Christmas bonus dole bonus

craichoe

I left Ireland a couple years back but didnt know that you get a christmas bonus on the dole ???!?!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1112/1224258661014.html

Whats the bonus for ... well done for doing nothing ?

She said the decision would greatly exacerbate the hardship faced by people on social welfare. “It is an entirely heartless decision, especially where you had obvious choices and you could have increased taxes.”

That quote really pisses me off .. penalise the working even more for the ones that aren't working.

The whole country is going to sh*t ... I have no interest in going back.

It was bad enough before I left, i.e lack of infrastructure, lack of planning, people will sell their mother for a quick buck, its gone all Capitalist America and now that the horse has bolted everyone is trying to grab as much money as they can to keep that BMW 5 Series they bought last year running.

TBH if i had to compare Ireland to my Job, i'd compare it to a Project that started out with a huge budget, overhired and paid over the odds for a ton of contractors without any strategy, then numerous times throughout the project the Project Manager left and was replaced over and over again passing on his probems to the next one.

Perhaps Sinn Fein should change their name to Me Fein, I'm sure they'd get votes then.

meglome

I believe they are not going to pay it this year.

FlutterinBantam

And rightly so

mikemac

It wasn't for everyone, only people who were on welfare schemes long-term, at least 12 months I think

Rainman1

mikemac wrote: »

It wasn't for everyone, only people who were on welfare schemes long-term, at least 12 months I think

So you were rewarded for being long term unemployed !, I endorse the original posters comments completely.

djk1000

Rainman1 wrote: »

So you were rewarded for being long term unemployed !, I endorse the original posters comments completely.

Not reward for being unemployed, it was so unemployed people and their dependents were able to meet the inevitable extra costs at Christmas. whether it's right or wrong, Christmas is expensive, buy a tree a turkey and a couple of kids presents and the bonus would be gone.

The underlying assumption was that social welfare was enough to survive and stay out of poverty, given the monthly cost of living, the cost of living is much much higher at Christmas, therefore an bonus was paid.

Same thing in September, there is a back to school bonus for social welfare recipients with kids in education, cost of living is higher in September for parents.

I don't see any problem with pensioners getting the bonus, they've served their time, paid their taxes and deserve it.

I also don't see any problem with someone getting the bonus when they are hard at it seeking a job, when they get their job, they'll be paying back into the system again, that's the nature of social insurance.

There are of course the minority of welfare recipients who don't deserve the support of taxpayers, their easy to spot, well able to work but on the dole for 5 years, those people should not get a bonus and their dole should be reduced by a few percent every month until they are so hard up they have to work.

Without trying to sound ignorant... I really don't understand the rant? The bonus has been cancelled since April...

Taxipete29

mikemac wrote: »

It wasn't for everyone, only people who were on welfare schemes long-term, at least 12 months I think

If im not mistaken it was 15 months. This actually makes a mockery of the whole thing. It never benefitted anyone who unfortuantly lost their job recently but more the spongers on the dole for years. Never made sense to me

Taxipete29

Deleted User wrote: »

Without trying to sound ignorant... I really don't understand the rant? The bonus has been cancelled since April...

I think there was always a hope that the Govt would back down and pay it

mikemac

Taxipete29 wrote: »

If im not mistaken it was 15 months. This actually makes a mockery of the whole thing. It never benefitted anyone who unfortuantly lost their job recently but more the spongers on the dole for years. Never made sense to me

I'd say you're correct, I knew either 12 months or 15 months, I couldn't remember which. I'm happy to be corrected

And yes, it's been cancelled since April so it's not as if they cut it a few weeks before Christmas

ntlbell

djk1000 wrote: »

Not reward for being unemployed, it was so unemployed people and their dependents were able to meet the inevitable extra costs at Christmas. whether it's right or wrong, Christmas is expensive, buy a tree a turkey and a couple of kids presents and the bonus would be gone.

3 square meals a day cost the same at xmas as they do any other time.

if they want presents they can put in a request with their local SVDP and hope for the best.

tree's, presents, and flipping turkeys.

What planet are some people on.

brianthebard

It was neither 12 nor 15.

