Kimi Raikkonen is taking a year off

zafira

According to reports in the Finnish media:

http://www.ts.fi/online/urheilu/89167.html

http://sidepodcast.com/2009/11/17/kimis-manager-says-no-mclaren-drive-for-raikkonen-next-year/

Kimi's Manager Says No F1 Drive for Räikkönen Next Year
Published 17/11/2009 at 21:38 GMTBy Mr. C

According to an article published in Turun Sanomat this evening, Kimi Räikkönen's Formula 1 career is over, at least for now.

Kimi's manager Steve Robertson told Turun Sanomat on Tuesday evening, from Macau, that the negotiation with McLaren ended without results. Robertson explained:

"The option for next season at a Formula 1 level was McLaren or nothing. Kimi and McLaren didn't reach an agreement, so he won't drive in F1 next year."

"The opportunity to return to Grand Prix competitions for season 2011 are there when there will be more interesting places available. At the moment it looks like that could be Red Bull."

Additionally Robertson went on to confirm:

"Kimi said before that he wants to race. A sabbatical doesn't change anything in that respect. More it means that Kimi can find a drive where he can fight for victories and World Championships"

"Next year Räikkönen will drive rallies and possibly the Le Mans 24 hours race, which both interest and excites the Finnish star a lot."

RayM

It's on Autosport now too.

I hope it won't be like Mika Häkkinen's "sabbatical".

vectra

RayM wrote: »

I hope it won't be like Mika Häkkinen's "sabbatical".

It will
No way can you take a year out of the speed of development on these cars and expect to come back and win.
Ah well
Now to support Adam carroll if he gets a seat

amacachi

GDamn it.

EvilMonkey

I was looking forward to Kimi and Hamilton in the same car.

RayM

vectra wrote: »

No way can you take a year out of the speed of development on these cars and expect to come back and win.

The cars are going to remain fundamentally the same for the next couple of years, so I don't think that'll pose any problem. Plus, Raikkonen ain't Badoer. When he entered F1 with Sauber in 2001, he had only participated in 23 car races, and he was up to speed pretty quickly.

Ghost Train

vectra wrote: »

It will
No way can you take a year out of the speed of development on these cars and expect to come back and win.

I don't think its the same really, he's four years younger and there are a few teams about that can win races, Mika had a pretty bad final year and McLaren had fallen behind Ferrari so less incentive for him to return

Pity to see one of the top driver sit it out for a year though, hope he does get back to it

zafira

best thing to do would be to see how Massa is when he comes back, he was out for half a season so if he comes back not as fast then you could expect kimi to be the same in a years time.

vectra

RayM wrote: »

Raikkonen ain't Badoer. When he entered F1 with Sauber in 2001, he had only participated in 23 car races, and he was up to speed pretty quickly.

Dont worry
I know Kimi like a book
He was younger then with less competition

zeris

If Kimi couldn't get the terms he wanted this year he will be in an even weaker position in 2011 to negotiate. After this failure I wonder if both Kimi and his management will correctly gauge the market next year.

Chopper888

Raikkonen is being paid a sum believed to be in the region of 20m Euro not to race for Ferrari in 2010. Its a nice wage to sit at home.

kaizersoze

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I was looking forward to Kimi and Hamilton in the same car.

That'd be a tight squeeze...unless the gave them a 2 seater...:p

Not surprised really. He priced himself out of a drive. I have a feeling we won't see him in F1 again.

Ghost Train

I wonder did Kimis contract with Ferrari prevent him from getting another drive without some sort of buy out of the contract. I.E. if Ferrari are still paying him they'd rather not have him as competition in another team.

