Appologies WTF??

Mahatma coat

So St Kevin of Dalby has appologisd to yet another group witha percieved wronging by PREVIOUS generations of Australians


Yet Again WE DIDNT DO IT, why should we shoulder the burder of the Flood of Compo claims expected shortly.

So who else should we apologise to?

Vietnam for Invading them

Turkey for the same reasons

PNG for not havin the balls to defend West Papua

Iraq for invading them

the boat people for not embracing them with open arms



dont worry tho Folks I'm sure we've hurt someones feelings somewhere, so lets have St Kevin make it all better.

Yes that right folks, Kev can make years and years of institutional abuse go away wit just a few Very Very cheap words.

then we will pay for the next ten years.



Ya know who does deserve an appology tho,

The James Hardie victims, but the Govt is going to take the same approach as Hardies here, Wait til most of them die first, expect that appology in your Grandchildrens lifetime.




Political grandstanding annoys me intensley

Zambia

Mahatma coat wrote: »

Political grandstanding annoys me intensley

I would agree with you here, I think we will have another one closer to elections.

It does stink of Kevin Playing the Bigger man. A no cost vote winner.

Doc

If it makes the people who where wronged in the past fell better then why not? Who dose it hurt to say sorry?

Mahatma coat

it hurts us when their Compensation claims drain money from an already diminished Fedral Budget.

John Howard never felt the need to appologise for anything.

shows the marked difference between this nations last great Statesman and some snivelling little Union toady with flashy rhetoric and no discernable poliies.

Traumadoc

Howard (Bush's lick*rse) let children rot in concentration camps in the South Australian outback because it gained him votes.

Mahatma coat

one of those votes was mine

And Howard was not Bush's Lickarse, not anywhere near the level of SirToeKnee.


John Howard did a lot of great things for this country, most importantly he let me Stay :D:D:D

myhorse

For once I applaude him. A pity it didnt happen sooner but at least it has happened. There was an entire generation (huge proportion Irish whose mothers were shipped to UK to have their babies outside of wedlock) who were told that the were orphans(and were not) , shipped out to Australia and subjected to horrific abuse of both kinds. They were never recognised by either the UK or Australian governments. Many to later find out that they had families back in Ireland or the UK and were not orphans.

There is no claims of "compo" just offical recognision of the wrongs that were commited. All that was asked for the past 20 years was acknowledgement of the wrongs carried out. Its not going to take one cent extra out of your pay packet regardless of compo or not.

Why not take the same line as some are suggesting in this thread and ignore what went on in state/religious run schools in Ireland. Dont say sorry and sweep it under the carpet incase it might cost some money or loss of face. Ignore it because it happened "back them". Not my problem bud boo hoo.

bollocks to that - it happened it was wrong and real people suffered and were ignored because it was easier to ignore than acknowledge. Finally some 50+ year old adults who contributed to this country for a damn sight longer than any of us have got some sort of apology.

onya kev - at least you made the time to say sorry (and also get this story in pretty much every major paper in the english speaking world).

Traumadoc

It's like giving out to archbishop Brady for apologising for priests who raped little boys.
How dare he!

Daithio

Politicians will happily take credit for successes of the past, it makes sense that they should be big enough to acknowledge mistakes of the past also. Kevin Rudd isn't personally responsible, obviously, but he is representing a state which is responsible, and as such he has a duty to apologise in the name of that state. And these wrongdoings were carried out by that state. That is indisputable

And to say that a reason for not apologising is that it opens the door to compensation claims when the federal budget is already strapped for cash is absolutely laughable. Maybe we should decriminilise murder, it would save us pennies not having to keep the perpetrators locked up in prison for all those years. These people have a right to compensation, and the state of the public finances has absolutely nothing to do with that.

The notion that monetary concerns should supercede justice is EXTREMELY worrying, and an absolutely bonkers stance to take.

Jumpy

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So St Kevin of Dalby has appologisd to yet another group witha percieved wronging by PREVIOUS generations of Australians


Yet Again WE DIDNT DO IT, why should we shoulder the burder of the Flood of Compo claims expected shortly.

So who else should we apologise to?

Vietnam for Invading them

Turkey for the same reasons

PNG for not havin the balls to defend West Papua

Iraq for invading them

the boat people for not embracing them with open arms



dont worry tho Folks I'm sure we've hurt someones feelings somewhere, so lets have St Kevin make it all better.

Yes that right folks, Kev can make years and years of institutional abuse go away wit just a few Very Very cheap words.

then we will pay for the next ten years.



Ya know who does deserve an appology tho,

The James Hardie victims, but the Govt is going to take the same approach as Hardies here, Wait til most of them die first, expect that appology in your Grandchildrens lifetime.




