Palestinians to seek UN endorsement of indepedant state

dlofnep

Palestinian authorities have announced their intent to gain recongition of an independant state from the UN. I can understand the Palestinians lack of faith in Israel pressing forward with the idea.

In theory, a two state solution shouldn't be a problem.. But key issues regarding Israel's illegal occupation of areas (such as East Jeruselem) will provide to be the main issue for Israel not accepting an independant state.

The US will most likely veto any such move. Regardless, I think that this should be pushed forward. Israel were more than content to receive internationa recognition for their state, and should now offer the same to the Palestinian people.

SLUSK

The Palestinian state would collapse rather quickly in a civil war between rival groups I would believe.

What the hell, let them have their own state. Maybe that will stop the whining from those pro nazi jew haters.

Overheal

During his campaign, the Obamessiah was all about a Two State Solution.

http://www.google.com/search?q=obama+two+state+solution&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

dlofnep

SLUSK wrote: »

Maybe that will stop the whining from those pro nazi jew haters.

Rev. BlueJeans

I dearly hope they get it.

Obama has one big card up his sleeve-the amount of US money that flows into Israel each year. That would soften Netanyahu's cough somewhat.

Manic Moran

You know, I don't understand why they haven't tried it before.

That said, should they try and fail, it could be very politically embarassing.

NTM

dlofnep

Israel have stated that they would annex more of the West Bank if the Palestinians push ahead.

ei.sdraob

Overheal wrote: »

During his campaign, the Obamessiah was all about a Two State Solution.

he promised alot of things, but like a real politician i wont hold my breath

OldJay

Its a pity they didn't go for this over 60 years ago. It would have spared much blood.

wes

dlofnep wrote: »

Israel have stated that they would annex more of the West Bank if the Palestinians push ahead.

They have pretty much done this already, except they don't called it annexation.

As for what the PA is trying here, well good luck to them, but I am pretty sure the US will torpedo it.

marcsignal

slightly off topic, but here's another chance to see the Dispatches documentary on the Israel Lobby in the UK that was aired monday night (16th Nov)

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3010424

worth a look

ei.sdraob

hmm was thinking

ask both Israel and Palestine to join the EU

they both can join provided both join at same time

now that would stop the bloodshed, alot more people died in fighting between european states and now theres peace and prosperity

i know its crazy how it sounds but if it stops the killing why not?

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hmm was thinking

ask both Israel and Palestine to join the EU

they both can join provided both join at same time

now that would stop the bloodshed, alot more people died in fighting between european states and now theres peace and prosperity

i know its crazy how it sounds but if it stops the killing why not?

That's not going to resolve the problem. The Palestinians want an independent state. Israel refuses to retreat from illegally occupied territories.

Fratton Fred

I don't see how it is practical when the Palestinian areas are split.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't see how it is practical when the Palestinian areas are split.

Explain why such a concept isn't practical. It seems practical for you when the north of Ireland is involved in the union. It seems practical for the US, with Alaska embedded in Canada.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

Explain why such a concept isn't practical. It seems practical for you when the north of Ireland is involved in the union. It seems practical for the US, with Alaska embedded in Canada.

The UK is completely different, it is part of one territory. Americans visiting Alaska don't have to cross over Canada and if they do, Canada and the US stopped fighting years ago.

Palestine should be an independant state, no doubt about it, but the geography makes it very complicated. I can't see Israel giving up Jerusalem, just as i can't see the Palestinians giving it up either.

i think the only way this is going to work is for something radical to happen, like Jerusalem becoming an international city, controlled by the UN and Gaza going back to Israeli hands and the people of Gaza moving to the West bank. Mad and not well thought out i know, but something big lie this has to happen.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

The UK is completely different, it is part of one territory. Americans visiting Alaska don't have to cross over Canada and if they do, Canada and the US stopped fighting years ago.

http://lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/n.america.jpg

They do infact. See above.