OP why the hate? I semi understand why people used to criticise those on the dole, but with unemployment so high at the minute its clear that most on the dole are not trying to sponge off the system, (not that I ever believed this) they've recently lost their jobs and there is nothing available right now.

Stark

It used to be part of the basic welfare package. Fair enough that pensioners, people on disability allowance and carers should get it. Receiving a bonus for having scrounged off the state for long enough during a time of full employment was bull**** though. I imagine there's plenty of working families who won't be in a position to afford nice things this Christmas either so not exactly fair to give a bonus to one group of "vulnerable" and not to other vulnerable families.

Deleted User wrote: »

Without trying to sound ignorant... I really don't understand the rant? The bonus has been cancelled since April...

Because Labour, Sinn Féin and various pressure groups won't STFU about it and it'll be back on if they have their way.

djk1000 wrote:

Christmas is expensive, buy a tree a turkey and a couple of kids presents and the bonus would be gone.

An artificial tree costs less than €20 these days and lasts for years.

Taxipete29

brianthebard wrote: »

It was neither 12 nor 15.

OP why the hate? I semi understand why people used to criticise those on the dole, but with unemployment so high at the minute its clear that most on the dole are not trying to sponge off the system, (not that I ever believed this) they've recently lost their jobs and there is nothing available right now.

15 according to citizens advice

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/christmas-bonus

efb

People on JSB didn't get it, just JSA...
it pays to sponge long term...

furiousox

efb wrote: »

People on JSB didn't get it, just JSA...
it pays to sponge long term...

l'm only on JSB since April, so l'm a short term sponger.......right? :rolleyes:

Stark

Newbie sponger is the more appropriate term. Also I notice a certain amount of post blindness regarding JSA and JSB.

efb

No that was my point JSB is effectively your 'Stamps' your PRSI money.

JSA on the other hand should be replaced with vouchers

furiousox

Stark wrote: »

Newbie sponger is the more appropriate term

are you trolling?

craichoe

brianthebard wrote: »

It was neither 12 nor 15.

OP why the hate? I semi understand why people used to criticise those on the dole, but with unemployment so high at the minute its clear that most on the dole are not trying to sponge off the system, (not that I ever believed this) they've recently lost their jobs and there is nothing available right now.

Christmas should have nothing to do with money, Playstations, iPods, Jewelery, expensive presents its absolutely ludicrous to expect a 'bonus' from Social Welfare no less at christmas.

The dole isn't meant to a frikking Holiday, its meant to support you until you get a new job, but not in a fashion that will encourage you to stay unemployed.

I'm not criticising the people themselves, i'm criticising the system, i.e. some people are better off on the dole than working.

Wertz

efb wrote: »

JSA on the other hand should be replaced with vouchers

I agree to an extent...but where should the vouchers be issued for?
Local small businesses? Large UK retailers? Farmer's markets?
Should the government start up their own retail business to sell food and essentials to those on SW?

irish_bob

craichoe wrote: »

I left Ireland a couple years back but didnt know that you get a christmas bonus on the dole ???!?!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/1112/1224258661014.html

Whats the bonus for ... well done for doing nothing ?



That quote really pisses me off .. penalise the working even more for the ones that aren't working.

The whole country is going to sh*t ... I have no interest in going back.

It was bad enough before I left, i.e lack of infrastructure, lack of planning, people will sell their mother for a quick buck, its gone all Capitalist America and now that the horse has bolted everyone is trying to grab as much money as they can to keep that BMW 5 Series they bought last year running.

TBH if i had to compare Ireland to my Job, i'd compare it to a Project that started out with a huge budget, overhired and paid over the odds for a ton of contractors without any strategy, then numerous times throughout the project the Project Manager left and was replaced over and over again passing on his probems to the next one.

Perhaps Sinn Fein should change their name to Me Fein, I'm sure they'd get votes then.

the 1st half of your post criticised our overley generous wellfare state yet by the end of the post , your accusing us of being like capitalist america as if america has anything like as generous of a wellfare state as ireland , muddled post

Max Power1

mikemac wrote: »

It wasn't for everyone, only people who were on welfare schemes long-term, at least 12 months I think

Basically it rewarded the "long term unemployed" (or the unemployable group of society, anyone who didnt have a job during the boom times didnt want one because there was an abundance of jobs). Should never have instated the "bonus" in the first place and definetly the right decision to scrap it.

craichoe

irish_bob wrote: »

the 1st half of your post criticised our overley generous wellfare state yet by the end of the post , your accusing us of being like capitalist america as if america has anything like as generous of a wellfare state as ireland , muddled post

I don't think so ,

First half of the post is about the welfare system being flawed,

Everything after "The whole country is going to sh*t ... I have no interest in going back."