Political grandstanding annoys me intensley

Wait... who is this we paleface?

Aren't you Irish?

Zambia

Doc wrote: »

If it makes the people who where wronged in the past fell better then why not? Who dose it hurt to say sorry?

I am gonna trust my gut on this. When someone really wants you to look at one hand , pay more attention to the hand he is trying to draw your eyes from.

m@cc@

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So St Kevin of Dalby has appologisd to yet another group witha percieved wronging by PREVIOUS generations of Australians

Percieved wronging?! Get off your soapbox!

Daithio

Zambia232 wrote: »

I am gonna trust my gut on this. When someone really wants you to look at one hand , pay more attention to the hand he is trying to draw your eyes from.

Rudd's motives have nothing whatsoever to do with the rightness or wrongness of the apology in itself. You can make your own judgment as to whether you think those people deserve an apology. But to say that they don't because Mr. Rudd has a political agenda is ridiculous. That's like saying that Nazi war criminals shouldn't have been prosecuted because of the positive political spillovers that Allied leaders garnered from it. You can't extricate the politics from a political system.

Zambia

Daithio wrote: »

Rudd's motives have nothing whatsoever to do with the rightness or wrongness of the apology in itself. You can make your own judgment as to whether you think those people deserve an apology. But to say that they don't because Mr. Rudd has a political agenda is ridiculous. That's like saying that Nazi war criminals shouldn't have been prosecuted because of the positive political spillovers that Allied leaders garnered from it. You can't extricate the politics from a political system.

They do but the people who should be giving the apology are not.

Neither the Rudd or Howard Goverments has any part in the act so why apologise.

Will Rudd apologise for the pacific solution?(Not that I think one is needed)

Mahatma coat

No, Rudd will GUARANTEE Fast Track Visas if you Hijack an Australian Boat:eek:

and Jumpy as for the WE bit, I live here PERMENANTLY


Zambia is right, this is a non issue, some of the people were abused, a lot of them had happy and productive lifes and made a healthy contribution to Australian Society

Also on the topic of Nazi War Criminals, wht do you make of the guy they dragged out of Perth at the ripe old age of 80 to face 'Allegations' of War Crimes?




Things we SHOULD be annoyed about this week include

The MASSIVE OIL SPILL IN THE TIMOR SEA

Rudds Dismantling of the PAcific Solution

Garrets decision on the Traveston Dam

This stupid Carbon trading scheme thats gonna cripple the country

Stern Hu's continued detention

but instead we get Wishy Washy feelgood but ultimatley useless Grandstanding

Mahatma coat

The notion that monetary concerns should supercede justice is EXTREMELY worrying, and an absolutely bonkers stance to take.

See my point Re James Hardie.

this is cheap cheap Grandstanding that achieves almost nothing inthe grander scheme of things, if Rudd actuall had balls he'd sort out the Hardies issue.

but no, Expect an apology in about 30 years from a future government, thats what I object to here.

sure it looks all noble at first glance but this is a distraction, adn a cynical and calculated one at that

Traumadoc

I see Melbourne university is now apologising for experimenting on children. I suppose you feel that this is totally unnecessary and expose the lucky land to unnecessary compo claims.

Zambia

Heres the thing if you did something wrong you apologise for it.

If Your Neighbour Mr A damages your garden fence. You get pissed and demand an apology.

Then Mr B moves in the house beside you and Mr A moves out. Mr B then apologises for damaging your Fence.

You would still be annoyed as it was not Mr B who did it. Mr A has not really aknowledged his mistake at all. Mr B can apologise easily because he really does not care about the issue.

Apologising for stuff you did not do is a little silly in my Book.

Doc

Zambia232 wrote: »

Heres the thing if you did something wrong you apologise for it.

If Your Neighbour Mr A damages your garden fence. You get pissed and demand an apology.

Then Mr B moves in the house beside you and Mr A moves out. Mr B then apologises for damaging your Fence.

You would still be annoyed as it was not Mr B who did it. Mr A has not really aknowledged his mistake at all. Mr B can apologise easily because he really does not care about the issue.

Apologising for stuff you did not do is a little silly in my Book.

Say that Mr. A dies and Mr. A's son still lives in the house and is now paying the mortgage and apologizes to you for the damage his father did to your fence and acknowledges he was wrong to have done it would this still mean nothing to you? Because that is more like what happened.

Zambia

Mr A's son is simply Mr B.

Are your kids or will your kids be responsible for your Mistakes or actions?

Doc

Zambia232 wrote: »

Mr A's son is simply Mr B.

Are your kids or will your kids be responsible for your Mistakes or actions?

