ROI well advanced in terms of receiving multi-channel television especially with satellite/cable. Maybe they should just forget about DTT altogether and save some money!

What DTT gives is 2 things

1. An altertnative for someone to have free digital TV in combination with freesat/satellite FTA
2. a replacement for that 18% who do receive from analog when switch off occurs.

For both of these reasons it is very important. For those who are happy with their Sky/UPC/Other pay tv package it is less relevant.

sesswhat

slegs wrote: »

According to an RTE publication called Television Audience Measurement 18% of households or 272k who receive TV receive RTE from terrestrial analog. 82% of TV households or over 1.2m receive RTE as part of a multichannel package.

If I'm reading the same document I make it 47 + 22 = 69%.

That leaves 31%.

18% with 4 (or less) Irish terrestrial channels.

I'm presuming the other 13% include those receiving other channels through UK overspill or deflectors.

Edit: The 13% will include MMDS packages as well so the figure for packages will be somewhere between 69% and the 82%.

They also do not differentiate between people who are actually getting RTE through the package, and those who have terrestrial RTE and the extra channels FTA.

marclt

Do those RTE figures measure viewing habits on the main tv in the house, or on the second, third, fourth etc.

I'd have a feeling that in actual fact, 18% is rather low in terms of households. Very few houses would have sky multiroom or cable boxes in childrens bedrooms for example.

Those figures look better for the pay carriers than RTE.

sesswhat

marclt wrote: »

Do those RTE figures measure viewing habits on the main tv in the house, or on the second, third, fourth etc.

I'd have a feeling that in actual fact, 18% is rather low in terms of households. Very few houses would have sky multiroom or cable boxes in childrens bedrooms for example.

Those figures look better for the pay carriers than RTE.

Nothing to do with viewing habits, just general information on what channels the home can receive overall and what methods of reception are present.

Obviously if it were on per TV basis, the terrestrial-only percentages would be much higher.

slegs

sesswhat wrote: »

If I'm reading the same document I make it 47 + 22 = 69%.

That leaves 31%.

18% with 4 (or less) Irish terrestrial channels.

I'm presuming the other 13% include those receiving other channels through UK overspill or deflectors.

Edit: The 13% will include MMDS packages as well so the figure for RTE through a package will be somewhere between 69% and the 82%.

This is the section

Irish Terrestrial (Dual)
In Ireland, four national television channels are currently
available free-to-air through an analogue terrestrial television
network. These include RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3 and TG4
There are currently 272,000 homes, which only receive the
four Irish channels. This represents 18% of all TV households
The four free-to-air national channels are a 'must-carry' obligation on all
cable transmissions and on digital MMDS transmissions

Multi-Total
Ireland has a strong demand for multi-channel television, driven
largely by the popularity of UK channels
Multi-channel homes are homes, which receive more than just
the four Irish channels, either by MMDS, Cable, Satellite or
Digital
There are currently 1,219,000 multi-channel homes in
Ireland, which represents 82% of total TV households

mrdtv

Digifriendly wrote: »

Thanks very much. ROI well advanced in terms of receiving multi-channel television especially with satellite/cable. Maybe they should just forget about DTT altogether and save some money!

An interesting possibility to go down that route: but it requires a FTV satellite card system to replace rural analogue terrestrial coverage. With the very poor economic situation and continuing uncertainty about RTE's finances and the absence of any firm bidder its more likely that either the tests will be spun out further or in the worst case scenario suspended. The economy will be the overarching consideration for RTE, potential bidders, and this indicates that nothing will happen anytime soon. Analogue terrestrial is likely to continue for a while longer as a stopgap measure and, of course, network costs are long since written off.

sesswhat

My point is that this....

slegs wrote: »

This is the section

Irish Terrestrial (Dual)
In Ireland, four national television channels are currently
available free-to-air through an analogue terrestrial television
network. These include RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3 and TG4
There are currently 272,000 homes, which only receive the
four Irish channels. This represents 18% of all TV households
The four free-to-air national channels are a 'must-carry' obligation on all
cable transmissions and on digital MMDS transmissions

Multi-Total
Ireland has a strong demand for multi-channel television, driven
largely by the popularity of UK channels
Multi-channel homes are homes, which receive more than just
the four Irish channels, either by MMDS, Cable, Satellite or
Digital
There are currently 1,219,000 multi-channel homes in
Ireland, which represents 82% of total TV households

...does not directly mean this..

slegs wrote: »

According to an RTE publication called Television Audience Measurement 18% of households or 272k who receive TV receive RTE from terrestrial analog. 82% of TV households or over 1.2m receive RTE as part of a multichannel package.

For example, I'm not in the first group

which only receive the
four Irish channels

so I must be in the Multi total group. Yet I don't receive RTE as part of a multichannel package. There are many who get the UK channels FTA through terrestrial or satellite but still depend on terrestrial RTE.

slegs

sesswhat wrote: »

My point is that this....



