50 Million Africans -EU

Captain Furball

I have read on many sites that over the coming years 50 million Africans will be allowed into the EU for work and will also be allowed social benefits.Europe's population is getting old, so we need all these Africans,so it says.They will be given a blue card, something very similar to the American green card.

50 MILLION PEOPLE
Personally I don't want Ireland to be like the uk.
Welcome to Europe.....

MarkK

Captain Furball wrote: »

I have read on many sites

The Daily Mail and the Sun?

oscarBravo

Captain Furball wrote: »

Europe's population is getting old, so we need all these Africans,so it says.

You don't think Europe's population is getting old? You don't think we'll need immigrants to pay for our pensions?

PaulieD

oscarBravo wrote: »

You don't think Europe's population is getting old? You don't think we'll need immigrants to pay for our pensions?

Are immigrants eternal? Hate to break it to you, but they will need pensions too.

PaulieD

MarkK wrote: »

The Daily Mail and the Sun?

The Daily Express actually. Heres the article I believe the OP was referring too.

AN EU job centre for migrants 

seeking work in Europe has been opened secretly in the West 

African state of Cape Verde.

The project is the second phase of a Brussels tax-funded plan to invite more than 50 million African workers into Britain and other members of the 27-nation EU bloc.

The advice centre, based in the island nation’s poverty-stricken capital Praia, follows a similar job centre opened in the desert 

African state of Mali in October.

The project is part of the EU’s controversial plan to help Africans find work legally in Europe.



http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/78180/50million-invited-to-Europe

KindOfIrish

PaulieD wrote: »

The Daily Express actually. Heres the article I believe the OP was referring too.

AN EU job centre for migrants 

seeking work in Europe has been opened secretly in the West 

African state of Cape Verde.

The project is the second phase of a Brussels tax-funded plan to invite more than 50 million African workers into Britain and other members of the 27-nation EU bloc.

The advice centre, based in the island nation’s poverty-stricken capital Praia, follows a similar job centre opened in the desert 

African state of Mali in October.

The project is part of the EU’s controversial plan to help Africans find work legally in Europe.



http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/78180/50million-invited-to-Europe

Usual British anti-EU bullsh...t

oscarBravo

PaulieD wrote: »

Are immigrants eternal? Hate to break it to you, but they will need pensions too.

I wasn't aware that a work permit entitled you to a pension.

BlitzKrieg

Is this part of the Barcalona initiative? (in which case it doesnt apply to Ireland or England as its a mediterranian focused scheme.) Or is the piece completely lacking in details beside Nigel Farrage's incompetance?

AN EU job centre for migrants 

seeking work in Europe has been opened secretly in the West 

African state of Cape Verde

I love how its always *secret* with anything the EU does.

Its not secret if you couldnt be arsed to report about it.

This is as bad as that time as the European Parliament *secretly* gave the british MEP's a payrise just before the european elections. Except of course it was decided in 2005 and the *payrise* was actually the British currency going to the dogs.

Scofflaw

So hard to find the various press releases and announcements surrounding the "secret" Mobility Partnership with Cape Verde...

amused,
Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg

those f*cking idiots.

Why cant people fact check anymore in newspapers?

The partnership reflects Cape Verde's expectations, particularly as regards facilitation short stay for its nationals on European Union territory, and those of the European Union as regards combating illegal immigration and readmission.

The partnership provides for the setting up in Praia of a joint centre which will accept applications for short-stay visas, promoting improvements in the arrangements for the movement of people and legal migration, and building Cape Verde's capacity to manage migration, notably by developing a centre designed to implement measures for the information, integration and protection of migrants and returnees. There are also plans to improve the efficiency of workers' migration procedures and to develop job opportunities both in Cape Verde and abroad.

As regards combating illegal immigration, the partnership is designed to combat illegal migration and trafficking in human beings and to strengthen management of the borders and document security, notably by building Cape Verde's capacity in the field of maritime security, the use of new information and communication technologies and training in checking documents. Initiatives relating to border controls should also be facilitated by the establishment of an operational arrangement between Cape Verde and Frontex.

from: http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/08/894&format=HTML&aged=0&language=en&guiLanguage=en

also the date june 2008 (yeah a sudden secret plan...)

