Toppling the Irish State (theory)

newklear

Thoughts just sprung to mind of what if an armed uprising were able to seize control of the country and topple the Irish state, replacing it with a new state of the popular people's wish.

Now I know there isn't that many of us Irish people on this tiny island, but lets say in theory 3.5 million of us lived in an state that we didn't like. The other 0.5 million lets say were made up of the hardcore Irish staters, such as the president and her government subordinates.

Then we have the army and the guards who are there to protect the state itself for such an internal threat.

Aim: To oust the Irish state along with its army and replace it with a new system, lets call it "The new Irish State".

How:

1st: Weapons would need to be acquired. These would be distributed evenly across the communities of the country in total secret.

2nd: The co-ordinated ambush and seizure of all Irish military installations, from bases, ports, airfields, etc. Lock down of all state military personnel into compounds, such as the curragh.

3rd: Seizure of all garda stations and lock down of garda personnel.

With these 3 phases complete, everything else falls into place. The government is dissolved and a new constitution is established, which will be presented to all captured state personnel.

In THEORY this is how it should work.

Obviously if something like this were ever to be actually implemented, it would need more than a vague idea put up on boards.

Local-womanizer

Saying you would take the Military and Gardai barrack is a world of difference to actually doing it. For you to aquire arms would take alot of effort which would not go unnoticed.If you attacked one Barracks the rest would be waiting,all with high-tech gear and modern training. For it to work the Army and Gardai would need to be onside.

Anyway,its just easier to vote in a new goverment!

b12mearse

I would say it would be possible to topple the state after the budget. But my only concern in doing it would be the European Union. Considering the fact the new state isnt established democraticaly we may have some international problems and the new Federal Europe may not take lightly to it.

Donny5

b12mearse wrote: »

I would say it would be possible to topple the state after the budget. But my only concern in doing it would be the European Union. Considering the fact the new state isnt established democraticaly we may have some international problems and the new Federal Europe may not take lightly to it.

Neither would many of her citizens. If there was a majority in search of a new government, wouldn't they elect a new government?

Anyway, OP, here's a book that you should read.

Alkers

From personal experience it wouldn't take much to "take over" most barracks I've been in side. Around 10 armed guys who knew what to do and where to go and you'd be sorted

Mahatma coat

One would presume that elections had been Proposed by your side and denied by the incumbent government. if this was the case and 3.5 million of the 4 million people inthe country wanted change then there would really be no need to seize control of the Army, The Irish army is in theory an non political organisation whose primary function is the Defence of the PEOPLE of Ireland, so if you have an overwhelmin majority of those people demanding change then the Army probably wont give you much hassle, hell a lot of them will be on your side, think Thailand last year.

private2bcadet

Mahatma coat wrote: »

One would presume that elections had been Proposed by your side and denied by the incumbent government. if this was the case and 3.5 million of the 4 million people inthe country wanted change then there would really be no need to seize control of the Army, The Irish army is in theory an non political organisation whose primary function is the Defence of the PEOPLE of Ireland, so if you have an overwhelmin majority of those people demanding change then the Army probably wont give you much hassle, hell a lot of them will be on your side, think Thailand last year.

"to defend the STATE against all forms of armed aggression, internal or external"

im in the reserves, and even as a reservist and not a full time soldier, i can tell you, there is no way in hell you would get no hastle from the army.

major bill

dont forget under the legislation of the lisbon treaty if this attack was to happen on the state it could pave the way for foreign troops to be deployed here to squash it.

private2bcadet

i had written up a huge response explaining how the army and guards would destroy such an attempt. but then i realised you had said if 3.5 million supported it.

even with that amount of support. that kind of thing doesnt happen in the EU. im not totally sure, but in my opinion, the EU would intervine with force. the EU although an economic community is one big military alliance also. and its the irish state that is a member of the EU. if you tried to topple that state, you would be attacking an EU state,... even with the support of most of the nation, the irish defence forces would be able to hold of such a thing quite well for a while, and before you know it there'd be british troops coming over the border(with the present british government anyway), and the nordic battle group, which ireland is part of, which also includes norway and sweden etc would definitely intervine with force. you cant just attack a member of the EU, even from the inside, and not expect its corresponding battle group not to intervine.

now if this was to happen with a more realistic number of about 20% of population support (kinda the average in coup's), it would have no hope.. the garda siochana is actually an armed police force. its just the lads on the beat and the likes of the traffic corps that arnt armed. the rest are. you wouldnt just 'take' a garda station, maybe some of those little country prefabs but any of the normal stations in towns with a populus of about 8000 up youd have no hope! they literally would kill you. you also have to bear in mind, that a lot of stations now have the new armed response units (not to be confused with the ERU), who nearly always when in uniform are armed, to the teeth. and from what ive seen, they're just like soldiers in blue.

as for the army barracks/bases,... in every army barracks and base there is a thing we call the guard house. 24 hours a day there are armed/armoured soldiers, who are actually there to stop that kind of thing happening.

it just wouldnt be able to happen, in either your context where 3.5 mil support it, or in the realistic context

TheDuderino

What if we have a mutiny, say Finner Camp troops kick off a coup... people rally to them. Other units....

?

tac foley

major bill wrote: »

dont forget under the legislation of the lisbon treaty if this attack was to happen on the state it could pave the way for foreign troops to be deployed here to squash it.

If things got so out of hand that it was necessary to post other NATO troops to Ireland to calm things down, it probably would NOT include troops from the UK, who just might be seen as having a slightly different agenda as an occupying force, due to the unfortunate history connecting the two nations.

Instead, let's think about who you would get that -

1. is not - militarily speaking - overstretched for operational reasons.

2. has no historically-connected ax[e] to grind.

3. would not leave an easily-accomplished and lasting legacy of revenge and bad feeling, simply because they are coming from a LONG way away.....

4. be readily identifiable as not only different in appearance, but would not find it easy to mix in civilian company, and have a language that is difficult, if not totally unitelligible, to the average Irish citizen.

Let me introduce - THE TURKISH ARMY.

Lots of good things about them -

1. The Turkish Army is HUGE - the second largest in NATO after the US [around 402,000 active personel] - and it could easily occupy the RoI on a vast scale without even noticing.

2. They are cheap to keep - there are quite a few Doner Kebab houses in the RoI these days, and in any case, they only eat twice a day. Being moslems all your sausage and bacon farms would be quite safe from unwelcome attention.

3. They are 99.9999% Moslem of the kind that do not go around blowing themselves, or other innocent folks, to a thin wall-decorating paste like others of their pursuasion.

4. They are disciplined like very few other groups of people you have ever met in your lives - a unit commander who has NOT executed at least five soldiers in his two year tour is considered to be just too soft to promote.

Of course, there are a few downsides to all this -

1. they are truly ferocious, when annoyed, to the extent that each and every single one of them - females included - can easily make Mad Dan O'Mad, the very maddest of all the mad persons, look like Bo Peep.

2. they really DO shoot their own men. I was based in Eastern Turkey for a while with a unit that executed six of its own soldiers by firing squad for 'not being awake enough whilst carrying out the duties of a sentinel', including a pair of brothers. One of my former students, a captain at the time, actually shot dead the corporal of the guard platoon that was ten minutes late on post on the Iraq border.