...does not directly mean this..



For example, I'm not in the first group so I must be in the Multi total group. Yet I don't receive RTE as part of a multichannel package. There are many who get the UK channels FTA through terrestrial or satellite but still depend on terrestrial RTE.

I would say that they are being liberal with their numbers but at the same time I would say the number of people who get UK FTA without adding RTE from an aerial would be very small

Satdog

slegs wrote: »

This is the section

Irish Terrestrial (Dual)
In Ireland, four national television channels are currently
available free-to-air through an analogue terrestrial television
network. These include RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TV3 and TG4
There are currently 272,000 homes, which only receive the
four Irish channels. This represents 18% of all TV households
The four free-to-air national channels are a 'must-carry' obligation on all
cable transmissions and on digital MMDS transmissions

Multi-Total
Ireland has a strong demand for multi-channel television, driven
largely by the popularity of UK channels
Multi-channel homes are homes, which receive more than just
the four Irish channels, either by MMDS, Cable, Satellite or
Digital
There are currently 1,219,000 multi-channel homes in
Ireland, which represents 82% of total TV households

What about those that get Irish terrestrial via aerial and UK channels via overspill? Or is the fact that UK channels via overspill is ignored and they're included in the former.

STB

Not to confuse matters, but the most uptodate figs are freely are available from media sites like medialive.ie (its Nielsen tables so wont paste).



There is also a profile of TV Homes for 2008 showing Total TV Homes, Multi-Channel Home, Cab/Sat Homes, and Digital Homes. And then a breakdown by Dublin and province and number of TV sets etc

slegs

Satdog wrote: »

What about those that get Irish terrestrial via aerial and UK channels via overspill? Or is the fact that UK channels via overspill is ignored and they're included in the former.

I would think so

Satdog

"lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Sponge Bob

Some more tuning is expected in the south east as the new relays are rolled out, Waterford ( Gallows hill) and Suir valley are both live IIRC and Fourth mountain is due very shortly along with Arklow. These are all Mt Leinster Relays in the main.

All are on a list tendered out by RTENL in Feb 2009 so less of the paranoid conspiracy crap from some of yiz.

They are all relays serving sizeable population areas rather than sizeable geographic areas , I would think 30k persons per deployment on average.

I suspect they will not blast 4 muxes out of Maghera until Galway and Loughrea go live first. Thans to the Cush for dragging the list up

The 13 sites listed in the tender were

* Arklow, Co. Wicklow
* Suir Valley, , Co Kilkenny
* Forth Mountain, Co. Wexford
* Gallows Hill, Co. Waterford
* Drogheda (Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital), Co. Louth
* Tonabrocky, Co. Galway
* Tipperary, Co. Tipperary
* Killarney, Co. Kerry
* Navan, Co. Meath
* Skerries, Co Dublin
* Loughrea, Co. Galway
* Árainn Mhór, Co. Donegal
* Letterkenny, Co. Donegal

Sponge Bob

RTE have also decided to replace the Maghera and Mount Leinster masts with something larger ....but not for another few years.

They replaced Mullaghanish and Truskmore over the past year but the other tow were not programmed for a new mast until this year. That probably explains why the Relays that RTE tendered out and indeed installed ( eg Waterford) bear no relation to "List B" proposed by Comreg in 2007 here page 41.

The main transmitters remain as the main transmitters but the rest of the game has changed with these mast extensions.

http://www.etenders.gov.ie/search/show/search_view.aspx?ID=SEP129048

SECTION II: OBJECT OF THE CONTRACT
II.1) DESCRIPTION
II.1.1) Title attributed to the contract by the contracting authority:
Broadcast Mast/Structure Replacements/Antennas.
II.1.2) Type of contract and location of works, place of delivery or of
performance: Supplies.
Purchase.
Main place of delivery: Maghera, Co Clare and Mt Leinster, Co Carlow.
NUTS code: IE0.
II.1.3) The notice involves: A public contract.
II.1.5) Short description of the contract or purchase(s): RTENL, a wholly
owned subsidiary of RTE, the Irish National Broadcaster, wishes to procure
Broadcast Mast / Structure/Antenna Replacements between 120 and 200 metres
in height capable of supporting various broadcast and receive antennae
systems at Maghera and Mt. Leinster in Ireland. Expressions of interest
are requested from companies who feel they have competencies in this area.