Secondly, just because the two nations are fighting - doesn't mean that they will be eternally in conflict. An independant state would ease relations, which would gradually settle the area. Secondly, Ireland and Britain were are war for years - that didn't stop them partitioning the Island.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Palestine should be an independant state, no doubt about it, but the geography makes it very complicated. I can't see Israel giving up Jerusalem, just as i can't see the Palestinians giving it up either.

Israel must give up East-Jeruselem by demand of international law. There should be no compromise on Israel extending it's territory illegally.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

i think the only way this is going to work is for something radical to happen, like Jerusalem becoming an international city, controlled by the UN and Gaza going back to Israeli hands and the people of Gaza moving to the West bank. Mad and not well thought out i know, but something big lie this has to happen.

Why should the Palestinians make all the compromises?

The Saint

It seems that the EU and US are against a unilateral declaration by the Palestinians. However, it's not hard to see how the Palestinians feel frustrated and impotent in light of such unilateral Israeli plans.

The Israeli interior ministry has approved planning applications for 900 new housing units at a Jewish settlement in East Jerusalem.

Source

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

That's not going to resolve the problem. The Palestinians want an independent state. Israel refuses to retreat from illegally occupied territories.

wouldnt matter much once the whole area is within the EU

sort of disputes over land in N.I. became moot and the true colors got shown

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

http://lib.utexas.edu/maps/united_states/n.america.jpg

They do infact. See above.

I'm aware of the geography, but you see the big blue bit to the west....:)

dlofnep wrote: »

Secondly, just because the two nations are fighting - doesn't mean that they will be eternally in conflict. An independant state would ease relations, which would gradually settle the area. Secondly, Ireland and Britain were are war for years - that didn't stop them partitioning the Island.

when were Britain and Ireland at war?

dlofnep wrote: »

Israel must give up East-Jeruselem by demand of international law. There should be no compromise on Israel extending it's territory illegally.

Why should the Palestinians make all the compromises?

Well both would have to give. Both would have to give up Jerusalem, Palestine would give up Gaza, but the west bank would be enlarged, ergo Israel give up land as well.

Something radical has to happen, because at the moment, we are facing years of the same.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I'm aware of the geography, but you see the big blue bit to the west....:)

Cheeky :P Most common route is through Canada

Fratton Fred wrote: »

when were Britain and Ireland at war?

It all began in 1641, fado fado..

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Well both would have to give. Both would have to give up Jerusalem, Palestine would give up Gaza, but the west bank would be enlarged, ergo Israel give up land as well.

And what about all the Palestinians who live in Gaza? Why should they leave their homeland? You can't just shove an entire population a couple of hundred miles across the way.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Something radical has to happen, because at the moment, we are facing years of the same.

I agree on this, but Israel's illegal occupation is stopping this from happening.

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

wouldnt matter much once the whole area is within the EU

I'm not sure if you understand the concept of the EU. Individual countries are still single entitites.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

sort of disputes over land in N.I. became moot and the true colors got shown

No, they weren't. They still exist.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

And what about all the Palestinians who live in Gaza? Why should they leave their homeland? You can't just shove an entire population a couple of hundred miles across the way.

I said it wasn't well thought out.:)

Israel aren't going to back down, they don't need to because they are the ones with the massive airforce. there needs to be some sort of solution where Israel concede but aren't seen to give in and lose face with the powerful hard liners.

The incursion into Gaza 12 months ago showed that they have little or no regard for international opinion, or civilian life for that matter so negotiation is the only way.

Mahatma coat

hang on a minute, whos feckin suggestin that the be allowed into the EU??

European Union folks, ie a Union for EUROPEAN nations, Israel and Palestine are not European nations, Feck I'm against lettin Turkey in meself, but Feckin Israel, have ye lost the feckin plot completley!!

how about instead of trying to force the Palestinians out of Gaza so thet some Zionists can have nice Beachhouses, lets speed up the Israeli construction projects, but then GIVE the houses to the Palestinians.

thats the only way you will get through to Israel, hit them where it hurts, their wallets

dlofnep

Mahatma coat wrote: »

hang on a minute, whos feckin suggestin that the be allowed into the EU??