Is why I wouldn't go back.

Daithinski

craichoe wrote: »

Perhaps Sinn Fein should change their name to Me Fein, I'm sure they'd get votes then.

I think Fianna Fail already has dibs on this name.

TCP/IP_King

craichoe wrote: »

penalise the working even more for the ones that aren't working.

And tax relief on investor mortgages is the scandal at the other end of the "money for nothing" scale.

Why is it always the non-moving easy to hit target that everyone on this board uses ?

Stark

TCP/IP_King wrote: »

And tax relief on investor mortgages is the scandal at the other end of the "money for nothing" scale.

Why is it always the non-moving easy to hit target that everyone on this board uses ?

That was Step 1: Creating a bubble and then bursting it.
Now we're onto step 2, death by a thousand cuts. Mostly as a result of the give away budgets that were justified based on the bubble in step 1.

Fianna Fáil sold us down the river in Step 1. Now we can either keep playing the blame game while proceeding with Step 2 or we can attempt to pull back.

efb

Wertz wrote: »

I agree to an extent...but where should the vouchers be issued for?
Local small businesses? Large UK retailers? Farmer's markets?
Should the government start up their own retail business to sell food and essentials to those on SW?

Energy, Food, Sky Sports on da dodgy box, Travel, Accommodation

thebman

Wertz wrote: »

I agree to an extent...but where should the vouchers be issued for?
Local small businesses? Large UK retailers? Farmer's markets?
Should the government start up their own retail business to sell food and essentials to those on SW?

It doesn't have to be vouchers, it can be a debit card or compatible with that system so as not to cost retailers anything upgrading systems or embarrass those using it.

Then the card only validates in government approved stores and it can't be used outside the country.

PaulieD

Stark wrote: »

Newbie sponger is the more appropriate term. Also I notice a certain amount of post blindness regarding JSA and JSB.

Give the chap a break, hes on JSB so he paid his fair share in contributions.

old boy

craichoe wrote: »

Christmas should have nothing to do with money, Playstations, iPods, Jewelery, expensive presents its absolutely ludicrous to expect a 'bonus' from Social Welfare no less at christmas.

The dole isn't meant to a frikking Holiday, its meant to support you until you get a new job, but not in a fashion that will encourage you to stay unemployed.

I'm not criticising the people themselves, i'm criticising the system, i.e. some people are better off on the dole than working.

if i remember correctly and i am open to contradiction, it was firstly brought in at the behest of the vincent de paul and similar groups in an effort to keep the less better off out of the clutches of the money lenders, who ever decided to call it a bonus should have changed their dealer.

Stark

PaulieD wrote: »

Give the chap a break, hes on JSB so he paid his fair share in contributions.

Hence the post blindness regarding JSB and JSA. There's no Christmas bonus on JSB.

PaulieD

Stark wrote: »

Hence the post blindness regarding JSB and JSA. There's no Christmas bonus on JSB.

I wouldnt know, Ive been on either, thankfully. Anyway that wasnt my point.

furiousox wrote: »

l'm only on JSB since April, so l'm a short term sponger.......right?

Stark wrote: »

Newbie sponger is the more appropriate term.

No need to give the chap stick, hes on JSB so he has paid his fair share of contributions.

furiousox

PaulieD wrote: »

Give the chap a break, hes on JSB so he paid his fair share in contributions.

Yup, l left school at 16 with a leaving cert back in the fabulous 80's.
My luck finally ran out as l'm now 43, out of work and signing on for the first time in my life.
That's a good few years prsi so forgive me if l don't consider myself a sponger, 'newbie' or otherwise....

