Training for a marathon while weightlifting

jeff lebowski

Hi,

I'm signed up to do a Marathon in April and weights wise, I'm currently doing the stronglifts 5x5 programme.

Can I successfully train for the marathon and keep doing Stronglifts without losing a load of muscle?

aye

I think you'd find it tough to recover properly coming towards the marathon when running 30 + miles per week and doing a strengh program.

If you want to minimise muscle loss you could try do a maintenance program of two not too intense full body days a week if you can manage it.

Don't let that out you off the marathon tho, you can always rebuild any muscle/strength loss that may occur, and its a great achievement.

Realex: Jonathan

this is something i've been wondering too, planning a marathon for next summer. Right now I lift in the morning and then have rugby training or a run most evenings. I know the distances i'll be running will go up but think of all the extra food i'll get to eat to keep up my muscle mass

jeff lebowski

Maybe I could let my lifting taper off into a maintenance porgramme as the marathon trainging intensifies. I'm not running at all as I have an injury but it should be fully recovered in a week I reckon.

Also, I'll need to up my calories to not lose too much weight with all the running.

dario28

jeff lebowski wrote: »

Hi,

I'm signed up to do a Marathon in April and weights wise, I'm currently doing the stronglifts 5x5 programme.

Can I successfully train for the marathon and keep doing Stronglifts without losing a load of muscle?

Yes you can -

I did it for last 2 marathons and did 3:36 while keeping around 12 stone and benching 80-90kgs in 4 sets of 12

Pretty much made sure I kept up the simple sugar intake on the long runs , gels etc making sure to eat like a mutha fukker afterwards, loads of carbs and protein shakes..you may loose a little muscle but nothing major...knew a guy in OZ who was benching 100kgs about 14 stone and doing 3hr marathons so it can be done !

Canis Lupus

dario28 wrote: »

Yes you can -

I did it for last 2 marathons and did 3:36 while keeping around 12 stone and benching 80-90kgs in 4 sets of 12

Pretty much made sure I kept up the simple sugar intake on the long runs , gels etc making sure to eat like a mutha fukker afterwards, loads of carbs and protein shakes..you may loose a little muscle but nothing major...knew a guy in OZ who was benching 100kgs about 14 stone and doing 3hr marathons so it can be done !

How did your squats go. I find even small runs affect my squatting.

The Davestator

I'd disagree with the above - yes its probably possible but having just completed the Dublin Marathon I found that once the mileage got above about 25 miles a week, I couldn't do any lower body weight training.

Time wise its tough too, especially when you're runnning over 3 hours on a Sat / Sun

dario28

Canis Lupus wrote: »

How did your squats go. I find even small runs affect my squatting.

I dropped leg weights with a couple of weeks to go , but kept up the upper body intensity even into the last week , I found spinning and pushing it hard on the hill bits kept my legs strong for the entire training phase

jeff lebowski

I did it for last 2 marathons and did 3:36 while keeping around 12 stone and benching 80-90kgs in 4 sets of 12

What kind of a programme were you on? I am doing stronglifts 5x5 so will only be lifting heavy 3 days a week.

dario28

jeff lebowski wrote: »

What kind of a programme were you on? I am doing stronglifts 5x5 so will only be lifting heavy 3 days a week.

I was doing a 3 day split and 4 sets of 12 increasing weight to failure on final 2 sets

#Mon
Chest & Spin

Tue
Fast run

Wed
Back Triceps /Legs

Thurs
Biceps & light spin

Fri
Long run

Sat
Weights mix of what i felt needed more work

Sun rest

--amadeus--

Weightlifting is a black art to me so I can't fully advise but what I will say is that they have pretty much diametrically opposite goals so you'll probably need to accept that one will be the priority and the other will suffer during the training. Trying to hit both targets could mean under-performing in both.

celestial

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Weightlifting is a black art to me so I can't fully advise but what I will say is that they have pretty much diametrically opposite goals so you'll probably need to accept that one will be the priority and the other will suffer during the training. Trying to hit both targets could mean under-performing in both.

Pretty much sums it up.

Like everything really, it depends. How strong do you want to get? How much muscle do you want to keep? I would imagine that for most people, you're going to want one more than the other (keeping muscle vs running a lot/getting a good time). You can do both though. You could try a split routine - I'd be aiming for light lower body sessions and harder upper body sessions every other week at least. The muscle won't fall off you that way - whereas there's a good chance it will if you are doing pretty much all cardio on a very regular basis for long durations.

token

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Weightlifting is a black art to me so I can't fully advise but what I will say is that they have pretty much diametrically opposite goals so you'll probably need to accept that one will be the priority and the other will suffer during the training. Trying to hit both targets could mean under-performing in both.