II.2) QUANTITY OR SCOPE OF THE CONTRACT
II.2.1) Total quantity or scope: Broadcast Mast / Structure/Antenna
Replacements between 120 and 200 meters in height capable of supporting
various broadcast and receive antennae systems at Maghera and Mt.
Leinster.
II.2.2) Options: No.
II.3) DURATION OF THE CONTRACT OR TIME-LIMIT FOR COMPLETION: Starting:
1.1.2010. Completion: 1.11.2012.
INFORMATION ABOUT LOTS
LOT NO 1
TITLE: Maghera
1) SHORT DESCRIPTION: Structure/Antenna Replacements between 120 and 200 metres in height capable of supporting various broadcast and receive
antennae systems at Maghera.
4) INDICATION ABOUT DIFFERENT DATE FOR DURATION OF CONTRACT OR
STARTING/COMPLETION: Starting: 1.1.2010. Completion: 1.11.2012.
LOT NO 2
TITLE: Mt Leinster
1) SHORT DESCRIPTION: Structure/Antenna Replacements between 120 and 200
metres in height capable of supporting various broadcast and receive
antennae systems at Mt Leinster.
4) INDICATION ABOUT DIFFERENT DATE FOR DURATION OF CONTRACT OR
STARTING/COMPLETION: Starting: 1.1.2010. Completion: 1.10.2013.

PyeContinental

Some people were saying during the week that some of the 4 RTE muxes were broadcasting blank services. When I checked on Friday evening though, I was still receiving the 5 RTE services from each of the channels 39, 42, 45, 49.

By the way, I noticed (on an LG LF7700 TV) that some muxes had the EPG station name as RTE1, but some had just RT1. This might be the reason that sometimes Media Center shows one and then the other and sometimes displays fadas ok and sometimes does not.

GiftGrub100

I assume all Freeview channels were available last night with Mount Leinster off air and RTENL no longer blocking the signals coming from Wales ?

hamo31

No, not so. I thought the same and tried. Mt Leinster was still transmitting a strong signal even though it had no picture content. Also, Channel 39 was showing a good strong signal but no RTE1, 2 etc on digital. Looks like Mt Leinster transmitter was functional but it wasn't receiving signals from RTE Dublin.
Hamo31

druss

hamo31 wrote: »

No, not so. I thought the same and tried. Mt Leinster was still transmitting a strong signal even though it had no picture content. Also, Channel 39 was showing a good strong signal but no RTE1, 2 etc on digital. Looks like Mt Leinster transmitter was functional but it wasn't receiving signals from RTE Dublin.
Hamo31

I tried the same thing. I miss having Dave on freeview.

mrdtv

They don't have a reliable distribution system which now must be a concern bigtime for OneVision. The DTT transmitters in Northern Scotland have not been knocked off the air by equally atrocious weather: this is because they have baseband fibre links and FTA satellite backup. Microwave links are notoriously prone to failure in icing conditions. Of course with FTA satellite backup there would be a) alternative distribution and b) alternative direct reception. This has ended up being the perfect commercial for Sky Digital with the 'no satellite signal being received'. In the US with DirecTv you have your dish at ground level so you can sweep it clear yourself, ditto Germany, Switzerland and Austria. It shows that to ensure system reliability on a par with the UK, US or EU countries a better distribution network is going to be needed. This has significant cost implications. Of course if RTE was either FTA or FTV via satellite viewers could have alternative non-pay options. Meantime the Mount Leinster muxes are continuing to waste power advertising Sky Digital...

mrdtv

Deleted repeat post

olliewexford

i only have a lab tec mpeg 2 freeveiw box, reception was bad even on bbc 1 on it this morning ,but i strangely got five us and fiver , got my hopes up for a second . done a fresh setup scan not one rte nl content came up radio or tv, used to just not video, but as was said there still broadcasting nil wind signal.

why did they alot presely and mt leinster similar broadcasting channels when it was been done does anyone know. is this normal practice and rte are been petty on it , and usually everyone work it out fairly , silly question but its been bugging me ??

The Cush

olliewexford wrote: »

why did they alot presely and mt leinster similar broadcasting channels when it was been done does anyone know. is this normal practice and rte are been petty on it , and usually everyone work it out fairly , silly question but its been bugging me ??

Here are some links to information I posted previously about frequency allocations.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63482487#post63482487
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63330193#post63330193
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63090864#post63090864
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=63081189#post63081189
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=59890026#post59890026

olliewexford

olliewexford wrote: »

i only have a lab tec mpeg 2 freeveiw box, reception was bad even on bbc 1 on it this morning ,but i strangely got five us and fiver , got my hopes up for a second . done a fresh setup scan not one rte nl content came up radio or tv, used to just not video, but as was said there still broadcasting nil wind signal.

why did they alot presely and mt leinster similar broadcasting channels when it was been done does anyone know. is this normal practice and rte are been petty on it , and usually everyone work it out fairly , silly question but its been bugging me ??

You need to sort out your aerial.
Reception on presely up here was perfect yesterday

As for RTENL's transmissions on presely channels-they are testing them mar dhea.
They read this forum anyway.