Iwasfrozen

oscarBravo wrote: »

I wasn't aware that a work permit entitled you to a pension.

But it lets you stay in the country long enough to be entitled for citizenship.

oscarBravo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But it lets you stay in the country long enough to be entitled apply for citizenship.

FYP.

Why is that a bad thing?

Nodin

Captain Furball wrote: »

I have read on many sites that over the coming years ...(.....)....

I read that the Earth is 6,000 years young!!!!!

(O, and they found the Ark too).

Blitzkrieg wrote:

Why cant people fact check anymore in newspapers?

...because it would deprive their fairly xenophobic readership of their "O Noes!!!" adrenaline rush.

I note Romanians have slipped off the radar as the Express' 'Threat To All We Hold Dear'......

MarkK

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Why cant people fact check anymore in newspapers?

Facts are boring.
Newspapers such as the Express are in the business of spinning half-truths into "shocking" stories to get their reader's blood pumping in the morning.

Iwasfrozen

oscarBravo wrote: »

FYP.

Why is that a bad thing?

You didn't fix my post, you edited it.
I would like to edit it back:

Iwasfrozen wrote:

But it lets you stay in the country long enough to be entitled for citizenship.

That's better.
As for the reason why opening up of borders to immigration is a bad thing, well. I'll leave that for your logic.

PaulieD

oscarBravo wrote: »

FYP.

Why is that a bad thing?

As they will require pensions too. So we are back at square one.

ei.sdraob

PaulieD wrote: »

As they will require pensions too. So we are back at square one.

to apply for citizenship by naturalization you have to have worked for over 5 years with no gaps, have no criminal record and not claim any weflare (including unemployment prsi benefit)

and then you have to wait another 3 years for the application to be processed, all while still working, paying taxes, not claiming welfare

you know i would hapilly trade all the 100,000 wasters we have who milk the dole for hardworking immigrants, sending them scumbags that populate parts of limerick/dublin to africa wont be a bad idea

PaulieD

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you know i would hapilly trade all the 100,000 wasters we have who milk the dole for hardworking immigrants, sending them scumbags that populate parts of limerick/dublin to africa wont be a bad idea

And replace them with whom? Nigerians? Well, 62% of them were unemployed during the boom too.

Look, importing millions of Africans into europe is lunacy. We are having major problems integrating the ones here already. Not to mention the lack of jobs.

bonkey

Captain Furball wrote: »

I have read on many sites that ...

What sites, as a matter of interest?

I know that someone has linked to the Express already, but that alone isn't "many sites", its "one source".

The reason I ask is that a quick google on "50 Million Africans EU" turned up the following:

In place 1 & 2, we have the Daily Express
In position 3, we have GalliaWatch, referencing the Daily Express
Spot 4...is abovetopsecret, again, referencing the Daily Express
In 5th ...afcricancrisis, referencing the Daily Express
6th...this thread.
7th...The Romanian National Vanguard News Agency (no, really, it was) ...referencing the Daily Express
8th...Those nice people at stormfront, referencing the Daily Express
9th...Surprise...its this thread, again!
10th...off topic entirely. A miss from google.

So, given that 20% of the first page of hits on google are this thread, 20% are the Daily Express, another 70% are referencing it directly, and the remaining 10% is a complete miss...I'm wondering just what these "many sites" are.

I suspect that you've seen a small handful of sites repeat a claim made by the Daily Express....a claim which others have already shown here to be somewhat artistic with the portrayal of the facts.

PaulieD

Nodin wrote: »

...because it would deprive their fairly xenophobic readership of their "O Noes!!!" adrenaline rush.

I note Romanians have slipped off the radar as the Express' 'Threat To All We Hold Dear'......