PaulieD

furiousox wrote: »

Yup, l left school at 16 with a leaving cert back in the fabulous 80's.
My luck finally ran out as l'm now 43, out of work and signing on for the first time in my life.
That's a good few years prsi so forgive me if l don't consider myself a sponger, 'newbie' or otherwise....

No need to explain yourself, my man. There are a lot of good people on the dole, through no fault of their own. We should be targeting the 150,000 people who remained on the dole during the good times and those who are in the state a wet day.

Keep the chin up, something will eventually fall your way.:)

furiousox

Stark wrote: »

Newbie sponger is the more appropriate term.

So, are you going to take that back or what?

Scofflaw

furiousox wrote: »

So, are you going to take that back or what?

If you object to it, please report it - but as far as I can see it's a joke.

General reminder: if you object to something another poster has said, don't engage in either tit-for-tat or wrangling, because you'll both wind up banned. The "Report Post" icon is there for a reason, as are the moderators.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Wertz

efb wrote: »

Energy, Food, Sky Sports on da dodgy box, Travel, Accommodation

But still using vouchers? What of other purchases that even the unemployed need to make outside of the essentials?

thebman wrote: »

It doesn't have to be vouchers, it can be a debit card or compatible with that system so as not to cost retailers anything upgrading systems or embarrass those using it.

Then the card only validates in government approved stores and it can't be used outside the country.

I like this idea...sounds more workable than a voucher system. But it still has problems...governments approving stores or other vendors would need to make sure that those retailers and service providers were providing value for money and that they couldn't abuse their positions as being the only places where the jobless could redeem their "credits". Would certain items like cigarettes and booze be off limits for card users?

Then there's the problem covered by this very thread; how does anyone on such a system save small amounts weekly to put toward larger essential purchases or for the likes of christmas, back to school, etc?
People can make all the arguments they like about those who live on welfare not being entitled to spend money on anything other than the basic essentials, but in reality needs arise for things other than the basics every so often...in the complete absence of paying work, where do these people find the cash to put by for those inevitable rainy days?

As much as I can see the merits of such a system, there are a lot of kinks that would need ironed out and tbh there's a lot of other things that need to change before such a system could be workable...

thebman

Wertz wrote: »

But still using vouchers? What of other purchases that even the unemployed need to make outside of the essentials?




I like this idea...sounds more workable than a voucher system. But it still has problems...governments approving stores or other vendors would need to make sure that those retailers and service providers were providing value for money and that they couldn't abuse their positions as being the only places where the jobless could redeem their "credits". Would certain items like cigarettes and booze be off limits for card users?

Then there's the problem covered by this very thread; how does anyone on such a system save small amounts weekly to put toward larger essential purchases or for the likes of christmas, back to school, etc?
People can make all the arguments they like about those who live on welfare not being entitled to spend money on anything other than the basic essentials, but in reality needs arise for things other than the basics every so often...in the complete absence of paying work, where do these people find the cash to put by for those inevitable rainy days?

As much as I can see the merits of such a system, there are a lot of kinks that would need ironed out and tbh there's a lot of other things that need to change before such a system could be workable...

You could just as easily have a system with no restrictions on purchases that allows people to buy anything and excess purchases of luxury items can be flagged on the social welfare system to admin staff where those people are then asked to explain themselves.

Excess luxury purchases would probably be something like buying an LCD TV or something on it. Of course people getting cash in hand on the side would benefit from such a system.

For places that don't accept laser, you could have social cheques (don't need to look different to bank cheques) that show up in the social welfare system when cashed.

This would not make people on the dole think before they spend TBH. Any excess saved should be kept on the card for the following week/month if means tested after a year or so they could review it to see if someone is getting more than they need or not enough.

Basically you need to force everything through a system to police the means tested. IMO if your not means tested you should be handed cash. You paid into the system so its your money your getting out that you are entitled to.

You just want to make it less desirable to stay long term unemployed.

ntlbell

furiousox wrote: »

Yup, l left school at 16 with a leaving cert back in the fabulous 80's.
My luck finally ran out as l'm now 43, out of work and signing on for the first time in my life.
That's a good few years prsi so forgive me if l don't consider myself a sponger, 'newbie' or otherwise....

This attitude irks me.

"I paid my due's i'm just taken back what i'm oue'd" you don't pay into the system to take it back

it's not a pension. it gets spent. on you know, running the country.