No but if they where embarrassed by my actions then they could apologies.

passive

Zambia232 wrote: »

Mr A's son is simply Mr B.

Are your kids or will your kids be responsible for your Mistakes or actions?

"Here, look. I'm sorry my Dad punched you in the face every morning for the last ten years. I just want to say that that wasn't cool, and that I have no intention of punching you in the face. So, to put it another way, even though there's a very clear relationship between me, Mr B, and my father, Mr B, I am going to treat you in a different way than he did, and I disapprove of the way he treated you. I hope this will allow us to make a fresh start and have a good neighbourly relationship, free of punches in the face."

Zambia

Doc wrote: »

No but if they where embarrassed by my actions then they could apologies.

True , it would be a nice gesture.

But that's all it would be. I sound like a heartless f**ker here but it sort of the way I see it. I do believe an Apology is due to these people but it should be from the surviving members of the goverment of the time.

Apology = An expression of regret, roughly a dislike of one's own actions in the past

Zambia

passive wrote: »

"Here, look. I'm sorry my Dad punched you in the face every morning for the last ten years. I just want to say that that wasn't cool, and that I have no intention of punching you in the face. So, to put it another way, even though there's a very clear relationship between me, Mr B, and my father, Mr B, I am going to treat you in a different way than he did, and I disapprove of the way he treated you. I hope this will allow us to make a fresh start and have a good neighbourly relationship, free of punches in the face."

Thanks thats nice of you You are a nice guy I still harbour stuff against your Dad.

Doc

Zambia232 wrote: »

Thanks thats nice of you You are a nice guy I still harbour stuff against your Dad.

Just like the people who are apologized to may still harbor stuff against the people who did things to them in the past but are glad to know that the current generation recognizes what was done to them was wrong and are sorry that it ever happened.

Zambia

Doc wrote: »

Just like the people who are apologized to may still harbor stuff against the people who did things to them in the past but are glad to know that the current generation recognizes what was done to them was wrong and are sorry that it ever happened.

That's not an apology its a statement of opinion. What do you say we agree to disagree here?

Doc

Zambia232 wrote: »

That's not an apology its a statement of opinion. What do you say we agree to disagree here?

Only if you say sorry for arguing with me first

Mr Benevolent

My god the Irish turn racist fast when they become permanent citizens. OP, I take it you've never explored Australian history in any detail? Apologies are the very least that should happen. The Australians destroyed an entire civilisation with little or no emotion. They actually believed the Aboriginies were animals and took away their children, claiming that 'The savages seem to soon forget their children after they are removed.'

Lovely stuff, eh OP? I'd suggest you tone your opinions down when you're speaking to Australians since you are not an Australian citizen. You're still Irish, Keep that in mind.

passive

Doc wrote: »

Only if you say sorry for arguing with me first

*punches Doc in the face*

Zambia

passive wrote: »

*punches Doc in the face*

* Apologises on behalf on Passive

esharknz

Confab wrote: »

My god the Irish turn racist fast when they become permanent citizens. OP, I take it you've never explored Australian history in any detail? Apologies are the very least that should happen. The Australians destroyed an entire civilisation with little or no emotion. They actually believed the Aboriginies were animals and took away their children, claiming that 'The savages seem to soon forget their children after they are removed.'

Lovely stuff, eh OP? I'd suggest you tone your opinions down when you're speaking to Australians since you are not an Australian citizen. You're still Irish, Keep that in mind.

Absolutely, I believe they denied them citizenship too until the 1950s. They were treated like absolute rubbish, and tend to fare very poorly in health, life expectancy still. Good on Kevin Rudd for apologising to them.
Someone had to do it. I'm actually ashamed that it's possible my ancestors played a part in this sort of treatment.

Jagera

"... and for a certain french individual who's slight of hand caused unwarranted grief to millions... I'm sorry"

Zambia

esharknz wrote: »

Absolutely, I believe they denied them citizenship too until the 1950s. They were treated like absolute rubbish, and tend to fare very poorly in health, life expectancy still. Good on Kevin Rudd for apologising to them.
Someone had to do it. I'm actually ashamed that it's possible my ancestors played a part in this sort of treatment.

Kevin Rudd or his goverment did nothing to them. The only reason he apologised is to win votes from people like your good self.

jank

Mahatma coat wrote: »

So St Kevin of Dalby has appologisd to yet another group witha percieved wronging by PREVIOUS generations of Australians

Before you go any further hold on there.

Perceived wrongdoings?

Do you think being raped and abused while in the care of the state is a perceived wrong doing?
Do you think taking land, destroying communities, cleansing the local population of its people which is tantamount to ethnic cleansing today is a perceived wrong doing?
:eek::eek:

Jesus wept with such ignorance.