Agreed for elite athletes but you can do both pretty well at an amateur level. OP have a read of this site for some idea's if you want to keep strength training and improve your endurance to run a marathon.

http://www.anaerobicendurance.com

I don't run much but from crossfit style training I have fairly decent 5k/10k times. I plan to train like the site recommends above for next years Dublin Marathon. I might shave off 15 minutes with traditional training but I'd rather keep my strength and anaerobic fitness while training for it. Also the time saved on training.

RichJH

I think it depends on what you constitute as losing too much muscle.
What weight/height are you currently at? What time are you aiming for?How many days a week are you training? etc

What marathon are you entering? I've just signed up for the Paris Marathon in April.
Currently 5'9, 69KGs
Weight training 4 day split.
Cardio after weight sessions with a long run on sat/sun

This will change after new years, then 6 weeks before my run I'll lay off the legs and rely soley on compound upper body excercises

--amadeus--

token wrote: »

Agreed for elite athletes but you can do both pretty well at an amateur level. OP have a read of this site for some idea's if you want to keep strength training and improve your endurance to run a marathon.

http://www.anaerobicendurance.com

I don't run much but from crossfit style training I have fairly decent 5k/10k times. I plan to train like the site recommends above for next years Dublin Marathon. I might shave off 15 minutes with traditional training but I'd rather keep my strength and anaerobic fitness while training for it. Also the time saved on training.

I don't have time to list the dozens of reasons why I don't agree with this approach but this:

This program only requires 6-8 hours per week to COMPETE at Ultra/Ironman distances.

from here is flat out ridiculous. Don't you think if this worked the top triathletes & elite runners would be doing this? Do you think that if I could avoid 3 hour runs at weekends and still do marathons I would?

If something sounds too good to be true then it probably is. And no amount of anecdotal "Johnny from Utah ran a 2:30 marathon off nothing but 3 pressups and a handstand" stories will persuade me that several decades of sports science research by medical professionals coupled with the experience of every endurance athlete and coach is wrong and that a $595 2 day certification is right.

celestial

token wrote: »

Agreed for elite athletes but you can do both pretty well at an amateur level. OP have a read of this site for some idea's if you want to keep strength training and improve your endurance to run a marathon.

http://www.anaerobicendurance.com

I don't run much but from crossfit style training I have fairly decent 5k/10k times. I plan to train like the site recommends above for next years Dublin Marathon. I might shave off 15 minutes with traditional training but I'd rather keep my strength and anaerobic fitness while training for it. Also the time saved on training.

Recipe for injury. You can do both - anaerobic and aerobic. You can't replace long runs with anything else.

jeff lebowski

What weight/height are you currently at? What time are you aiming for?How many days a week are you training?

I'm 5'9" and about 81 - 82kg. Currently training 3 days a week on stronglifts and kettlebell stuff on other days as I canty run at the minute with 1 rest day.

I've signed up for the Paris marathon as well. What programme are you following for that? I'd say your approach to the weights sounds about right. I'll have a look at that anaerobicendurance as well.

Technically, if you eat enough and still do a maintenance programme you shouldn't lose too much muscle mass despite lots of cardio, would that be right?

RichJH

jeff lebowski wrote: »

I've signed up for the Paris marathon as well. What programme are you following for that? I'd say your approach to the weights sounds about right. I'll have a look at that anaerobicendurance as well.

Technically, if you eat enough and still do a maintenance programme you shouldn't lose too much muscle mass despite lots of cardio, would that be right?

Sounds like a good programme Jeff. Since you cant run at the moment are you using the cross trainer or swimming to keep up your fitness?

At the moment Im doing my current weights programme coupled with a running programme that I got on Runnersworld.com. At the moment Im following a 6 week programme for a half marathon - dont hink Il be ready for that!!
But come the 1st week in January I'll be following an 18 week marathon training programme.

At that height to weight ratio I do think that you will lose muscle mass due to the sheer amount of miles you'll be running, even with your maintenance programme. It could benefit you as the weight loss may give you a better time.

Keep me posted on how ur getting on.

Oryx

I have little experience of the heavier lifting you guys all do, but last year, I was beginning to do a good bit of work with weights, trying to build up. But I also had a marathon to do. Once I started into the marathon training properly, I noticed it had a knock on effect on strength. Long runs drain your power. I dont think you can effectively do both types of training and still excel at each. Do a lot of one, and the other suffers. I saw it as a kind of training seesaw.

If I were you op, I would do the marathon training by the book, (Halhigdon or similar) so at least that goes well, and maintain your muscle training as a sideline. Trying to do both 100% will really drain you.

token

I prefaced my recommendation by saying that it's not for elite athletes. If the guy wanted absolute 100% performance in the marathon I would not have said anything. I just said that you can get pretty good results while maintaining strength/speed. Which is what the op seems to be looking for.