JP Liz

Former world champion Kimi Raikkonen will not be racing in Formula 1 next year after failing to find a drive.
The 30-year-old Finn had been trying to do a deal with McLaren but they would not offer him the salary he wanted, his manager David Robertson told BBC Sport.
"They couldn't afford him," Roberston said. "It wasn't in his interests to race for what they were offering so he's going to go rallying instead."
Robertson said he believed McLaren had already signed Jenson Button.
Raikkonen is trying to find a drive in the world rally championship, Roberston said, although nothing had yet been sorted out.
He made his world rally debut on his home Rally Finland last August, setting competitive times before crashing out.
"He wants to be back in F1 in 2011 but with all the money he has earned he doesn't want to go in a medium-type team for money," Robertson said.
"The same criteria would apply as this year - he'd only go where he feels he has a chance of the world championship."
Asked whether Button's appearance on the market had wrecked Raikkonen's hopes at McLaren, Roberston said: "If they hadn't gone for Jenson, they'd have gone for someone else."
Raikkonen, who won the world title for Ferrari in 2007, was forced out of Ferrari at the end of this season to make way for Fernando Alonso, despite already having a year left on his contract.
Raikkonen is being paid a sum believed to be in the region of 20m Euro not to race for Ferrari in 2010, but still wanted to be paid what he felt was a fair sum to drive for another team.
Robertson would not confirm the Ferrari payment, describing his arrangements with Ferrari as "confidential".
Although he won the Belgian Grand Prix, Raikkonen's final season with Ferrari was a disappointment, with car that was never the fastest in the field.
He said: "Kimi wanted a winning car, only McLaren could supply that and he only had them in his sights. He didn't want another year like this one.
"But they had their issues with Mercedes, Santander and the FIA and from a financial point of view they are not the powerhouse they were. They couldn't afford him."
Mercedes announced on Tuesday that they were selling back their 40% shareholding in McLaren and buying the Brawn team instead.
Spanish bank Santander will sponsor Ferrari next year, although they will still retain a smaller presence with McLaren.
And governing body the FIA in 2007 fined McLaren $100m (then £49m) after they were found guilty of possessing confidential Ferrari technical information.
A McLaren spokesman refused to comment on Robertson's remarks.

vectra

Ghost Train wrote: »

I wonder did Kimis contract with Ferrari prevent him from getting another drive without some sort of buy out of the contract. I.E. if Ferrari are still paying him they'd rather not have him as competition in another team.

Those are exactly my thoughts.
Ferrari made it almost impossible for him to drive for any other team
Why?
Well
These are my reasonings

1) They know they should have kept him. after the way he drove the F60 to 4th in the constructors.

2) They looked idiotic paying him 17 million to leave.

3) Imagine how foolish and embarresing it would be for Kimi to get a drive in a top team and wipe Ferrari to the floor ..!! >> Priceless

enzo7

Apparently the only clause as someone mentioned on another thread is if he got another seat for nxt season he would only get £10 mil from ferrari instead of the agreed £17 , so unless he was getting a deal worth £8mil from maclaren it wasnt worth his while racing, apparently he was only offered £6 mil. Tbh i think ferrari were hopeing he would get a seat save them £7 mil. Yes kimi had a fantastic last few races and im sure there is no one at ferrari who didnt think he was capable of those performances but i think if you weighed all up ferrari hav def made the right decision because in alonso and massa they hav 2 fantastic drivers who certinaly wouldnt fear kimi in any car. lets face it he if he had got d maclaren drive he would be too pre-occupied trying to keep up with hamiltion to seriously worry ferrari. They did sack him for a very good reason.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

Apparently the only clause as someone mentioned on another thread is if he got another seat for nxt season he would only get £10 mil from ferrari instead of the agreed £17 , so unless he was getting a deal worth £8mil from maclaren it wasnt worth his while racing, apparently he was only offered £6 mil. Tbh i think ferrari were hopeing he would get a seat save them £7 mil. Yes kimi had a fantastic last few races and im sure there is no one at ferrari who didnt think he was capable of those performances but i think if you weighed all up ferrari hav def made the right decision because in alonso and massa they hav 2 fantastic drivers who certinaly wouldnt fear kimi in any car. lets face it he if he had got d maclaren drive he would be too pre-occupied trying to keep up with hamiltion to seriously worry ferrari. They did sack him for a very good reason.

You are looking at it in the total opposite way that you should be.

Ferrari knew damn well he wouldnt get a deal off any team to surpass the £17 mil. This is my point.. they feared that he would get a drive and destroy their plot.
As for kimi fearing Hamilton. :rolleyes: Dream on.

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

You are looking at it in the total opposite way that you should be.

Ferrari knew damn well he wouldnt get a deal off any team to surpass the £17 mil. This is my point.. they feared that he would get a drive and destroy their plot.
As for kimi fearing Hamilton. :rolleyes: Dream on.

