Strike, November 24th

celticutd87

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1113/education.html
Will the library still be open?

alpha2zulu

I guess it depends on where they plonk the picket. presumably they will aim for max impact by having it at the gates rather than accomadate students by having it at the main doors of the college instead.

Intersting thread on this topic running in the TCD thread, makes interesting reading....

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055731284

Sully

Shall be looking into this tommrow - I think every public servant is on strike so that includes library staff, porters, etc. Basically its going to be like Christmas Day. Shame they picked a date so close to the exams for this.

holla!

Granted the lecturers are providing a valuable public service but some of them are earning upwards of €95000 per year. They complain about the lack of funding for courses while they are some of the highest paid public servants in the country. A lot of them have it fairly handy as well! I think it's unbelieveably greedy of them to strike. They should be considering how much of a pay cut they are willing to take!

sparkling sea

holla! wrote: »

Granted the lecturers are providing a valuable public service but some of them are earning upwards of €95000 per year. They complain about the lack of funding for courses while they are some of the highest paid public servants in the country. A lot of them have it fairly handy as well! I think it's unbelieveably greedy of them to strike. They should be considering how much of a pay cut they are willing to take!

Although there are many lecturers who do what they are paid for and so they should, there are some who do not.

As a mature student who works full time and pays tax at the top rate, I informed one of my lecturers that I was not happy with the fact that he often turned up for lectures late and sometimes didn't bother to turn up at all. Further if he worked in the private sector he would be held accountable for his conduct. I was informed that only the Minister for Education could sack him, so bad luck.

In my opinion if lecturers are earning upwards of €95000, they shouldm at least have to attend lecture training courses because there is also a problem with some lecturers ability to transmit information to students. No matter what they are difinitely not worth that amount, especially when they have to give out exam questions to allow for a decent pass rate in their classes.

Its mean of them to strike but hey they might even give an exam answer layout as well as the questions for Christmas exams this year.

shapez

celticutd87 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1113/education.html
Will the library still be open?

Hard to say, as the vast majority of staff are on strike that day it is unlikely all building will be opened. There is talk of just the main campus building been opened. The only consolation or suggestion I can give you is to try the library on Paddy Brownes Rd. beside St. Pauls. But, if it's a public/governemt library, it could be closed also. :rolleyes:

Sparkles:)

someone asked out course tutor that and got laced into for even suggesting that we might cross the picket...

Sully

Sparkles:) wrote: »

someone asked out course tutor that and got laced into for even suggesting that we might cross the picket...

Can't say id recommend it either, for different reasons! Anybody we mentioned it to had little to say about it, just one who made the point while that lecturer can take it, its not fair the private sector is not being hit by the government and there targeting the public sector workers only. Also printed out not all lecturers will be part of the union that voted for it and they will be required to attend college.

west101

Sully wrote: »

Can't say id recommend it either, for different reasons! Anybody we mentioned it to had little to say about it, just one who made the point while that lecturer can take it, its not fair the private sector is not being hit by the government and there targeting the public sector workers only. Also printed out not all lecturers will be part of the union that voted for it and they will be required to attend college.

One of our lecturers will attend class next tuesday as long as the said lectuerer doesnt have to pass a picket

alpha2zulu

Sully wrote: »

Can't say id recommend it either, for different reasons!.

Agreed, no point making a name for yourself. Even in class, without knowing who the shop stewards are I'd be careful about putting the boot into their campaign because you just dont know whos wearing a hammer and sickle shirt under their jumpers! I'd just study at home at watch their campaign blow up in their face in the media next Tuesday. Is it worth the very very very slim chance of an overly critical eye being cast on your exam script come January...no.

its not fair the private sector is not being hit by the government and there targeting the public sector workers only

I'm sure though if everybody in the private sector was working for the state, they would be targeted too. Even with the 7.5% pension levy,(in a economy with 6.6% deflation) so many private sector workers would give their first born for such a well renumerated lecturer position where bar being convicted of anything on the job, ya have a job for life with a big cushy pension at the end. Anyway its not as if they are striking for better facilities,courses falling apart because of lack of equipment,more special needs access to 3rd level education etc, its pure money.

Maxtor

hopefully it will only run till 5 or 6, then most things will prob be back to normal, i wouldn't pass the picket, sure its only 1 day...

Sully

Maxtor wrote: »

hopefully it will only run till 5 or 6, then most things will prob be back to normal, i wouldn't pass the picket, sure its only 1 day...

May have a second on our hands if they don't get their way!

shapez

Maxtor wrote: »

hopefully it will only run till 5 or 6, then most things will prob be back to normal, i wouldn't pass the picket, sure its only 1 day...

It's literally a full day. As in from 12 midnight Monday to 12 midnight Tuesday. I would doubt anything would be open in the evening.

littletiger

holla! wrote: »

Granted the lecturers are providing a valuable public service but some of them are earning upwards of €95000 per year. They complain about the lack of funding for courses while they are some of the highest paid public servants in the country. A lot of them have it fairly handy as well! I think it's unbelieveably greedy of them to strike. They should be considering how much of a pay cut they are willing to take!

where did you find out that they earn 95k/year?

stick-dan

AdMMM wrote: »

If you have a lecturer who spent the weekend in Cockermouth or Cork then perhaps you'll have a class or two cancelled, otherwise it's business as usual.

As for Tuesday, the Institute itself will be open but there'll be severe disruptions to classes.

I've heard (can't back it up, just conversation between us and lecturer in class) that the college will close except for the main building. It was also said that there was no classes tuesday and that classes missed by order of the union are not allowed to be made up at a later date. I wont be crossing the picket anyway, out of curiousity who will?

purplestain

Severe disruptions? The college is closed due to the public sector strike that will be taking place. I'd urge students to support the lecturers by not crossing the picket line.

Clano

stick-dan wrote: »

I wont be crossing the picket anyway, out of curiousity who will?

I definetly will!
as a fourth year with only 2 weeks left i dont av time to waste because of this

purplestain

I'm in 4th year too, its only one day, you can do work at home anyway. These people are losing their jobs, some of whom are very good at what they do. I completely support them and shall not be going near the college on Tuesday.

holla!

littletiger wrote: »

where did you find out that they earn 95k/year?

It was some career website I think, don't exactly remember. €95000 would be at the highest end of the scale in all fairness, possibly for heads of departments/schools, course leaders etc. and it also depends on their length of service. Secondary school teachers aren't far behind them either! Some of them are on over €65000 and they can get extra for correcting exams (€3 per paper), locker duty (€2000 p.a.), supervision (€50 per/hr) etc. I would be sympathetic to their strike if it was for a just cause, rather than money-grabbing!

purplestain

holla! wrote: »

It was some career website I think, don't exactly remember. €95000 would be at the highest end of the scale in all fairness, possibly for heads of departments/schools, course leaders etc. and it also depends on their length of service. Secondary school teachers aren't far behind them either! Some of them are on over €65000 and they can get extra for correcting exams (€3 per paper), locker duty (€2000 p.a.), supervision (€50 per/hr) etc. I would be sympathetic to their strike if it was for a just cause, rather than money-grabbing!

They have to strike. If they don't they'll be booted out of their union.

MitchKoobski

the college is open tomorrow. UCC lectures are cancelled for the next week, but as far as i know thats the only college effected.

west101

stick-dan wrote: »

by order of the union are not allowed to be made up at a later date.

wonder will we get a refund on fees for the day of missed lectures

MitchKoobski

west101 wrote: »

wonder will we get a refund on fees for the day of missed lectures

i could do with that €2 :P

therokerroar

Is the strike actually on this Tuesday now?

Taoiseach Brian Cowen has expressed gratitude to members of the public service who have indicated they will not take part in strike action on Tuesday in the aftermath of flooding.


Mr Cowen said there would be stoppages next Tuesday but in areas affected by the emergency situation people were working well together.


“It appears to me there will be stoppages next Tuesday but in areas affected by this emergency situation let it be said that everyone’s working might and main to resolve the situation. Everyone’s trying to help their neighbour. Everyone’s trying to deal with what’s a very difficult situation for many thousands of people,” he said.


"It has always been envisaged that emergency cover is being provided. Clearly where there are emergencies arising not only is it being provided, it’s being augmented," he said.


“Everyone is putting their hands to the effort. There’s absolutely no question but the total commitment by all concerned, those in the public service those in the emergency services, volunteers, local communities themselves."

alpha2zulu

These people are losing their jobs, some of whom are very good at what they do. I completely support them

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story now.....

Who said anything about lecturers loseing their jobs. This strike is all about pay cuts/money in their wallet. If you have seen any independent observer saying WIT Lecturer jobs are going to be cut, please post a link because that would be news to all of us.

purplestain

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story now.....

Who said anything about lecturers loseing theri jobs. This strike is all about pay cuts/money in their wallet. If you have seen any independent observer saying WIT Lecturer jobs are going to be cut, please post a link because that would be news to all of us.

I'm a class rep and was told by a lecturer at our course board meeting that he/she will be losing his/her job. I am not going to give the lecturers name as it is obviously a private issue and a devestating thing to happen to someone who happens to be very good at their job.

Of course there are going to be jobs cut, they are reducing funding and simply cannot afford to pay everyone as it is. Simple logic.

Clano

purplestain wrote: »

I'm a class rep and was told by a lecturer at our course board meeting that he/she will be losing his/her job. I am not going to give the lecturers name as it is obviously a private issue and a devestating thing to happen to someone who happens to be very good at their job.

Of course there are going to be jobs cut, they are reducing funding and simply cannot afford to pay everyone as it is. Simple logic.

I hate to be harsh but the private sector has been taking the hit all the time so far even locally (waterford crystal, teva, bausch and lomb etc) no body is immune to this not even the public sector i wouldnt be striking over pay cuts if i was lucky enough to have a job. The public sector needs to be brought back into line too. Now i aggree that lecturers shouldnt lose their jobs but maybe if we didn't have such high ranking "presidents" spending so much on his office we could sustain our lecturers

homolumo

strike goes ahead only those involved in working with flooding problems in have deferred. All of WIT will be closed for the full day so if any of us turn up we will have no where to go and will have to pass a picket to park. Lecturers are well paid alll right but are in comparison to the rest of the professional classes are poorly paid i.e. lawyers, doctors, consultants etc. I would have a bigger issue with consultants pulling in nearly a quarter of a mill.

homolumo

purplestain wrote: »

I'm a class rep and was told by a lecturer at our course board meeting that he/she will be losing his/her job. I am not going to give the lecturers name as it is obviously a private issue and a devestating thing to happen to someone who happens to be very good at their job.

Of course there are going to be jobs cut, they are reducing funding and simply cannot afford to pay everyone as it is. Simple logic.

As far as I know many part time lecturers have not been rehired and people who have retired have not been replaced. This year it is another pay cut on top of lasts years pension levy with another pay cut and redunancies mooted for next year. On that basis I can understand the lecturers need to make a stand, I would esp if AIB can get a 3 % increase.

Sully

purplestain wrote: »

I'm in 4th year too, its only one day, you can do work at home anyway. These people are losing their jobs, some of whom are very good at what they do. I completely support them and shall not be going near the college on Tuesday.

As a fourth year student, who finds it harder to study at home, I would cross the line but christ only knows what would happen exam wise. Its a few weeks before our exams, the strike means that lecturers can not re-arrange classes etc. the Unions wont let them. Its also not fair on those who are not part of any union who are forced to go a day without pay (or face the anger of the protesters if they cross)

I understand where they are coming from, partly, but its not fair on the rest of us. Striking is utterly pointless. They are not striking for fairness, they are striking because they want to keep as much money as they can and face no more cuts. Plenty of them can afford it also. Cuts have effected all of us - this is not the time for having a go but instead its time to sort out our country and get it back on the way it should be. Striking is doing more harm then good.

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story now.....

Who said anything about lecturers loseing their jobs. This strike is all about pay cuts/money in their wallet. If you have seen any independent observer saying WIT Lecturer jobs are going to be cut, please post a link because that would be news to all of us.

Agreed. Its nothing about job losses or lack of funding for students. Its only about themselves and the nice wage packet they get.

Sully

Mod Note:

Moved posts on Strike (from the thread on flooding) into this topic.

piggyears

I'm sure though if everybody in the private sector was working for the state, they would be targeted too. Even with the 7.5% pension levy,(in a economy with 6.6% deflation) so many private sector workers would give their first born for such a well renumerated lecturer position where bar being convicted of anything on the job, ya have a job for life with a big cushy pension at the end. Anyway its not as if they are striking for better facilities,courses falling apart because of lack of equipment,more special needs access to 3rd level education etc, its pure money.

Firstly, the majority of new lecturers do not have "job for life with a big cushy pension at the end" the majority of us are on renewable contracts and are almost on valium at the end of each semester hoping that we have classes to go back to. This is also the position for the first five years of our lives as lecturers. I should know because I am one of those lecturers on the picket lines tomorrow.

Part of the reason of the strike is "for better facilities,courses falling apart because of lack of equipment,more special needs access to 3rd level education etc" we are sick of the way that things are being cut to the bone not just being unfairly targetted for cut backs. These cut backs will affect your future. Do you want to be in college with 100+ in a massive class and maybe no lecturer in front of you?

To be honest I am glad that you are having the debate....and to each their own view point but you really should get the full idea of the facts.

piggyears

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Dont let the facts get in the way of a good story now.....

Who said anything about lecturers loseing their jobs. This strike is all about pay cuts/money in their wallet. If you have seen any independent observer saying WIT Lecturer jobs are going to be cut, please post a link because that would be news to all of us.

Doesnt tend to make the news....the people who are going on fixed term contracts and contract renewals dont make the headlines

Sully

The Tourism and Leisure building will be open during the strike. Teachers will be asked their name, but students should not be interfered with or stopped. Ill need to check with the Students Union about their policy on crossing a picket, for those who are members.

alpha2zulu

piggyears wrote: »

These cut backs will affect your future. Do you want to be in college with 100+ in a massive class and maybe no lecturer in front of you?

.

Well in most 3rd level institutions there are plenty of lectures delivered in that manner with circa 100 students. Aslong as the notes are correctly presented by the lecturer what difference should it make if there is 5 or 50 in the class. Thats not just my opinion, thats what 2 of our lecturers have mentioned recently. Its just a result of increased productivity. Why should students have to pay over the odds registration fees for the sake of all the excess that is in not just the WIT system but the entire 3rd level sector right now.

I am one of those lecturers on the picket lines tomorrow

And are you one of the lecturers calling for and pressureing your peers into "making no increased resources available to students because of the strike" ??(aka not rescheduleing classes) ref: 2 lecturers at the gallery door area last week...



By the way, what on earth was going on with the campus services catering today. Dome, oskars and downstairs gallery all closed with posters saying reopening Wednesday. Total joke and really shows the perils of having all catering done in house.

homolumo

as far as I know Campus Services are not in house. I am guessing but the reason they will close is that they know it is pointless in opening as they will do no business.

I would seriously advise people not to pass the picket tomorrow, where are people going to go, hang around the T + L building with senior
management. It is one day people, stay at home it ain't goin to be detrimental to our education.

alpha2zulu

homolumo wrote: »

I am guessing but the reason they will close is that they know it is pointless in opening as they will do no business.

But the places I mentioned were all closed today...so what fun and games are going on behind the scenes there.

Mr Goon

sparkling sea wrote: »

In my opinion if lecturers are earning upwards of €95000, they shouldm at least have to attend lecture training courses because there is also a problem with some lecturers ability to transmit information to students.

Can I have one of those jobs???? I'm a lecturer with a number of years experience and it would take me 2 full years to earn that!! You can see my payslip if you like!

I don't regard myself as 'underpaid' but if you are going to bash us, at least do it with the facts. I can understand both sides of the argument (even though I am striking tomorrow) but sweeping generalisations like this don't help your argument.

homolumo

alpha2zulu wrote: »

But the places I mentioned were all closed today...so what fun and games are going on behind the scenes there.

unless they suspected that people would take an xtra long weekend or would it mean some of the Campus Services staff could claim social welfare if they were off two days.?? Take it for granted tis a financial reason...

piggyears

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Why should students have to pay over the odds registration fees for the sake of all the excess that is in not just the WIT system but the entire 3rd level sector right now.

That registration fee amount is set by the government. Therefore in WIT you are actually getting good value for money. But do you want the government to bite you again next september with an increase in the registration fee again?

alpha2zulu

piggyears wrote: »

That registration fee amount is set by the government. Therefore in WIT you are actually getting good value for money. But do you want the government to bite you again next september with an increase in the registration fee again?

That registration fee of EUR 1500 is the Governmnet defined maximum which can be charged. It is up to individual colleges to decide if they are to charge at this level or below, as a small number of colleges actually do charge less than the EUR 1500.

Guramoogah

The Tourism & Leisure Building, Cork Road Campus and the ARC Labs Building, West Campus, Carriganore will be open on Tuesday 24th November. Apart from the Student Accomodation Building, Cork Road Campus, no other Institute facility will be available on the day.

Adyx

Can anyone confirm if evening classes will be going ahead Tuesday?

Sully

Adyx wrote: »

Can anyone confirm if evening classes will be going ahead Tuesday?

If you can wait until mid morning, I will try find out but its very unlikely.

Adyx

Sully wrote: »

If you can wait until mid morning, I will try find out but its very unlikely.

Thanks. Supposed to be having a Software Development exam.

homolumo

it is quite simple, WIT is not open, no classes of any sort.

Sully

homolumo wrote: »

it is quite simple, WIT is not open, no classes of any sort.

Considering I am in the T&L building amongst other students - WIT is partly open.

homolumo

Sully wrote: »

Considering I am in the T&L building amongst other students - WIT is partly open.

unbelievable you passed a picket to go spend the day in the T+L building.

Adyx

homolumo wrote: »

unbelievable you passed a picket to go spend the day in the T+L building.

Why is it? If there was any point in me going to my class I'd be there too. I get 6 hours of lectures a week to cover my course which I paid a lot of money for. Why should I (and all the other students of course) lose out?

alpha2zulu

homolumo wrote: »

unbelievable you passed a picket to go spend the day in the T+L building.

Its great to see the plethora of new boards lecturer members making such valuable contributions like that to the WIT forums over the last few days.

The current 4th years are only trying to get a decent result that will give them half a shot at getting a job next year, and if the threatened action continues Thursday week it only serves to show the contempt the lecturers hold for final year students.

Come next September these lecturers will still be in their priveledged positions while half your students will no doubt be out of the country or on the dole.

To quote http://wlrfm.com/tabId/503/itemId/3357/WIT-teachers-defend-strike-action.aspx

Members of the Teachers' Union of Ireland at Waterford Institute of Technology say they are taking strike action tomorrow because they have already endured a pay cut.

A pay cut...a huge disaster in a deflationary economy no doubt...

Sully

homolumo wrote: »

unbelievable you passed a picket to go spend the day in the T+L building.

Yes. I had a lot of work to do, im close to exams and its my final year. So I used the IT Room in the quiet so I could get my work done rather then add more on my work load.

No regrets and no objections from the staff as I passed by. Unlike UCD staff who blocked students and were aggressive towards them.