On my own plan being a receipe for disaster I don't think so personally. I do regular crossfit at the moment which I dunno is less than 5 miles running a month and I ran 5 miles in 37 minutes in a race last summer, not brilliant but okay (I reckon I'm good for 33min now though). Now I know there is a world of difference between that distance and a marathon but if you add in an extra 1xinterval, 1xtime trial, 1x tempo/long run which is something like that site recommends I think I'll do okay. I guess I'll find out next year.

thirtyfoot

token wrote: »

I prefaced my recommendation by saying that it's not for elite athletes. If the guy wanted absolute 100% performance in the marathon I would not have said anything. I just said that you can get pretty good results while maintaining strength/speed. Which is what the op seems to be looking for.

On my own plan being a receipe for disaster I don't think so personally. I do regular crossfit at the moment which I dunno is less than 5 miles running a month and I ran 5 miles in 37 minutes in a race last summer, not brilliant but okay (I reckon I'm good for 33min now though). Now I know there is a world of difference between that distance and a marathon but if you add in an extra 1xinterval, 1xtime trial, 1x tempo/long run which is something like that site recommends I think I'll do okay. I guess I'll find out next year.

37mins for 5m is pretty good alright but as you say yourself there is a huge difference between 5m and 26m. Adding in a few extra session like you suggest won't make up the shortfall. Even those additional sessions you suggest would be maybe something only a half-miler or a miler would do. In running there are huge differences in the training approaches of events that seem close on paper, ie, 400m training vs 800m training are very different, 5miles vs 26 mile training are obviously also different. Its easier to come down than up, a good marathoner will probably be a good 5 miler but a good 5 miler is less likely to be a good marathoner.

metamorphosis

Trying to do both to a high standard is not a good idea. Both will suffer. How do you expect to lift heavy and give it your all when your training program calls for a 3hr run on a sunday? and how do you expect to be able to run 18miles when you feel somewhat drained from training hard in the gym?

Follow a marathon program, lower the gym intensity when you need to. If you are going to do a marathon , why not do it right?

Racing Flat

jeff lebowski wrote: »

Also, I'll need to up my calories to not lose too much weight with all the running.

BUT the lighter you are, the faster you'll run the marathon. So I suppose it depends on whether you simply want to complete the marathon or do as well as you can time-wise.

There's a page on http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/weighteffect.php that shows the relationship between weight and running performance.

Also, IMHO going from no running (although I don't know how long you're not running for) to doing a marathon in 4 months is a big ask. Many people do this as they simply wish to have done a marathon, but it'd be much better for your health and your sanity IMO if people took a year build-up - 6 months to just get running fit and then a 3-4 month marathon specific training programme.

jeff lebowski

Lads all I really want to do is run a good time in the marathon and not end up as skin and bone as a lot of marathon runners look. Proper marathon training plus weights maintenance programme seems to be the answer, bearing in mind my current programme is only 3 days a week.

Oryx

jeff lebowski wrote: »

Lads all I really want to do is run a good time in the marathon and not end up as skin and bone as a lot of marathon runners look. Proper marathon training plus weights maintenance programme seems to be the answer, bearing in mind my current programme is only 3 days a week.

Look around you on marathon day. Unless youre up with the really fast guys, you wont see a load of skinny yokes. Tho you wont see any big muscle guys either!

I took the advice youve been given, back in July. And concentrated on one goal at a time, when before I was trying to be all things and keep it all going, which was impossible. Once youre into the heavier weeks of marathon training, youll see why, anyway. Your body will change, but not as drastically as you might expect. And it will change back again once your training alters afterwards. I think thats part of the fun.

jeff lebowski

Sound, thanks for the advice everyone. My injury seems about 90% better now, no real pain today so hope to stick on the runners again on Monday. In case anyone is interested or doing something similar, I'll post in a while when the trainings been going on for a bit.

Money Shot

--amadeus-- wrote: »

they have pretty much diametrically opposite goals so you'll probably need to accept that one will be the priority and the other will suffer during the training. Trying to hit both targets WILL mean under-performing in both.

I think this is spot on, except I changed the word could for will.

Racing Flat

jeff lebowski wrote: »

Lads all I really want to do is run a good time in the marathon and not end up as skin and bone as a lot of marathon runners look. Proper marathon training plus weights maintenance programme seems to be the answer, bearing in mind my current programme is only 3 days a week.

With 4 months running training you won't lose too much weight anyhow; depending on your starting point of course, but very unlikely you'll end up skin and bone, this would take a lot longer, just like building muscle will take time.

You said all you want is to run a good time; I reiterate the lighter you are, the better time you'll run, so by doing weights to maintain your bodyweight will have a negative impact on your time. But as you know what you want this is probably an acceptable balance for you.

Best of luck with it.

And just be careful that you don't enjoy the marathon so much that you want to do another one, and then another one again and so on... until you will be skin and bone and posting looking for advice on how to lose more wieght to further improve your times .