Mahatma coat

Do you think taking land, destroying communities, cleansing the local population of its people which is tantamount to ethnic cleansing today is a perceived wrong doing?

and did any of those things happen to the people in question???

mickoneill30

Mahatma coat wrote: »

and did any of those things happen to the people in question???

How about their parents and grandparents? Have any of the choices or experiences your parents and grandparents had, affected your life at all? Would you say that could be true of the aboridginies?

Saying sorry for previous wrongdoings will not mean a new flood of compo claims. If stuff happened and compo is warrented then saying sorry won't change that. I know the argument there is that it's admitting guilt. I think that ship has sailed a long time ago.

jank

Mahatma coat wrote: »

and did any of those things happen to the people in question???

Mate you brought up the OTHER group....and nice dodge as well as I wrote about the present group as well. Ignore away as your ignorance is palpable.

moremysterious

Mahatma, go back to your freak show threads on the conspiracy section.

Jumpy

jank wrote: »

Before you go any further hold on there.

Perceived wrongdoings?

Do you think being raped and abused while in the care of the state is a perceived wrong doing?
Do you think taking land, destroying communities, cleansing the local population of its people which is tantamount to ethnic cleansing today is a perceived wrong doing?
:eek::eek:

Jesus wept with such ignorance.

Well done in bombing the living **** out of Northern Ireland. I hear you killed thousands. Oh wait ... it wasnt that bad you say? I dont know what I am talking about you say? But I live here now! That means I know everything.
A guy in the pub told me, no wait, it was the newspapers. They also told me that Brad and Angelina are adopting again. How dare they! It is my right to intrude into things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

jank

Lay off the speed jumpy....

Mr Benevolent

Jumpy wrote: »

Well done in bombing the living **** out of Northern Ireland. I hear you killed thousands. Oh wait ... it wasnt that bad you say? I dont know what I am talking about you say? But I live here now! That means I know everything.
A guy in the pub told me, no wait, it was the newspapers. They also told me that Brad and Angelina are adopting again. How dare they! It is my right to intrude into things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

I think you might've taken that one up wrong.

Jumpy

Confab wrote: »

I think you might've taken that one up wrong.

Not from what I read. I would just like to see if the information jank has is more than what he read in the papers.

Daithio

Jumpy wrote: »

Well done in bombing the living **** out of Northern Ireland. I hear you killed thousands. Oh wait ... it wasnt that bad you say? I dont know what I am talking about you say? But I live here now! That means I know everything.
A guy in the pub told me, no wait, it was the newspapers. They also told me that Brad and Angelina are adopting again. How dare they! It is my right to intrude into things that have absolutely nothing to do with me.

What on earth are you talking about?

Jumpy

Daithio wrote: »

What on earth are you talking about?

I was in a rant about jank quoting press style stuff about aussie atrocities when he is a corkman living in NZ. The exact reason why I dont talk about "the troubles" with Irish people. Because I dont know what I am talking about and would not assume that I ever would.

Plus I had not had my coffee.

jank

Jumpy wrote: »

I was in a rant about jank quoting press style stuff about aussie atrocities when he is a corkman living in NZ

Press style quotes? OK here is your chance to convience me that I am wrong...

Go on...

I am listening, I would be very interested to hear that ANYTHING I have said is proved wrong.

Jumpy wrote: »

The exact reason why I dont talk about "the troubles" with Irish people. Because I dont know what I am talking about and would not assume that I ever would.

I guess this is a fairly common problem with you.

jank

Jumpy wrote: »

Not from what I read. I would just like to see if the information jank has is more than what he read in the papers.

What information do you want to know.

When I read the OP I thought of this interview on today FM by Bill Donohue.
Pure head in the sand stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKLlxAgMO-w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvLPLGHD_OI

m@cc@

jank wrote: »

What information do you want to know.

When I read the OP I thought of this interview on today FM by Bill Donohue.
Pure head in the sand stuff.

This really isn't relevant to the discussion.

jank

Oh but it is.

Jumpy

jank wrote: »

Press style quotes? OK here is your chance to convience me that I am wrong...

Go on...

I am listening, I would be very interested to hear that ANYTHING I have said is proved wrong.



I guess this is a fairly common problem with you.

No way man, you win.

I am just going to sit back and watch now.

jank

Watch what.. Some mystical keyboard warrior is going to rip my argument apart?:rolleyes:

If you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to a thread then don't post, otherwise its just spam and that is something we can all do without.

hussey

so a thread about Kevin Rudd apologising to victims of abuse, has turned into a thread on IRA, aboriginals and a Boardie Vs boardie "I'm right ... no I'm right" arguement that will go around in circles ...