3. the last time they were engaged in serious fighting was in the Korean War, where they earned the grudging respect of their North Korean captors [when on the very rare occasion they were taken PoW] by not only refusing to answer any questions, but by going on partial hunger strike and refusing to eat three meals a day and contempuously ignoring their daily beatings by the tactical questioners. This may have been due to a number of reasons -

a. a marked shortage of Korean-to-Turkish interpreters.

b. the fact that the Turks only got fed twice a day anyhow.

c. they got beaten TWICE a day by their own NCO's.

In fact, the RNK prison of war camp was pretty much a holiday for them, one said afterwards.

No, you really do not want the Turks in Ireland.....

tac

Donny5

tac foley wrote: »

4. They are disciplined like very few other groups of people you have ever met in your lives - a unit commander who has NOT executed at least five soldiers in his two year tour is considered to be just too soft to promote.

Do you have a source for this? I'm having difficulty finding anything out about this.

tac foley

Donny5 wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? I'm having difficulty finding anything out about this.

Only from the guy who was passed over as being 'too soft to promote'. He was stopped at major, sent away from his unit in a kind of disgrace to UK to do a bunch of courses for a few years to get him out of the way, and AFAIK, never went any further.

You are hardly going to see it published in An Cosantoir. But it was common knowledge a few years ago in units covering the Turkey/Iraq border. Remember that unlike many armed forces in NATO, the Turkish soldier is a conscript, not a volunteer.

And the 'Asker' - basic soldier in the Turkish Army - is not the same as the average Joe in your army.

tac

Donny5

tac foley wrote: »

Only from the guy who was passed over as being 'too soft to promote'. He was stopped at major, sent away from his unit in a kind of disgrace to UK to do a bunch of courses for a few years to get him out of the way, and AFAIK, never went any further.

That sounds a lot like hearsay to me. I'm not saying it's not true, but an anecdote is not a datum.

tac foley

Donny5 wrote: »

That sounds a lot like hearsay to me. I'm not saying it's not true, but an anecdote is not a datum.

You could be right.

YOU got any good stories?

tac

Morpheus

Where do i sign up for this Turkish army!?

Do they eat turkish delights?

TheDuderino

Morphéus wrote: »

Where do i sign up for this Turkish army!?

Do they eat turkish delights?

Nahh they'd just call it "Delights"

The french hardly call it french kissing now do they!?!

Morpheus

The French?

Pesky cheese eating surrender monkies!

BrianD

newklear wrote: »

Thoughts just sprung to mind of what if an armed uprising were able to seize control of the country and topple the Irish state, replacing it with a new state of the popular people's wish.

Now I know there isn't that many of us Irish people on this tiny island, but lets say in theory 3.5 million of us lived in an state that we didn't like. The other 0.5 million lets say were made up of the hardcore Irish staters, such as the president and her government subordinates.

Then we have the army and the guards who are there to protect the state itself for such an internal threat.

Aim: To oust the Irish state along with its army and replace it with a new system, lets call it "The new Irish State".

How:

1st: Weapons would need to be acquired. These would be distributed evenly across the communities of the country in total secret.

2nd: The co-ordinated ambush and seizure of all Irish military installations, from bases, ports, airfields, etc. Lock down of all state military personnel into compounds, such as the curragh.

3rd: Seizure of all garda stations and lock down of garda personnel.

With these 3 phases complete, everything else falls into place. The government is dissolved and a new constitution is established, which will be presented to all captured state personnel.

In THEORY this is how it should work.

Obviously if something like this were ever to be actually implemented, it would need more than a vague idea put up on boards.

Why would you even bother when we live in a constitutional democracy with local and national government elections at 5 year intervals at most?

Given that a large portion of Irish citizens can't be bothered to go mark a ballot paper, I doubt if you'd find much demand for a co-ordinated armed insurrection. You'd probably spend more time agreeing minimum wages, benefits and overtime for your popular uprising. Don't do it on a Monday either as half of your Popular Front for the liberation of Ireland would probably ring in "sick".

HavingCrack

The OP is probably long gone at this stage but the Belgian Revolution against the Netherlands, the Communard Rebellion, Mussolini's rise to power, the Russian Revolution, the Spanish Civil War in the Republican zone etc are all examples of coup d'etats or varients of it that succeeded against a better armed millitary.

BrianD

HavingCrack wrote: »

The OP is probably long gone at this stage but the Belgian Revolution against the Netherlands, the Communard Rebellion, Mussolini's rise to power, the Russian Revolution, the Spanish Civil War in the Republican zone etc are all examples of coup d'etats or varients of it that succeeded against a better armed millitary.

Differen times, different needs. While nobody seems to be satisfied with the current state of affairs,there is no desire to descent into anarachy where all will be lost. It's the kind of situation where you neighbour who decides to take up arms also decides that he needs your house.

As I said, why bother with a coup d'etat when we live in a democracy. We are don't live a state of oppression. Generally, we all contributed to the bubble and the place we find ourselves in.

bouse23

if you were going to seize a military barracks a sunday afternoon would probably be the best time. in the irish military unlike many other countrys militaries personnel tend to live off barracks and commute to work just like ordinary workers. but even at their quietest there would still be 20 to 30 people on duty about 10 armed as well as off duty soldiers who live in the barracks. so you would need probably 50 or so armed people plus you would need a lot of explosives to get into the armoury and in an era of mobile phones you wouldnt have much time before word gets out . and reinforcements arrive

meathstevie

If in the OP's hypothetical scenario of more than 75% of the population demanding change no outside political/military intervention has happened yet I'd be very surprised.

If that kind of situation ever developed in a Western European country where a government is trying to hold on to power against the will of the overwhelming majority of the population you can be absolutely sure some form of EU intervention would happen. I expect refusing to recognise election results would be a trigger and indicator to the outside something is fundamentally wrong and action needs to be taken.

chucken1

Toppling the Irish State (theory)

Heres a theory..leave my state alone thank you, its unsteady enough without you toppling it! :mad:

chucken1

Morphéus wrote: »

The French?

Pesky cheese eating surrender monkies!

I hate that phrase. What should they have done??

And DO NOT FORGET THE RESISTANCE!

What are Irish right now?? What will they insult us with??

ReacherCreature

chucken1 wrote: »

I hate that phrase. What should they have done??

And DO NOT FORGET THE RESISTANCE!

What are Irish right now?? What will they insult us with??

There's several accounts related to French surrender and the like. One that sticks out for me is when the French were under a bombing raid during the German invasion and they refused to go up and counter the raid. The defeatist attitude they adopted in some cases, lives on through history.

meathstevie

chucken1 wrote: »

I hate that phrase. What should they have done??

And DO NOT FORGET THE RESISTANCE!

What are Irish right now?? What will they insult us with??

You mean in the spring of 1940 ? Apply their superior Renault tanks in the same way as the Germans applied their then inferior armour in a concentrated mass to smash through the broad thin French defences and concentrate on defending against Stuka bombers as well. But sure, hindsight is always 20/20 and the Nazi's had a couple of years perfectioning their "blitzkrieg" in Spain and with the invasion of Poland and once the French defences were breeched plugging them was nearly impossible. And also nobody was quite willing to repeat the slaughter of WWI where France lost about a quarter of it's male population of combattant age.