European Union folks, ie a Union for EUROPEAN nations, Israel and Palestine are not European nations, Feck I'm against lettin Turkey in meself, but Feckin Israel, have ye lost the feckin plot completley!!

how about instead of trying to force the Palestinians out of Gaza so thet some Zionists can have nice Beachhouses, lets speed up the Israeli construction projects, but then GIVE the houses to the Palestinians.

thats the only way you will get through to Israel, hit them where it hurts, their wallets

Technically, Guyane in southern America is in the EU But yeah, EU membership should in theory be for European countries.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm not sure if you understand the concept of the EU. Individual countries are still single entitites.



No, they weren't. They still exist.

thats the key

in order to join both states must first recognize each other as such and join at same time

make them cooperate and work together on single goal that doesnt involve killing each other

dlofnep wrote: »

Technically, Guyane in southern America is in the EU But yeah, EU membership should in theory be for European countries.

French Guiana is in EU fully as a French prefecture, look closely at euro notes, its there too

its a larger country than Ireland too 83,534 km2 vs 70,273 km2

Mahatma coat wrote: »

hang on a minute, whos feckin suggestin that the be allowed into the EU??
European Union folks, ie a Union for EUROPEAN nations, Israel and Palestine are not European nations, Feck I'm against lettin Turkey in meself, but Feckin Israel, have ye lost the feckin plot completley!!s

im not particularly happy about what they do, but if this stops them killing each other why not?

where does it say that EU is confined to a certain geographic area?

i recommend you open a geography book there are countries outside mainland EU that are in EU, Guiana mentioned above is larger than Ireland for example

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

Technically, Guyane in southern America is in the EU But yeah, EU membership should in theory be for European countries.

You're forgetting this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dana_International as well

eamo127

SLUSK wrote: »

The Palestinian state would collapse rather quickly in a civil war between rival groups I would believe.

What the hell, let them have their own state. Maybe that will stop the whining from those pro nazi jew haters.

Palestine as an entity exists only as a terrorist state, cannon fodder for the arab states (and of course Irelands) psychopathic hatred of Jews. Why else won't the surrounding arab states absorb the so-called palestinian people? Because they make great suicide bombers, especially against women and kids eating in restaurants.

Of course, the UN will support this 100% - any anti-Israel doctrine is automatically supported by the jew-hating UN.

ei.sdraob

eamo127 wrote: »

Palestine as an entity exists only as a terrorist state, cannon fodder for the arab states (and of course Irelands) psychopathic hatred of Jews. Why else won't the surrounding arab states absorb the so-called palestinian people? Because they make great suicide bombers, especially against women and kids eating in restaurants.

Of course, the UN will support this 100% - any anti-Israel doctrine is automatically supported by the jew-hating UN.

unbefockinglivable :rolleyes:


yes a jew hating UN that created Israel in first place :rolleyes:

if anything judgying by how many UN resolutions Israel ignore when it doesnt suit them, they are the ones who have a problem

why not give Palestinians their state? why put a fork into every effort to establish one??

why continue to build colonies and steal resources?


im sorry but im getting rather pissed now

The Saint

eamo127 wrote: »

Palestine as an entity exists only as a terrorist state, cannon fodder for the arab states (and of course Irelands) psychopathic hatred of Jews. Why else won't the surrounding arab states absorb the so-called palestinian people? Because they make great suicide bombers, especially against women and kids eating in restaurants.

Of course, the UN will support this 100% - any anti-Israel doctrine is automatically supported by the jew-hating UN.

You really have absolutely no idea what you're on about, do you? :rolleyes:

Ping Chow Chi

eamo127 wrote: »

Of course, the UN will support this 100% - any anti-Israel doctrine is automatically supported by the jew-hating UN.