You prob right ferrari prob knew dame well he wouldnt get £8 mil+ from another team because unfortunately they know kimi only too well!!!! and dat his not worth more. They were so desprate to get rid of him they were willing to pay £17 mil to do so , that really sums up the state of his reputation. Ya ferrari really sound like a team who fear him .It doesnt really matter now as its bye bye kimi id like to hav said it was a pleasure but.....

Ghost Train

Those sort of figures make sense... Maybe they got a good deal on Alonso and they didn't feel they could wait another year. I suppose its not going to matter much about the driver next year if they don't get the car right. They really went the opposite way to McLaren by developing early for next year, will be interesting to see if it pays off

Top Dog

JP Liz wrote: »

The 30-year-old Finn had been trying to do a deal with McLaren but they would not offer him the salary he wanted, his manager David Robertson told BBC Sport.
"They couldn't afford him," Roberston said. "It wasn't in his interests to race for what they were offering so he's going to go rallying instead."

Huge difference between not paying a silly amount and not being able to afford him. I'd be thinking that McLaren simply wouldn't meet his pay demands would be the more likely of the 2 senario's.

zafira

Rumours saying Kimi has signed with Mercades:


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgloboesporte.globo.com%2FEsportes%2FNoticias%2FFormula_1%2F0%2C%2CMUL1384006-15011%2C00-MERCEDES%2BACERTA%2BCOM%2BKIMI%2BRAIKKONEN.html&sl=auto&tl=en

Frank Bullitt

zafira wrote: »

Rumours saying Kimi has signed with Mercades:


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgloboesporte.globo.com%2FEsportes%2FNoticias%2FFormula_1%2F0%2C%2CMUL1384006-15011%2C00-MERCEDES%2BACERTA%2BCOM%2BKIMI%2BRAIKKONEN.html&sl=auto&tl=en

His managers have said that he is focusing on Rallying though?

vectra

zafira wrote: »

Rumours saying Kimi has signed with Mercades:


http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fgloboesporte.globo.com%2FEsportes%2FNoticias%2FFormula_1%2F0%2C%2CMUL1384006-15011%2C00-MERCEDES%2BACERTA%2BCOM%2BKIMI%2BRAIKKONEN.html&sl=auto&tl=en

That thought had occured to me

Robbo

Let's be honest here, who wouldn't take $17 million to spend a year drinking, enjoying the company of your beauty queen missus and rallying?

I wonder how contractually restricted he is in terms of what he can rally? There was some rumours of a C4 WRC earlier.

EvilMonkey

Robbo wrote: »

I wonder how contractually restricted he is in terms of what he can rally? There was some rumours of a C4 WRC earlier.

Well Red Bull are one of his personal sponsors!

Slutmonkey57b

zafira wrote: »

From James allens twitter: Jamesallenonf1: Media voices around the world suggest Raikkonen in talks with Mercedes about dramatic comeback. Is it real or urban myth?

If it's real then it's a sign that Merc just realised they ****ed up massively.
Frankly it's shades of John Howett and his "Well we're looking at Kubica and Kimi" desperate clutching of straws. Kimi doesn't mince about or play games, he'll go rallying.

vectra

zafira wrote: »

From James allens twitter: Jamesallenonf1: Media voices around the world suggest Raikkonen in talks with Mercedes about dramatic comeback. Is it real or urban myth?

Now where did I see this exact post earlier tonight :rolleyes::D

Oblomov

However, in the wake of Button’s departure, Mercedes GP are also understood to be in discussions with Kimi Raikkonen’s management.

zafira

vectra wrote: »

Now where did I see this exact post earlier tonight :rolleyes::D

on twitter????

vectra

zafira wrote: »

on twitter????

Nope

Raikkonen would consider Mercedes

Kimi Raikkonen would be willing to consider a race seat at Mercedes Grand Prix next season - but only if the team could convince him it will be good enough to fight for race wins and the world championship.

Full story on >> Autosport

Maybe we will still have Kimi next season after all :cool:

zafira

vectra wrote: »

Nope

you tell me? :D

vectra

zafira wrote: »

you tell me? :D

PM sent

Ghost Train

vectra wrote: »

Nope

Raikkonen would consider Mercedes

Kimi Raikkonen would be willing to consider a race seat at Mercedes Grand Prix next season - but only if the team could convince him it will be good enough to fight for race wins and the world championship.