Taxipete29

ntlbell wrote: »

This attitude irks me.

"I paid my due's i'm just taken back what i'm oue'd" you don't pay into the system to take it back

it's not a pension. it gets spent. on you know, running the country.

PRSI- Pay Related Social Insurance

The clue is in the name

furiousox

ntlbell wrote: »

This attitude irks me.

"I paid my due's i'm just taken back what i'm oue'd" you don't pay into the system to take it back

it's not a pension. it gets spent. on you know, running the country.

Right, first off really sorry for 'irking' you, l'll try hard not to get laid off again :rolleyes:

Secondly, l don't consider myself 'retired' so l don't view it as a f'ing pension!

l'm spending my days, you know...'looking for a job'

l know there are people out there abusing the system but l ain't one of them yet l've already been labelled a sponger......by a mod!

l never wanted to 'take anything back from the system'
l'd rather be in the f'ing system...contributing!

Go down to the chemists and get yourself a bottle of cop-on!

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

PRSI- Pay Related Social Insurance

The clue is in the name

Which pays your stamp, which is worth very little.

I was referring to the actual tax that gets spend on

junkies methadone.

your kids schools

etc etc etc etc

It's not a case of Oh i've worked for x amount of years, i'll sit on my arse now and get back what i'm oued. your not oued it, it's gone.

Taxipete29

ntlbell wrote: »

Which pays your stamp, which is worth very little.

I was referring to the actual tax that gets spend on

junkies methadone.

your kids schools

etc etc etc etc

It's not a case of Oh i've worked for x amount of years, i'll sit on my arse now and get back what i'm oued. your not oued it, it's gone.

Considering he didnt say he was going to sit on his arse your argument fails on all levels

ntlbell

furiousox wrote: »

Right, first off really sorry for 'irking' you, l'll try hard not to get laid off again :rolleyes:

Secondly, l don't consider myself 'retired' so l don't view it as a f'ing pension!

l'm spending my days, you know...'looking for a job'

l know there are people out there abusing the system but l ain't one of them yet l've already been labelled a sponger......by a mod!

l never wanted to 'take anything back from the system'
l'd rather be in the f'ing system...contributing!

Go down to the chemists and get yourself a bottle of cop-on!

the fact you got laid of is not a problem, the fact you think because you contributed to society for x amount of years that soicety oue's you is the issue.

I don't have any sort of problem with you claiming your sw it's the sense of entitlement that's irking.

it's irelvant that you want to take back or not, you couldn't control losing your job but you can control that self indulgent i saved the planet for the last 20years working attitude.

ntlbell

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Considering he didnt say he was going to sit on his arse your argument fails on all levels

I never said he did either.

nice try tho.

furiousox

ntlbell wrote: »

the fact you got laid of is not a problem, the fact you think because you contributed to society for x amount of years that soicety oue's you is the issue.

I don't have any sort of problem with you claiming your sw it's the sense of entitlement that's irking.

it's irelvant that you want to take back or not, you couldn't control losing your job but you can control that self indulgent i saved the planet for the last 20years working attitude.

I don't have any 'saving the planet' attitude, l actually believe l was fortunate to be in work for as long as l was.

The fact is, l am entitled to jobseekers benefit, same as anyone else in my position, thats not self indulgence, thats a legal entitlement.
And fwiw, l don't expect any 'christmas bonus' either.

I can't work out if you're flaming, trolling, or both?
Either way, make sure you get to the chemists for that bottle of cop-on today won't you?

ChillyJilly

Taxipete29 wrote: »

Considering he didnt say he was going to sit on his arse your argument fails on all levels

ntlbell wrote: »

I never said he did either.

nice try tho.

Erm... yea you did

ntlbell wrote: »

It's not a case of Oh i've worked for x amount of years, i'll sit on my arse now and get back what i'm oued. your not oued it, it's gone.

ntlbell

ChillyJilly wrote: »

Erm... yea you did

um no i didn't?

where did i say HE said that?

ntlbell

furiousox wrote: »

Either way, make sure you get to the chemists for that bottle of cop-on today won't you?

Try a bit of class on.

it might help in interviews too.

furiousox

are you back yet?