Why would granting Palestine state status be anti-jewish ..... it is the stated goal of the two state solution that Israel endorses after all?

dlofnep

eamo127 wrote: »

Palestine as an entity exists only as a terrorist state, cannon fodder for the arab states (and of course Irelands) psychopathic hatred of Jews. Why else won't the surrounding arab states absorb the so-called palestinian people? Because they make great suicide bombers, especially against women and kids eating in restaurants.

Of course, the UN will support this 100% - any anti-Israel doctrine is automatically supported by the jew-hating UN.

Is this boards.ie or foxnews.com? Your lack of understanding of the situation is either humerous or slightly disturbing. I'm not sure which yet.

The UN does not hate Jews. You're going to have to come at this from another angle. If you bother to continue your attempt to label anyone who criticises Israel as Jew haters, you're not going to be taken seriously. That angle is tired and worn out by now by the Zionist lobby.

eamo127

ei.sdraob wrote: »

im sorry but im getting rather pissed now

Good - I'm always glad when a terrorist sympathiser is pissed.

eamo127

dlofnep wrote: »

Is this boards.ie or foxnews.com? Your lack of understanding of the situation is either humerous or slightly disturbing. I'm not sure which yet.

The UN does not hate Jews. You're going to have to come at this from another angle. If you bother to continue your attempt to label anyone who criticises Israel as Jew haters, you're not going to be taken seriously. That angle is tired and worn out by now by the Zionist lobby.

Foxnews, zionist lobby!! No attempt to label anyone there - no sireee.

ei.sdraob

eamo127 wrote: »

Good - I'm always glad when a terrorist sympathiser is pissed.

im a terrorist sympathiser now :rolleyes:

wow just wow

quick call Jack Bauer

eamo127

ei.sdraob wrote: »

im a terrorist sympathiser now

wow just wow

quick call Jack Bauer

Well, if you support the Palistenians in their quest for an independent state, then, by definition you are a terrorist supporter. Just look at that country - murals of grotesque sucide bombers all over the place. Look at their leaders, hamas in the gaza strip, and Abbas in the west bank (the butcher of Munich). They celebrate terrorist acts, their kids are indoctrinated to hate the Jews. To believe otherwise is to be blind to the truth, or a western liberal. I'm sorry that your heros are baby killing terrorists.

Cheers

dlofnep

eamo127 wrote: »

Well, if you support the Palistenians in their quest for an independent state, then, by definition you are a terrorist supporter.

No it doesn't.

eamo127 wrote: »

Just look at that country

Yes, it is divided and under heavy economic blockades. It has lack of basic water supplies and energy. It is routinely being infringed upon by illegal Israeli settlements. Not to mention, it is under routine attack from Israel that has seen 1000's of dead Palestinians, compared to only a handful of dead Israelis.

eamo127 wrote: »

I'm sorry that your heros are baby killing terrorists.

3 Israeli civilians died during the Gaza war. Over 900 Palestinian civilians died. 313 of which were children.

What was that you were saying about baby killing terrorists?

Lab_Mouse

Eamo you dont make a very good troll

eamo127

Lab_Mouse wrote: »

Eamo you dont make a very good troll

Doesn't matter - It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel. The anti-Israel fanatics will stop at nothing to silence their critics. Maybe if I replace my references to Palestinian 'terrorists' to 'freedom fighters', I'd probably be welcome to post here.:D

bobbyjoe

eamo127 wrote: »

Doesn't matter - It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel. The anti-Israel fanatics will stop at nothing to silence their critics. Maybe if I replace my references to Palestinian 'terrorists' to 'freedom fighters', I'd probably be welcome to post here.:D

Are you being sarcastic or for real? Can't tell

Lab_Mouse

eamo127 wrote: »

Doesn't matter - It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel. The anti-Israel fanatics will stop at nothing to silence their critics. Maybe if I replace my references to Palestinian 'terrorists' to 'freedom fighters', I'd probably be welcome to post here.:D

You will find trolling aint welcome in many forums no matter where they are based.

Lab_Mouse

bobbyjoe wrote: »

Are you being sarcastic or for real? Can't tell

Hard to tell with trolls tbh,probably couldnt give a **** about either side

meditraitor

eamo127 wrote: »

Doesn't matter - It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel. The anti-Israel fanatics will stop at nothing to silence their critics.

Irish, English, US, Spannish, German etc etc etc forum will all treat you the same way. Your posts would be very welcome in the Giyus (no different to stormfront) forums..... of ye go little man

dlofnep

eamo127 wrote: »

Doesn't matter - It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel. The anti-Israel fanatics will stop at nothing to silence their critics. Maybe if I replace my references to Palestinian 'terrorists' to 'freedom fighters', I'd probably be welcome to post here.:D

You're more than welcome to give pro-Israeli posts, but you haven't backed up one iota of what you've said. You've just posted hateful, unfounded comments, and labeled people who support Palestine as Jew-haters. That fact that you are on an Irish forum, has no bearing on any moderation decisions made on here. You weren't infracted for your views on Israel. You were infracted for trolling.

When you're ready to grow up, and discuss the topic on a more mature manner, instead of paragraphs if inaccuracies and hyperbole, I'll be more than happy to discuss it with you.

I see you've overlooked my comment on 900+ Palestinian civilians (313 of which were Palestinian children) dieing in the same time span that 3 Israeli civilians died, but yet - you have the audacity to call the Palestinians baby killing terrorists.

Nice try.

ei.sdraob

Going around calling people "terrorist sympathizers" wont win you many friends on this site or any other

Ironically i can say same about you since as we seen last year Israel's war of terror in Gaza is nothing short of terrorism since its main aim was to terrorize people, whose the sympathizer now

bonkey

eamo127 wrote: »

It doesn't surprise that an Irish forum would give me an infraction for speaking up for Israel.

If you feel that your political beliefs give you the right to insult other posters, you're on the wrong forum.

As you'll have seen from the infraction you were given, it was not "for speaking up for Israel", but rather for "insulting other Member(s)".

...

To the people who tried to explain things to you / accused you of trolling...enough of the back-seat modding, thanks lads.

Overheal

eamo127 wrote: »

Well, if you support the Palistenians in their quest for an independent state, then, by definition you are a terrorist supporter.

Thats a bit of a leap. The Palestinians have every right to seek sovereignty, just as Tibet or Taiwan does. Thats like me calling the War on Terror haters Terrorist Lovers. They arent. They just dont think thats the way to go about fighting Terror.

That doesnt mean they have the right to claim it through terrorism. I dont think anyone here supports the conflict. If Palestine wants to pursue it diplomatically by seeking UN Endorsement, then more power to them. Better than the bloodied alternative.

dlofnep

Overheal wrote: »

That doesnt mean they have the right to claim it through terrorism. I dont think anyone here supports the conflict. If Palestine wants to pursue it diplomatically by seeking UN Endorsement, then more power to them. Better than the bloodied alternative.

Pretty much nail on the head.

Nodin

Overheal wrote: »

That doesnt mean they have the right to claim it through terrorism. I dont think anyone here supports the conflict. If Palestine wants to pursue it diplomatically by seeking UN Endorsement, then more power to them. Better than the bloodied alternative.

They're vetoed at the UN, they receive nothing but lip service from the EU. I don't see where they have a choice.

dlofnep

Nodin wrote: »

They're vetoed at the UN, they receive nothing but lip service from the EU. I don't see where they have a choice.

Another fair point. It's a lose-lose situation at the moment. The EU won't support them, and Israel continues to land-grab. The clock is ticking and a resolution is needed, soon.

Overheal

dlofnep wrote: »

Another fair point. It's a lose-lose situation at the moment. The EU won't support them, and Israel continues to land-grab. The clock is ticking and a resolution is needed, soon.

All I can say to that is get the US veto to step down. The only way to do that, is abide by the Negroponte Doctrine. The sooner that is done the sooner we can reach a solution.



...If there is one.