Opposed to your orgasimic reaction to the news. More "diversity", "enrichment", and "colour" than you can shake a stick at. No doubt you would see this as a most welcome development.

ei.sdraob

PaulieD wrote: »

And replace them with whom? Nigerians? Well, 62% of them were unemployed during the boom too.

Look, importing millions of Africans into europe is lunacy. We are having major problems integrating the ones here already. Not to mention the lack of jobs.

62%? really?? source???

90% of statistics are made up on the spot they say

and where in this whole thing is there mention of Ireland


as i pointed out to you to qualify for naturalisation here you need to have over 8 years of paid prsi employment, no welfare claims and no criminal record (including penalty points)

ill say it again, over 8 years

bonkey

PaulieD wrote: »

Look, importing millions of Africans into europe is lunacy.

Would be lunacy, don't you mean?

And shouldn't that be "Cape Verdians"? After all, thats where this not-so-secret center has been set up.

Of course, it wouldn't be lunacy to bring 50,000,000 Cape Verdians to the EU in the coming years, it would be a physical impossibility, given that the country has a population of 1% of that....unless by "coming years" we mean "next few centuries".

Lets also note that when Cape Verde is referred to as a "West African State", its not much less inaccurate then saying that Ireland is a North-African neighbour. CV is an island archipelago, some 600km off the nearest point of mainland Africa.

bonkey

Nodin / PaulieD....

lets not lose the run of ourselves here.

PaulieD

ei.sdraob wrote: »

62%? really?? source???

Sure.

Now this reliance upon the state for the accommodation of so many Nigerians reflects another rather uncomfortable truth which was revealed in the 2006 census, but which has never -- so far as I know -- been highlighted in the media. It is this contrary to almost all predictions about the impact of immigrants upon an economy, a majority of Nigerians are not economically active at all. For even at the height of the boom, in 2006, only 38pc over the age of 15 were at work.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/risible-lies-about-immigrants-no-substitute-for-honest-debate-1456226.html

Anyway, there are more countries than just Nigeria in africa.

We do have problems with a large demographic of "dolers" in this country. Importing more to keep them company will not solve the problem.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

90% of statistics are made up on the spot they say

Dunno.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and where in this whole thing is there mention of Ireland

Sorry?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as i pointed out to you to qualify for naturalisation here you need to have over 8 years of paid prsi employment, no welfare claims and no criminal record (including penalty points)

I thought you can apply after five years in the country(other than students and asylum seekers), but there is a three year back log? So unofficially, its eight years?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

ill say it again, over 8 years

I understood you the first time. So if we import 56 million africans by 2050, all of whom will have obtained citizenship. We will be in a much worse position than we are in now, as we will have to provide pensions for a larger population. Its a vicous circle, wont you agree?

ei.sdraob

PaulieD wrote: »

wont you agree?

as i said earlier id rather 100,000 qualified hard working immigrants (whatever their color) who have to work hard and be law abiding

than the scumbags of the same number who deal drugs, dont bother working and chav around

the same people who didnt take the jobs when there were plenty, why work on minimum wage when you get more on dole

as for the kevin myers (of all the people :rolleyes:) opinion article
do remember that people who are waiting on assylum application

are not allowed to work legaly

Boston

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You didn't fix my post, you edited it.
I would like to edit it back:

That's better.
As for the reason why opening up of borders to immigration is a bad thing, well. I'll leave that for your logic.

Do you know the difference between being eligible for something and being entitled to something? The difference is somewhat nuanced and sometimes people can use the terms interchangeable, but they are not the same.