Humans eh!

chucken1 wrote: »

I hate that phrase. What should they have done??

And DO NOT FORGET THE RESISTANCE!

What are Irish right now?? What will they insult us with??

We seem to have surrendered our destiny to the money men of Europe.
And are offered free cheese by our government.
QED

chucken1

Humans eh! wrote: »

We seem to have surrendered our destiny to the money men of Europe.
And are offered free cheese by our government.
QED

Just the comment I was waiting for

So,my point being,that when we do something,we can earn the right to comment on what happened in France in WW2.

RMD

Considering various intelligence servies worldwide are continually trying to infilitrate and bust arms dealing rings, how do you plan on importing enough arms to take down 8,000 soldiers and 14,500 Gardai?

It's never going to happen, discuss hypothetical situations and plans all you want, even if you got the weapons nothing would happen. We are a naturally lazy nation of people, we all love to talk and bitch but nobody seems to want to stand up when it comes to being counted.

PatsytheNazi

Toppling the Irish State ? I would have thought Fianna Fail and their friends in Anglo Irish bank etc have already done that :mad: Indeed if I had my way I'd proscribe Fianna Fail as a criminal organization and intern half of them.

It should be pointed out that the interning of FF may not sound as far fetched as some might think. During the troubles it was the regular demad of many in FF and the rest of them FG, Labour against Sinn Fein or anyone who held Republican views. Indeed the very same FF introduced internment of Sinn Fein members several times in the 1930's, 40's, 50's into the 60's as a " threat to the stability and welfare of the state " and it turns out that the soldeirs of corruption, cronyism and incompetence were the biggest threat to Ireland than anyone :mad:

budguy

1st: Weapons would need to be acquired. These would be distributed evenly across the communities of the country in total secret. ans: the peolpe already have them thanks to the peoples socialist army ie. the ira. 2nd: The co-ordinated ambush and seizure of all Irish military installations, from bases, ports, airfields, etc. Lock down of all state military personnel into compounds, such as the curragh. ans:this would be to large an op to plan in secret besides if the people rose the army would follow. 3rd: Seizure of all garda stations and lock down of garda personnel. there dumb scum waste of time worrieing about them without there survailance cameras on every street they are nothing but a bunch of stupid quisling traitors. however this is erelavent vecouse if the people where to rise to form a peoples republic then they would want the fascist european union out as they have already stated referendum and referendum again therefor thay would call us terorists or something and set about distroying us first economicaly and then if that didint work militarily untill the cowards amongst us betrayed the rest of us as has happened tim and time again throughout our history! actualy forget my answer to 3. cos thats wher the garda scum would come in

laoch na mona

weapons would be the biggest problem but if three quarters of the population supported it there would be some in the army and guards who would you could always in filtrate a barracks and acquire weapons that way or sneak them in from america

mattjack

budguy wrote: »

1st: Weapons would need to be acquired. These would be distributed evenly across the communities of the country in total secret. ans: the peolpe already have them thanks to the peoples socialist army ie. the ira. 2nd: The co-ordinated ambush and seizure of all Irish military installations, from bases, ports, airfields, etc. Lock down of all state military personnel into compounds, such as the curragh. ans:this would be to large an op to plan in secret besides if the people rose the army would follow. 3rd: Seizure of all garda stations and lock down of garda personnel. there dumb scum waste of time worrieing about them without there survailance cameras on every street they are nothing but a bunch of stupid quisling traitors. however this is erelavent vecouse if the people where to rise to form a peoples republic then they would want the fascist european union out as they have already stated referendum and referendum again therefor thay would call us terorists or something and set about distroying us first economicaly and then if that didint work militarily untill the cowards amongst us betrayed the rest of us as has happened tim and time again throughout our history! actualy forget my answer to 3. cos thats wher the garda scum would come in

We could also blind them with a lack of paragraphs.....MY EYES,MY EY_______

AllthingsCP

Mahatma coat wrote: »

One would presume that elections had been Proposed by your side and denied by the incumbent government. if this was the case and 3.5 million of the 4 million people inthe country wanted change then there would really be no need to seize control of the Army, The Irish army is in theory an non political organisation whose primary function is the Defence of the PEOPLE of Ireland, so if you have an overwhelmin majority of those people demanding change then the Army probably wont give you much hassle, hell a lot of them will be on your side, think Thailand last year.

Irish Defence Force defends the constitution if the Government or the people threaten the constitution the Defence Force must act against this, But saying that the Irish Defence Force could not contain an uprising in Ireland even if it only contain 10 percent of the population, Bloody hell in the 80's 90's the IRA could have seize power if they really wanted to, The UK or the European Union could intervene, But i honestly could not see USA getting involved if it what the people wanted.

The Blue-shirts had their chance in the 40's but tipped off to Spain to make a show of themselves!.

Best to have a go at the Army barracks after 3.30pm most are gone home at this stage only 10-18 left

AllthingsCP

budguy wrote: »

1st: Weapons would need to be acquired. These would be distributed evenly across the communities of the country in total secret. ans: the peolpe already have them thanks to the peoples socialist army ie. the ira. 2nd: The co-ordinated ambush and seizure of all Irish military installations, from bases, ports, airfields, etc. Lock down of all state military personnel into compounds, such as the curragh. ans:this would be to large an op to plan in secret besides if the people rose the army would follow. 3rd: Seizure of all garda stations and lock down of garda personnel. there dumb scum waste of time worrieing about them without there survailance cameras on every street they are nothing but a bunch of stupid quisling traitors. however this is erelavent vecouse if the people where to rise to form a peoples republic then they would want the fascist european union out as they have already stated referendum and referendum again therefor thay would call us terorists or something and set about distroying us first economicaly and then if that didint work militarily untill the cowards amongst us betrayed the rest of us as has happened tim and time again throughout our history! actualy forget my answer to 3. cos thats wher the garda scum would come in

Emm ok

Markcheese

For a popular coup to succeed people are planning on storming lightly staffed barracks( at 3.30 Sunday afternoon or something)
I'm guessing this was supposed to be a popular coup ? 70 to 80 % of the population.... Do you not think our dastardly government would have gotten wise to increasing civil unrest and upped security.... And intelligence gathering....
So you need a small group of dedicated ruthless people to organise and execute this coup...
This type of person is usually known as a bastard .... We've had plenty of these cocking up our state for years....

AllthingsCP

Markcheese wrote: »

For a popular coup to succeed people are planning on storming lightly staffed barracks( at 3.30 Sunday afternoon or something)
I'm guessing this was supposed to be a popular coup ? 70 to 80 % of the population.... Do you not think our dastardly government would have gotten wise to increasing civil unrest and upped security.... And intelligence gathering....
So you need a small group of dedicated ruthless people to organise and execute this coup...
This type of person is usually known as a bastard .... We've had plenty of these cocking up our state for years....

Permanent Defence Force could not maintain all the Military installation in Ireland and maintain peace on the streets manpower would not stretch that far, Best they could do is impose marshal law and lock down the city's, 8,000 soldiers would not go that far the Police Force would have to be armed but the state would not have the weapons or time to train them, Desertion would be high trained soldiers would fight against the government the provost guard would not be able to defend government building and the current government could fall in less then a week.

thebigfella1

impossible to plan to the required standard without intellignece leaks, resulting in DF and garda prep including ARW and ERU ambushes and snatches.

During the worst of british atrocities in the North 1 in 9 IRA men were informants and thats just what brits admit as it suits them at the minute. The Irish have always had loose tounguesit has been our undoing for centuries.

Easier to get the president to disolve the dail and vote in who you want. Then army and guards are yours anyway.

thebigfella1

bloody sunday. SAS assaination, shoot to kill policies...... shall I go on?

Markcheese

Wow , you've a bit of time on yr hands there....

enda1

Why not just have a plebiscite? I mean if a "popular uprising" were to be formed, would it not be easier to do without the bloodshed and economic disaster that would ensue?

Jawgap

enda1 wrote: »

Why not just have a plebiscite? I mean if a "popular uprising" were to be formed, would it not be easier to do without the bloodshed and economic disaster that would ensue?

I think that would amount to simply toppling the government - and thankfully it's something the last election showed us we could do without causing the bloodshed or the economic or social upheaval that sometimes goes with such dramatic changes.

Toppling the state would refer to subverting the existing institutions and replacing them (and the constitution) with something else in a very short period.

I think you could argue that we are 'toppling the state' given the succession of referendums we've been putting through - and I think we can be justifiably proud that we're doing it in a reasonably mature fashion without knocking the heads of one another in the streets. Whether the changes themselves are of a quality we need is a matter for another discussion though.

AllthingsCP

tac foley wrote: »

This is a list of notable bombings related to the Northern Ireland "Troubles" and their aftermath. It includes bombings that took place in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain since 1969. There were at least 10,000 bomb attacks during the conflict (1969–1998).[1]

1971[edit source | edit]4 December McGurk's Bar bombing - 15 civilians were killed and 17 injured by a Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) bomb in Belfast.[2]
1972[edit source | edit]22 February Aldershot bombing - seven people were killed by an Official IRA bomb at Aldershot Barracks in England. It was thought to be in retaliation for Bloody Sunday. Six of those killed were female ancillary workers and the seventh was a Roman Catholic padre.[3]
4 March A bomb exploded without warning in the Abercorn restaurant on Castle Lane in Belfast. Two were killed and 130 injured.
14 April The Provisional Irish Republican Army (Provisional IRA) exploded 24 bombs in towns and cities across Northern Ireland. There was also 14 shootouts between the IRA and security forces.
21 July Bloody Friday - within the space of 75 minutes, the Provisional IRA exploded 22 bombs in Belfast. Nine people were killed (including two British soldiers and one UDA member) while 130 were injured.[4]
31 July Claudy bombing - nine civilians were killed by a car bomb in Claudy, County Londonderry. No group has since claimed responsibility.[5]
1 December Two civilians were killed and 127 injured by two Loyalist car bombs in Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
1973[edit source | edit]11 May A RUC officer, John Kirkpatrick, was seriously injured by a car bomb which detonated as he attempted to start his TVR 1600M outside of 79 Eglantine Avenue in Belfast.[6][7][8]
17 May Five British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA (PIRA) bomb in Omagh, County Tyrone.
12 June Six Protestant civilians were killed by a Provisional IRA (PIRA) bomb in Coleraine, County Antrim. The warning given prior to the explosion had been inadequate.
1974[edit source | edit]4 February M62 coach bombing - 12 people were killed by an IRA bomb planted on a coach carrying British soldiers and their families.[9]
2 May Six Catholic civilians were killed and 18 injured by a UVF bomb at a bar in Belfast.
17 May Dublin and Monaghan bombings - the Ulster Volunteer Force exploded four bombs (three in Dublin, one in Monaghan) in the Republic of Ireland. They killed 33 civilians including a pregnant woman.[10]
17 June The Provisional IRA bombed the Houses of Parliament in London, injuring 11 people and causing extensive damage.[11]
5 October Guildford pub bombings - Four soldiers and one civilian were killed by PIRA bombs at two pubs in Guildford, England.[12]
21 November Birmingham pub bombings - 21 civilians were killed by PIRA bombs at pubs in Birmingham, England.[13]
22 December The Provisional IRA announced a Christmas ceasefire. Prior to ceasefire, they carried out a bomb attack on the home of former Prime Minister Edward Heath. Mr Heath was not in the building at the time and no one was injured.[14]
1975[edit source | edit]17 July Four British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb near Forkhill, County Armagh. The attack was the first major breach of the February truce.
5 September Two killed and 63 injured when a bomb was detonated in the lobby of London's Hilton Hotel.[15]
1976[edit source | edit]15 May Five Catholic civilians were killed and many injured by two Ulster Volunteer Force bomb attacks in Belfast and Charlemont, County Armagh.
21 July Christopher Ewart Biggs, the British Ambassador to Ireland, and his secretary Judith Cook, were assassinated by a bomb planted in Mr. Biggs’ car in Dublin.[16]
1978[edit source | edit]17 February La Mon restaurant bombing - 12 civilians were killed and 30 injured by a Provisional IRA incendiary bomb at the La Mon Restaurant near Belfast.
21 September The Provisional IRA exploded bombs at the RAF airfield near Eglinton, County Londonderry. The terminal building, two aircraft hangars and four planes were destroyed.
14–19 November The Provisional IRA exploded over 50 bombs in towns across Northern Ireland, injuring 37 people. Belfast, Derry, Armagh, Castlederg, Cookstown and Enniskillen were hardest hit.
1979[edit source | edit]22 March The Provisional IRA also exploded 24 bombs in various locations across Northern Ireland.
30 March Airey Neave, Conservative was assassinated . A bomb exploded in his car as he left the Palace of Westminster in London. The Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) later claimed responsibity for the assassination.[17]
17 April Four RUC officers were killed by a Provisional IRA van bomb in Bessbrook, County Armagh. The bomb was estimated at 1000 lb, the largest Provisional IRA bomb used up to that point.
27 August Warrenpoint ambush - 18 British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb in Warrenpoint. A gun battle ensued between the Provisional IRA and the British Army, in which one civilian was killed. On the same day, four people (including the Queen’s cousin Lord Louis Mountbatten) were killed by an IRA bomb on board a boat near the coast of County Sligo.[18][19]
16 December Four British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Dungannon, County Tyrone. Another British soldier was killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Forkhill, County Armagh.
1980[edit source | edit]17 January Dunmurry train explosion - a Provisional IRA bomb prematurely detonated on a passenger train near Belfast, killing three and injuring five civilians.
1982[edit source | edit]20 April The Provisional IRA exploded bombs in Belfast, Derry, Armagh, Ballymena, Bessbrook and Magherafelt. Two civilians were killed and 12 were injured.
20 July Hyde Park and Regents Park bombings - 11 British soldiers and seven military horses died in Provisional IRA bomb attacks on Regents Park and Hyde Park, London. Many spectators were badly injured.[20]
6 December Droppin Well bombing - 11 British soldiers and six civilians were killed by an Irish National Liberation Army (NLA) bomb at the Droppin’ Well Bar, County Londonderry.
1983[edit source | edit]13 July Four Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) soldiers were killed by a PIRA landmine in County Tyrone.
17 December Harrods bombing - a Provisional IRA car bomb killed three policemen and three civilians and injured ninety outside a department store in London.
1984[edit source | edit]18 May Three British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. Two RUC officers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Camlough, County Armagh.
12 October Brighton hotel bombing - the Provisional IRA carried out a bomb attack on the Grand Hotel, Brighton, which was being used as a base for the Conservative Party Conference. Five people, including MP Sir Anthony Berry, were killed. Margaret and Denis Thatcher narrowly escaped injury.[21]
1985[edit source | edit]28 February Newry mortar attack - a Provisional IRA mortar attack on the Newry RUC station killed nine officers and injured thirty-seven.[22]
20 May Four Royal Ulster Constabulary officers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb near Killean, County Down.
7 December Attack on Ballygawley barracks - the Provisional IRA launched an assault on the RUC barracks in Ballygawley, County Tyrone. Two RUC officers were killed and the barracks was completely destroyed by the subsequent bomb explosion.
1987[edit source | edit]8 November Remembrance Day bombing - 11 civilians were killed and sixty-three injured by a Provisional IRA bomb during a Remembrance Day service in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. One of those killed was Marie Wilson. In an emotional BBC interview, her father Gordon Wilson (who was injured in the attack) expressed forgiveness towards his daughter's killer, and asked Loyalists not to seek revenge. He became a leading peace campaigner and was later elected to the Irish Senate. He died in 1995.[23]
1988[edit source | edit]15 June Six off-duty British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb on their minibus in Lisburn.
20 August Ballygawley bus bombing – eight British soldiers were killed and 28 wounded by a Provisional IRA roadside bomb near Ballygawley, County Tyrone.
1989[edit source | edit]22 September Deal barracks bombing - 11 Royal Marine's bandsmen were killed by the Provisional IRAat Deal Barracks in Kent, England.[24]
1990[edit source | edit]9 April Four UDR soldiers were killed when the Provisional IRA detonated a culvert bomb under their patrol vehicle in Downpatrick, County Down. The bomb contained over 1,000 lb (450 kg) of explosive and was so powerful that the vehicle was blown into a nearby field. [25][26]
20 July The Provisional IRA bombed the London Stock Exchange.[27]
6 September The Provisional IRA planted two bombs aboard the Royal Fleet Auxiliary replenishment ship RFA Fort Victoria. One of them exploded, disabling the ship which had been constructed in Belfast and launched some weeks before. The second bomb failed to go off and was found and defused 15 days later.
24 October Proxy bomb attacks - the Provisional IRA launched three "proxy bombs" or "human bombs" at British Army checkpoints. Three men (who were working with the British Army) were tied into cars loaded with explosives and ordered to drive to each checkpoint. Each bomb was detonated by remote control. The first exploded at a checkpoint in Coshquin, killing the driver and five soldiers. The second exploded at a checkpoint in Killean; the driver narrowly escaped but one soldier was killed. The third failed to detonate.[28]
1991[edit source | edit]3 February The Provisional IRA launched a 'proxy bomb' attack on a Ulster Defence Regiment base in Magherafelt, County Londonderry. The bomb caused major damage to the base and nearby houses, but the driver escaped before it exploded.
18 February A Provisional IRA bomb exploded in a litter bin at Victoria Station, London, killing David Corner, and injuring 38. Since that time, there have been no litter bins anywhere on the station platform.[29]
31 May Glenanne barracks bombing - the Provisional IRA launched a large truck bomb attack on a UDR barracks in County Armagh. Three soldiers were killed, whilst ten soldiers and four civilians were wounded.
2 November Two British soldiers were killed when the IRA detonated a bomb at Musgrave Park British Army hospital in Belfast. A two storey building was destroyed by the blast.[30]
1992[edit source | edit]17 January Teebane bombing - A 600 pounds (270 kg) -1,500 pounds (680 kg) per another source[31]- roadside bomb detonated by the Provisional IRA destroyed a van and killed eight construction workers (one of them a soldier) on their way back from Lisanelly British Army barracks in Omagh, County Tyrone, where they were making repairs. Another eight were wounded.[32]
10 April Baltic Exchange bombing - a van loaded with one-ton of home-made explosives went off outside the building of the Baltic Exchange company, at 30 St Mary Axe, London, killing three people and injuring other 91.[33] The Provisional IRA bomb caused £800 million worth of damage, £200 million more than the total damage caused by the 10,000 explosions that had occurred during the Troubles in Northern Ireland up to that point.[34]
1 May Attack on Cloghogue checkpoint - the Provisional IRA, using a van modified to run on railway tracks, launched an unconventional bomb attack on a British Army checkpoint in South Armagh. The checkpoint was obliterated when the 1,000 kg bomb exploded, killing one soldier and injuring 23.
12 May Coalisland riots - After a small Provisional IRA bomb attack in the village of Cappagh, in which a paratrooper lost both legs, British soldiers raided two public houses and caused considerable damage in the nearby town of Coalisland. This led five days later to a fist-fight between soldiers and local inhabitants. Shortly thereafter, another group of British paratroopers arrived and fired on a crowd of civilians, injuring seven. Two soldiers were hospitalized.
23 September The Provisional IRA exploded a 3,700 lb bomb[35] at the Northern Ireland forensic science laboratory in south Belfast. The laboratory was obliterated, 700 houses were damaged, and 20 people were injured.[36] 490 owner and occupiers claim for damages.[37]
1993[edit source | edit]4 February Two IRA bombs exploded in the London area, one at a London Underground station and another on a Network Southeast train in Kent.[38]
20 March Warrington bomb attacks - after a telephoned warning, the Provisional IRA exploded two bombs in Cheshire, England. Two children were killed and 56 people were wounded. There were widespread protests in Britain and the Republic of Ireland following the deaths.[39]
24 April Bishopsgate bombing - after a telephoned warning, the Provisional IRA exploded a large bomb at Bishopsgate, London. It killed one civilian, wounded 30 others, and caused an estimated £350 million in damage.[40]
6 July A large IRA bomb caused widespread damage to the centre of Newtownards, Co Down. The centre of the market town was devastated by a bomb which the IRA said contained 1,500lbs of explosive. Seven people were injured, one seriously.[41]
23 October Shankill Road bombing - eight civilians, one UDA member and one Provisional IRA member were killed when an IRA bomb prematurely exploded at a fish shop on Shankill Road, Belfast.
1996[edit source | edit]9 February London Docklands bombing - the Provisional IRA bombed the Docklands in London. The bomb killed two civilians, and brought to an end the ceasefire after 17 months and nine days.[42]
15 June Manchester bombing - the Provisional IRA exploded a bomb in Manchester, England. It destroyed a large part of the city centre and injured over 200 people. To date, it is the largest bomb to be planted on the British mainland since the second world war. The devastation was so great, that several buildings were damaged beyond repair, and had to be demolished.[43]
7 October The Provisional IRA exploded two car bombs at the British Army HQ in Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn. One soldier was killed and 31 injured.
1997[edit source | edit]16 September Markethill bombing - the dissident Continuity IRA (CIRA) planted a 400-lb van bomb in the village of Markethill, County Armagh, just outside the local RUC station, causing widespread damage but a few injures.[44] The bombing happened a day after Sinn Féin joined the political negotiations which led to the Good Friday Agreement.[45]
1998[edit source | edit]15 August Omagh bombing - a dissident republican group calling itself the Real IRA exploded a bomb in Omagh, County Tyrone. It killed 29 civilians, making it the worst single bombing of the Troubles, in terms of civilian life lost.
1999[edit source | edit]15 March Solicitor Rosemary Nelson, who had represented the Catholic and nationalist residents in the Drumcree dispute, was assassinated by a booby trapped car bomb in Lurgan, County Armagh. A loyalist group, Red Hand Defenders, claimed responsibility.[46]


Of course, that's just the bomings....I have not inlcuded a single shooting....shall I go on?

tac>

Great Work Tac,
People nowadays seem to believe the British Army current and past are monsters. When in reality the IRA and UVF done huge damage to both themself's and the progress towards what is now a reasonable stable North, The Military where thrown into the middle to try and restore the peace.

thebigfella1

tac foley wrote: »

This is a list of notable bombings related to the Northern Ireland "Troubles" and their aftermath. It includes bombings that took place in Northern Ireland, the Republic of Ireland and Great Britain since 1969. There were at least 10,000 bomb attacks during the conflict (1969–1998).[1]

1971[edit source | edit]4 December McGurk's Bar bombing - 15 civilians were killed and 17 injured by a Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) bomb in Belfast.[2]
1972[edit source | edit]22 February Aldershot bombing - seven people were killed by an Official IRA bomb at Aldershot Barracks in England. It was thought to be in retaliation for Bloody Sunday. Six of those killed were female ancillary workers and the seventh was a Roman Catholic padre.[3]
4 March A bomb exploded without warning in the Abercorn restaurant on Castle Lane in Belfast. Two were killed and 130 injured.
14 April The Provisional Irish Republican Army (Provisional IRA) exploded 24 bombs in towns and cities across Northern Ireland. There was also 14 shootouts between the IRA and security forces.
21 July Bloody Friday - within the space of 75 minutes, the Provisional IRA exploded 22 bombs in Belfast. Nine people were killed (including two British soldiers and one UDA member) while 130 were injured.[4]
31 July Claudy bombing - nine civilians were killed by a car bomb in Claudy, County Londonderry. No group has since claimed responsibility.[5]
1 December Two civilians were killed and 127 injured by two Loyalist car bombs in Dublin, Republic of Ireland.
1973[edit source | edit]11 May A RUC officer, John Kirkpatrick, was seriously injured by a car bomb which detonated as he attempted to start his TVR 1600M outside of 79 Eglantine Avenue in Belfast.[6][7][8]
17 May Five British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA (PIRA) bomb in Omagh, County Tyrone.
12 June Six Protestant civilians were killed by a Provisional IRA (PIRA) bomb in Coleraine, County Antrim. The warning given prior to the explosion had been inadequate.
1974[edit source | edit]4 February M62 coach bombing - 12 people were killed by an IRA bomb planted on a coach carrying British soldiers and their families.[9]
2 May Six Catholic civilians were killed and 18 injured by a UVF bomb at a bar in Belfast.
17 May Dublin and Monaghan bombings - the Ulster Volunteer Force exploded four bombs (three in Dublin, one in Monaghan) in the Republic of Ireland. They killed 33 civilians including a pregnant woman.[10]
17 June The Provisional IRA bombed the Houses of Parliament in London, injuring 11 people and causing extensive damage.[11]
5 October Guildford pub bombings - Four soldiers and one civilian were killed by PIRA bombs at two pubs in Guildford, England.[12]
21 November Birmingham pub bombings - 21 civilians were killed by PIRA bombs at pubs in Birmingham, England.[13]
22 December The Provisional IRA announced a Christmas ceasefire. Prior to ceasefire, they carried out a bomb attack on the home of former Prime Minister Edward Heath. Mr Heath was not in the building at the time and no one was injured.[14]
1975[edit source | edit]17 July Four British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb near Forkhill, County Armagh. The attack was the first major breach of the February truce.
5 September Two killed and 63 injured when a bomb was detonated in the lobby of London's Hilton Hotel.[15]
1976[edit source | edit]15 May Five Catholic civilians were killed and many injured by two Ulster Volunteer Force bomb attacks in Belfast and Charlemont, County Armagh.
21 July Christopher Ewart Biggs, the British Ambassador to Ireland, and his secretary Judith Cook, were assassinated by a bomb planted in Mr. Biggs’ car in Dublin.[16]
1978[edit source | edit]17 February La Mon restaurant bombing - 12 civilians were killed and 30 injured by a Provisional IRA incendiary bomb at the La Mon Restaurant near Belfast.
21 September The Provisional IRA exploded bombs at the RAF airfield near Eglinton, County Londonderry. The terminal building, two aircraft hangars and four planes were destroyed.
14–19 November The Provisional IRA exploded over 50 bombs in towns across Northern Ireland, injuring 37 people. Belfast, Derry, Armagh, Castlederg, Cookstown and Enniskillen were hardest hit.
1979[edit source | edit]22 March The Provisional IRA also exploded 24 bombs in various locations across Northern Ireland.
30 March Airey Neave, Conservative was assassinated . A bomb exploded in his car as he left the Palace of Westminster in London. The Irish National Liberation Army (INLA) later claimed responsibity for the assassination.[17]
17 April Four RUC officers were killed by a Provisional IRA van bomb in Bessbrook, County Armagh. The bomb was estimated at 1000 lb, the largest Provisional IRA bomb used up to that point.
27 August Warrenpoint ambush - 18 British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb in Warrenpoint. A gun battle ensued between the Provisional IRA and the British Army, in which one civilian was killed. On the same day, four people (including the Queen’s cousin Lord Louis Mountbatten) were killed by an IRA bomb on board a boat near the coast of County Sligo.[18][19]
16 December Four British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Dungannon, County Tyrone. Another British soldier was killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Forkhill, County Armagh.
1980[edit source | edit]17 January Dunmurry train explosion - a Provisional IRA bomb prematurely detonated on a passenger train near Belfast, killing three and injuring five civilians.
1982[edit source | edit]20 April The Provisional IRA exploded bombs in Belfast, Derry, Armagh, Ballymena, Bessbrook and Magherafelt. Two civilians were killed and 12 were injured.
20 July Hyde Park and Regents Park bombings - 11 British soldiers and seven military horses died in Provisional IRA bomb attacks on Regents Park and Hyde Park, London. Many spectators were badly injured.[20]
6 December Droppin Well bombing - 11 British soldiers and six civilians were killed by an Irish National Liberation Army (NLA) bomb at the Droppin’ Well Bar, County Londonderry.
1983[edit source | edit]13 July Four Ulster Defence Regiment (UDR) soldiers were killed by a PIRA landmine in County Tyrone.
17 December Harrods bombing - a Provisional IRA car bomb killed three policemen and three civilians and injured ninety outside a department store in London.
1984[edit source | edit]18 May Three British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. Two RUC officers were killed by a Provisional IRA landmine near Camlough, County Armagh.
12 October Brighton hotel bombing - the Provisional IRA carried out a bomb attack on the Grand Hotel, Brighton, which was being used as a base for the Conservative Party Conference. Five people, including MP Sir Anthony Berry, were killed. Margaret and Denis Thatcher narrowly escaped injury.[21]
1985[edit source | edit]28 February Newry mortar attack - a Provisional IRA mortar attack on the Newry RUC station killed nine officers and injured thirty-seven.[22]
20 May Four Royal Ulster Constabulary officers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb near Killean, County Down.
7 December Attack on Ballygawley barracks - the Provisional IRA launched an assault on the RUC barracks in Ballygawley, County Tyrone. Two RUC officers were killed and the barracks was completely destroyed by the subsequent bomb explosion.
1987[edit source | edit]8 November Remembrance Day bombing - 11 civilians were killed and sixty-three injured by a Provisional IRA bomb during a Remembrance Day service in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh. One of those killed was Marie Wilson. In an emotional BBC interview, her father Gordon Wilson (who was injured in the attack) expressed forgiveness towards his daughter's killer, and asked Loyalists not to seek revenge. He became a leading peace campaigner and was later elected to the Irish Senate. He died in 1995.[23]
1988[edit source | edit]15 June Six off-duty British soldiers were killed by a Provisional IRA bomb on their minibus in Lisburn.
20 August Ballygawley bus bombing – eight British soldiers were killed and 28 wounded by a Provisional IRA roadside bomb near Ballygawley, County Tyrone.
1989[edit source | edit]22 September Deal barracks bombing - 11 Royal Marine's bandsmen were killed by the Provisional IRAat Deal Barracks in Kent, England.[24]
1990[edit source | edit]9 April Four UDR soldiers were killed when the Provisional IRA detonated a culvert bomb under their patrol vehicle in Downpatrick, County Down. The bomb contained over 1,000 lb (450 kg) of explosive and was so powerful that the vehicle was blown into a nearby field. [25][26]
20 July The Provisional IRA bombed the London Stock Exchange.[27]
6 September The Provisional IRA planted two bombs aboard the Royal Fleet Auxiliary replenishment ship RFA Fort Victoria. One of them exploded, disabling the ship which had been constructed in Belfast and launched some weeks before. The second bomb failed to go off and was found and defused 15 days later.
24 October Proxy bomb attacks - the Provisional IRA launched three "proxy bombs" or "human bombs" at British Army checkpoints. Three men (who were working with the British Army) were tied into cars loaded with explosives and ordered to drive to each checkpoint. Each bomb was detonated by remote control. The first exploded at a checkpoint in Coshquin, killing the driver and five soldiers. The second exploded at a checkpoint in Killean; the driver narrowly escaped but one soldier was killed. The third failed to detonate.[28]
1991[edit source | edit]3 February The Provisional IRA launched a 'proxy bomb' attack on a Ulster Defence Regiment base in Magherafelt, County Londonderry. The bomb caused major damage to the base and nearby houses, but the driver escaped before it exploded.
18 February A Provisional IRA bomb exploded in a litter bin at Victoria Station, London, killing David Corner, and injuring 38. Since that time, there have been no litter bins anywhere on the station platform.[29]
31 May Glenanne barracks bombing - the Provisional IRA launched a large truck bomb attack on a UDR barracks in County Armagh. Three soldiers were killed, whilst ten soldiers and four civilians were wounded.
2 November Two British soldiers were killed when the IRA detonated a bomb at Musgrave Park British Army hospital in Belfast. A two storey building was destroyed by the blast.[30]
1992[edit source | edit]17 January Teebane bombing - A 600 pounds (270 kg) -1,500 pounds (680 kg) per another source[31]- roadside bomb detonated by the Provisional IRA destroyed a van and killed eight construction workers (one of them a soldier) on their way back from Lisanelly British Army barracks in Omagh, County Tyrone, where they were making repairs. Another eight were wounded.[32]
10 April Baltic Exchange bombing - a van loaded with one-ton of home-made explosives went off outside the building of the Baltic Exchange company, at 30 St Mary Axe, London, killing three people and injuring other 91.[33] The Provisional IRA bomb caused £800 million worth of damage, £200 million more than the total damage caused by the 10,000 explosions that had occurred during the Troubles in Northern Ireland up to that point.[34]
1 May Attack on Cloghogue checkpoint - the Provisional IRA, using a van modified to run on railway tracks, launched an unconventional bomb attack on a British Army checkpoint in South Armagh. The checkpoint was obliterated when the 1,000 kg bomb exploded, killing one soldier and injuring 23.
12 May Coalisland riots - After a small Provisional IRA bomb attack in the village of Cappagh, in which a paratrooper lost both legs, British soldiers raided two public houses and caused considerable damage in the nearby town of Coalisland. This led five days later to a fist-fight between soldiers and local inhabitants. Shortly thereafter, another group of British paratroopers arrived and fired on a crowd of civilians, injuring seven. Two soldiers were hospitalized.
23 September The Provisional IRA exploded a 3,700 lb bomb[35] at the Northern Ireland forensic science laboratory in south Belfast. The laboratory was obliterated, 700 houses were damaged, and 20 people were injured.[36] 490 owner and occupiers claim for damages.[37]
1993[edit source | edit]4 February Two IRA bombs exploded in the London area, one at a London Underground station and another on a Network Southeast train in Kent.[38]
20 March Warrington bomb attacks - after a telephoned warning, the Provisional IRA exploded two bombs in Cheshire, England. Two children were killed and 56 people were wounded. There were widespread protests in Britain and the Republic of Ireland following the deaths.[39]
24 April Bishopsgate bombing - after a telephoned warning, the Provisional IRA exploded a large bomb at Bishopsgate, London. It killed one civilian, wounded 30 others, and caused an estimated £350 million in damage.[40]
6 July A large IRA bomb caused widespread damage to the centre of Newtownards, Co Down. The centre of the market town was devastated by a bomb which the IRA said contained 1,500lbs of explosive. Seven people were injured, one seriously.[41]
23 October Shankill Road bombing - eight civilians, one UDA member and one Provisional IRA member were killed when an IRA bomb prematurely exploded at a fish shop on Shankill Road, Belfast.
1996[edit source | edit]9 February London Docklands bombing - the Provisional IRA bombed the Docklands in London. The bomb killed two civilians, and brought to an end the ceasefire after 17 months and nine days.[42]
15 June Manchester bombing - the Provisional IRA exploded a bomb in Manchester, England. It destroyed a large part of the city centre and injured over 200 people. To date, it is the largest bomb to be planted on the British mainland since the second world war. The devastation was so great, that several buildings were damaged beyond repair, and had to be demolished.[43]
7 October The Provisional IRA exploded two car bombs at the British Army HQ in Thiepval Barracks, Lisburn. One soldier was killed and 31 injured.
1997[edit source | edit]16 September Markethill bombing - the dissident Continuity IRA (CIRA) planted a 400-lb van bomb in the village of Markethill, County Armagh, just outside the local RUC station, causing widespread damage but a few injures.[44] The bombing happened a day after Sinn Féin joined the political negotiations which led to the Good Friday Agreement.[45]
1998[edit source | edit]15 August Omagh bombing - a dissident republican group calling itself the Real IRA exploded a bomb in Omagh, County Tyrone. It killed 29 civilians, making it the worst single bombing of the Troubles, in terms of civilian life lost.
1999[edit source | edit]15 March Solicitor Rosemary Nelson, who had represented the Catholic and nationalist residents in the Drumcree dispute, was assassinated by a booby trapped car bomb in Lurgan, County Armagh. A loyalist group, Red Hand Defenders, claimed responsibility.[46]


Of course, that's just the bombings....I have not inlcuded a single shooting....shall I go on?

tac

Right so you ask me to explain why I said there was British atrocities in the North and you throw widely available information of bombings carried out by paramilitaries. I'm lost to the relevance it had to my reply. Did they or did they not carry out atrocities in the North.

I wasn't laying blame firmly at the feet of the British Army(whom I have respect for as anyone with an intrest in militray affairs usualy has, begruding or not). Soldiers follow orders, in a democracy orders come from Govt policies. So therefore a world leader and member of the un security councils 5 permanent seats was carrying out acts of unlawfull violence on "their" territory against "criminal" elements. So is it ok to fight fire with fire or should the state hold the morale high ground and look for alternate options?

I apoligise to the thread users for going completly off topic, but I had to respond to what was put to me. Debating is a way to broaden views and improve our knowledge

My original point in relevance was in no way a support to the IRA or anyone of the org on this island who all committed atrocities. Which I wholeheartedly condemn. I was simply stating that at the height of support for the IRA in the catholic communities they were still easily infiltrated by informers. And therefore in a planned coup in the South the chances of staging and executing a coup without infiltration would be about 5% IMO.

Thanks Tac, go on ahead there with the rest;)

riffmongous

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Great Work Tac,
People nowadays seem to believe the British Army current and past are monsters. When in reality the IRA and UVF done huge damage to both themself's and the progress towards what is now a reasonable stable North, The Military where thrown into the middle to try and restore the peace.

In fairness the actions of parts of the army and the subsequent coverups are what drove a lot of people to join the IRA and prolonged the suffering.

On topic, I think the OP is too old to reply to, but what would interest me would be the response of the government and the Guards to the sort of large scale sit in protests we see in the middle east and north africa at the moment.

Say you had thousands of people from a wide range of demographics staging a big sit-in in St. Stephens Greens and Merrion Square, protesting outside Leinster House then everyday, say against a severe budget if the economy took a sharp turn for the worse (so no quick political solution, massive social cuts are needed and you get unemployed, old people and students protesting)? A protest gets a bit rough due to troublemakers, a few innocent people get injured and then the protesters start to set up a barricades to their areas, what would be the State response? How hard would they be willing to go in?

Jawgap

tac foley wrote: »

Unlike the IRA, who took 'prisoners' and then tortured then to death using unmentionalbe methods, leaving them in a ditch, or hidden forever somewhere in Ireland, the British murdered nobody in custody, nor were ghere any incidents of torture. If this was so, many currently prominent persons in Northern Ireland would either be drooling in wheelchairs, or missing. The GFA ensured tha many mass-murderers are now free to walk the streets they once bombed.

I'm no fan of any the paramilitaries or their mealy mouthed spokespeople, but your assertion that there were no incidents of torture perpetrated by the Army and the then RUC does not stand up to scrutiny......

Inside the Torture Chamber: water boarding allegations against the army and RUC

The term water boarding has been widely used in recent years. Since the attack on the Twin Towers in 9/11, the previously little known interrogation technique has been a central and highly controversial part of the West's war against al-Qaeda.

Inside the Torture Chamber - a documentary to be broadcast on BBC Radio Ulster this Sunday - reveals that the technique was used 40 years ago by the Army in Northern Ireland.

there's also the not insignificant matter of IRELAND v. THE UNITED KINGDOM (Application no. 5310/71)

The uncontested finding of the ECHR was that "the Commission was unanimously of the opinion that the effect of the combined application of the five techniques in the case of fourteen persons amounted to torture."

On the matter of whether there was a shoot-to-kill policy, I'll just say that Brooke or maybe it was Pryor made the notorious comment about not having a shoot-to-tickle policy, plus the testimony of a lot of soldiers caught up in those events is strangely consistent.

.......and if I'm being honest, I'll admit there are quite a few individuals deserved some of that kind of rough treatment, but it would be wrong not to assume that too many who were rolled up and tortured or shot just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Jawgap

tac foley wrote: »

Allegations are not proof. Carefully walking around a bomb crater with a pair of kitchen tongs and a plastic bag, picking up pieces of your pals, IS proof.

I had NEVER heard of the British Army taking prisoners anywhere for torture. The ROE/Yellow Card instructions are quite clear, that is why most Army operation in NI had RUC officers accompanying them. Those terrorists caught in the commission of paramilitary activities were either dead, and therefore ineligible from any form of questioning, or, if injured, treated in hospital under the constraints and arrest of the Civil Powers represented by the then-Ruc.

My input in this thread - sadly drifted - is done.

tac

No, they were just whisked off for 'deep interrogation'

thebigfella1

Living in dreamland tac, to try and say that there was no british atrocities in the north is the eqivilant of saying South Africa has been the worlds leading light in civil rights since its foundation.

I don't think its an over statement to say the relevance of your posts is diminished by your resolute defence of the indefendable.

anto3473

In theory armies can be and have been defeated by much smaller irregular forces. The whole idea of guerrilla warfare is that you don't need to wait for all the right conditions to start an armed campaign - the insurrection in itself can create them.

If you look at the Cuban revolution as an example; Batista's forces were never up against more than a few hundred fighters and the whole lot was started with only 82 beardy lads and a boat. The majority were killed landing in Cuba only around 20 or so survived hid among the local population in the mountains and harassed the army and generally sabotaged stuff for a few months while they played the propaganda game drumming up more support. The US stopped supplying the Cuban Army with arms, the Cuban Air Force couldn't repair their planes that were getting damaged (without US parts) while trying to attack Castro's well dug in mountain positions and air superiority was lost fairly quickly.

12,000 soldiers were then sent in after them and Castro's crowd that now numbered about 300 ended up defeating them - even capturing a battalion of 500 men while only loosing 3 themselves. When Castro's forces were eventually pinned down by the Army he asked for a ceasefire then escaped back into the mountains again. Batista kind of realized the jig was up at this point and fled Cuba leaving Castro take over the place.

This whole thing was possible not so much because it had popular support but rather no other country tried to stop it.

A few thousand people could probably take over this place if

a) No other country got involved.
b) There was public support or at least not much public opposition.

I wouldn't recommend trying to overthrow a government though it usually doesn't work. and there is no such thing as re-spawning in real life.

braddun

they can hang you for treason

The crime of treason is defined by Article 39 of the Constitution of Ireland, adopted in 1937,

treason shall consist only in levying war against the State, or assisting any State or person or inciting or conspiring with any person to levy war against the State, or attempting by force of arms or other violent means to overthrow the organs of government established by the Constitution, or taking part or being concerned in or inciting or conspiring with any person to make or to take part or be concerned in any such attempt


The Criminal Justice Act 1990 abolished the death penalty completely and set the punishment for treason at life imprisonment, with parole in not less than forty years