Full story on >> Autosport

Maybe we will still have Kimi next season after all :cool:

Mercedes would be silly not to consider Kimi if they want a shot at the championship next season, equally Kimi would be silly not to consider them as capable of race wins. I think its more about money than Kimi lets on.

Maybe Kimi and his manager didn't see the Mercedes deal coming and are now backtracking because they know Mercedes have enough money.

Mercedes would have to view Kimi as a risk given the past year... might be risk worth taking till they can make a move for Vettel or similar driver

vectra

Ghost Train wrote: »

Mercedes would have to view Kimi as a risk given the past year... might be risk worth taking till they can make a move for Vettel or similar driver

Why??

enzo7

I think it laughable kimis reps are saying dat mercedes hav to prov they are a winning team ect maybe they dont hav the saying in finland "beggers cant be choosers":D

But seriously mercedes would be taking a massive risk taking him on but if they got him cheap say £7 mil and offered him points bonous they could be laughing coz it obvious his only motivation is money! They would be crazy to touch him otherwise.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

I think it laughable kimis reps are saying dat mercedes hav to prov they are a winning team ect maybe they dont hav the saying in finland "beggers cant be choosers":D

But seriously mercedes would be taking a massive risk taking him on but if they got him cheap say £7 mil and offered him points bonous they could be laughing coz it obvious his only motivation is money! They would be crazy to touch him otherwise.

Well Kimi did ask a reporter one time "How can you be motivated toddling around at the back in a non competitive car"?

That is fine for Rookies but for somone with Kimi's capabilities then it can be soul destroying.
I think Merc should jump at the chance.

Ghost Train

vectra wrote: »

Why??

Being dropped by Ferrari mid contract mainly, also him wanting to try Rallying might indicate a waning in his commitment to F1. Seems to be how some of the press reported it.

He didn't have the best seasons by his standards, I would say this is down to the car but could be perceived by the hiring team as Kimi not being motivated enough.

Don't think there is anyone better available to Mercedes than Kimi if they have the money... Heidfeld might be worth a punt as a solid driver but Kimi is proven winner

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Well Kimi did ask a reporter one time "How can you be motivated toddling around at the back in a non competitive car"?

That is fine for Rookies but for somone with Kimi's capabilities then it can be soul destroying.
I think Merc should jump at the chance.

What capabilities???? The guy can only win if his in the best car, you hav said that youself countless times!!jenson button can do that!!!. His world championship was hardly a crowing glory either he fumbled upon it because the 2 twits in maclaren were too busy poping shots at his each other. The only thing soul destroying in kimis world is mclaren thought he was worth only £6 mil. Unless mercedes can gurantee they hav a car thats the class of the field there isnt a hope they will see kimi on the top step nxt yr. They would be insane to take him on otherwise, there far better off with heidfeld because with him you can gurantee if the car isnt perfect he wont dissapear till aug (when he needs a new contract).

thegoth

vectra wrote: »

Why??

Because Kimi has been beaten by a team mate who is A) On a fraction of his Salary and Was a good bit off Michael Schmuachers pace

EvilMonkey

thegoth wrote: »

Because Kimi has been beaten by a team mate who is A) On a fraction of his Salary and Was a good bit off Michael Schmuachers pace

I seem to remember Massa beating Schumacher on a few occasions and i don't think he was too far off his pace even if he was it hardly makes him a bad driver.
Kimi bet Massa in 07, Massa bet Kimi in 08 and 09 is inconclusive, Massa had the upper hand at the start but who can say what would have happened. Kimi certainly was one of the best drivers in the second half of 09.

frostie500

enzo7 wrote: »

What capabilities???? The guy can only win if his in the best car, you hav said that youself countless times!!jenson button can do that!!!. His world championship was hardly a crowing glory either he fumbled upon it because the 2 twits in maclaren were too busy poping shots at his each other. The only thing soul destroying in kimis world is mclaren thought he was worth only £6 mil. Unless mercedes can gurantee they hav a car thats the class of the field there isnt a hope they will see kimi on the top step nxt yr. They would be insane to take him on otherwise, there far better off with heidfeld because with him you can gurantee if the car isnt perfect he wont dissapear till aug (when he needs a new contract).