PaulieD

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as i said earlier id rather 100,000 qualified hard working immigrants (whatever their color) who have to work hard and be law abiding

Where will they work? Hate to break this to you, but per capita, there are more immigrants on the dole than Irish citizens. Foreign nationals make up 20% of the live registar, while only making up 10-15% of our overall population.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the same people who didnt take the jobs when there were plenty, why work on minimum wage when you get more on dole

I agree. There were around 150,000 "dolers" who remained unemployed during the good times. Id love to have heard their excuses for remaining unemployed , considering an eastern european with limited English could find a job within weeks of entering the state. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the dole office.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why work on minimum wage when you get more on dole

Why indeed. I despise dole leeches, all 150,000 of them, both Irish and foreign born. Ive a mate who has been on the dole since he left school. According to his Facebook profile and his most recent update, he is now on his way down to McDonalds, to get served by somebody who earns less than him, even though he has never worked a day in his life. He will be in the pub tomorrow evening and possibly the bookies too, getting served by somebody who earns less than him, despit working late hours. Himself and his other half are both on the scratcher, shes doing some FAS course. Their rent is covered by rent allowance, hes on JSA, shes on a FAS course, and the receive child benefit for their two babogs. Babog number three is on the way in seven months.:rolleyes:

ei.sdraob wrote: »

as for the kevin myers (of all the people :rolleyes:) opinion article
do remember that people who are waiting on assylum application

He backs his figures up with stats from the Central Statistics Office. How many Nigerians were waiting for their claims to be processed for asylum in 2006?

ei.sdraob wrote: »

are not allowed to work legaly

True, but that will change if labour enter government.;)

BlitzKrieg

There seems to be a huge jump in logic on this thread.

As someone clearly pointed out already, there is a very strict requirement to apply for citizenship.

Yet comments like this:

I understood you the first time. So if we import 56 million africans by 2050, all of whom will have obtained citizenship. We will be in a much worse position than we are in now, as we will have to provide pensions for a larger population. Its a vicous circle, wont you agree?

Considering there is hardly enough work at the moment to keep a population of 4 and half million people employed, I cannot for the life of me fanthom where the f*ck we are suddenly going to pull out 56 million permanent jobs that will last for 8 years consistenly.

The intial issue has been shown to be scaremongering. Its a programme for short term visas and the strengthening of anti illiegal immigrant policies. Yet somehow we have a number of people here fixated on the idea that we are intending to import wholesale from africa when its clearly not the case.


We turn to the whole *nigerians are thieves* debate and while its partly true, you ignore the issue that none of them on the dole will ever be entitled for citizenship if they remain on the dole, so again its another pointless argument. And more importantly that this policy put forward by the EU is a step forward in weeding out these illegal immigrants in the first place.

Jesus people just want a reason to whinge.

ei.sdraob

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

There seems to be a huge jump in logic on this thread.

As someone clearly pointed out already, there is a very strict requirement to apply for citizenship.

Yet comments like this:



Considering there is hardly enough work at the moment to keep a population of 4 and half million people employed, I cannot for the life of me fanthom where the f*ck we are suddenly going to pull out 56 million permanent jobs that will last for 8 years consistenly.

The intial issue has been shown to be scaremongering. Its a programme for short term visas and the strengthening of anti illiegal immigrant policies. Yet somehow we have a number of people here fixated on the idea that we are intending to import wholesale from africa when its clearly not the case.


We turn to the whole *nigerians are thieves* debate and while its partly true, you ignore the issue that none of them on the dole will ever be entitled for citizenship if they remain on the dole, so again its another pointless argument. And more importantly that this policy put forward by the EU is a step forward in weeding out these illegal immigrants in the first place.

Jesus people just want a reason to whinge.

exactly

the guy still hasnt provided the source for this tabloid trash

and thats all it is, trash



i hate (hmm the irony! :eek:) racists, nationalists and xenophobes, articles like the above and similar tactics where used before in last century to stir up **** and we ended up with concentration camps and countless genocides

CamperMan

why would immigrants come to Ireland now??, no jobs, dole cuts, pay cuts, poor quality of life... I think they would migrate to countries like the UK, Bulgaria, Romania, Germany, France, Spain... etc.

meditraitor

CamperMan wrote: »

why would immigrants come to Ireland now??, no jobs, dole cuts, pay cuts, poor quality of life... I think they would migrate to countries like the UK, Bulgaria, Romania, Germany, France, Spain... etc.

Even if the dole was cut by 30% it would still be higher than the countries named above

And as for Quality of life, we are way ahead of 95% of the world......

Your point makes no sense!

marco_polo

PaulieD wrote: »

Sure.

Now this reliance upon the state for the accommodation of so many Nigerians reflects another rather uncomfortable truth which was revealed in the 2006 census, but which has never -- so far as I know -- been highlighted in the media. It is this contrary to almost all predictions about the impact of immigrants upon an economy, a majority of Nigerians are not economically active at all. For even at the height of the boom, in 2006, only 38pc over the age of 15 were at work.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/risible-lies-about-immigrants-no-substitute-for-honest-debate-1456226.html

Anyway, there are more countries than just Nigeria in africa.

We do have problems with a large demographic of "dolers" in this country. Importing more to keep them company will not solve the problem.



Dunno.



Sorry?




I thought you can apply after five years in the country(other than students and asylum seekers), but there is a three year back log? So unofficially, its eight years?



I understood you the first time. So if we import 56 million africans by 2050, all of whom will have obtained citizenship. We will be in a much worse position than we are in now, as we will have to provide pensions for a larger population. Its a vicous circle, wont you agree?

Is Paul McGrath Nigerian? Because in Kevin Myers world he is. :rolleyes:

He is taking a figure of 16,300 Nigerian citizens and comparing it to figures for all people of African ethnicity, including Irish citizens and citizens of other countries with african origins as well as non nigerian africans.

The total number of unemployed people of African ethnicity (Including Irish citzens ) is a whopping 6,689.


http://www.cso.ie/census/census2006results/volume_5/vol_5_2006_complete.pdf

Lies, damned lies and statistics.

oscarBravo

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

You didn't fix my post, you edited it.

No, I fixed it, and you broke it again. You said something that wasn't true; I corrected it; and now you're making the same untrue assertion again.

As for the reason why opening up of borders to immigration is a bad thing, well. I'll leave that for your logic.

Why can't you explain it using your own logic? Is it supposed to be self-evident?

bill_ashmount

oscarBravo wrote: »

You don't think Europe's population is getting old? You don't think we'll need immigrants to pay for our pensions?

In 30 years time who pays for the 50 million immigrants? Or do they then bring in more, to pay for them and so on and so on......While I understand that this suits you and business leaders throughout Europe, it doesn't please a lot of people.

I don't know where this 50 million figure has come from. All I know is that at the moment europe brings in 1.8 million immigrants a year. This obviously doesn't count the huge number of illegals who enter every year. But do the maths, the figures are huge.

bill_ashmount

oscarBravo wrote: »

No, I fixed it, and you broke it again. You said something that wasn't true; I corrected it; and now you're making the same untrue assertion again. Why can't you explain it using your own logic? Is it supposed to be self-evident?

You want to open borders to a political entity with 450 million people to a world with 6.8 billion people. A world that is adding 70 million people a year in natural increase. A world that will be over 9 billion in 40 years time.

meditraitor

bill_ashmount wrote: »

In 30 years time who pays for the 50 million immigrants? Or do they then bring in more, to pay for them and so on and so on......While I understand that this suits you and business leaders throughout Europe, it doesn't please a lot of people.

I don't know where this 50 million figure has come from. All I know is that at the moment europe brings in 1.8 million immigrants a year. This obviously doesn't count the huge number of illegals who enter every year. But do the maths, the figures are huge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

Different regions have different rates of population growth. According to the above table, the growth in population of the different regions from 2000 to 2005 was:

237.771 million in Asia
92.293 million in Africa
38.052 million in Latin America
16.241 million in Northern America
1.955 million in Oceania
-3.264 million in Europe
383.047 million in the whole world

This is over 5 years and it shows a reduction in the number of people living in Europe.
This to me says there is plenty of room for 50m africans over the next 50 years.

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

In 30 years time who pays for the 50 million immigrants? Or do they then bring in more, to pay for them and so on and so on......While I understand that this suits you and business leaders throughout Europe, it doesn't please a lot of people.

Perhaps you, or some other of this "lot of people", could explain how we'll address the problems inherent in an aging population. So far, all I've seen is what looks like a bog-standard knee-jerk reaction to the idea of letting people with darker skin into the country.

I don't know where this 50 million figure has come from.

Neither do I, but it would be a lot easier to have a rational discussion on the topic without imaginary numbers being tossed around.

All I know is that at the moment europe brings in 1.8 million immigrants a year. This obviously doesn't count the huge number of illegals who enter every year. But do the maths, the figures are huge.

1.8 million, against an EU population of half a billion. My god, we'll be in the minority within months.

As for illegal entry, the whole discussion about creating mechanisms for legal entry is geared towards addressing the problems of illegal immigration. Yes, I know: those problems are largely being suffered by the southern European countries, but the EU has an annoying habit of finding ways for its member states to co-operate on solving problems.

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

You want to open borders to a political entity with 450 million people to a world with 6.8 billion people.

Are you asking me what I want, or telling me? Because I certainly haven't said that.

bill_ashmount

oscarBravo wrote: »

Perhaps you, or some other of this "lot of people", could explain how we'll address the problems inherent in an aging population. So far, all I've seen is what looks like a bog-standard knee-jerk reaction to the idea of letting people with darker skin into the country. Neither do I, but it would be a lot easier to have a rational discussion on the topic without imaginary numbers being tossed around. 1.8 million, against an EU population of half a billion. My god, we'll be in the minority within months.

Just couldn't help yourself mentioning skin colour. You like to play the race card to stifle debate, well done.

Why won't you explain who pays for the 50 million people at the end of their working life? Another 50 million, or another 100 million and on and on. This is convienent if Europe is to turn into a giant workshop for European business men.

What happens when there is no one left in the world to pay our pensions? Do we implode?

meditraitor

bill_ashmount wrote: »

What happens when there is no one left in the world to pay our pensions? Do we implode?

I wonder what happend before the idea of pensions was thought up?

bill_ashmount

meditraitor wrote: »

I wonder what happend before the idea of pensions was thought up?

Indeed

Boston

meditraitor wrote: »

I wonder what happend before the idea of pensions was thought up?

On a recent trip to Japan I visits on of tokyo's national parks. It happened to be one of the days were they feed the homeless. I saw hundreds, maybe thousands of people quietly queuing for rice. The vast majority of them didn't appear to be substance abusers. They where by and large all just old men who had reached an age whereby they could no longer work, had no support in the form of pensions, and simply ended up homeless. That's what happens.

O'Morris

Anyone who thinks mass immigration will be a fix for Europe's demographic problems might find this to be of interest

The idea has been discredited by every authority that has looked at it – from the UN, to the Council of Europe, the European Commission, the UK Government Immigration Advisory Service the Home Office, and the OECD. Browne quotes from a Home Office report of 2001. “The impact of immigration in mitigating population aging is widely acknowledged to be small because immigrants also age. For a substantial effect, net inflows of migrants would not only need to occur on an annual basis, but would have to rise continuously. Despite these and other findings, debate about the link between changing demography and a migration ‘fix’ refuses to go away.” The Council of Europe in a 2000 report argued: “Migration flows cannot in future be used to reverse trends in population ageing and decline in most Council of Europe countries. The flows required would be too large and it would be impossible to integrate them into the economy and society.”

Even the UN report, Replacement Migration: Is It A Solution to Declining and Ageing Population?, often cited as proving the case for replacement migration, actually came to the completely opposite conclusion. The authors concluded that the scale of migration needed to change the demographic profile of a whole country is so large as to be “out of reach”. For example, to combat the effect of aging population in South Korea (a very rapidly aging society) almost the entire population of the earth would have to move there by 2050.

daiixi

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

But it lets you stay in the country long enough to be entitled for citizenship.

Taken from the Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service website:

Naturalisation is a process whereby a foreign national can apply to become an Irish citizen. An application for a certificate of naturalisation will be considered under the provisions of the Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1956, as amended. The Act provides that the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform may, in his absolute discretion, grant an application for a certificate of naturalisation provided certain statutory conditions are fulfilled. The granting of Irish Citizenship through naturalisation is a privilege and an honour and not an entitlement.

Citizenship is NOT an entitlement.

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Just couldn't help yourself mentioning skin colour. You like to play the race card to stifle debate, well done.

...as opposed to you playing the "you want everyone in the world to move to Ireland" card?

If you want to pretend that this "story" isn't about whipping up outrage at the idea of an increase in the number of Africans in Europe, feel free.

Why won't you explain who pays for the 50 million people at the end of their working life? Another 50 million, or another 100 million and on and on. This is convienent if Europe is to turn into a giant workshop for European business men.

What happens when there is no one left in the world to pay our pensions? Do we implode?

If you're determined to reduce what could be an interesting discussion down to made-up numbers and hyperbole, you're free to continue it on your own.

O'Morris wrote: »

Anyone who thinks mass immigration will be a fix for Europe's demographic problems might find this to be of interest

I just hovered over that link to see where it went, and I'm not even going to bother clicking it.

bill_ashmount

oscarBravo wrote: »

If you're determined to reduce what could be an interesting discussion down to made-up numbers and hyperbole, you're free to continue it on your own.

lol, yawn......

If you bring in people to pay your pension, they in turn need to be paid for. This is a fact that european politicians and businessmen don't care about because they won't be around in 2 or 3 generations time. It is a never ending circle. Bring in more to pay for the others we have all ready brought in. Then bring in more to pay for them etc. etc.

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

If you bring in people to pay your pension, they in turn need to be paid for. This is a fact that european politicians and businessmen don't care about because they won't be around in 2 or 3 generations time. It is a never ending circle. Bring in more to pay for the others we have all ready brought in. Then bring in more to pay for them etc. etc.

OK, so you've dismissed out of hand the idea that allowing a certain amount of controlled immigration to compensate for the problems inherent in a shrinking, aging population could possibly have any merit. I don't know why you've dismissed that idea, but apparently it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

I'm sure at some point you'll explain why migration is intrinsically a bad thing, but in the meantime: do you happen to have any ideas of your own as to how to handle the inherent problems of a shrinking, aging population?

meditraitor

bill_ashmount wrote: »

lol, yawn......

If you bring in people to pay your pension, they in turn need to be paid for. This is a fact that european politicians and businessmen don't care about because they won't be around in 2 or 3 generations time. It is a never ending circle. Bring in more to pay for the others we have all ready brought in. Then bring in more to pay for them etc. etc.

What do you think all these people immigrating into ireland/europe will be doing untill they reach pensionable age?
Working my good friend, making genuine contributions to their pensions.

Unless you are one of the mad yokes who think all these africans will just arrive and sit around waiting for the "pot of gold" that is the irish/european state pension.

The pensions shortfall is not all down to the state pension and aging population, we have made serious errors in PS pension agreements that add significantly to the burdon.
Will most of these africans be looking for PS jobs?

bill_ashmount

meditraitor wrote: »

What do you think all these people immigrating into ireland/europe will be doing untill they reach pensionable age?
Working my good friend, making genuine contributions to their pensions.

And who pays for them when they are retired? The answer is very simple, more immigrants. And who pays for them, more immigrants again.

bill_ashmount

oscarBravo wrote: »

OK, so you've dismissed out of hand the idea that allowing a certain amount of controlled immigration to compensate for the problems inherent in a shrinking, aging population could possibly have any merit. I don't know why you've dismissed that idea, but apparently it has nothing to do with xenophobia.

I'm sure at some point you'll explain why migration is intrinsically a bad thing, but in the meantime: do you happen to have any ideas of your own as to how to handle the inherent problems of a shrinking, aging population?

Why won't you answer the question, when does it stop? The answer is never because you will always need more people to pay for the other people you bring in.

oscarBravo

bill_ashmount wrote: »

Why won't you answer the question, when does it stop? The answer is never because you will always need more people to pay for the other people you bring in.

You're seriously throwing stones in the won't-answer-the-question glass house?