Enzo when did you start to watch F1? From when Kimi got into the sport he showed consistently that he had the speed and ability to win grand prix. Do you think that the McLaren's he drove were the class of the field? He contended for two world titles with the team, in patheticallty unreliable cars at times, before moving to Ferrari and while he did need on Hamilton and Alonso making mistakes at the end of the season he still won the final two races to take the title as well as taking 50 points from the last six races.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

What capabilities???? The guy can only win if his in the best car,.

Please show us a driver than can win a championship with a bad car

thegoth wrote: »

Because Kimi has been beaten by a team mate who is A) On a fraction of his Salary and Was a good bit off Michael Schmuachers pace

Massa beat schumacher a few times as did Barrichello
what are you on about?
Nobody is unbeatable at some stage.
He is on a fraction of his salary fora good reason.
There is a big difference between a wdc and a Nearly WDC.. Ask Coulthard.:rolleyes:

EvilMonkey wrote: »

I seem to remember Massa beating Schumacher on a few occasions and i don't think he was too far off his pace even if he was it hardly makes him a bad driver.
Kimi bet Massa in 07, Massa bet Kimi in 08 and 09 is inconclusive, Massa had the upper hand at the start but who can say what would have happened. Kimi certainly was one of the best drivers in the second half of 09.

There you go

Frank Bullitt

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091119122717.shtml

Kimi fans shouldnt get their hopes up just yet.

EvilMonkey

Gintonious wrote: »

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/091119122717.shtml

Kimi fans shouldnt get their hopes up just yet.

No hopes up he said McLaren was his only option, it wont happen.
His manager wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't call in though and make a few enquires though.

Frank Bullitt

EvilMonkey wrote: »

No hopes up he said McLaren was his only option, it wont happen.
His manager wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't call in though and make a few enquires though.

I really want him on the grid myself,its a shame that he might not be there,cause when he is on it he is really on it,but,and its a big huge but,he is one lazy git.

enzo7

frostie500 wrote: »

Enzo when did you start to watch F1? From when Kimi got into the sport he showed consistently that he had the speed and ability to win grand prix. Do you think that the McLaren's he drove were the class of the field? He contended for two world titles with the team, in patheticallty unreliable cars at times, before moving to Ferrari and while he did need on Hamilton and Alonso making mistakes at the end of the season he still won the final two races to take the title as well as taking 50 points from the last six races.

silverstone 87 my first g.p, my comment in the last post were directed to vectra, im just trying to understand his views thats all, he was the one who said kimi can only win in the best car (when i say win i mean titles any of them could win a race in the best car). Were not talking about the kimi of 3/4 yrs ago if we were he would hav walked into that mclaren seat and button wouldnt hav bn in the running. But kimis stock has dropped big time since his pre ferrari days and even the most die hard kimi fan has to admit that. As ive said in a previous post living off your past glorys doesnt gurantee you a top driver or in kimis case any drive. And ive also said in a previous post i think if mercedes can get kimi cheap on a points bonous contract they could be laughing otherwise there crazy to touch him! having said that i think kimi is capable of winning in an average car if the money is right of cource!!! because taking his team to the top doesnt motivate him, trying to beat his teammate doesnt motivate him, but id bet anything a points bonus at the end of every g.p. would!! And for the record id luv to see the old kimi again.

frostie500

enzo7 wrote: »

silverstone 87 my first g.p, my comment in the last post were directed to vectra, im just trying to understand his views thats all, he was the one who said kimi can only win in the best car (when i say win i mean titles any of them could win a race in the best car). Were not talking about the kimi of 3/4 yrs ago if we were he would hav walked into that mclaren seat and button wouldnt hav bn in the running. But kimis stock has dropped big time since his pre ferrari days and even the most die hard kimi fan has to admit that. As ive said in a previous post living off your past glorys doesnt gurantee you a top driver or in kimis case any drive. And ive also said in a previous post i think if mercedes can get kimi cheap on a points bonous contract they could be laughing otherwise there crazy to touch him! having said that i think kimi is capable of winning in an average car if the money is right of cource!!! because taking his team to the top doesnt motivate him, trying to beat his teammate doesnt motivate him, but id bet anything a points bonus at the end of every g.p. would!! And for the record id luv to see the old kimi again.

Thats grand, thanks for clarifying that for me, its just the post that I was replying to didnt imply some of the above.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

silverstone 87 my first g.p, my comment in the last post were directed to vectra, im just trying to understand his views thats all, he was the one who said kimi can only win in the best car (when i say win i mean titles any of them could win a race in the best car). Were not talking about the kimi of 3/4 yrs ago if we were he would hav walked into that mclaren seat and button wouldnt hav bn in the running. But kimis stock has dropped big time since his pre ferrari days and even the most die hard kimi fan has to admit that. As ive said in a previous post living off your past glorys doesnt gurantee you a top driver or in kimis case any drive. And ive also said in a previous post i think if mercedes can get kimi cheap on a points bonous contract they could be laughing otherwise there crazy to touch him! having said that i think kimi is capable of winning in an average car if the money is right of cource!!! because taking his team to the top doesnt motivate him, trying to beat his teammate doesnt motivate him, but id bet anything a points bonus at the end of every g.p. would!! And for the record id luv to see the old kimi again.

Well to be fair about it.
Kimi won the wdc in 2007..
He didnt have such a good run in2008.. if the mighty Massa is so good then why did he not become wdc in 2008? Simple.. He made too many mistakes and looked like a glorified rookie at some tracks..
2009...!!!
F60.. are you really going to blame Kimi for that?
If so. Maybe you should watch something other than F1..
Nobody in their right mind could blame a driver for bad results in that bucket..
So.
for a slump of one year Kimi is doomed forever as far as you are concerned?
Fair enough.
What i would say is this
Had Kimi been in the sister brawn car in 2009 I would put my life on it that he would be wdc this year as well and Button would be glad of a seat for next year.

But hey
Thats just me

enzo7

vectra wrote: »

Well to be fair about it.
Kimi won the wdc in 2007..
He didnt have such a good run in2008.. if the mighty Massa is so good then why did he not become wdc in 2008? Simple.. He made too many mistakes and looked like a glorified rookie at some tracks..
2009...!!!
F60.. are you really going to blame Kimi for that?
If so. Maybe you should watch something other than F1..
Nobody in their right mind could blame a driver for bad results in that bucket..
So.
for a slump of one year Kimi is doomed forever as far as you are concerned?
Fair enough.
What i would say is this
Had Kimi been in the sister brawn car in 2009 I would put my life on it that he would be wdc this year as well and Button would be glad of a seat for next year.

But hey
Thats just me

:D:D:D im really going to miss these arguments nxt yr.

well the glorified rookie as you called him still managed to whip your golden boy that season, and the glorified rookie has a top line seat nxy year and is been payed for the privelage and the glorified rookies career isnt in tatters

Im not even going to waste my time argueing with you over your kimi/button/brawn 09 claim because it really doesnt matter coz button is world champion and has a top line seat nxt season (doe his in for a hamilton whipping) and kimi doesnt. bye bye kimi...

Top Dog

Ghost Train wrote: »

Mercedes would be silly not to consider Kimi if they want a shot at the championship next season, equally Kimi would be silly not to consider them as capable of race wins. I think its more about money than Kimi lets on.

The new Mercedes team might not be allowed to consider getting Kimi on board at the sort of money he'd want. There's enough ruffled feathers on the supervisory board of the parent company Daimler, so I can't see them ok'ing some silly salary to get Kimi in the seat.

vectra

enzo7 wrote: »

:D:D:D im really going to miss these arguments nxt yr.

well the glorified rookie as you called him still managed to whip your golden boy that season, and the glorified rookie has a top line seat nxy year and is been payed for the privelage and the glorified rookies career isnt in tatters

Im not even going to waste my time argueing with you over your kimi/button/brawn 09 claim because it really doesnt matter coz button is world champion and has a top line seat nxt season (doe his in for a hamilton whipping) and kimi doesnt. bye bye kimi...

Well bud.
You can Pump up Massa as much as you like but he is still a "Nearly"
Kimi has one crown to his name.
You think Massa is going to get the better of Alonso?
:rolleyes: